How would you feel???

[NHdisneylover]

We must be on the same page today. I posted kind of the same thing. That really bothered me as well.

kristine

yes, I think we were typing at the same time

Yes we did....a while ago, pre spouse. Mom had given me all of her paperwork, life insurance, retirement savings, etc. I, as well as my niece, were to split her estate. Little did I know that once the spouse came into the picture we were both excluded completely from it all. They werent even legally married yet when the Will was changed. She did tell me recently that if they were to die together, then I would get 1/2 of their stuff and spouse's brother would get the other 1/2. Spouse has no children.

I am curious, were they able to be legally married at the time? Sadly, many same sex couple still cannot be and those who can mostly only won the right to do so recently. I know many couples who married within the first month it was legal in NH. In fact a legal civil union (legalized before marriage was) took place at our home at 12:01 am on Jan 1 the very first moment it legally could. That couple had been together a long time before that and were married in every non legal sense and had to do MORE to protect their shared assests (like changing wills to be sure the "spouse" received anything in the other's name) because they could not be married.

 

[lukenick1]

I think a major reason why there is so much conflict in this thread is that there is a difference of perspective as to whether someone should be granted an unrebutted soap-box to vent, in a public discussion forum. I'm not talking about expecting replies to be free of personal attacks -- that is clearly an expectation that everyone has an unequivocal right to, and I doubt anyone in this thread would disagree with that, not one bit. I'm talking about replying to an issue raised, on its own merits, without rancor or intent to harm, but still being open, honest, forth-right, and comprehensive.

As I alluded to, folks -- all of them reasonable -- disagree about this. It is not something that everyone feels the same way about. Those who feel one way will refrain from replying substantively to the issues raised, while those who feel the other way will contribute their perspectives. Neither group is wrong, nor should be held to be wrong, for doing so. Both are reasonable perspectives; both have substantial merit; both decisions should be respected equally.

Again, that doesn't excuse comments that are something other than addressing the issue, such as personal attacks. There is no defense for calling someone a greedy person, for example. Folks who choose to contribute need to understand that there is a difference between calling someone a greedy person (which is wrong) and saying that a perspective is a greedy perspective (which is appropriate). If you feel a certain way about some concept, you should express your comment with regard to the concept, not turn that into a personal attack on the person who expressed or supports that concept.

Unfortunately, we cannot reasonably expect to control the manner in which everyone expresses their perspectives, so as a result I always recommend folks posting online about issues that cut close to their heart to think twice about what you really want. If you want to just put out your feelings and have others read them, then you really want to post that to a blog or your Facebook page or something like that, where you have total control, and can even delete replies you don't like or prevent people you don't want replies from from posting replies. (Facebook is great for this!) I've done this dozens of times over the last couple of years (especially) when I needed to express feelings and didn't want to invite any replies other than supportive ones. It really has been very cathartic at times. I highly recommend it. Once, even, after working through an issue in my own heart, that way, I brought the issue here to the Community Board. At that point, I felt ready to see what other folks thought, and indeed, some of the comments were not in concert with my feelings. That was okay; I knew what I was getting into posting on the DIS Community Board.

A few times in the past we've discussed the idea of having a separate venting forum here on the DIS, where a poster can post things, and replies are precluded. That's a feature available in the vBulletin software. Actually, I've seen a later version of the vBulletin software running on some other forums, and it includes a Blog for each user. That would be great if we could get that here.

Thank you Bicker, Im glad that you acknowledged that I was being personally attacked. I did want to see what others thought about this, and felt that maybe I was being unreasonable, but after much refelection and the views of others I am confident that my feelings are valid. I will not let this affect my life in anyway, nor let it affect my relationship with the spouse. Its just my feeling in my heart. I came to this board to open this topic because I wanted to express my true feelings anonymously. Not create friction with anyone involved. I could have never posted this on Facebook, or any other website that people involved would see it. This is between me and those here that took the time to read and respond. It will never go any further than this. I have not even expressed my feelings to my niece who was also excluded. Thanks for listening

 

[lukenick1]

yes, I think we were typing at the same time


I am curious, were they able to be legally married at the time? Sadly, many same sex couple still cannot be and those who can mostly only won the right to do so recently. I know many couples who married within the first month it was legal in NH. In fact a legal civil union (legalized before marriage was) took place at our home at 12:01 am on Jan 1 the very first moment it legally could. That couple had been together a long time before that and were married in every non legal sense and had to do MORE to protect their shared assests (like changing wills to be sure the "spouse" received anything in the other's name) because they could not be married.

No it was not legal when they first met. Became legal not long after and they jumped right on it.

 

[connorlevismom]

I never said my parents owe me something and I never expected it. I never expected my MOm to die so young and out of no where either. But when I was told by the spouse a few days ago, that I, and my niece (my deceased sister's daughter), were her beneficiaries, It hurts me that as sooon as this spouse came along, we were cut out. We deserved to get some of it!

But you need to see that you ARE saying that they owe you and you expect it. Right in this very post you said you "deserve" it. Deserve, owe, entitled.....those all mean the same thing.

I am pretty much done arguing the point, I am just saying that while you may not recoginse that you feel you are owed something, you do indeed feel that way. It would just be easier on you if you would just admit it, then you could work on those feelings. Instead your trying to deny that you feel that way.

Kristine

 

[NHdisneylover]

Thank you Bicker, Im glad that you acknowledged that I was being personally attacked. I did want to see what others thought about this, and felt that maybe I was being unreasonable, but after much refelection and the views of others I am confident that my feelings are valid. I will not let this affect my life in anyway, nor let it affect my relationship with the spouse. Its just my feeling in my heart. I came to this board to open this topic because I wanted to express my true feelings anonymously. Not create friction with anyone involved. I could have never posted this on Facebook, or any other website that people involved would see it. This is between me and those here that took the time to read and respond. It will never go any further than this. I have not even expressed my feelings to my niece who was also excluded. Thanks for listening

I want to commend you for having the foresight to realize even in the midst of your grief and hurt that this should not be spoken about with others concerned as it would have long lasting repercussions So many people don't think before they speak and end up hurting themselves and others. It is wonderful that you did not do so.
I also REALLY, really hope that when your step mother told you that you and your niece had previously been your mother's beneficiaries it was in the spirit of letting you know that your mother DID care, or simply informing you and not said in any kind of a mean spirited way. It is impossible to tell from what you wrote--but I sincerely hope your step mother is in no way gloating over her "windfall" and is just as sad as you are at the loss of your mother and trying to help you through it (and you her). It sounds like this is the kind of relationship you have, which is one little silver lining in all the hurt and grief right now.

No it was not legal when they first met. Became legal not long after and they jumped right on it.

Then, personally, I think the fact that they weren't even married at the time either does not affect the situation at all (I assume they wanted to be since the "jumped right on it" as son as they could) OR makes it even more clear why your mother would leave all her assets to your step mother--as she would have had no legal spousal claim to them otherwise when the will was changed.

 

[lillygator]

But you need to see that you ARE saying that they owe you and you expect it. Right in this very post you said you "deserve" it. Deserve, owe, entitled.....those all mean the same thing.

I am pretty much done arguing the point, I am just saying that while you may not recoginse that you feel you are owed something, you do indeed feel that way. It would just be easier on you if you would just admit it, then you could work on those feelings. Instead your trying to deny that you feel that way.

Kristine

I don't think she will or wants to see it. she just wanted anyone to validate her feelings that she is 100% correct in feeling that she is entitled to every cent her mother had.

I did notice that prior it was going to be split between her and her niece. Wonder if it was kept that way if she would feel the same that she in entitled to everything and we'd be hearing that version now.

I don't think people are bashing. I think there has been some name calling but bashing? really? I think that is what are called the people who don't agree with you.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't even think that there is necessarily anything wrong with the OP feeling entitled to the inheritance IF that was the normal expectation in her family. That simply might be how the family members interact.

I can't relate because I personally expect nothing from my family members. It just isn't a factor in my world but it might be quite different in the OP's.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I'm usually one with no sympathy for an OP who doesn't like getting conflicting opinions, but in this case, some posters have gone beyond offering a different opinion. The OP has been called names. What is that, if not bashing? I must say, I think she's done a great job of not stooping to the same level and retaliating in kind.

Everyone who disagrees with her feelings has said so. Again and again. She knows what you think. We all know what you think. I should just stop reading this thread if I don't like it, I know , but it seems to be more about proving you are right to some of the posters here.

She was hurt, she vented. She was wheedled enough to get fed up and say OK, yes she felt entitled. No need to continue the gloating over it.

Entitled may be too strong a word, but really, don't most children inherit their parents assets? I come from a background where couples nearly always marry for life (except one aunt, who's done it 4 times! ) , so I've really never run across this situation in my own family. When one parent dies, they leave their assets to the other parent. When that parent dies, the assets go to the kids. Isn't that how it worked before divorce and remarriage became so commonplace?

Even now that it is so common, you see a lot of people setting up trusts to hold their assets after their death. The new spouse gets the income from the assets, continues to live in the home, etc, until his/her death, then the assets are distributed to the children of the original owner. That is what I would do if my dh died and I remarried, and I would "expect" it of my own parents, not out of greed or selfishness, but because I just couldn't fathom not ensuring that the assets stay in my own family and not that of my new spouse's adult children.

Of course, I would have much rather seen my parents live longer and in better health and be able to enjoy their retirement, spending all their money on fabulous vacations, but the fact is, even if they had, they were too financially responsible to spend every last penny and die with no home or savings.

 

[Missy1961]

I'm usually one with no sympathy for an OP who doesn't like getting conflicting opinions, but in this case, some posters have gone beyond offering a different opinion. The OP has been called names. What is that, if not bashing? I must say, I think she's done a great job of not stooping to the same level and retaliating in kind.

Everyone who disagrees with her feelings has said so. Again and again. She knows what you think. We all know what you think. I should just stop reading this thread if I don't like it, I know , but it seems to be more about proving you are right to some of the posters here.

She was hurt, she vented. She was wheedled enough to get fed up and say OK, yes she felt entitled. No need to continue the gloating over it.

Entitled may be too strong a word, but really, don't most children inherit their parents assets? I come from a background where couples nearly always marry for life (except one aunt, who's done it 4 times! ) , so I've really never run across this situation in my own family. When one parent dies, they leave their assets to the other parent. When that parent dies, the assets go to the kids. Isn't that how it worked before divorce and remarriage became so commonplace?

Even now that it is so common, you see a lot of people setting up trusts to hold their assets after their death. The new spouse gets the income from the assets, continues to live in the home, etc, until his/her death, then the assets are distributed to the children of the original owner. That is what I would do if my dh died and I remarried, and I would "expect" it of my own parents, not out of greed or selfishness, but because I just couldn't fathom not ensuring that the assets stay in my own family and not that of my new spouse's adult children.

Of course, I would have much rather seen my parents live longer and in better health and be able to enjoy their retirement, spending all their money on fabulous vacations, but the fact is, even if they had, they were too financially responsible to spend every last penny and die with no home or savings.

Yes, that's what's common--parent leaves to other parent, then that parent leaves to kids. (I know that's how my parents had it set up). My dad is a widower, many of his friends from his widow/widower group who have remarried have new wills. Second wife/husband does get anything they got during the marriage--say if they bought a house together--but things/money from the first marriage goes to the kids. My dad was just telling me the other day about a couple (second marriage for both) who have been living in her house since they're married. If she dies before he does, her kids get the house--he'd either have to leave or hope the kids would let him stay.

But I guess in the cases of same sex couples, it's harder.

 

[SingingMUA]

This whole thread just makes me sad...

It makes me sad for the fact that my partner and my family could be having this same "issue" one day... or vice versa.

I'm sad that the OP continues to refer to her stepmom/mom's wife as "the spouse". That makes me sad because most of my partner's family COMPLETELY disregards who I am... even on the most basic level of being a human being, all due to the relationship I have with their daughter/sister/cousin/niece, and therefore completely ignore me, or call me things like "the girl". That to me, is like something you would say when referring to an object... i.e. - the cat, the vase, the tv... (and it's not like they can't remember my name... it sounds exactly like my DP's name...)

OP, I pray that you truly have found peace with the situation, and that your "venting" helped even if in some small way. I also pray that you are maybe one day able to see the situation from a different perspective and perhaps come to a place of understanding your mom's motives, and truly being able to let go. I'm truly very sorry for your losses. I know it must be tough.

 

[connorlevismom]

This whole thread just makes me sad...

It makes me sad for the fact that my partner and my family could be having this same "issue" one day... or vice versa.

I'm sad that the OP continues to refer to his stepmom/mom's wife as "the spouse". That makes me sad because most of my partner's family COMPLETELY disregards who I am... even on the most basic level of being a human being, all due to the relationship I have with their daughter/sister/cousin/niece, and therefore completely ignore me, or call me things like "the girl". That to me, is like something you would say when referring to an object... i.e. - the cat, the vase, the tv... (and it's not like they can't remember my name... it sounds exactly like my DP's name...)

OP, I pray that you truly have found peace with the situation, and that your "venting" helped even if in some small way. I also pray that you are maybe one day able to see the situation from a different perspective and perhaps come to a place of understanding your mom's motives, and truly being able to let go. I'm truly very sorry for your losses. I know it must be tough.

Stories like yours make me so sad. My sister is gay and has been with her wife for going on 20 years. Her wife is treated as a complete part of our family and I cannot imagine how it feels for you to not have that. How horrible.

In may case, we are extremely close to my sister and my SIL and they are both my sons godmothers.

Again, I am so sorry that you are treated this way. It truly breaks my heart.

Kristine

 

[NHdisneylover]

This whole thread just makes me sad...

It makes me sad for the fact that my partner and my family could be having this same "issue" one day... or vice versa.

I'm sad that the OP continues to refer to his stepmom/mom's wife as "the spouse". That makes me sad because most of my partner's family COMPLETELY disregards who I am... even on the most basic level of being a human being, all due to the relationship I have with their daughter/sister/cousin/niece, and therefore completely ignore me, or call me things like "the girl". That to me, is like something you would say when referring to an object... i.e. - the cat, the vase, the tv... (and it's not like they can't remember my name... it sounds exactly like my DP's name...)

OP, I pray that you truly have found peace with the situation, and that your "venting" helped even if in some small way. I also pray that you are maybe one day able to see the situation from a different perspective and perhaps come to a place of understanding your mom's motives, and truly being able to let go. I'm truly very sorry for your losses. I know it must be tough.

My heart just breaks for you (and anyone else in similar situations). I so very much hope that someday your wife's family wakes up and realizes what they are missing in a daughter in law and apologizes and begins to treat you as they should. It is doubtful it will ever happen, but I do hope it does.

 

[SingingMUA]

Stories like yours make me so sad. My sister is gay and has been with her wife for going on 20 years. Her wife is treated as a complete part of our family and I cannot imagine how it feels for you to not have that. How horrible.

In may case, we are extremely close to my sister and my SIL and they are both my sons godmothers.

Again, I am so sorry that you are treated this way. It truly breaks my heart.

Kristine

Thanks!


OP... I went back and corrected my previous post, changing "his" to "her", because I think I remember reading some pages back that you are a woman, correct?? Not sure why I typed "his" instead of "her"... sorry about that.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I don't think her being gay has anything to do with it so maybe you should have left that part out. People are going to zero in on that and not hear anything else.

I also do not think you are wrong to feel cheated. Yes, it was your Mom's stuff to do with as she wanted but you are her child, and IMO children should trump spouses.

When my grandmother remarried she had a pretty nice size estate that was left to her from my Grandfather's decades of working his fingers to the bone. Since I am sure he'd turn over in his grave to have his money go to anyone other than his children Grandma gave her estate careful attention. Out of respect for this my grandmother VERY CLEARLY set things up to revert to her 2 children in the case of her passing. When she did die, after being married to husband #2 for 22 years, her estate still went to her children.

Now I know this opinion is going to irk many people because population wise, very few people who will respond are wife or husband #1 with children from family #1. As a result they are going to be thinking of their own position as non wife #1 when they answer, so you are going to get slammed. Actually, I fully expect to get slammed too but I've got something to say so I'll say it.

I tell my DH all the time that if anything ever happens to me and he gives ANYONE ANYTHING that should rightfully go to our kids I would find a way to come back and haunt him. I don't care about #2, let her take care of herself and her own offspring. What is ours is our children's, no exceptions. Now whatever he does with her after I'm gone is her's to claim, but what we did together is off limits. Same goes for me. If I am widowed early the things my DH has worked so hard to provide for his family will not go to some stranger, everything will go to our children.

BTW, I have totally cut myself off from my own diseased family tree and fully expect to be cut out of everything so I can sympathize with the OP. It already happened when my mother died but when the other one goes there will be more blows to come. It's one thing to know you don't rank with your mother when she's alive but it is a brutal pill to swallow when you realize she held firm to that even into her death. It's not so much about the money, the money is just a symbol. This sort of thing cuts deeply and can't be understood by anyone unless you've been through it. OP, I am so deeply sorry for your loss What you are feeling is brutal.

 

[ols386]

I'm usually one with no sympathy for an OP who doesn't like getting conflicting opinions, but in this case, some posters have gone beyond offering a different opinion. The OP has been called names. What is that, if not bashing? I must say, I think she's done a great job of not stooping to the same level and retaliating in kind.

Everyone who disagrees with her feelings has said so. Again and again. She knows what you think. We all know what you think. I should just stop reading this thread if I don't like it, I know , but it seems to be more about proving you are right to some of the posters here.

She was hurt, she vented. She was wheedled enough to get fed up and say OK, yes she felt entitled. No need to continue the gloating over it.

Entitled may be too strong a word, but really, don't most children inherit their parents assets? I come from a background where couples nearly always marry for life (except one aunt, who's done it 4 times! ) , so I've really never run across this situation in my own family. When one parent dies, they leave their assets to the other parent. When that parent dies, the assets go to the kids. Isn't that how it worked before divorce and remarriage became so commonplace?

Even now that it is so common, you see a lot of people setting up trusts to hold their assets after their death. The new spouse gets the income from the assets, continues to live in the home, etc, until his/her death, then the assets are distributed to the children of the original owner. That is what I would do if my dh died and I remarried, and I would "expect" it of my own parents, not out of greed or selfishness, but because I just couldn't fathom not ensuring that the assets stay in my own family and not that of my new spouse's adult children.

Of course, I would have much rather seen my parents live longer and in better health and be able to enjoy their retirement, spending all their money on fabulous vacations, but the fact is, even if they had, they were too financially responsible to spend every last penny and die with no home or savings.

I agree with all of your post. Name-calling, bashing, it's not a good thing.

I think maybe "expect" is a more applicable term that "entitlement". I know if my dad had left everything to my step-mom, I would have been surprised and a bit hurt.

Yes, that's what's common--parent leaves to other parent, then that parent leaves to kids. (I know that's how my parents had it set up). My dad is a widower, many of his friends from his widow/widower group who have remarried have new wills. Second wife/husband does get anything they got during the marriage--say if they bought a house together--but things/money from the first marriage goes to the kids. My dad was just telling me the other day about a couple (second marriage for both) who have been living in her house since they're married. If she dies before he does, her kids get the house--he'd either have to leave or hope the kids would let him stay.

But I guess in the cases of same sex couples, it's harder.

I don't think it is any different if it's same-sex couples or heterosexual couples. I've not picked up that the op has any problem with her mother's partner, just the idea that everything went to the partner (of only a few years), rather than to the child.

 

[punkin]

SingingMUA, I am sorry your partner's family treats you that way. It is wrong. I also don't think the fact that OP's mom was gay has any bearing on the discussion. It just explains why the spouse is female. I would have the same opinion if it was a hetero union as well, namely that you don't disinherit your children without a good reason and a lot of advance conversation. This was just hurtful.

 

[lukenick1]

This whole thread just makes me sad...


I'm sad that the OP continues to refer to her stepmom/mom's wife as "the spouse". That makes me sad because most of my partner's family COMPLETELY disregards who I am... even on the most basic level of being a human being, all due to the relationship I have with their daughter/sister/cousin/niece, and therefore completely ignore me, or call me things like "the girl". That to me, is like something you would say when referring to an object... i.e. - the cat, the vase, the tv... (and it's not like they can't remember my name... it sounds exactly like my DP's name...)

OP, I pray that you truly have found peace with the situation, and that your "venting" helped even if in some small way. I also pray that you are maybe one day able to see the situation from a different perspective and perhaps come to a place of understanding your mom's motives, and truly being able to let go. I'm truly very sorry for your losses. I know it must be tough.

I think you are forgetting something here. I am talking to complete strangers and wish to stay anonymous. I am only referring to her as "the spouse" as I talk to all of you. I dont go around in my real life and say oh she is "the spouse" of my Mom. I introduce her as my Mother's Partner as does she. My kids call her Auntie, and she is treated very equally in our family.

Thank you for your polite words. I have let go, this thread is keeping it going for me. I hope someday your partners family will accept you.

 

[lukenick1]

Stories like yours make me so sad. My sister is gay and has been with her wife for going on 20 years. Her wife is treated as a complete part of our family and I cannot imagine how it feels for you to not have that. How horrible.

In may case, we are extremely close to my sister and my SIL and they are both my sons godmothers.

Again, I am so sorry that you are treated this way. It truly breaks my heart.

Kristine

Now it all makes sense to me why you feel the way you do.

 

[lukenick1]

I don't think her being gay has anything to do with it so maybe you should have left that part out. People are going to zero in on that and not hear anything else.

I also do not think you are wrong to feel cheated. Yes, it was your Mom's stuff to do with as she wanted but you are her child, and IMO children should trump spouses.

When my grandmother remarried she had a pretty nice size estate that was left to her from my Grandfather's decades of working his fingers to the bone. Since I am sure he'd turn over in his grave to have his money go to anyone other than his children Grandma gave her estate careful attention. Out of respect for this my grandmother VERY CLEARLY set things up to revert to her 2 children in the case of her passing. When she did die, after being married to husband #2 for 22 years, her estate still went to her children.

Now I know this opinion is going to irk many people because population wise, very few people who will respond are wife or husband #1 with children from family #1. As a result they are going to be thinking of their own position as non wife #1 when they answer, so you are going to get slammed. Actually, I fully expect to get slammed too but I've got something to say so I'll say it.

I tell my DH all the time that if anything ever happens to me and he gives ANYONE ANYTHING that should rightfully go to our kids I would find a way to come back and haunt him. I don't care about #2, let her take care of herself and her own offspring. What is ours is our children's, no exceptions. Now whatever he does with her after I'm gone is her's to claim, but what we did together is off limits. Same goes for me. If I am widowed early the things my DH has worked so hard to provide for his family will not go to some stranger, everything will go to our children.

BTW, I have totally cut myself off from my own diseased family tree and fully expect to be cut out of everything so I can sympathize with the OP. It already happened when my mother died but when the other one goes there will be more blows to come. It's one thing to know you don't rank with your mother when she's alive but it is a brutal pill to swallow when you realize she held firm to that even into her death. It's not so much about the money, the money is just a symbol. This sort of thing cuts deeply and can't be understood by anyone unless you've been through it. OP, I am so deeply sorry for your loss What you are feeling is brutal.

Thank you so much. Finally someone can say what I want to say but just couldnt find the right words.

 

[lukenick1]

I agree with all of your post. Name-calling, bashing, it's not a good thing.

I think maybe "expect" is a more applicable term that "entitlement". I know if my dad had left everything to my step-mom, I would have been surprised and a bit hurt.





I don't think it is any different if it's same-sex couples or heterosexual couples. I've not picked up that the op has any problem with her mother's partner, just the idea that everything went to the partner (of only a few years), rather than to the child.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!! Thank you!