How much privacy do spouse have from each other?

[bicker]

Actually, I was restating the position of the State of Michigan.

Fair enough.

Is it your position that married individuals do not have the right to have private conversations with their families and friends?

I asked you what law you were referring to. Please answer my question, first, so I can reply in proper context.

Most would not have a problem with the government imposing and enforcing laws that protect an individual's privacy.

So if your husband tests positives for HIV, you would expect that the PHS would respect his privacy and not notify you. Do I understand you correctly? Or going back to my earlier example: If your husband is sued for negligence and loses, you're okay with the first you hearing about it is when you get 10 day notice prior to the authorities attaching your personal accounts to pay off the judgment. Is that right?

And again, I'm not saying either way is right or wrong - actually I'm saying the exact opposite: Both sides make good points. There is no definitive right answer to this issue. My objection is to the assertion that there is. In the end, this will likely end up just being a popularity contest - which side of the issue looks prettier (on paper) - because both sides have strong foundations to rest on.

Let's ignore for a moment that you are making some pretty strange assumptions about me

What? That we agree about something?

please explain why you feel that married individuals should lose all rights to privacy?

Holy moley, your reaction is shocking. Where did you get the word all from? Why would you corrupt what you read so badly? Just to try to defend a point? Geez.

Let's try this again. I've reproduced the paragraph you tried to reply to, below. Please reply (if you wish) to what I actually wrote, instead of your corruption of it:

The question is what rights do we forfeit when we get married, in return for other rights we gain. If you think that you don't sacrifice some of your rights when you get married, you may be in for a rude awakening.

Also, while replying, try to answer the question, "What rights to disclosure do you gain from marrying someone?"

You are taking the strange position that a married person should not be allowed to have any communications that are private from his/her spouse.

No I'm not. But that sure would be easier, and therefore perhaps more fun, for you to argue against. However, it's pretty darned silly to argue with someone about something that they haven't said.

 

[sbell111]

Fair enough. ...

I left the only part of my post where you didn't try to twist my position to better argue yours. I truly wish this forum (easily) supported multiple embedded quotes so people couldn't do this.

If you truly want me to better explain my position, try post #60 for size.

 

[ccgirl]

Fair enough.

I asked you what law you were referring to. Please answer my question, first, so I can reply in proper context.

So if your husband tests positives for HIV, you would expect that the PHS would respect his privacy and not notify you. Do I understand you correctly? Or going back to my earlier example: If your husband is sued for negligence and loses, you're okay with the first you hearing about it is when you get 10 day notice prior to the authorities attaching your personal accounts to pay off the judgment. Is that right?

And again, I'm not saying either way is right or wrong - actually I'm saying the exact opposite: Both sides make good points. There is no definitive right answer to this issue. My objection is to the assertion that there is. In the end, this will likely end up just being a popularity contest - which side of the issue looks prettier (on paper) - because both sides have strong foundations to rest on.

What? That we agree about something?

Holy moley, your reaction is shocking. Where did you get the word all from? Why would you corrupt what you read so badly? Just to try to defend a point? Geez.

Let's try this again. I've reproduced the paragraph you tried to reply to, below. Please reply (if you wish) to what I actually wrote, instead of your corruption of it:

​

Also, while replying, try to answer the question, "What rights to disclosure do you gain from marrying someone?"

No I'm not. But that sure would be easier, and therefore perhaps more fun, for you to argue against. However, it's pretty darned silly to argue with someone about something that they haven't said.

Bolding mine. I may be wrong but I didn't think the PHS could notify others when someone tested positive. Due to HIPAA, I know they cannot give out any personal information about that person. Perhaps they are allowed to tell a spouse when a sexual partner tests positive but I do not believe they allowed to give the name, or other personal info, of the infected person.

 

[bicker]

I left the only part of my post where you didn't try to twist my position to better argue yours.

Coming from someone who just changed what I wrote from "some" to "all", that's pretty funny.

My point is clear. You don't have to reply to it if you don't have a valid counter-argument.

 

[sbell111]

Coming from someone who just changed what I wrote from "some" to "all", that's pretty funny.

My point is clear. You don't have to reply to it if you don't have a valid counter-argument.

Again, my entire counter-argument is easy to find at post #60. Your ignoring that it exists doesn't make it magically disappear.

 

[bicker]

Does a married individual have a right to a private conversation with a family or friend without the knowledge of his/her spouse?

Should your spouse go to jail for having overheard a conversation that you were having in the home you share with your spouse?

No.

Can he/she write and mail a letter to a friend or family member without disclosing it's contents to his/her spouse?

No one is suggesting anyone be compelled to reveal anything.

Must he/she even notify his/her spouse of the existence of the sent letter?

No one is suggesting anyone be compelled to reveal anything.

 

[wvjules]

 

[bicker]

Nah, when someone argues against something you didn't write, as she did, it's more like wrestling a greased pig.

 

[wvjules]

 

[brerrabbit]

Okay taking an idea from another part of law. Should the woman be charged with some form of negligence? I mean there are laws where people can be fined for creating an "attractive nusence". Example would be a playground for children under construction with a less than fully secure fence around it. Kids sneak in play around and get hurt. The builder is charged with negligence and ordered to pay damages, even though he had a fence around it. It was deemed an attractive nusence.

Could the same not be inferred, that leaving your password to your account next to the computer you both use would be considered an attractive nusence?

The bottom line is if you really wanted privacy why would the password to the account be out in the open for the world to see? I certainly don't leave mine laying around for anyone to see. If I did I think my expectation of privacy would be greatly lessened.

Obiviously hypothetical situations and I fully conceed that even if a password is revealed it still does not justify an individual logging in a reading e-mails but in reality the point is given what she had done what was her expectation regarding privacy? The law may grant that privacy to married couples but how does one prove conclusively that there was no verbal agreement between spouses whereby the wife had granted permission for the husband to access her account?

 

[SaraJayne]

Nah, when someone argues against something you didn't write, as she did, it's more like wrestling a greased pig.

I believe the poster you are referring to is a man.

 

[RitaE]

Originally Posted by sbell111 View Post
Does a married individual have a right to a private conversation with a family or friend without the knowledge of his/her spouse?

I'm not sure there is a legal right to a Private Conversation. As far as a practical right? In our marriage no. I don't keep secrets from my husband and I wouldn't want to be in a marriage where my husband keeps secrets from me.

Does that translate into me reporting to him every conversation I have? No.

But I have stopped family members and friends when they start down the "I'd like to tell you this but don't tell your husband" path. I would never agree to not tell my husband anything so it is best that everybody just assume that if they talk to me, he'll find out.

As far as a neighbor looking at my written down password and getting onto my computer. They are neighbors. They don't live in my house and they don't jointly own my computer, that desk, or the paper it is written on. When my husband starts rooting around the desk it isn't snooping because it is also his desk.

 

[wvjules]

I'm not sure there is a legal right to a Private Conversation. As far as a practical right? In our marriage no. I don't keep secrets from my husband and I wouldn't want to be in a marriage where my husband keeps secrets from me.

Does that translate into me reporting to him every conversation I have? No.

But I have stopped family members and friends when they start down the "I'd like to tell you this but don't tell your husband" path. I would never agree to not tell my husband anything so it is best that everybody just assume that if they talk to me, he'll find out.As far as a neighbor looking at my written down password and getting onto my computer. They are neighbors. They don't live in my house and they don't jointly own my computer, that desk, or the paper it is written on. When my husband starts rooting around the desk it isn't snooping because it is also his desk.

So your friends/family can't confide in you confidentially because you will automatically tell your husband whatever they tell you?

 

[sbell111]

Should your spouse go to jail for having overheard a conversation that you were having in the home you share with your spouse?

No.

No one is suggesting anyone be compelled to reveal anything.

No one is suggesting anyone be compelled to reveal anything.

You are arguing that a married person does not have the right to keep their personal email communications private from his/her spouse. Do you also believe that about verbal and traditionally-written communications? If you do not, why do you believe that email communications do not deserve the same protections as other communications? Please simply answer my questions rather than continuing to try to twist them.

 

[rigs32]

Okay taking an idea from another part of law. Should the woman be charged with some form of negligence? I mean there are laws where people can be fined for creating an "attractive nusence".

You're mixing metaphors. Attractive nuisance is a civil construct, not something that comes into play in a criminal court. (At least in NY where I am) Besides, should a bar patron be allow to claim that using a beer bottle to hit someone was expected as it was an "attractive nuisance"?

NY's version of this statute allows for a defense that you had permission to access the account. So a spouse that goes in to pay a bill with consent of the other is fine.

 

[SaraJayne]

So your friends/family can't confide in you confidentially because you will automatically tell your husband whatever they tell you?

I don't understand that. If someone specifically ASKS me to keep it private, I will and do. And even if they don't ask me, I usually do, as it isn't any of my DH's business.

 

[GOOFY4DONALD]

I think privacy in a marriage is something that should be negotiated by the couple not the law. As evidenced by this thread people have different comfort levels and that should be taken into consideration.

I have been married 25 years. DH and I would not care if the other looked at their email or Facebook. Sometimes we go in to retrieve an email the other got but we mention to the other what was done (as in honey I got the Verizon email from your account today).

On occasion I have gone into his wallet and he into my pocketbook. Again we mention it. Usually he has cash so if I need it (say for our daughters school) I take it and tell him. He really does not like going into my pocketbook, for some reason he thinks it is mysterious.

DH and I have the same group of friends (mostly my siblings and spouses) so there are no great secrets with us.

The only time we ever gets secretive is at our birthdays, anniversary or Christmas. If we are getting emails about a present or a package delivered, we will tell the other not to open email or the package.

As for mail, if I didn't open it it would not get opened. The only things I don't open are the mail for my MIL. She is in a nursing home and DH handles her finances. So those 2 bills a month he opens and the rest is for me to open or trash.

I totally agree with this post. I have been married for 12 years and we have no privacy or trust issues. My DH has always had my password but he never looked at my emails. I know this because when I decided to plan a surprise trip I changed the password and he never asked (once the surprise is out of the bag I will change it back). I have no secrets from him (except for presents or surprises for him) but I don't tell him everything unless he asks (I doubt he cares to hear about my sister and what guys she's dating this week). I am also the mail opener and bill payer. My DH has 2 CC that are in his name only and not only do I pay them I open them (yes he knows because he tosses them on my PC desk and hasn't paid a CC bill in almost 3 years)... SHHHHHHH!! If I left it up to him they would sit there forever.

 

[GOOFY4DONALD]

I don't understand that. If someone specifically ASKS me to keep it private, I will and do. And even if they don't ask me, I usually do, as it isn't any of my DH's business.

I do this to a degree. If a friend is having marital problems (just for example) and asks me to keep it to myself I will. My DH is not into the personal business whether true of gossip of people that will not effect him. If a relative tells me something that will have a direct impact on me (example a relative finds out they are ill) I will share it with him.

 

[ccgirl]

Just because I am keeping some privacy in my life does not mean I am keeping secrets from him or vice versa. I do not care to hear all his chats about football or whatever. I would not imagine looking at his emails or texts. If you ask me, the person looking is the one with a problem. If I want to know something I would just ask. I would never snoop around for the sake of snooping.

 

[RitaE]

So your friends/family can't confide in you confidentially because you will automatically tell your husband whatever they tell you?

I'm not sure why that gets a sad little blue head shake.
No, my husband and I don't keep secrets from each other - at least not personally. His job requires a security clearance and there are things there that naturally I'm not involved in. We've been married for going on 24 years now and that is one pretty firm rule in our lives.

My relationship with him is the primary relationship in my life. So if my friends and family need a "confidant" and they aren't comfortable with him knowing whatever it is they have to blurt out, then they will have to find somebody else or hire a therapist.

vacy vs. secrets
Just because I am keeping some privacy in my life does not mean I am keeping secrets from him or vice versa. I do not care to hear all his chats about football or whatever. I would not imagine looking at his emails or texts. If you ask me, the person looking is the one with a problem. If I want to know something I would just ask. I would never snoop around for the sake of snooping.

I don't mean to imply otherwise. Just like couples handle money and other big issues differently, doesn't mean our way is the only way it can work. As I said, I simply wouldn't be interested in a marriage where there were all kinds of secrets going on. And I'm not interested in most of my husbands email and facebook crap either. I just wouldn't be comfortable with not being welcome to participate in it if I were interested.