How would you feel if there was a "Sambo" in your neighborhood?

[Aidensmom]

We looked upon another group of human beings as this Other - to be studied, protected, pities - or even considered adorable.

What I find attractive has nothing to do with pity. You think I was attracted to my husband, or think my son is adorable, because I pity them or have a need to study or protect them? Yes, I think black babies are extremely cute, they just ARE, I find them to be attractive. My opinion. It is just my taste. I guess you learn something new every day, I didn't realize it was a terrible thing to think someone was adorable. I guess I better go apologize to my son.

 

[gepetto]

Oh I was there back when all my friends were wearing size 5,6 and 7 shoe sizes while I was wearing a size 10.

I thought I was cursed with boat feet

Holy Saquatch, Batman.

 

[luvthatduke]

...but in this day and age you also have people discriminating against those in their own race.

Pongo69, that was probably the most insightful thing I've read lately!
Really hits the mark...

On the topic of lawn jockeys, I'm glad to read the true meaning
behind them, but know that some find them offensive,
and I understand why the "Sambos" are hurtful.
If they are displayed to express a homeowner's view,
and designed to be hurtful, than they need to go.
If someone collects antiques, or it's a family heirloom,
then perhaps they need to consider the placement of them,
especially if there are African-American families in the neighborhood.

One prominent house in our town has 2 very dark lawn jockeys
at either side of their driveway.
Some time ago they both got draped with bright, blue rain ponchos??
Only their bodies are covered...
The ponchos are exchanged for new ones when they get
torn or worn from harsh weather.
Only thing DH and I can figure out is that someone complained
and that was the homeowner's response?

 

[dis ms.]

I had a caricature of my son done, and by nature of a caricature, his most outstanding features were, as an understatement, exaggerated. I don't at all find it offensive. The Sambo statue may indeed be a caricature of someone, but why is it bad to exaggerate the certain features someone may have had? If I have big ears, I would expect those to be greatly exaggerated by a caricature, if I had big lips, the same thing.

Okay, I'm not sure I can say this any clearer, but I will try. I feel as if I'm just saying the same thing over and over. Anyhoo...These images--the ones that are the basis of these "Sambo" statues--were not portrayed as caricatures. These historical images of blacks were portrayed AS THE REAL THING. As if blacks really looked that way. Back then, it was made clear to blacks that their larger lips, kinkier hair, etc., were less desirable than traditionally white features. These cartoonish portrayals focused on and greatly exaggerated these features.

When you take your son to get a caricature, you expect it to be ridiculously exaggerated. In fact, you wouldn't be getting your money's worth it it weren't. But, if you wanted a more realistic portrait of your son, and the artist did one with ridiculously exaggerated features, wouldn't you be less than thrilled? Black people were less than thrilled with their "realistic portrayals" for the same reason.

I just have a really hard time believing that anyone with any of these statues is trying to state that they are KKK members..

I agree. I don't think that anyone here was implying that. I certainly wasn't.

 

[Cyndiu]

It's not the fact that you think it. It's the idea of a white woman saying indulgently "oh those little black babies are so cute. I'd love to have one."

It sounds like noblisse oblige - since you are of the prevailing white class, the race which is the standard and arbiter of what is attractive, the race to which all others are compared (black people have full lips compared to whites , black people have curly hair compared to whites)

This is not your doing or your fault, or mine or anyone elses of the last several generations either. These are attitudes and presumptions that have been around for hundreds of years.

In college, I took a Humanities class that focused on stereotypes of minorities, as depicted in literature, advertising and film. During one class, I had to point out the irony of a bunch of middle-class white college kids earnestly discussing how difficult it must be to be poor, uneducated and black.

We were well-intentioned in our efforts, but in our own way we displayed our own racism. We looked upon another group of human beings as this Other - to be studied, protected, pities - or even considered adorable.

I don't know if it will ever be possible to heal the differences between ethnic groups - particularly black and white. That is a divide with so much violence and hatred behind it - I don't know if it can ever be healed. But I do think we have an obligation to try (on both sides).

And part of "trying" ought to be giving up these symbols of that divide. Whatever aesthetic value these statues have cannot outweigh the ugly connotations that come with them. Put them in a museum, if they have historical significance, but not on the lawn.

Brilliant. Thank you.

 

[Cyndiu]

I understand this to a degree. If everything is truly features NO ONE has ever had, including whoever the sculpurist may have bases this on, then OK, I could see that there could be some ill intent on the sculpurists part. But if there is anyone (now or at the time the sculpture was created) that faintly resembles these features, then I would see it only as someone making a representation of how one particular person looked.

And just another thought is that because certain races may be more apt to certain features, what would make any of them better than another. I had a caricature of my son done, and by nature of a caricature, his most outstanding features were, as an understatement, exaggerated. I don't at all find it offensive. The Sambo statue may indeed be a caricature of someone, but why is it bad to exaggerate the certain features someone may have had? If I have big ears, I would expect those to be greatly exaggerated by a caricature, if I had big lips, the same thing. . Why are certain features considered less worthy than others?

And, on another note, why is a statue considered to represent all people of a race? Not all artistic representations of other races are complimentary either. I just have a really hard time believing that anyone with any of these statues is trying to state that they are KKK members. I thinks some people just see an artisic quality in them that makes them attractive.

I don't think you need to understand it. All you need is to know that some people find this type of thing offensive and accept it.

 

[gepetto]

I don't think you need to understand it. All you need is to know that some people find this type of thing offensive and accept it.

feeling a little "white guilt" there? aw:

 

[Cyndiu]

Absolutely not. I haven't done anything to feel guilty about, I'm not the one defending offensive statuary.

 

[gepetto]

I haven't done anything to feel guilty about, I'm not the one defending offensive statuary.

of course you haven't. You're just sucking up to the black folks here.

 

[Cyndiu]

of course you haven't. You're just sucking up to the black folks here.

Now that's offensive. You don't even know me.

 

[Aidensmom]

I just want to refer back to this post. If this is true, if this was the sculpurist's intent, what is the problem?

And even if the sculpurist was trying to say that certain features were inferior, why do you accept that? There is no power to someone's opinion if you don't accept it. I am blonde and Polish, you can think I am dumb as dirt, doesn't mean I think I am. It is a statue, that some people just happen to like. Some people consider blonde and Polish jokes funny (even I on occasion), but I have never actually met one of those people who truly discriminated against me on that basis. The whole question is if these statues are offensive. If you find them offensive, that, I believe, is just your opinion, and possibly an incorrect judgement of the people that have them. I think truly racist people (and, unfortunately, I do know a few) would rather not have ANY representation of another race in thier yard. I have known people with the aforementioned statues, all of which just liked them for the piece of art or antique tha they were, and not for some racist statement.

That is the bottom line I am trying to say. There is plenty of TRUE racism in existance in this country, but I honestly think that the possession of these statues is, for the most part, not an expression of it.

I looked up lawn jockey to see if I could figure out why it has a negative connotation associated with it. I had heard it was a tribute and this is what I found.

http://www.horseinfo.com/info/misc/jockeyinfo.html

I copies this one:
http://www.mountainhomeplace.com/jocko.htm
The Story Of Jocko
What is the history behind "Jocko"?

Jocko or the Lawn Jockey is seen in the South and in the Appalachian's of the United States.
Many have been destroyed because of the thinking that they are a racial slur to African-Americans. But is this true?

The River Road African American Museum in Louisiana tells us that lawn jockeys represent nothing of the sort, rather they show us a proud moment in U.S. history.


The story begins the icy night in December 1776 when General George Washington decided to cross the Delaware River to launch a surprise attack on the British forces at Trenton.
Jocko Graves, a twelve-year-old African-American, sought to fight the Redcoats, but Washington deemed him too young and ordered him to look after the horses, asking Jocko to keep a lantern blazing along the Delaware so the company would know where to return after battle. Many hours later, Washington and his men returned to their horses who were tied up to Graves, he had frozen to death with the lantern still clenched in his fist. Washington was so moved by the young boy's devotion to the revolutionary cause he commissioned a statue of the "Faithful Groomsman" to stand in Graves's honor at the general's estate in Mount Vernon.

By the time of the Civil War, these "Jocko" statues could be found on plantations throughout the South: like the North Star that pointed fleeing slaves to their freedom, the Jocko statues pointed to the safe houses of the Underground Railroad. Along the Mississippi River, a green ribbon tied to a statue's arm — whether clandestinely or with the owner's knowledge — indicated safety; a red ribbon meant danger. Thus these original lawn jockey statues today fetch thousands of dollars as true artifacts of the Underground Railroad that conducted so many African-American slaves to freedom.

Similar cast-iron statues began appearing in the decades after Washington's crossing of the Delaware in jockey silks, whether for aesthetic reasons or confusion born of Graves's first name. The clothing worn by the lawn jockeys resembled the clothing worn by black riding jockeys, who have a glorious history. In 1875, the first 13 winners of the Kentucky Derby were black, the first being Jockey Oliver Lewis.
Lewis was the first to win three Derbies.

So contrary to some folk's thinking that these statues are a racial slur they are a memorial to Jocko, a beacon for Freedom and a tribute to some of the greatest Jockey's racing has ever known!

 

[tiggersmom2]

That is the bottom line I am trying to say. There is plenty of TRUE racism in existance in this country, but I honestly think that the possession of these statues is, for the most part, not an expression of it.

I think this is the BEST opinion and quote of the WHOLE thread! Well said!

 

[dis ms.]

I just want to refer back to this post. If this is true, if this was the sculpurist's intent, what is the problem?

And even if the sculpurist was trying to say that certain features were inferior, why do you accept that? There is no power to someone's opinion if you don't accept it. I am blonde and Polish, you can think I am dumb as dirt, doesn't mean I think I am. It is a statue, that some people just happen to like. Some people consider blonde and Polish jokes funny (even I on occasion), but I have never actually met one of those people who truly discriminated against me on that basis. The whole question is if these statues are offensive. If you find them offensive, that, I believe, is just your opinion, and possibly an incorrect judgement of the people that have them. I think truly racist people (and, unfortunately, I do know a few) would rather not have ANY representation of another race in thier yard. I have known people with the aforementioned statues, all of which just liked them for the piece of art or antique tha they were, and not for some racist statement.

That is the bottom line I am trying to say. There is plenty of TRUE racism in existance in this country, but I honestly think that the possession of these statues is, for the most part, not an expression of it.

That post was referring to the lawn jockeys, not the "Sambo" statues. You asked what the problem was with the exaggerated features. I assumed, therefore, you meant the Sambo statues. Nice story about the lawn jockeys, just not relevant to the Sambo statues.

Anyway, I think you are making an assumption that just because people find the statue offensive that they think the owner is a racist. The OP's Russian neighbors, IMHO, don't sound racist. Just possibly unaware of the negative connotations the statues might have for some people. I have encountered several people who I don't feel are racist, just unaware. One of my DH's relatives used the term "coloreds" when I first joined the family. I didn't think he was a racist, just unaware that "coloreds" is generally no longer an acceptable term. This is unfortunate, but understandable since, when I visit DH's hometown, the population is Caucasians: 5000, Black Folks: 1.

 

[Pongo69]

Holy Saquatch, Batman.

 

[Bunch24]

Well, I see the PC Police are out in full force.

 

[daddydisneyworld]

DDW-are you KKK? Seems like you might be and I just want to know.

of course not. are you? it seems like you are, & i'd like to know

what the heck kind of statement is that?!?!

i think that we are too sensitive about stereotypes & i am a kkk member?

your thought level disgusts me.

 

[dennis99ss]

I know of a concrete statute maker, a black man, who sells the black lawn jockey. I told him once that I thought it was odd that he would be selling them. He said he didn't care, people want to buy one, he will sell it, and, he said he sold quite a few.