I am beyond livid at the teacher

[luvsJack]

If the worse thing that ever happens to one of my kids is a wet willy "assault", I will be forever grateful.

Being "assaulted" by a wet willy one time in a group of kids where everyone is doing it to everyone else and everyone is laughing and having fun is one thing. Giving wet willies to a weaker kid (or what a bully perceives to be a weaker kid) just because you can, or everyone constantly trying to give wet willies to the same kid over and over again, makes a kid feel weak and powerless.

Having raised two boys, I think I know what you are thinking of when you are imagining a group giving the infamous wet willies. When my oldest ds made the baseball team in high school, he went through a "hazing" of sorts. But it was all in good fun, the boys knew it was coming and the team made sure they didn't do anything to anyone that would hurt them or frighten them. In fact, ds had an injured shoulder and one of the bigger players walked around the whole time with his hand on ds's shoulder to protect it. This was all fun and rowdy and everyone had a great time--no problem.

When my younger ds was in 5th-7th grade, he was the victim of a bully. We did everything possible to get it stopped. Went to teachers, principal, even the boy's parents. And, actually I thought it had stopped because ds stopped telling us anythign about it. The boy never actually hurt my son, but he did things like wet willies because he was bigger and he wanted to prove he could overpower ds. Not fun and a big problem.

 

[BuffettFan]

I totally understand what you're saying.
My masters degree is in sociology, so I've spent just a few years studying similiar subjects. And I worked as a jury consultant for several years before becomming a SAHM.

My point is this....
If kids dont learn how to cope with these little conflicts while they're young (and the conflicts are equally little) how are they going to handle themselves later in life? Do you have teenagers? Have any idea of the kind of things teenage girls say to each other? Or the backstabbing that goes on in college dorms, heck even everyday in the workplace. Kids need to learn some conflict management on their own.

I'm not denying that bullting exsists. All I'm saying is that the incident in the original post doesnt fall under the bullying category.

Heres an example....

I have 2 neices. They are 15 and 13. Both have played softball since the time they could walk. They play in tournaments all over the country. They work out 7 days a week, with pitching coaches, and batting coaches. The older one has one of the fastest fastballs in girls softball. Its their passion, and they love it. About a year and a half ago their family relocated, in part to further their softball "careers". Obviously they are tomboys, and both have very "athletic" builds. Well, when they started at their new school, rumors started that they were lesbians. And not just lesbians, incestuous lesbians. They were outcast, notes were left in their lockers, MySpace and Facebook had slanerous stuff written about them everywhere. They were harassed by phone, and text messaging. It was definitely a situation where a person could get pushed to the brink. My sister and brother in law had to get the school involved to get things under control, and things are just now getting "normal" 19 months later.
But they weren't suicidal over it. They both handled theyselves surprisingly well. (Better than their parents did!) Had they been sheltered the way parents on here think things should be....who knows wht would have happened. But they were both used to the playground "nonsense" and didnt let it get to them. And that was real bullying.


Im sorry, but you'll never convince me that a wet willy is a serious physical assault. Nor will you convince me that an ice cube inthe pocket, or a kick me sign is mentally damaging to a child. (If it is, that child has other self image issues whcih can probably be traced back, not to school bullies, but to their home life). I worked in the law field for years, and am the child of a police officer.....and I dont believe that you could get anyone to take your wet willy or ice cube in the pocket complaint seriously. Its just NOT bullying. Its kids playing around....

 

[luvsJack]

It becomes bullying when it takes power away from the person it is being done too.

I will agree that one wet willy does not an assault make; but when it is done over and over again to the same kid or when a bigger kid holds down a smaller kid to do it--it changes definition.

I am so glad that your nieces came through that unscathed. But some kids couldn't do it. Some kids already feel self consious because of their size or their looks or whatever and when they are teased about it things can go from bad to worse. And that does not have to have anything to do with their home life. My son was very small for his age. This bully realized that ds was bothered by this and played on that. His giving ds a wet willy just proved to ds that he was a weakling and too small. We couldn't do anything about ds's size, he grew when he grew. Karate lessons helped to make him feel more empowered but this bully took a lot of that away every time he walked up to ds and held him down by the back of his neck or gave him a wet willy.

The difference is when it is done to humilate someone or when the person feels humilated. Putting ice down someone's pants because its cold is not humilating. Doing it and then saying this person wet themselves is humiliating especially to a 2nd grader.

 

[Erin1700]

I think our thoughts center around the fact that if the ice in the pocket and the pinching arent dealt with now, this "bully" is going to turn into one of the girls that bothered your neice.

In my eyes, a one time "wet willy" is not an assault. But if it was done to a kid who told the person to stop, and the kid continued with the "wet willies", then it is bullying.

Kids playing around is different than kids humiliating someone in front of the class.

 

[Nie0214]

-Incident with Bully + Daughter.
-Daughter Emails Teacher.
-Teacher talks to Bully about the incident without mentioning Daughter.
-Bully tells Mom that Bully got in trouble. The only person who knew about the incident is Daughter.

Logically, I think the kid can deduce that Daughter is the one who told. The teacher doesn't have to say Daughter told me, kids are excellent judges of character especially if they are bullies. Even if the incident involved 3 kids, they'd probably know who told.

 

[Erin1700]

-Incident with Bully + Daughter.
-Daughter Emails Teacher.
-Teacher talks to Bully about the incident without mentioning Daughter.
-Bully tells Mom that Bully got in trouble. The only person who knew about the incident is Daughter.

Logically, I think the kid can deduce that Daughter is the one who told. The teacher doesn't have to say Daughter told me, kids are excellent judges of character especially if they are bullies. Even if the incident involved 3 kids, they'd probably know who told.

Not sure if you saw the updates throughout, but the teacher DID tell the mom and admitted it. The principal said he does not support the teacher at all and he would deal with it.

 

[Nie0214]

Not sure if you saw the updates throughout, but the teacher DID tell the mom and admitted it. The principal said he does not support the teacher at all and he would deal with it.

Ah yeah, I stopped reading after page 2 or 3. Thanks!

In that case, the teacher is just making problems for herself. Nobody will confide in her as time goes on.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Buffet, would you mind scanning in your degree and posting it on here? Because short of that, I simply can't believe somebody with an advanced degree in the psychiatric arts would make statements like you do.

It's too easy for people on discussion boards to throw around the notion that they have an advanced education in order to give their arguments more weight and validity.

If your point is sound, you shouldn't need to throw in your degree to prove yourself.

Your argument should be able to stand on its own.

 

[littleteapot]

Buffet,

How then should a smaller/target child cope with someone sticking a wet finger in their ear or ice in their pants? You seem to imply that the response to "conflict" should be to suck it up and take it..that's life. The OP's child did exactly the right thing!

 

[Wishing on a star]

Buffet could indeed have the degree/position he implies.

But, that means nothing to me.
Nothing to me at all.

That does nothing to make him 'right'.
It does nothing to lend any credence to his argument that it is okay, and even preferable, for children to be able to physically accost other children.

There is obviously no give and take here.

You can't change a closed mind.

Maybe it's time for everybody to just let this go.

 

[Erin1700]

My DD came home from school yesterday and said she *thinks* that she and the bully are the only ones to not bring the teacher a gift for the end of the year. They still go one last day on Monday. DH said we are not spending a dime on the teacher. (again it would be a different story if she accidently let my kids name slip, but we all know it was more than that).
I asked DD if she wanted to bring a gift and she said NO, just that she wondered what the teacher thought.
Would you bring something?
I should add that my DH runs a warehouse for a popular office supply store so throughout the year we have donated quite a bit of supplies.

 

[happygirl]

My DD came home from school yesterday and said she *thinks* that she and the bully are the only ones to not bring the teacher a gift for the end of the year. They still go one last day on Monday. DH said we are not spending a dime on the teacher. (again it would be a different story if she accidently let my kids name slip, but we all know it was more than that).
I asked DD if she wanted to bring a gift and she said NO, just that she wondered what the teacher thought.
Would you bring something?
I should add that my DH runs a warehouse for a popular office supply store so throughout the year we have donated quite a bit of supplies.

I would send the teacher a gift.

 

[agnes!]

I'm of two minds about getting this gossip a gift. On one hand, you don't want your DD to feel excluded (Can you send in something really UGLY? lol), on the other hand this person behaved unprofessionally, really hurt your DD & you'd like to honor your DD's wishes

My DD has had *serious* multi-year issues with a teacher that a parents group was collecting money for a year-end gift. We did not contribute and it felt GREAT.

agnes!
PS - Ummmmmmmm... Riddle me this, Batman. Just HOW did your DD find out who has given or not given a gift?

 

[Carly_Roach]

Whoa! I didnt mean to stir up any trouble !!!

BuffettFan, I'll stand with you because my life experience has taught me the same things. I also agree that an ice cube in a pocket isn't bullying. It only seems like a bigger deal because the adults are making it a bigger deal. The whole "I'm withholding a teacher's gift because I'm mad at you. So there. Suck on that" attitude is an especially nice touch.

I'm going to have to say that I doubt the teacher's going to care that she got 26 gifts of office supplies instead of 28.

I'm also going to hazard a guess that most of the parents in this country who don't post on the DISboards probably wouldn't have snowballed this incident into a seven-day inquisition. There are more important things in life than who said what to whom and I suspect perspective on this issue went out the window several pages ago.

What people don't recognize is that when someone expresses a differing opinion (and let's face it, that's all BuffettFan's post was - a differing opinion) and the group gets together to gang up on that person, question their education, tell them they're a bad coach and a bad parent and infer that they're a worthless human being, it's called...


...wait for it....


bullying.

Fortunately for us, our life experience has taught us that in order to be a victim of bullying, you have to allow others to bully you. Something we never would have learned if our parents had fought all our battles for us. I guess it gives us the courage to stand alone and hold to our values in the face of an angry mob trying to diminish us because of those values.

Which is yet another trait most parents on this thread seem to want their kids to learn.

Ironic, yes?

 

[Wishing on a star]

No, I would not send the teacher a gift.

In my personal experience, my son, (who has a learning disability with some special needs) did not have teachers who were appropriate. And, many teachers were downright adversarial.

My son's situation is another reason that I KNOW that any kind of physical harassment/assult is NEVER okay. NEVER.

It is not okay for adults... and it is not okay to condone it in children. EVER.

The whole argument that kids will never learn how to handle anything in life unless we allow/encourage them to physically assault each other is just a truly sickening thought. And a completely ridiculous argument.

Sure, kids have to handle disagreements, getting along, all the usual yen and yang. But to assume that physical assault and harassment are a part of this is truly troubling.

Most here know that I eventually just pulled my son out of our public school system.

OP, I, in no way, have ever felt 'compelled' to send a teacher a gift.

A gift should should be given willfully and cheerfully....
A gift should never be an obligation.

 

[Wishing on a star]

What people don't recognize is that when someone expresses a differing opinion (and let's face it, that's all BuffettFan's post was - a differing opinion) and the group gets together to gang up on that person, question their education, tell them they're a bad coach and a bad parent and infer that they're a worthless human being, it's called...


...wait for it....


bullying.

Ohhhh good lord!!!!
Expressing and hashing out differing opinions on a chatboard is bullying!!!!

(but, physical assault is okay)

Thanks for the laugh.....

Wow!!!!

 

[Carly_Roach]

To which I'll simply quote you back:

There is obviously no give and take here.

You can't change a closed mind.

Maybe it's time for everybody to just let this go.

I'll hold to my values, you hold to yours. Neither BuffettFan nor I (or anyone else that I can see who held a differing opinion) said we should allow our kids to resort to physical violence to solve their differences. That's an extreme conclusion that you and others have conveniently jumped to in order to prop up your arguments for your values.

Extreme conclusions, derisive laughter and ganging up on those who are different are typically the calling cards of a bully. Sorry. Sad but true.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, Buffet has clearly stated that, under his watch, it is okay for children to 'prank' each other and that he has no problem with a child physically jambing their hands into another child's bodily cavities. This is, in NO way, and unqualified extreme conclusion.

And, If you look at the quotes that you just came back with...

Since when is saying....

"Just let it go..."
"Can't change a mind..."
or "No give and take...'

ever considered as bullying.

But, again, thanks for the laugh!!!!

 

[Erin1700]

I'm of two minds about getting this gossip a gift. On one hand, you don't want your DD to feel excluded (Can you send in something really UGLY? lol), on the other hand this person behaved unprofessionally, really hurt your DD & you'd like to honor your DD's wishes

My DD has had *serious* multi-year issues with a teacher that a parents group was collecting money for a year-end gift. We did not contribute and it felt GREAT.

agnes!
PS - Ummmmmmmm... Riddle me this, Batman. Just HOW did your DD find out who has given or not given a gift?

I asked her how she knew. She said the teacher opened the gifts.

 

[Carly_Roach]

But, again, thanks for the laugh!!!!

You're very welcome. I'm glad I could brighten your day. It is always my hope to "leave 'em laughing" because I like helping people to feel good.

I wish you nothing but the best in your home schooling efforts and hope your son grows up to be a wonderful man.