How powerful is a PRAYER?

[rockbottomsound]

The God I believe in doesn't give people cancer or put them on United 93 with a terrorist. Those things happen because of human frailty and intervention. Human bodies are frail, and susceptible to disease and humans can and do choose to do things that kill or injure other humans. However, I believe that God is in the compassion of the caregivers for their patients and in the rescuers that ran into the Towers to try and save people.

If someone wants to pray to win a sporting event, buy a house or win the lottery, more power to them. I don't do that personally, but I'm certainly not going to tell someone else what they can and cannot pray for.

 

[Aidensmom]

Why is there the conception that people who believe in God just sit back and think whatever happens is just meant to be? Not everything that happens on earth is God's will. I'd venture to say that a large percentage of it is not. Other than the terrorist organizations themselves, I don't know of anyone who thinks the terrorist acts are God's will. .

As for the other thread, the person specifically wrote that she is praying to not be angry if the outcome is not what she wants. I'm not reading into that, I'm just plain reading it.

 

[orljustin]

We are not praying that we will get the house. We are praying that God's will be done. If it is supposed to be our house, there is no way that anybody else will get it, but if it's not meant to be then it's not meant to be. I'm praying that I will accept whatever happens without getting angry if it does not go our way.

There's two separate things:
We are praying that God's will be done.
I'm praying that I will accept whatever happens without getting angry if it does not go our way.

Two separate things. I can only assume that "we" refers to the request for people to assist her.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

There's two separate things:
We are praying that God's will be done.
I'm praying that I will accept whatever happens without getting angry if it does not go our way.

Two separate things. I can only assume that "we" refers to the request for people to assist her.

I believe the "we" in that sentence is referring to her husband and herself.

 

[Aidensmom]

I believe the "we" in that sentence is referring to her husband and herself.

That is what I thought too. I guess that is why I read it the way I read it.

 

[jimmiej]

This is why God is so logically circular.

Get the house --> God's will --> Happy
Don't get the house --> God's will --> Happy

This is what the Apostle Paul says about your thoughts:

Phillipians 4

11I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

That's tough to do, but a worthy goal, IMO.

 

[cybrkitn]

What is the point of this? Why pray that "god's will be done"? If you believe in "god's will", then you have to imagine that "god's will" is going to be done regardless of you. Why the need to draw attention to your problem of the day? How is some unnamed, unknown person's thoughts going to affect your ability to handle a situation? Take the time and personally come to your own terms, but why the need to yell for attention?

This is not really a dig at the poster in that thread. I know house buying is a stressful process, and it's good to find support from friends, but why tie it into the whole prayer thing, which, as I've read from this thread, is not at all supposed to be something like this.

I know you don't understand the "why" end of it. It's hard for a non-Christian to understand the why's and how's of what we believe and have experienced.

As Kenneth Copeland explains in his book, "Prayer Your Foundation for Success", he tells what prayer is not and what it is. He says, "Prayer is not an emotional release. It is not an escape valve. It is much more than just asking God for a favor. Perhaps most important of all, prayer is not a religious exercise." He goes on to say, "You should be praying for results every time you pray. Do not just speak empty words...The beauty of your prayer does not get the ear of God. He responds to faith...Faith causes you to receive from God. The believer who is operating in faith believes that God's power went to work the moment he prayed." Praying and having faith go hand-in-hand.

If a Christian does not have faith in their prayer that person is giving into doubt, so what they are praying for will not be answered. Kenneth Copeland also goes into explaining this as well. He says, "Satan uses doubt with great skill and cunning to cause you to fail. He knows the importance of getting you to waver. He constantly tries to throw doubt and unbelief into your consciousness. If you begin to wonder whether you have the answer, Satan will purpose to secure a foothold in your mind. By gradually increasing his influence, your faith will not be effective. This will cause you to be defeated." Satan loves to mess up God's plan for us and take away our blessings from God. He will try to get that foothold into a Christian's pray so as to take these away. That gives a Christian an even bigger reason to pray that God's will be done.

 

[orljustin]

...never mind.

 

[cardaway]

I know you don't understand the "why" end of it. It's hard for a non-Christian to understand the why's and how's of what we believe and have experienced.

Just because somebody disagrees it doesn't mean they don't understand the situation. In fact I think it's pretty rude to imply otherwise.

 

[cybrkitn]

Just because somebody disagrees it doesn't mean they don't understand the situation. In fact I think it's pretty rude to imply otherwise.

I'm sorry if my statement above came across the wrong way. I have no problem if someone disagrees with something. We each have our own viewpoints. I guess the way I read it back to myself is with a tone that was in understanding kind of way. But I can see that you (and maybe others) have read it differently than I had intended. I was not implying anything and apologize if it came out the wrong way.

 

[John VN]

Sorry, I just don't get this Kenneth Copeland guy. I must be missing some brain cells because it sounds like some hoo-ey to me. Guess I will just crawl back into my cave.

The above was not meant to flame anyone.

Believe in what you want, it is fine with me, I just don't agree.

 

[rockbottomsound]

No offense to the Poster but that Kenneth Copeland person is just another human being. I would consider those things just "his opinion" not necessarily fact or anything.

 

[phillybeth]

Sorry, I just don't get this Kenneth Copeland guy. I must be missing some brain cells because it sounds like some hoo-ey to me.

Me too- in fact he sounds like a whack-a-doodle to me.

God's will is God's will and all the praying in the world will not change it. But apparantly he is saying that God can be swayed by a prayer, much like a parent giving in to a whining child. Hmm.

 

[Fitswimmer]

No offense to the Poster but that Kenneth Copeland person is just another human being. I would consider those things just "his opinion" not necessarily fact or anything.

I believe that he is a Christian that is writing to other Christians, so that has to be taken into consideration. From the way it reads, he's trying to help Christians in their prayer life.

There is a vast distance between disagreement and not understanding. I can understand a lot of people's positions here on the boards but that doesn't mean I agree with them. Saying that someone who disagrees with you "just doesn't understand" is pretty close to calling them ignorant.

 

[cybrkitn]

I believe that he is a Christian that is writing to other Christians, so that has to be taken into consideration. From the way it reads, he's trying to help Christians in their prayer life.

There is a vast distance between disagreement and not understanding. I can understand a lot of people's positions here on the boards but that doesn't mean I agree with them. Saying that someone who disagrees with you "just doesn't understand" is pretty close to calling them ignorant.

That was the reason why I had apologized. I didn't realize it had come across that way as it was not what I had intended. It's hard when the reader cannot hear the tone used by the OP and will interpret a post differently. But lessoned learned. Thanks Cardaway and Fitswimmer for pointing it out to me

Ok, back on topic.....

 

[jimmiej]

As Kenneth Copeland explains in his book, "Prayer Your Foundation for Success", he tells what prayer is not and what it is. He says, "Prayer is not an emotional release. It is not an escape valve. It is much more than just asking God for a favor. Perhaps most important of all, prayer is not a religious exercise." He goes on to say, "You should be praying for results every time you pray. Do not just speak empty words...The beauty of your prayer does not get the ear of God. He responds to faith...Faith causes you to receive from God. The believer who is operating in faith believes that God's power went to work the moment he prayed." Praying and having faith go hand-in-hand.

If a Christian does not have faith in their prayer that person is giving into doubt, so what they are praying for will not be answered. Kenneth Copeland also goes into explaining this as well. He says, "Satan uses doubt with great skill and cunning to cause you to fail. He knows the importance of getting you to waver. He constantly tries to throw doubt and unbelief into your consciousness. If you begin to wonder whether you have the answer, Satan will purpose to secure a foothold in your mind. By gradually increasing his influence, your faith will not be effective. This will cause you to be defeated." Satan loves to mess up God's plan for us and take away our blessings from God. He will try to get that foothold into a Christian's pray so as to take these away. That gives a Christian an even bigger reason to pray that God's will be done.

I think KC is exactly right on this. Everything he says here can be backed up with Scripture. My pastor preached this same message a few weeks ago. I believe we need to be very specific in our prayers.

God's will is God's will and all the praying in the world will not change it. But apparantly he is saying that God can be swayed by a prayer, much like a parent giving in to a whining child. Hmm.

I respectfully disagree. I believe in Luke 11, Jesus illustrates that our earnest & heartfelt prayers can change things. James 5 says:

The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

Psalm 102

17 He will respond to the prayer of the destitute;
he will not despise their plea.

John 16:24

Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.

 

[Darth Cupcake]

I have not read through the entire thread. Just a few thoughts.
The Jane Clayson of the Today show sat down with Anne Graham Lotz (Rev. Billy Graham's daughter) 2 days after 9/11. Here is one excerpt that helped me.

Jane Clayson: I've heard people say, those who are religious, those who are not, if God is good, how could God less this happen? To that, you say?

Anne Graham Lotz: I say God is also angry when he sees something like this. I would say also for several years now Americans in a sense have shaken their fist at God and said, God, we want you out of our schools, our government, our business, we want you out of our marketplace. And God, who is a gentleman, has just quietly backed out of our national and political life, our public life. Removing his hand of blessing and protection. We need to turn to God first of all and say, God, we're sorry we have treated you this way and we invite you now to come into our national life. We put our trust in you. We have our trust in God on our coins, we need to practice it.

More thoughts on prayer: Anne offers a compassionate and scripturally rich explanation of how we are to live through and even grow through the bad times in our lives. She uses the accounts of Lazarus' death and resurrection and the Hebrew boys in Nebuchadnezzar's furnace to teach and challenge us at the same time. "Don't you think those boys begged God to deliver them out of bondage and send them home? Don't you imagine they were doing everything they knew to do and doing it right? And still God didn't answer. Instead He allowed them to face the fires of the superheated furnace." She asks, "Are you facing a superheated furnace? What God wants is for you to look full in the face of Jesus. Get your focus off whatever it is that appears to be unanswered and focus on the Son."

Whether God delivers you as He did Shadrach and his friends or resurrects the death in your life like Lazarus, or whether He, by His own intimate presence with you, provides grace to endure, He does it all with your best interest and spiritual wholeness in mind.

 

[rockbottomsound]

The whole "why does God let this happen" every time a bad event occurs is just silly to me. Why not ponder why God "lets" a volcano happen and wipe out a City, or a Tornado, or Hurricane. God sets things in motion and things happen as they happen. I seriously doubt God says to himself, I'm really tired of the Gulf Coast, I think I'll send Hurricane Katrina today and wipe some people out.

God creates nature, human beings included, and nature runs its own course from the Hurrican to the Volcano. God creates the Lion and allows a Lion to do what a Lion does, kill and eat other creatures. Its just all part of nature and our universe.

 

[jimmiej]

The whole "why does God let this happen" every time a bad event occurs is just silly to me. Why not ponder why God "lets" a volcano happen and wipe out a City, or a Tornado, or Hurricane. God sets things in motion and things happen as they happen. I seriously doubt God says to himself, I'm really tired of the Gulf Coast, I think I'll send Hurricane Katrina today and wipe some people out.

God creates nature, human beings included, and nature runs its own course from the Hurrican to the Volcano. God creates the Lion and allows a Lion to do what a Lion does, kill and eat other creatures. Its just all part of nature and our universe.

Just some food for thought...

What about the flood in the OT? What about the hail storm God sent on the Egyptians when Pharaoh refused to let the Jews go into the wilderness to worship?

 

[rockbottomsound]

Just some food for thought...

What about the flood in the OT? What about the hail storm God sent on the Egyptians when Pharaoh refused to let the Jews go into the wilderness to worship?

Well I'm not saying that God CAN"T use those things if he so chooses, I think he could, I just don't think he does on a everyday basis. Very rarely. But of course none of us can know or presume to know the real answer. We don't speak for God, but IMO, God may have done those things in the past, but I don't think he uses those tools anymore.

Someone could maybe track this down, but I think that there are passages in the Bible that talks about how now that we have the NT that God no longer directly speaks with people or no longer actively takes a role in this world as he did in the OT. I'm pretty sure I'm right about that.