How much privacy do spouse have from each other?

[Planogirl]

I don't bother to hide anything but I don't expect DH to read my emails or posts. I don't think that I'd like it if he did but it's not because I have anything to hide. It just feels invasive to me.

 

[sbell111]

Many people in this thread appear to be taking the position that since they have no problem with their spouse accessing their email, then one spouse accessing the email of another should not be against the law. I think that these people are missing one very important point.

If you give someone permission to do something, then doing it is not a violation. However, if you do not give them permission, it can be.

If I tell my neighbor that he can wander into my house without knocking, then he isn't doing anything wrong by coming on in, even if I'm not home. However, if he wasn't given that express permission, he would be clearly breaking the law.

Similarly, if you permit someone to access your email, all is well. However, if someone accesses your personal email without your permission, a law has been broken.

 

[bicker]

Many people in this thread appear to be taking the position that since they have no problem with their spouse accessing their email, then one spouse accessing the email of another should not be against the law.

What I hear people saying is that privacy within a marriage should be between the husband and the wife; the government shouldn't stick its nose into it. Perhaps the best approach is to make the expectations for privacy part of the marriage contract; that makes as much sense as government trying to impose one set of principles on everyone.

If I tell my neighbor that he can wander into my house without knocking, then he isn't doing anything wrong by coming on in, even if I'm not home.

That's different: Your neighbor isn't part of your marriage (presumably).

 

[RitaE]

sbell111 Many people in this thread appear to be taking the position that since they have no problem with their spouse accessing their email, then one spouse accessing the email of another should not be against the law. I think that these people are missing one very important point.

If you give someone permission to do something, then doing it is not a violation. However, if you do not give them permission, it can be.

If I tell my neighbor that he can wander into my house without knocking, then he isn't doing anything wrong by coming on in, even if I'm not home. However, if he wasn't given that express permission, he would be clearly breaking the law.

Similarly, if you permit someone to access your email, all is well. However, if someone accesses your personal email without your permission, a law has been broken.

Actually yeah - that pretty much is my position. I'm saying that I have no interest in spending taxpayer dollars to prosecute and jail a man who looks at his cheating wife's email utilizing a computer they jointly own and a password that she writes down and keeps in a book next to that computer.

I really have no opinion at all on whether or not people in marriages who maintain separate email accounts have anything to hide from each other anymore than I have an opinion on how your run your joint checking accounts. I know how our marriage works and I know that I wouldn't personally want to be in a marriage where parts of my spouse's life are locked away from me -- but that doesn't mean I speak for everybody. I don't even know you people.

But this particular case? Holy crap - they don't have time to prosecute drug dealers and auto theft and nearly every single State and Local government I know of is claiming they are in a fiscal crises but we're paying them to harass some guy over this????

I find it ridiculous.

 

[ccgirl]

Well to be honest, I really can't remember the last time I even looked at my DHs email accounts but I am on his computer all the time. I really am not that interested in his conversations with his old college friends and his cousins etc.

And yeah, if I started running into a bunch of password protected crap that didn't have to do with his work - I think it would give me an uncomfortable feeling of wanting to know what was going on behind those passwords that had to be hidden from my eyes.

As for my computer - I have a program that stores all my site passwords and he knows how to use that. I showed it to him because I manage all the financial sites and if I were to die an unexpected death he'd need to figure out how to get to the money.

So I think in our case we both do have Privacy in that I don't go deliberately pawing through his stuff and he doesn't as far as I know go through mine. But it isn't privacy that is established by a lock and key, just through our way of doing things.

And I'd never in a million years compare my marriage to my relationship with my co-workers.

My DH and myself share the same laptop. However, each of us has our own user to sign on to the computer. We need the password to do this. He can't even see any of the icons I have on my desktop because he does not have the password.

And for those of us who don't share passwords its the same. Dh and I don't keep our email under lock and key because we want privacy, we keep it under lock and key because neither of us have feel we need to have access to eachothers personal email acct. Its a mutual, non spoken respect we have for eachothers privacy, that extends to snail mail, cell phone voicemail, anything that is ours as individuals. Thats our way of doing things, and it has notihng to do with us hiding things from eachother, or keeping secrets.
I think people (in general) who feel that keeping your email password private means you are hiding things, or keeping secrets from your spouse, have trust issues. Since dh and I trust eachother completely, keeping a password private just isn't an issue for us.

Exactly. My DH and myself have been together for 21 years. When I married him, I agreed to become his partner and we do make a great team. However, we are still individuals as well. I would never look at this texts, mail whatever UNLESS REQUESTED to. I think that is what it comes down to. If not requested, I would respect his privacy. All of our money is joint. Therefore, we both have passwords to the banking websites and the billing websites. I may question him on some purchases (I pay the bills) to ensure they are valid, authorized transactions. But, again, those are for joint accounts. We can both see where every dollar is going. We only have joint credit cards so we can both see what gets charged, and paid. The fact that we have individual and private emails does not mean we are hiding anything.

I was not comparing my marriage relationship with that of my neighbor or coworker, I was comparing the privacy issue.

 

[brerrabbit]

I doubt that it is a generation-specific issue. You're probably in the same generation as my wife and I, but my parents, from the generation prior to ours, had substantial "trust issues", even after 20 years of marriage. I'm sure many of us can also point toward couples in our own generation, as well as in the younger generation, who suffered from "trust issues".

Well, I don't think that's true. On Facebook and other such services, people have control over what they share, both in terms of what they put into the service in the first place, and in terms of security they apply to restrict who can view that information, if they choose to assert that control. So it isn't really a matter of sharing information or not; it's a matter of the person who's information it is having the ability to choose.

I cannot account for that inconsistency... I just don't think it leads to the conclusion you asserted that it did.

First: Not every person will be in both columns of your list. Second, practically no one actually provides you "every" detail - in each case they provide you the details that they choose to provide, which may or may not be more than is advisable, but isn't absolute, as you assert it to be.

Yes people have control of what they share, who they share it with, and when they share it. I don't have the time or inclanation to copy the hundreds of pages of Facebook that show that at least in my social circle people are careless with the information they provide and who they provide it to. My examples are not meant to be absolute by any means and I don't think I asserted that. However from the sample size I have available to me, my Facebook account and the friends I have I can conclude that people are very inconsistant between the amount of data they post and the belief that they are somehow not exposing their lives.

I live in a smaller town, at least it was up until 5 to 6 years ago, and we know a lot of people. A lot of the old fashion gossip that went on at the grocery store or the local PTA meetings has now taken to the net instead. Sometimes no mater how much security, warnings and instructions you give about privacy, many still ignore them and share to much information.

As to not being able to account for the inconsistency you mentioned and the conclusion I am drawing, there is no real conclusion merely my observation of actual occurances I have encountered.

As far as trust in marriage, yes it's an issue that has persisted for years and many marraiges have a lack of trust. However in my world, again limited in scope trust is not an issue for my wife and I and many of our friends who have been married a similar amount of time. The idea is in the current environment we live in with a divorce rate at 50% or greater the number of couples who do trust one another is declining significantly. I can only guess but those on this board as well as people around the country who have been married longer probably have fewer trust issues than those who are younger and been married for less years.

 

[RitaE]

I was not comparing my marriage relationship with that of my neighbor or coworker, I was comparing the privacy issue.

But again - all that is indicative of the way you and your husband have agreed your marriage will work. That's up to you to decide. The question here is what is legally appropriate. The computer and the password were right there in the man's house. He didn't stalk her. He didn't hire a Private Investigator or hacking team of computer experts. He utilized a password that she wrote down and left sitting there by the computer they jointly own.

If my neighbor broke in to my computer system read my private accounts, I'd expect legal action. If my co-workers did that, I'd also expect legal action because I have firm expectations that they stay out of my Private life.

If my husband sits down at the desk in his own house, uses his own computer, and reads the password his wife wrote down right there for him to see - I simply cannot see this being a matter that the Police and Legal System need to involve themselves in and frankly I find it kind of offensive that this lady expects the Public to protect her from being a cheating idiotic floozy in respect to her marriage.

 

[PaulaSB12]

- Detroit, Michigan, computer technician Leon Walker faces a jury trial in February for allegedly hacking into his then-wife's e-mail account.

"She'd asked me to read her e-mails before," Walker said in an interview this week. "She gave me the password before. She didn't hide it."

Walker says the e-mails revealed that Clara Walker, who has been married three times, was having an affair with her second husband.

Walker, the third husband, shared the documents with his wife's first husband, who then used them to file an emergency motion to obtain custody of his son with Clara Walker. Leon Walker said he and the first husband were both concerned because, according to Walker, husband No. 2 had been previously arrested on a domestic violence charge.

"He took action with the courts to have himself protected and I took action with the court to have my daughter protected," Walker said.
Illegal to read spouse's emails?


When Clara Walker learned how the e-mails made their way into court, she complained to police.

This has nothing to do with privacy she had already let him read her emails, it has everything to do with an idiot woman taking two small children to a man with a conviction for violence in front of a child would you want your ex spouse exposing your child to that.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/29/michigan.hacking.spouse/index.html?iref=NS1

 

[sbell111]

What I hear people saying is that privacy within a marriage should be between the husband and the wife; the government shouldn't stick its nose into it. Perhaps the best approach is to make the expectations for privacy part of the marriage contract; that makes as much sense as government trying to impose one set of principles on everyone.

Privacy within a marriage IS between a man and a wife, as it is between any two people. The man and wife are free to allow each other to have open access to each other's email. However, the opposite is not true. The mere presence of a marriage does not terminate a person's right to establish a personal, private email account any more than it forbids that person from having private conversations with his/her family and friends.

The government is not 'imposing a set of principles on everyone' as you argue. It's protecting the basic rights of individuals. Just because we are all free to give up these rights at will, doesn't mean that anyone should be able to take them from us without our consent.

 

[sbell111]

- Detroit, Michigan, computer technician Leon Walker faces a jury trial in February for allegedly hacking into his then-wife's e-mail account.

"She'd asked me to read her e-mails before," Walker said in an interview this week. "She gave me the password before. She didn't hide it."

Walker says the e-mails revealed that Clara Walker, who has been married three times, was having an affair with her second husband.

Walker, the third husband, shared the documents with his wife's first husband, who then used them to file an emergency motion to obtain custody of his son with Clara Walker. Leon Walker said he and the first husband were both concerned because, according to Walker, husband No. 2 had been previously arrested on a domestic violence charge.

"He took action with the courts to have himself protected and I took action with the court to have my daughter protected," Walker said.
Illegal to read spouse's emails?

When Clara Walker learned how the e-mails made their way into court, she complained to police.

This has nothing to do with privacy she had already let him read her emails, it has everything to do with an idiot woman taking two small children to a man with a conviction for violence in front of a child would you want your ex spouse exposing your child to that.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/29/michigan.hacking.spouse/index.html?iref=NS1

Why he did it speaks to his motivation, not to whether accessing the emails was legal.

Regarding the bolded bits, I think that it depends on the context of the previous permissions.

If my neighbor needed to borrow a tool and I wasn't home, I might tell him to go ahead and enter my garage to get the tool. However, that does not give him permission to enter my garage any time that he wants in perpetuity.

Similarly, if my wife were to phone me and ask me to go into her email account to get her some info, I would not automatically have the legal right to go in and read her emails whenever I wanted, even though I now had the password to her email account AND she had previously allowed me to access her account.

 

[wvjules]

Why he did it speaks to his motivation, not to whether accessing the emails was legal.

Regarding the bolded bits, I think that it depends on the context of the previous permissions.

If my neighbor needed to borrow a tool and I wasn't home, I might tell him to go ahead and enter my garage to get the tool. However, that does not give him permission to enter my garage any time that he wants in perpetuity.

Similarly, if my wife were to phone me and ask me to go into her email account to get her some info, I would not automatically have the legal right to go in and read her emails whenever I wanted, even though I now had the password to her email account AND she had previously allowed me to access her account.

Agreed.

The ex-husband didn't have permission AT THAT TIME to access her email account. Just because she let him do it a million times before that doesn't automatically give him the right to do it whenever he wants.

 

[ccgirl]

But again - all that is indicative of the way you and your husband have agreed your marriage will work. That's up to you to decide. The question here is what is legally appropriate. The computer and the password were right there in the man's house. He didn't stalk her. He didn't hire a Private Investigator or hacking team of computer experts. He utilized a password that she wrote down and left sitting there by the computer they jointly own.

If my neighbor broke in to my computer system read my private accounts, I'd expect legal action. If my co-workers did that, I'd also expect legal action because I have firm expectations that they stay out of my Private life.

If my husband sits down at the desk in his own house, uses his own computer, and reads the password his wife wrote down right there for him to see - I simply cannot see this being a matter that the Police and Legal System need to involve themselves in and frankly I find it kind of offensive that this lady expects the Public to protect her from being a cheating idiotic floozy in respect to her marriage.

What if the neighbor came in your house and saw your password laying there? Are they allowed to access your emails? Privacy is privacy regardless who is on the other end. Now, if you give your spouse, friend, neighbor, coworker permission to access your emails that is fine. However, in this case, the spouse did not have permission.

Why he did it speaks to his motivation, not to whether accessing the emails was legal.

Regarding the bolded bits, I think that it depends on the context of the previous permissions.

If my neighbor needed to borrow a tool and I wasn't home, I might tell him to go ahead and enter my garage to get the tool. However, that does not give him permission to enter my garage any time that he wants in perpetuity.

Similarly, if my wife were to phone me and ask me to go into her email account to get her some info, I would not automatically have the legal right to go in and read her emails whenever I wanted, even though I now had the password to her email account AND she had previously allowed me to access her account.

Very well put. Just becuase my DH asked me for information in his mail at one point, I would never assume that gave me free reign to snoop any time I wanted.

Agreed.

The ex-husband didn't have permission AT THAT TIME to access her email account. Just because she let him do it a million times before that doesn't automatically give him the right to do it whenever he wants.

Exactly.

 

[jenm2878]

My DH and I respect each other's privacy with e-mail, mail, etc. If he was so inclined to rummage through my e-mail or phone, he's welcome to it, but I appreciate the fact that he respects my privacy, as I do his. Unless it's a bill I won't even open up mail addressed to him.

If he were to start snooping through my stuff, I would be more concerned about what was causing him to feel like he needed to do so.

 

[bicker]

However from the sample size I have available to me, my Facebook account and the friends I have I can conclude that people are very inconsistant between the amount of data they post and the belief that they are somehow not exposing their lives.

Inconsistent, meaning that they have control. I agree.

The idea is in the current environment we live in with a divorce rate at 50% or greater the number of couples who do trust one another is declining significantly.

The divorce rate hasn't moved much in a generation.

I can only guess but those on this board as well as people around the country who have been married longer probably have fewer trust issues than those who are younger and been married for less years.

I can agree with most of this, but it is very different than saying that different generations exhibit different characteristics, implying that it is something inherent in the generation itself. There is no reason to believe that today's teenagers won't exhibit the exact same characteristics, in this regard, as we do, when they get to be our age.

 

[bicker]

The mere presence of a marriage does not terminate a person's right to establish a personal, private email account

Uh, that's the matter in dispute. You're just restating your preference.

any more than it forbids that person from having private conversations with his/her family and friends.

What law, regarding conversations, are you referring to?

I think you're confusing what you feel is righteous (respect everyone's privacy) with what's legal. While I agree with you about the ethic (again: respect everyone's privacy), the dispute here is about what role government should have.

The government is not 'imposing a set of principles on everyone' as you argue. It's protecting the basic rights of individuals.

Actually, in this case, it's balancing basic rights of individual and married couples. You want, in this case, the balance to be struck on the individuals side of the scale, instead of on the married couple side of the scale.

Typically in such cases, I think the best answer is actually somewhere in the middle.

Just because we are all free to give up these rights at will, doesn't mean that anyone should be able to take them from us without our consent.

The question is what rights do we forfeit when we get married, in return for other rights we gain. If you think that you don't sacrifice some of your rights when you get married, you may be in for a rude awakening.

 

[eliza61]

Many people in this thread appear to be taking the position that since they have no problem with their spouse accessing their email, then one spouse accessing the email of another should not be against the law. I think that these people are missing one very important point.

If you give someone permission to do something, then doing it is not a violation. However, if you do not give them permission, it can be.

If I tell my neighbor that he can wander into my house without knocking, then he isn't doing anything wrong by coming on in, even if I'm not home. However, if he wasn't given that express permission, he would be clearly breaking the law.

Similarly, if you permit someone to access your email, all is well. However, if someone accesses your personal email without your permission, a law has been broken.

I think there is a huge difference between your spouse and your neighbor. LOL.

As Bicker mention, the issue with married folks is whether or not the same privacy issues can be applied.

Generally our society views married people as sort of 1 unit sharing most things.

 

[luvmy3]

I think there is a huge difference between your spouse and your neighbor. LOL.

As Bicker mention, the issue with married folks is whether or not the same privacy issues can be applied.

Generally our society views married people as sort of 1 unit sharing most things.

But if the 2 parties of the married couple each has an individual email acct, that isn't sharing anything.

 

[sbell111]

Uh, that's the matter in dispute. You're just restating your preference.

Actually, I was restating the position of the State of Michigan.

What law, regarding conversations, are you referring to?

Is it your position that married individuals do not have the right to have private conversations with their families and friends?

I think you're confusing what you feel is righteous (respect everyone's privacy) with what's legal. While I agree with you about the ethic (again: respect everyone's privacy), the dispute here is about what role government should have.

Most would not have a problem with the government imposing and enforcing laws that protect an individual's privacy.

The question is what rights do we forfeit when we get married, in return for other rights we gain. If you think that you don't sacrifice some of your rights when you get married, you may be in for a rude awakening.

Let's ignore for a moment that you are making some pretty strange assumptions about me, please explain why you feel that married individuals should lose all rights to privacy? You are taking the strange position that a married person should not be allowed to have any communications that are private from his/her spouse. What is your argument that this complete and total stripping away of an individual's privacy should be legally enforced?

 

[wvjules]

Actually, I was restating the position of the State of Michigan.

I want to lock you two in a room together sometime.

 

[sbell111]

I think there is a huge difference between your spouse and your neighbor. LOL.

As Bicker mention, the issue with married folks is whether or not the same privacy issues can be applied.

Generally our society views married people as sort of 1 unit sharing most things.

Let's see if that position works with regard to communication.

Does a married individual have a right to a private conversation with a family or friend without the knowledge of his/her spouse?

Does a married individual have the right to personal correspondence? Can he/she write and mail a letter to a friend or family member without disclosing it's contents to his/her spouse? Must he/she even notify his/her spouse of the existence of the sent letter?

If you believe that a married person has the right to have a private conversation or send a personal letter without disclosing that information to his/her spouse, why would that person not have the right to keep his/her email communication private?