I Cant Believe It

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heatherbelle said:
According to our school calender for year 2 children (7), we are asked not to take them out of school from Feb until end of May because of SATS.

I think when they are so young, that the testing is done more on an informal basis rather than the formal sats for 11 year olds. So takes place over a longer time scale.

Are there any teachers out there who know more?

What about buying some of those SAT books testing herself yourself, if you want to know how bright she is! Then go on holiday and have a lovely time. Yes the school league tables will be hit as a result of your child not doing the test, and if she is very bright, then this may bring their results down by a percent or 2 if she doesn't attend.

Hi,

I am a primary school teacher and have taught the dreaded Sats @ Yr2. I would like to make a few points. Teachers are continually assessing children. By assessing what they know, or how they have coped with a certain task we are able to inform our planning to meet your childrens needs.

I have been teaching for over 10 yrs and the majority of my time has been in both Yr1 and Yr2. Sats are different in yr 2 than in Yr6, but they are still important.

In Yr 6 the children are given the Sats from a set timetable ( From the government) which means for example on May 8th all yr 6 children in the country will be sitting the same English paper. There are strict guidelines to adhear to.

In Yr2 , in previous years the tests were usually sent out around April and it was upto the school to set its own timetable - the only stipulation was that the results had to be submitted by the beginning of June. This was done so that the children could be assessed in small groups, by the class teacher in their own class. Hopefully making it less stressful. This is why the whole of May is seen as important for Yr2 children. I know that in the classess I taught the children were very familair with the Sats tests and were often oblivious to the fact that they were doing a real test. That was because they had had lots of previous experience of them.

However this year the Sats for Yr2 children have changed somewhat. A lot more focus is now given to Teacher Assessment. Assessments are made from Feb - until end of May. Test papers are used but not to the degree as in previous Years. It is now not so much how a child performs on a particular day, but more an over view over a peroid of time.

This system is so much better for the children. As a teacher I really did not enjoy having to put 6-7yr olds through the old system, but it was what government wanted. :confused3

I hope this makes sense and answers some of your questions. Please feel free to ask anything else if ive not covered something. It is 11pm and I'm tired.

One thing I would say is that if you are considering taking a child out of school in May - discuss this with your childs teacher - if given plenty of notice it is possible to timetable things around your holiday. :scratchin As a teacher I would be fine if given plenty of notice. Planning for summer term normally starts mid march. Difficulites arise if a lot of children want to go on holiday!

Hope this helps!
 
Eve's school/teacher has dealt with assessment for SATs by having weekly tests.

Unfortunately this is what has been upsetting Eve so much.

A test in literacy and mental maths every week has meant that she has been in a continuous state of panic, over whether or not she is doing things right, since Christmas :worried:

Every morning she feels sick and spends time shut in the toilet!
Whilst many of her friends are plodding along obliviously, and couldn't care less, she is making herself ill :sick:

Every child is different.
I remember being worried silly about my own tests, before we went to secondary school at 11, so I guess she's just following in a family trait.
Doesn't prevent me wanting to cry when I see how hard she's making life for herself though :sad:

Regardless we'll plod on and aim for that 10/10 every week that she so desperately wants to acheive :rolleyes:

(yes, I have talked to Eve's teacher and she does try to stop Eve getting too upset but it's in her nature.
As she said to me the other day 'It's so hard not to worry mummy, I do try but I'm not sure how'.
So now we've got her worrying about not being able to not worry.............:scratchin :love: )
 
SATs are a misunderstood tool. Their real value is in gaining a mark in the sand as to where the child is at the point they are done. This includes the formal test results and the teacher generated assessment. Combine this with the other data that is collected over the child's educational lifetime to date and it can be viewed to see how the child is progressing.

By analysing the results of the sample within a year group (cohort) as they progress through the school one can get a rough idea of how the school is doing in it's job of educating the kids. However, this view must be tempered with common sense (since it totally fails to account for other things that may be happening to the kids).

The use of SAT results to produce published league tables is really stupid thing to do. Because the schools are now being measured on these SAT results (that are not absolute values) there is a great temptation to fix the system to optimize the result. In reality all the league table will tell you is how good the cohort doing their SATs is, something a non selective school has little control over.

A far better measure of how well the school is doing is the value added result (given the SAT score for the cohort at KS1 did the group progress as they were expected to and what did they do in KS2 SATs and so on). However,
this measure is still pretty crude, since it fails to take account of any external situation (parental support and so on).

Like most metrics as soon as you start measuring things and then making rewards based on the values obtained the metric becomes meaningless, since the organisation/person will learn how to work the measurement to their advantage.

I'll stop ranting now.

:) Chris.
 

I have to smile, we've managed a good old moan ranging, about SATs in general, holiday prices and weather all in one :)


Rant away :thumbsup2
 
I call this good constructive critisism.

:thumbsup2 Personally I wish I'd posted my SATS concerns on the DIS some 6 months ago, MrsJobba1 has just given me more information than both my local education authority and my sons middle school put together. Very useful indeed, especially to anyone considering going late May/early June next year with the prospect of Yr 6 SATS.
 
We are more fortunate here in Wales in so much as the SATS have now been abolished in primary schools.

However, I have found that some schools still put pupils through tests (especially in Yr 6) using past SATS papers, this seems to conflict badly with one of the stated reasons for abolishing them being the pressure pupils suffered as a result of sitting them.

Camac
 
Around here the primary schools do the SATs in Y2 and Y6 and also the OATs (optional assesment tests) in years 4 and 5 (I think).

I don't think there's a problem with testing itself. It's how it is presented to the kids. The temptation, especially if the results are to be abused [see my rant above], is to put pressure on the kids to do well. In reality the kids should be encouraged to show what they know and can do and what they don't and can't. The tests should be light weight and low touch, confirming the opinion that the teacher should already have.

Each child is an individual following their own path through their education. Not every kid is destined to be a rocket scientist.

As it happens my son, because he goes to a nobby public school[1], has assessment tests every term. They are used to it and they are done without any significant stress and hoo-har. The tests are used for the correct purpose so there's no stress on the teachers to get good results, only the correct ones for the children involved.

:) Chris

[1] Don't get me started on that one.
 
I don't know if this will help but a couple of years ago my friend booked for Florida in May, forgetting about SATs week. This was when it was done all in one week. It was a genuine mistake and she went to see the headmistress about it. Luckily she said my friend's son could do the 'tests' before or after his holiday. She was of the school of thought that a family holiday is very beneficial to young children. So my friend went, the SATs were done and her son never suffered for it.

Perhaps you could speak to the school headteacher and see what they say.

On the otherhand I am quite anti-SATs at the age of seven. The children are constantly assessed in year 2 anyway and I see no benefit of putting young children under any more pressure to achieve. When my eldest DD who is now 10 did the tests it was all done in one week - the teacher hated it and the children were so wired it was not true. When my youngest DD did them last year it was a 'rolling assessment' and the teacher tested the children when she felt they were ready, and not during a set week. This worked better and Emily didn't even know she was being tested. Having said that, she got level 3 in everything, went to the junior school and got retested to be streamed according to her ability, which was lower in numeracy than the SATs results suggested and she was put in a lower group. This being the case why test them in year 2 in the first place? I do believe alot of it is down to statistics and making more paperwork. Even in the playgroup where I work the paperwork for OFSTED and the government is unbelievable and that's before they go to school!

I hope you get this sorted and have a wonderful holiday whenever you go. :)
 
For a long time now teachers have complained about the inconsistency between levels in Yr2 ( key stage one) and key stage 2

For Example: a child might get a level 3 in sats in yr 2 , but in Yr 3 even though the child has made progress, using the OATS (optional Sats) they come out at a 2A.

ARGH !!! :furious:

Why can't us teachers be left by the Government to teach!!!

Sorry for the rant!
 
MrsJobba1 said:
For a long time now teachers have complained about the inconsistency between levels in Yr2 ( key stage one) and key stage 2

For Example: a child might get a level 3 in sats in yr 2 , but in Yr 3 even though the child has made progress, using the OATS (optional Sats) they come out at a 2A.

ARGH !!! :furious:

Why can't us teachers be left by the Government to teach!!!

Sorry for the rant!

Here here!!

Funnily enough Em has just been moved back up into the top group for numeracy so I'm really proud of her for working so hard!
 
angel659 said:
Hi

Sorry I had to rant. My daughters education is very important to me so we dont want to take her out before her sats.

But taking her out of school after the SATs is OK? I wish everyone would realise the importance of school. A child can miss a lot of education in two weeks.
 
If I had to chose between , June , Sept and October.
I would pick June hands down.

I'd never take a child away from school at the begining of a school year.

There is so much to get accustomed to, new teacher, new routines , new friends!

Just my opinion

:goodvibes
 
A couple of years ago my brother was planning his wedding in Florida and asked us along with the rest of the family to go with him. I contacted the school to ask when my DD was due to have her SATs as he was booking his wedding for the beginning of May. The School contacted me to advise at the time of my request they did not know when the SATS would be but nevertheless not to worry because they could probably just do DD's tests when she gets back and it really wouldn't be a problem if she missed a couple (she was only 7yo at the time).

In actual fact the SATS turned out to be whilst we were away but as the teacher was aware that we would be away she was able to do some of the tests before we went a some when we got back.

We now always go end of May beginning of June - over the Whitsun Holiday - but I suppose I only have one more year where I can get away with taking DD out of school she is now 9yo so we are making the most of it :cool1:
 
Is there any reason why you cant go on holiday during the school break?
Surely that would be the best thing if you are concerned about the SATS?
 
Hi

I have twin boys who are at 2 at the moment. Peak time is not an option not only for the heat, attendance but the tour companies over pricing thier flights etc...

I personally dont feel taking my daughter out of school for a couple of weeks is a problem before Sats or in September.

We have changed the dates from this yr in October to May 2007 and now we are having to wait again to go back.

We are going in September so we can celebrate my daughters birthday and she can then swim with the dolphins for her birthday.

Your saying But taking her out of school after the SATs is OK? I wish everyone would realise the importance of school. A child can miss a lot of education in two weeks. is a problem?

At the end of the day people have reasons why they cant go peak time. We cant be judged if we want to take our children out of school for a holiday when they close schools as soon as it starts to snow??? :confused3 So its okay if the school shuts down for a week but we cant take our children away on holiday?? Hmmm doesnt seem fair to me. It shouldnt be one rule for one and another rule for another!
 
Please can we not turn this thread into a "Is it right to take children out of school?" discussion. It has been mostly constructive so far and I would like to see it remain that way.

Let's all respect there are lots of different opinons on this subject :)

Thanks for your attention folks.
 
Are you really comparing the closure of a school due to adverse weather (no heating, children and teachers cannot get there, dangerous conditions etc) with your CHOICE of taking your child out of school for a 'cheaper' holiday? I suppose if it is a way of making you feel better for your daughter missing school then go ahead.
 
I think this one has run its course now.
 
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