I am beginning to lose hope...

[goofyernmost]

Very simple the old kiosks almost no lines most of the day. No one deciding which ride do I want to go on. You walked up stuck in your ticket and bam your on your way. Now that's a huge difference!

Unless, of course, when you arrive after all the FP's were dispersed then it didn't really matter how short the line is.
I haven't found that line everyone talks about yet anyway. Then again I'm not in a need to submit myself to the pain of going during high season, so that is perhaps why, but, in the slow season I do not see any difference at all.

On the plus side, I just reserved 9 FP's for three days from the comfort of my chair. Didn't even flex one muscle to do it. I find that to be much easier then the old way. Not to mention the fact that I now know exactly how to space my time and see other things with no running back and forth. I think that is a winner.

 

[Cormoran]

Very simple the old kiosks almost no lines most of the day. No one deciding which ride do I want to go on. You walked up stuck in your ticket and bam your on your way. Now that's a huge difference!

I'd also add: Old kiosks you knew what you were getting . If a particular ride's FP distribution was done for the day, the kiosks were covered. There were also FP distribution signs in all of the parks. You could see what FP was still available and the FP return time. So if the attractions was not available or the FP return time didn't work for you, you didn't have to waste time standing in line.

 

[flicx]

Unless, of course, when you arrive after all the FP's were dispersed then it didn't really matter how short the line is.

Now where is the difference to what is going on now. Odds are the leftover fast passes available after your first three were rides that didn't even have or need fast passes to begin with under the legacy system. Lets not discount the fact that of the three fast passes you start with one or two of them were for rides that never used them under legacy. Really deflates the value of the new system more!

 

[Cormoran]

Unless, of course, when you arrive after all the FP's were dispersed then it didn't really matter how short the line is.
I haven't found that line everyone talks about yet anyway. Then again I'm not in a need to submit myself to the pain of going during high season, so that is perhaps why, but, in the slow season I do not see any difference at all.

On the plus side, I just reserved 9 FP's for three days from the comfort of my chair. Didn't even flex one muscle to do it. I find that to be much easier then the old way. Not to mention the fact that I now know exactly how to space my time and see other things with no running back and forth. I think that is a winner.

Based on your posts, I'm assuming you are traveling alone in a slow season. If this assumption is true, then you really don't need to reserve any FP's ahead of time, except maybe Elsa and Anna.

Also, I never ran around the parks trying to obtain FP's. If a FP was done distributing for the day, I knew there was always tomorrow. Everyday was a new day with everything available. Now, not so much, unless you're a solo traveler who is visiting during a slow time.

 

[goofyernmost]

Based on your posts, I'm assuming you are traveling alone in a slow season. If this assumption is true, then you really don't need to reserve any FP's ahead of time, except maybe Elsa and Anna.

Also, I never ran around the parks trying to obtain FP's. If a FP was done distributing for the day, I knew there was always tomorrow. Everyday was a new day with everything available. Now, not so much, unless you're a solo traveler who is visiting during a slow time.

Hate it if you must, but, I think it's an improvement. One thing you might not know is that I have, since the day it was instituted, despised Fastpass and everything it stands for. However, if we have to have it I prefer it this way.

I'm not sure what going alone has to do with it. Going alone does not make standing in a queue line any more fun. We want to go to the front just like everyone else. Yes, I do go during slow times, but the old fastpass made the busy times even worse because you had to get up at the crack of dawn in order to be assured that you would get a fastpass at all. Oh, well... I guess I will just have to continue to enjoy it for what it is and let it go at that.

 

[MrInfinity]

So that brings us back to where the OP started. If 10% of hard corp Disney fans "hate" FP+, and 39% are only going to like it if changes are in the offing, and the changes that they want are "not going to happen" and "impossible", where will that leave Disney in a year or two? If the 39% don't get what they want, (and I'm not suggesting that you are wrong in concluding that they won't), doesn't that leave WDW with a 50/50 acceptance rate? How does Disney move the 39% over to the "Like" column?

Because you know as well as I do that it's not 50/50. It's 50/50 of the handful of people on a gripe board who are frustrated about not getting what they used to. People who by default were the few guests that got the most out of FP-, and are worse off for having FP+. You ignore that the reason these Dis'ers are worse off is cuz FP+ is now used by many many many guests, it is not even a comparison. That is WHY it is impossible to get 2 FP's. Before sure we could get 5 because 5 guests didn't know they could get any. You have to point to who gets none if you want two. With FP-, it was the guests who did not learn it or bother to use it that got none. For every FP- user that got 10 FPs in a day to desirable rides, 10 other guests got none. Now, that one FP- lover is put out, but the other 9 are better off.

Where will that leave Disney in a year or two?

Just fine.

People keep saying Disney is killing themselves with FP+. But Disney is doing just fine. I just quoted the latest earnings transcript from yesterday. They rocked the theme park attendance yet again for Oct-Dec 2014 compared to the same period 2013. They are just killing it, with not only increased # of guests, but increased guest spending. "The FP+ is going to bankrupt Disney" argument has to die at some point. I've quoted the last 3 or 4 quarters of smash hit results, and every time, ppl say "oh, no, you just need to give it more time, really it is 50/50 split, as clearly evidenced by disboards consensus" and every year Disney kills it more than the last.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

Unless, of course, when you arrive after all the FP's were dispersed then it didn't really matter how short the line is.
I haven't found that line everyone talks about yet anyway. Then again I'm not in a need to submit myself to the pain of going during high season, so that is perhaps why, but, in the slow season I do not see any difference at all.

On the plus side, I just reserved 9 FP's for three days from the comfort of my chair. Didn't even flex one muscle to do it. I find that to be much easier then the old way. Not to mention the fact that I now know exactly how to space my time and see other things with no running back and forth. I think that is a winner.

We were there in the beginning of October and saw lots of lines at the kiosks in MK. Not the absolute slowest time of the year, but definitely below average.

I'd also add: Old kiosks you knew what you were getting . If a particular ride's FP distribution was done for the day, the kiosks were covered. There were also FP distribution signs in all of the parks. You could see what FP was still available and the FP return time. So if the attractions was not available or the FP return time didn't work for you, you didn't have to waste time standing in line.

I also found this frustrating. I waited in line 15 minutes to find out that none of top tier attractions in MK had any passes available. At least with legacy FP, I could use the Disney App to see if FP were still available before walking over to the attraction.

Hate it if you must, but, I think it's an improvement. One thing you might not know is that I have, since the day it was instituted, despised Fastpass and everything it stands for. However, if we have to have it I prefer it this way.

I'm not sure what going alone has to do with it. Going alone does not make standing in a queue line any more fun. We want to go to the front just like everyone else. Yes, I do go during slow times, but the old fastpass made the busy times even worse because you had to get up at the crack of dawn in order to be assured that you would get a fastpass at all. Oh, well... I guess I will just have to continue to enjoy it for what it is and let it go at that.

With this system, the smaller your party size, the easier it is to get the FP you want.

 

[JimmyV]

Because you know as well as I do that it's not 50/50. It's 50/50 of the handful of people on a gripe board who are frustrated about not getting what they used to. People who by default were the few guests that got the most out of FP-, and are worse off for having FP+. You ignore that the reason these Dis'ers are worse off is cuz FP+ is now used by many many many guests, it is not even a comparison. That is WHY it is impossible to get 2 FP's. Before sure we could get 5 because 5 guests didn't know they could get any. You have to point to who gets none if you want two. With FP-, it was the guests who did not learn it or bother to use it that got none. For every FP- user that got 10 FPs in a day to desirable rides, 10 other guests got none. Now, that one FP- lover is put out, but the other 9 are better off.

Where will that leave Disney in a year or two?

Just fine.

People keep saying Disney is killing themselves with FP+. But Disney is doing just fine. I just quoted the latest earnings transcript from yesterday. They rocked the theme park attendance yet again for Oct-Dec 2014 compared to the same period 2013. They are just killing it, with not only increased # of guests, but increased guest spending. "The FP+ is going to bankrupt Disney" argument has to die at some point. I've quoted the last 3 or 4 quarters of smash hit results, and every time, ppl say "oh, no, you just need to give it more time, really it is 50/50 split, as clearly evidenced by disboards consensus" and every year Disney kills it more than the last.

But I don't know that it isn't 50/50. The group polled are predisposed to love anything Disney does. Not the other way around. The "typical" guest that I encountered in kiosk lines couldn't stop complaining about it. And the frustrated eye rolls from the CMs with I-pads betrayed the fact that they were at wits end dealing with angry customers. And I have never tied any of this to revenue. Disney is Teflon in this regard. People will continue to go and pay even if their 2014 visit was less fulfilling than their 2012 visit. As long as their kids are happy they will come. But don't mistake FP+ for an upswing in the economy as the reason for "killing it". You will never find one single person on this planet who has said: "I've resisted going to WDW up until now, but now with the introduction of FP+, I am sold". FP+ may be generating more revenue in the way it was designed to. But you can't tie increased attendance to FP+. It simply isn't a decision driver.

 

[Cormoran]

Hate it if you must, but, I think it's an improvement. One thing you might not know is that I have, since the day it was instituted, despised Fastpass and everything it stands for. However, if we have to have it I prefer it this way.

I'm not sure what going alone has to do with it. Going alone does not make standing in a queue line any more fun. We want to go to the front just like everyone else. Yes, I do go during slow times, but the old fastpass made the busy times even worse because you had to get up at the crack of dawn in order to be assured that you would get a fastpass at all. Oh, well... I guess I will just have to continue to enjoy it for what it is and let it go at that.

 

[flicx]

Because you know as well as I do that it's not 50/50. It's 50/50 of the handful of people on a gripe board who are frustrated about not getting what they used to. People who by default were the few guests that got the most out of FP-, and are worse off for having FP+. You ignore that the reason these Dis'ers are worse off is cuz FP+ is now used by many many many guests, it is not even a comparison. That is WHY it is impossible to get 2 FP's. Before sure we could get 5 because 5 guests didn't know they could get any. You have to point to who gets none if you want two. With FP-, it was the guests who did not learn it or bother to use it that got none. For every FP- user that got 10 FPs in a day to desirable rides, 10 other guests got none. Now, that one FP- lover is put out, but the other 9 are better off.

Where will that leave Disney in a year or two?

Just fine.

People keep saying Disney is killing themselves with FP+. But Disney is doing just fine. I just quoted the latest earnings transcript from yesterday. They rocked the theme park attendance yet again for Oct-Dec 2014 compared to the same period 2013. They are just killing it, with not only increased # of guests, but increased guest spending. "The FP+ is going to bankrupt Disney" argument has to die at some point. I've quoted the last 3 or 4 quarters of smash hit results, and every time, ppl say "oh, no, you just need to give it more time, really it is 50/50 split, as clearly evidenced by disboards consensus" and every year Disney kills it more than the last.

So so many assumptions in your posts that you are trying to push as fact. You act as if people were clueless about legacy, really not so. It was in every park leaflet and planning video. It was a tradable collectors pin too! People knew about it. Unless you chose to ignore it! Disney throwing out satisfaction numbers doesn't say much either when you have a poll with basically no negative answers on it. Attendance numbers improving due to the new fastpass? Now that's a funny one too, it's barely been out. How about the uptick in the economy , that theory may have a little to do with more people through the gates. The people I talk to who aren't on these boards HATE fast pass plus. You have your opinions I have mine.

 

[goofyernmost]

With this system, the smaller your party size, the easier it is to get the FP you want.

Worked that way with the old system as well. If you had 5 people and they only had 3 FP's left you were out of luck then too. Disclaimer... the numbers I just used were made up. I am not sure if it makes any difference if it's for 5 people or 12. It's just that when they are out they are out, be it one or a thousand.

 

[Silock]

at the expense of other guests using it little or not at all.

Is it really at their expense if they're not going to use it, anyway?

 

[MrInfinity]

But I don't know that it isn't 50/50. The group polled are predisposed to love anything Disney does. Not the other way around. The "typical" guest that I encountered in kiosk lines couldn't stop complaining about it. And the frustrated eye rolls from the CMs with I-pads betrayed the fact that they were at wits end dealing with angry customers. And I have never tied any of this to revenue. Disney is Teflon in this regard. People will continue to go and pay even if their 2014 visit was less fulfilling than their 2012 visit. As long as their kids are happy they will come. But don't mistake FP+ for an upswing in the economy as the reason for "killing it". You will never find one single person on this planet who has said: "I've resisted going to WDW up until now, but now with the introduction of FP+, I am sold". FP+ may be generating more revenue in the way it was designed to. But you can't tie increased attendance to FP+. It simply isn't a decision driver.

Well I hate to say it, but whether "you know it isn't 50/50" or not, simply doesn't matter. I know from your posts you get the situation. I actually think pretty highly of your opinions out here.

Your point is right on. Most guests just do not care about FP+. It is just a ride queuing system, it opens doors, it charges food, it books rides. I have compared it to a tool. You use it, it does it's job, you do not come out to the internet to rejoice about how it was miraculous. It is just a tool. It is a better tool than FP- was, even tho ditching FP- ditched a lot of die-hard customers who used to ride 5 times, not caring that 4 other guests would not get to ride. Of course we don't care about that, we care about our own vacations. Well... Disney DOES care about everyone's vacation, and they have made it clear that they are going to put in systems that benefit the masses and maximize profit, not just the individuals who best learn how to game a system.

 

[Cormoran]

You act like it's a great fete getting 9 FP plus reservations. But you're booking for a party of one during a slower time. Not such a tough thing to do.

 

[Cormoran]

Well I hate to say it, but whether "you know it isn't 50/50" or not, simply doesn't matter. I know from your posts you get the situation. I actually think pretty highly of your opinions out here.

Your point is right on. Most guests just do not care about FP+. It is just a ride queuing system, it opens doors, it charges food, it books rides. I have compared it to a tool. You use it, it does it's job, you do not come out to the internet to rejoice about how it was miraculous. It is just a tool. It is a better tool than FP- was, even tho ditching FP- ditched a lot of die-hard customers who used to ride 5 times, not caring that 4 other guests would not get to ride. Of course we don't care about that, we care about our own vacations. Well... Disney DOES care about everyone's vacation, and they have made it clear that they are going to put in systems that benefit the masses and maximize profit, not just the individuals who best learn how to game a system.

 

[MrInfinity]

Is it really at their expense if they're not going to use it, anyway?

Does it matter? Disney believes they will make more money by getting all guests quickly onto 3 rides. Even tho some used to do 12 and others none. Even tho I was one of the few who used FP- well, I am trying to look beyond that in my analysis of FP+ as a system, to nod that yes, I see why Disney does this. It is not to "hose" the one guest who used FP- well, but to get 5 others to be happier, ride a few rides, and get back to swimming, eating and spending. Even tho the 1 hates it and does not swim or spend but spends his day disgruntled on the web. 5 other guests experience were made better, and Disney made more money from the combination of the 6.

 

[Cormoran]

This is total crap. Disney doesn't care about your experience. Disney cares about getting every last nickel out of every guest. They put in MDE as an electronic tool to manage guests. Instead of wearing a tracking collar, guests are wearing tracking wristbands. Disney is using FP plus to staff the parks.

If they really cared about the guest experience, why do they open the FP plus booking window in the middle of the night? They could easily change this policy, but they don't really give a rat's tail!

 

[flicx]

Disney made a system that is no better than the legacy system. They are simply trying to advertise it as something that is wonderful for the customer. They couldn't care less one way or the other, they want to move people like cattle and gather data. If they were so concerned about customer satisfaction they would have built 1.5 to 2 billion dollars worth of attractions. Please don't try to spin this as a lets make it fair system. If it was a lets make it fair system everybody could book 60 days out not a select group!

 

[MrInfinity]

So so many assumptions in your posts that you are trying to push as fact. You act as if people were clueless about legacy, really not so. It was in every park leaflet and planning video. It was a tradable collectors pin too! People knew about it. Unless you chose to ignore it! Disney throwing out satisfaction numbers doesn't say much either when you have a poll with basically no negative answers on it. Attendance numbers improving due to the new fastpass? Now that's a funny one too, it's barely been out. How about the uptick in the economy , that theory may have a little to do with more people through the gates. The people I talk to who aren't on these boards HATE fast pass plus. You have your opinions I have mine.

Flicx, most guest WERE clueless about FP-. That's what made it so sweet for those who used it. Sure it was in the leaflets. So what. If you pulled 5 FP+s to Test Track or Soarin... and those rides handle 30,000 riders... Just HOW MANY guest can pull 5? If 1/2 of the capacity is given to FP-, that's 15,000 ridings. At 5 per guest, that's 3,000 guests pulling 5 each and ~they're gone~. That means the other 37,000 guests could pull 0. zip. zilch.

Now the situation is vastly different. FP+ is there on your phone, you can hardly ~not~ pick yours, Disney practically forces you to. They are prompting you to customize yoru MBs, pick your FPs at every step of the process. So 30,000 guests pull 1 and surprise, surprise there are none left to get seconds.

If you disagree w my math pls post your own numbers. Don't just say you disagree, or that you felt most guests were not clueless about FP-. Cuz they were. That's why it was so great.

If they really cared about the guest experience, why do they open the FP plus booking window in the middle of the night? They could easily change this policy, but they don't really give a rat's tail!

I'm guessing they picked midnight because that is when the day changes to a new day. They could have picked 6am or noon or whatever but I don't see that as being particularly significant. And I don't think the time of day would change your experience, nor is it even really relevant, since ppl can get almost every single ride without having to stay up till midnight. People are reporting getting even SDMT at random times at 60 days, 30 days, and a few days before. So the midnight cutoff doesn't really impact much. I even got A&E on my last trip, and I was not in at 60 days, I was in at like 50 days.

 

[Cormoran]

Flicx, most guest WERE clueless about FP-. That's what made it so sweet for those who used it. Sure it was in the leaflets. So what. If you pulled 5 FP+s to Test Track or Soarin... and those rides handle 30,000 riders... Just HOW MANY guest can pull 5? If 1/2 of the capacity is given to FP-, that's 15,000 ridings. At 5 per guest, that's 3,000 guests pulling 5 each and ~they're gone~. That means the other 37,000 guests could pull 0. zip. zilch.

Now the situation is vastly different. FP+ is there on your phone, you can hardly ~not~ pick yours, Disney practically forces you to. They are prompting you to customize yoru MBs, pick your FPs at every step of the process. So 30,000 guests pull 1 and surprise, surprise there are none left to get seconds.

If you disagree w my math pls post your own numbers. Don't just say you disagree, or that you felt most guests were not clueless about FP-. Cuz they were. That's why it was so great.

There are still a lot of clueless guests. I saw them in line at the kiosks.
Yes, Disney spams you with reminders, but only if you purchase tickets ahead of time and register on MDE. But what about all of the guests who purchase tickets on their arrival day?