I am beyond livid at the teacher

[PaulaSB12]

I've read all 5 pages of replies, and i see that the issue has been somewhat resolved.
I just want to throw ini my 2 cents.....

I remember the days when this kind of "drama" seemed huge. When little things like an ice cube in someones pocket was "bullying"....but really in the big scheme of things these are small issues. If the OP hadnt escalated it, it would probably be forgotten already.

My kids are in their teens now...and yes they have their drama. And I remind myslef regularly that these too are small issues. Not quite as small as an ice cube, but still not nearly as big as the kids make them out to be.

Kids are resilliant. Leave them to handle things themselves, and the whole thing will blow over much quicker than you think!

You are aware that some children resolve bullying by comitting suicide? Something that seems to you as very small can have a drip drip effect and after much time of these little attacks something that small can be all it takes to push a child into taking their own life. The old attitude that children will be children is the biggest amount of bull out you would call it assault in an adult but kids are supposed to put up with it.

 

[Erin1700]

You are aware that some children resolve bullying by comitting suicide? Something that seems to you as very small can have a drip drip effect and after much time of these little attacks something that small can be all it takes to push a child into taking their own life. The old attitude that children will be children is the biggest amount of bull out you would call it assault in an adult but kids are supposed to put up with it.

I agree. Unfortunately they also resolve bullying by waiting till they are older and bringing a gun to school.

 

[dismom2]

I strongly believe that this kind of thinking promotes bullies.

Has anyone read "Lord of the Flies"? I think we all know what happens when kids are left to sort things out by themselves.

Why should children be expected to know how to "sort things out" better than adults? I just don't get that thinking at all.

Until society understands that teasing, humiliation and bullying is NOT normal and is NOT a required part of growing up, society will never evolve.

When a child has ice put in her pocket and it melts, making her look like she has peed herself, it's humiliating.

LAUGHING at this humilation shows a lack of empathy, and a lack of empathy has been clearly shown to be the seed of many other bad behaviors, including narcissim, machiavellianism, and sociopathy.

ETA: I just read your other post where you stated that during coaching you allowed children to have their underwear yanked out of their clothing and tripped. And you did nothing? Did you LAUGH at that kid doing it? Where was your empathy? Did you think that child enjoyed that public humiliation? I have some serious issues with coaches promoting this type of behavior. I just had to speak to my daughter's tennis coach-he'd been changing her name to "Itchy Belly" and it was embarrassing her so much she didn't want to go to tennis anymore.

I finally spoke to him and asked him how he'd feel if I called him "short and baldy" every time I wanted to talk to him.

Seriously, people, walk a mile before you do stuff like this!

I totally agree, and it angers me when parents/teachers/coaches try to minimize bad behaviour. It reminds me of the "boy's will be boy's" mentality (even though the OP was talking about girls.) I think it's an irresponsibility of the adults, and a failure to help teach/promote acceptable behaviour to have this attitude. Many times people with this attitude are parents of 'bullies' themselves, and maybe some of these people just won't understand until it happens to them or their child. And, unfortunately, even then, some people just don't care.

Things that humiliate children can really affect them for a long time, and some children have killed themselves after repeatedly being bullied/humiliated/angered/teased/'joked' with...whatever you want to call it. What you think may not be a big deal can be a very big deal to a child.
Coaches, teachers, parents, and anyone in charge should not allow this behaviour to take place.

 

[61292cna]

I'm glad to hear progress is being made! It is great when schools listen right away!! My Dsis spent many years fighting the schools over her boys. Since the older one(9 then, 12 now) was only bullying the younger(8 then) they kept saying well brothers do fight you know, finally when he threatened another student last year they bagan to get involved & we have since found out he is seriously mentally ill( I've mentioned him on another thread), while his mom is trying the best she knows how, I'm sure he is going to harm another or himself really badly someday, & it breaks my heart everytime I think about it!!! Don't get me started on mental health care & some public aid doctors!

 

[BuffettFan]

Whoa! I didnt mean to stir up any trouble !!!

If you go back and read (I think) my initial response I said that I do agree that once there was a physical altercation that it was appropriate for an adult to get involved.

Again I see this over reaction in parents...it was an ice cube in a second graders pocket! Not anything that anyone would commit suicide over! It was a prank between kids..... just that a prank. Comparable to the old "Kick me" signs that were always taped to someones back, back in my days of elementary school.

While my kids were young I spent a grand total of 4 years serving as PTA presidents at their schools. And I heard many stories from school admistrators about parents like this. I remember one where a womans son had been "wet willied" by a girl in his class (This is licking ones finger, and sticking it in someone elses ear) I think it was 3rd grade. Now at the time "wet willies" were a normal thing that probably happened 100 times a day on the playground at recess. But this mother just couldnt let it go, and had conferences with the teacher, principal, the girls parents.... because they insisted it was bullying. Because of all the "hub bub" about it all the other kids starting calling the boy "Willie" (His name is Jacob). Hes starting high school this year, and the kids all still call him Willie. No one would have ever called him that if the incident hadnt been blown out of proportion. Almost 6 years later, and he still hears it every day. My point is sometimes parents "fixing" things just makes things worse.

As far as the sports teams go..... Hello? Did no one here ever partake in good natured joking around when they were young? Tying peoples shoelaces together...wedgies...whoopie cushions...stuff like that? When did we get so politically correct that its no longer ok for kids to do anything that might some how affect someone else fragile self esteem?

 

[DizBelle]

Whoa! I didnt mean to stir up any trouble !!!

If you go back and read (I think) my initial response I said that I do agree that once there was a physical altercation that it was appropriate for an adult to get involved.

Again I see this over reaction in parents...it was an ice cube in a second graders pocket! Not anything that anyone would commit suicide over! It was a prank between kids..... just that a prank. Comparable to the old "Kick me" signs that were always taped to someones back, back in my days of elementary school.

While my kids were young I spent a grand total of 4 years serving as PTA presidents at their schools. And I heard many stories from school admistrators about parents like this. I remember one where a womans son had been "wet willied" by a girl in his class (This is licking ones finger, and sticking it in someone elses ear) I think it was 3rd grade. Now at the time "wet willies" were a normal thing that probably happened 100 times a day on the playground at recess. But this mother just couldnt let it go, and had conferences with the teacher, principal, the girls parents.... because they insisted it was bullying. Because of all the "hub bub" about it all the other kids starting calling the boy "Willie" (His name is Jacob). Hes starting high school this year, and the kids all still call him Willie. No one would have ever called him that if the incident hadnt been blown out of proportion. Almost 6 years later, and he still hears it every day. My point is sometimes parents "fixing" things just makes things worse.

As far as the sports teams go..... Hello? Did no one here ever partake in good natured joking around when they were young? Tying peoples shoelaces together...wedgies...whoopie cushions...stuff like that? When did we get so politically correct that its no longer ok for kids to do anything that might some how affect someone else fragile self esteem?

Ok, so psychological torment is ok as long as there is no physical injury.

A classmate tells your child that they are stupid. They are ugly. They shouldn't be alive. They take your child's lunch and throw it in the trash making your child go hungry. They should kill themselves because they are stupid and ugly and nobody likes them. No one could ever like them. They do this day after day after day. That is ok? After all, they didn't inflict physical injury. So, in your world, this is acceptable behavior?

All I have to say is that I'm glad I'm not your kid.

 

[DizBelle]

Whoa! I didnt mean to stir up any trouble !!!

If you go back and read (I think) my initial response I said that I do agree that once there was a physical altercation that it was appropriate for an adult to get involved.

Again I see this over reaction in parents...it was an ice cube in a second graders pocket! Not anything that anyone would commit suicide over! It was a prank between kids..... just that a prank. Comparable to the old "Kick me" signs that were always taped to someones back, back in my days of elementary school.

While my kids were young I spent a grand total of 4 years serving as PTA presidents at their schools. And I heard many stories from school admistrators about parents like this. I remember one where a womans son had been "wet willied" by a girl in his class (This is licking ones finger, and sticking it in someone elses ear) I think it was 3rd grade. Now at the time "wet willies" were a normal thing that probably happened 100 times a day on the playground at recess. But this mother just couldnt let it go, and had conferences with the teacher, principal, the girls parents.... because they insisted it was bullying. Because of all the "hub bub" about it all the other kids starting calling the boy "Willie" (His name is Jacob). Hes starting high school this year, and the kids all still call him Willie. No one would have ever called him that if the incident hadnt been blown out of proportion. Almost 6 years later, and he still hears it every day. My point is sometimes parents "fixing" things just makes things worse.

As far as the sports teams go..... Hello? Did no one here ever partake in good natured joking around when they were young? Tying peoples shoelaces together...wedgies...whoopie cushions...stuff like that? When did we get so politically correct that its no longer ok for kids to do anything that might some how affect someone else fragile self esteem?

What if the object of the tying shoelaces together was your child? They fell and hit their head and are now in the hospital. All good-natured fun though, right?

Ok, maybe not so extreme. What if they fell on their face and it broke their tooth and now you have to pay hundreds of dollars in dental bills. I suppose you'd be laughing...

 

[pperfectmom]

Buffettfan-I totally see your point and agree with it. I think there is a huge difference between actual "bullying" and teasing. To be honest I haven't even thought in years about how many times I had to hear "I'd rather be dead, than red on the head." From what some of these folks are saying, I should be horribly scarred.

 

[luvsJack]

Buffettfan-I totally see your point and agree with it. I think there is a huge difference between actual "bullying" and teasing. To be honest I haven't even thought in years about how many times I had to hear "I'd rather be dead, than red on the head." From what some of these folks are saying, I should be horribly scarred.

YOU may not be scarred but that does not mean that another person wouldn't be scarred. You can't judge how something effects another person by how it effects you.



Its not about polictal correctnes. Its about respecting other people and treating them right. Pranks and teasing are fine as long as everyone is in on them and everyone is having fun. But sometimes the pranks and teasing are all on the same kid and just make that kid feel worse and worse about him/herself and life in general. Then it stops being funny and innocent.

I spent time working in the school system and I spent time helping the coaches in all the sports my kids played. Harmless pranks CAN hurt feelings and CAN cause self esteem problems for some kids. I saw kids go from being happy go lucky and full of themselves to being withdrawn and thinking they weren't worth anything all because of "harmless teasing and pranks". And none of it had to be physical.

DS was bullied in elementary school. It was verbal and physical. And in my pp I said how he stopped it. Regardless, he still enjoyed the usual locker room/dugout pranks that boys seem to love. BUT, if he noticed the pranks always going after one kid or that someone was getting their feelings hurt, he got the other kids to lay off.

Harmless pranks are not always so harmless.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Whoa! I didnt mean to stir up any trouble !!!

If you go back and read (I think) my initial response I said that I do agree that once there was a physical altercation that it was appropriate for an adult to get involved.

Again I see this over reaction in parents...it was an ice cube in a second graders pocket! Not anything that anyone would commit suicide over! It was a prank between kids..... just that a prank. Comparable to the old "Kick me" signs that were always taped to someones back, back in my days of elementary school.

While my kids were young I spent a grand total of 4 years serving as PTA presidents at their schools. And I heard many stories from school admistrators about parents like this. I remember one where a womans son had been "wet willied" by a girl in his class (This is licking ones finger, and sticking it in someone elses ear) I think it was 3rd grade. Now at the time "wet willies" were a normal thing that probably happened 100 times a day on the playground at recess. But this mother just couldnt let it go, and had conferences with the teacher, principal, the girls parents.... because they insisted it was bullying. Because of all the "hub bub" about it all the other kids starting calling the boy "Willie" (His name is Jacob). Hes starting high school this year, and the kids all still call him Willie. No one would have ever called him that if the incident hadnt been blown out of proportion. Almost 6 years later, and he still hears it every day. My point is sometimes parents "fixing" things just makes things worse.

As far as the sports teams go..... Hello? Did no one here ever partake in good natured joking around when they were young? Tying peoples shoelaces together...wedgies...whoopie cushions...stuff like that? When did we get so politically correct that its no longer ok for kids to do anything that might some how affect someone else fragile self esteem?

Sorry buffet, I can see that you are trying to let us know that your viewpoint is not quite so drastic....

But, jambing a WET finger into another persons face/head/ear/any bodily cavity...

THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

That is a physical exchange...
That is physical.
Many would consider this physical assault.




No wonder the name stuck with this kid (I am tempted to use a four letter word instead of 'kid', but will refrain).
It has nothing to do with that pro-active mother.
It has everything to do with these other kids calling it as they see it.

Because of mother's like the one you are complaining about, views have changed about allowing/encouraging physical assault on our children.
Thank goodness for this mother who was willing to step forward to protect all of these other children who just wanted to play with their friends on the playground, in peace, without being physically assaulted.

I consider that to be a good thing.

There is good reason behind the old golden rule Keep Your Hands To Yourself.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Buffettfan-I totally see your point and agree with it. I think there is a huge difference between actual "bullying" and teasing. To be honest I haven't even thought in years about how many times I had to hear "I'd rather be dead, than red on the head." From what some of these folks are saying, I should be horribly scarred.

There is a huge difference between this kind of 'teaasing' and coercive bullying and physical assault.

HUGE difference.

There is simply no excuse for bullying.

 

[DizBelle]

I wonder if Buffettfan was the one doing the teasing on the playground rather than the one getting teased.....

Of course you don't see any harm in it if you aren't the target. Open your mind a bit and try putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

 

[pperfectmom]

If the worse thing that ever happens to one of my kids is a wet willy "assault", I will be forever grateful.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Your entitled to your opinion that it is perfectly fine for your child to be assaulted and poked and prodded and bullied. Hey, whatever.

But, if that means that you think it is Okay for you to let your son freely assault my son.... I'd be seeing you and your son in juvenile court.

What is wrong with teaching kids to keep their hands to themselves.

 

[jrmasm]

I'd be seeing you and your son in juvenile court.

Over a wet willy?

 

[PaulaSB12]

The bullies at my school started with the verbal stuff and went on to violence in and on the way home from school (got pushed into the road to try and get me run over) my headmaster was the worst ever (made another child sit in school all day after one of the bullies hit him, he had a fractured jaw) the school bullies where the favourites so they where allowed to do what they wanted to and any of their victims became his as well. For example when in an re class I was asked if I believed in heaven and hell I said yes and he told the class how stupid I was. The worst thing he did though was in an interview with him in which his exact words where if I was as stupid as you I would kill myself. Bullying has no place in the school system and while children are killing themselves because of this we must work to stamp it out and not make excuses for it.

 

[mlynn]

This is what happens when you don't stop bulling in it's beginning stages.
http://www.nj.com/south/index.ssf/2008/03/west_deptford_teen_killed_in_a.html

This boy was teased over and over. Then a girl called him and asked him to meet her.Where she was waiting with his bullies.One of the bullies brought a knife and is now dead.The boy who was bulllied has to live with killing that boy. He some how got the knife away from the bully and stabbed him.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Whoa! I didnt mean to stir up any trouble !!!

If you go back and read (I think) my initial response I said that I do agree that once there was a physical altercation that it was appropriate for an adult to get involved.

Again I see this over reaction in parents...it was an ice cube in a second graders pocket! Not anything that anyone would commit suicide over! It was a prank between kids..... just that a prank. Comparable to the old "Kick me" signs that were always taped to someones back, back in my days of elementary school.

While my kids were young I spent a grand total of 4 years serving as PTA presidents at their schools. And I heard many stories from school admistrators about parents like this. I remember one where a womans son had been "wet willied" by a girl in his class (This is licking ones finger, and sticking it in someone elses ear) I think it was 3rd grade. Now at the time "wet willies" were a normal thing that probably happened 100 times a day on the playground at recess. But this mother just couldnt let it go, and had conferences with the teacher, principal, the girls parents.... because they insisted it was bullying. Because of all the "hub bub" about it all the other kids starting calling the boy "Willie" (His name is Jacob). Hes starting high school this year, and the kids all still call him Willie. No one would have ever called him that if the incident hadnt been blown out of proportion. Almost 6 years later, and he still hears it every day. My point is sometimes parents "fixing" things just makes things worse.

As far as the sports teams go..... Hello? Did no one here ever partake in good natured joking around when they were young? Tying peoples shoelaces together...wedgies...whoopie cushions...stuff like that? When did we get so politically correct that its no longer ok for kids to do anything that might some how affect someone else fragile self esteem?

What you (and many people) don't understand is that in the past decade enormous strides have been made in understanding the human psyche and how children's brains develop. We also have a greater understanding of how mental abuse can cause long term negative effects. We've all known for years that physical abuse can leave psychological scars, but only in the past ten years has the field of neuropsychology truly proven that intimidation, teasing, and humiliation can have the same devastating consequences.

You think, well, I was teased, and I came out fine. Think about how much BETTER you would have been if you hadn't had that kid sticking a wet finger in your ear against your will.

And let's talk about wet willies for a second, why don't we? Somebody inserts a body part into your body part without your permission, with the express intent of causing you discomfort. One kid violates another kid's personal space, and adults think it's a joke. Yes, adults don't wet willy each other very often, because it evolves into other permutations, the worst of which is rape. You can protest all you want that wet willies don't lead to rape, but it's the same underlying impetus-the desire to embarrass and humiliate and control (you can't stop me from sticking my finger in your ear).

There have been several books written about neuropsychology, one I'm reading now, "Social Intelligence" talks about the ramications of lack of empathy and the damage it can do.

As to practical jokes, I've never understood the joy people find (Punk'd, anyone), in causing other people stress, embarrassment, shame, anxiety, or fear. And yet we still think this behavior is funny and Ashton Kutcher's making a killing from humiliating celebrities. There has to be a kernel of hate in practical jokes-the *desire* to see that other person hurt.

And less you think I'm some pansy-*** bleeding heart San Francisco liberal, I'm a gun toting, southern conservative married mother who won't hesitate to knock your block off if you mess with me. It has nothing to do with being politically correct, and everything to do with being humanly correct.

I will tell you if you're being an idiot, but I won't ever make you LOOK like an idiot.

 

[Wishing on a star]

andWhat you (and many people) don't understand is that in the past decade enormous strides have been made in understanding the human psyche

And let's talk about wet willies for a second, why don't we? Somebody inserts a body part into your body part without your permission, with the express intent of causing you discomfort. One kid violates another kid's personal space, and adults think it's a joke. Yes, adults don't wet willy each other very often, because it evolves into other permutations, the worst of which is rape. You can protest all you want that wet willies don't lead to rape, but it's the same underlying impetus-the desire to embarrass and humiliate and control (you can't stop me from sticking my finger in your ear).

I agree 100%

How is it EVER okay for one person to jamb one of their body parts into another person's bodily opening. It is simply NOT okay... EVER.
It is a physical assault. No doubt about it in my mind.

The psychological ramifications are the same.
A person who would physically contact (assault) another person is motivated to do this because they are aggressively assaulting, dominating, controlling, etc..... I fully agree with the above poster on this.

And, I am so glad that I gave jrmasm (and others) a good laugh...
But, just because an assault comes with a stupid name (like wet willy) doesn't excuse it. If a so-called wet willy happens to be a bully's current method of choice, it is STILL bullying, and it is still assault. And, if this method was repeatedly being used by a bully to assault my son (as the first poster who mentioned it even said, hey, goes on 100 times a day) You can bet that I would be seeking remedy.

It doesn't have to be gun or a knife to be physical assault.

 

[Wishing on a star]

And lest you think I'm some pansy-*** bleeding heart liberal, I'm a gun toting, southern conservative married mother who won't hesitate to knock your block off if you mess with me. It has nothing to do with being politically correct, and everything to do with being humanly correct.

Same here!!!!!