How much financial responsibility should a 20 year old have?

[Hannathy]

It does stink. And I don't want to tear the OP apart for doing it because apparently the government allows it, but it does stink for the rest of us.

I hope everyone involved in this situation realizes how lucky they are that the girl is currently getting mostly a free ride.

Yeah I was wondering how this was also with 2 parents. Doesn't the father HAVE to list his income? How is she getting a free ride? My DD certainly didn't get a free ride and when we did the FAFSA last year our income was zero! My DH had been out of work for a couple of years so our savings were depleted also and she didn't get a free ride. She has a lot of loans and we took out a parent plus loan.

So how is this I would really like to know?

 

[mhsjax]

I was thinking the same thing.

DH and I both worked at least 30 hrs per week during the school year and neither of our parents gave us $1 toward our educations.


If parents are willing and able to help their children out with school, that's great. But it's definitely not something that should be taken for granted.

Wow, I guess I grew up in a different time or area, but all of our parents paid for school, yes we had part time jobs, but the parents paid for the education.

I think that it is the parents responsibility to pay for school, if at all possible. If not then there are ways for kids to go to school. I just see so much of the old, I walked to school in the snow, barefoot both ways, on these boards. Makes me wonder.

 

[MrsPete]

Yeah I was wondering how this was also with 2 parents. Doesn't the father HAVE to list his income? How is she getting a free ride? My DD certainly didn't get a free ride and when we did the FAFSA last year our income was zero! My DH had been out of work for a couple of years so our savings were depleted also and she didn't get a free ride. She has a lot of loans and we took out a parent plus loan.

So how is this I would really like to know?

It does happen. I'm thinking about a couple kids I knew -- twins -- who BOTH earned full-ride scholarships to very prestigious colleges AND also got large Pell Grants. The kicker: Their father owns his own business and is very well-off. They were excellent students and good kids, but they never struggled in any way through high school -- especially financially. How'd this happen? Their parents were divorced, and after age 18 only their mother's income was considered for FAFSA. She only worked part-time.

It's frustrating to people like me who are going to get NOTHING from the FAFSA, but I hate the system, not the people who are using it -- they're just taking advantage of what's out there. If I qualified for that type of deal, I would use it too.

 

[xCourxCorex]

Yeah I was wondering how this was also with 2 parents. Doesn't the father HAVE to list his income? How is she getting a free ride? My DD certainly didn't get a free ride and when we did the FAFSA last year our income was zero! My DH had been out of work for a couple of years so our savings were depleted also and she didn't get a free ride. She has a lot of loans and we took out a parent plus loan.

So how is this I would really like to know?

My mom always fills out my FAFSA, so I don't know if this is definitely 100% true, but I was under the impression that you only list the parent you live with most of the time. My parents are seperated and I live with my mom, so I believe we just report the income of the household I live in majority of the time (my mom & stepdad).
I may be wrong but I think that's how it is determined.. anyone else with more FAFSA knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[blanq]

This thread is interesting and I am paying attention as DS is a HS senior and we are moving into adult territory so need to ponder some of the issues being discussed here.

We have tried to instill money management in DS since he was small. When he got allowance, a certain portion went to spend, give and save. He got his first real job last spring, his Junior year, at Menards, and he continues to work there. DH and I have been so pleased with how he is handling his money. He immediately opened a teen checking account and a savings account. His check gets DD into his checking with a specific amount auto-transferred to his savings every week. He currently has over $2K in checking and $1K in savings. He seems to think long and hard before he buys something, so we like he takes a step back before shelling out dough. He does spend money when out with friends (movies, eating out, etc). He NEVER asks for money and just seems to understand he has an income and should be responsible for things he wants to buy.

That said, I think we are pretty generous parents. His basic needs are met. We pay his car insurance (he has to pay the difference between the good student discount and and the not good student discount if/when he has less than a B average), buy his clothes, take care of special things he may need for work or school. He does not have a car. We are considering giving him mine when he graduates and then I would get a new ride at that point. He is planning on community college for his first two years of college, and living at home. We plan on paying his tuition, food, health care...the basics. He will need to pay for his car insurance, gas and school books. He plans on continuing his work at Menards, and hopes he can work FT in the summers. He is talking about opening up at 401K, and seems to understand the importance of having an emergency account. He does not have an entitlement mentality, so DH and I feel okay about continuing our support. We really would like to provide him with a good base that will minimize his taking on debt for college, if possible.

 

[richmond282]

I haven't read all of the responses, but I don't think you are being unreasonable. I was married when I was 20 so my DH and I paid for EVERYTHING ourselves. It was tough and we didn't have ny extras, but it made us appreciate things more.

 

[jking6]

My DD is a freshman at an elite college $45,000 a year. She was Valedictorian of her class. Even with a great scholarship and maximum loans for her, my DH and I are paying $995.00 a month for her tuition. She gets 4 hours a week of work study so approx $52.00 a week in income. Our annual salary is about $50,000 a year with my husband working full time and part time job on weekends. My job has just been cut to part time as one of our offices closed. We are scraping to make this happen but it is her dream to be a pharmacist and we will do everything we can to help her.

 

[Agri]

Nope. Not being too hard. My mom treated me the same way - anything extra, I had to pay for myself. I chose not to work, so I ended up finding other ways to earn money (legally!). I sold things on ebay, played a game where I could earn items and then sell them to other players, etc. It wasn't a traditional job, but I did earn my own money for anything deemed 'extra' by her.

Extras were usually anything beyond basic wardrobe replacements and any entertainment which she was not a part of. (Like I could replace a worn-out pair of shoes with a new pair of shoes, but not multiple pairs of new shoes. If my one pair of jeans split, she'd replace that pair, not buy me multiples to replace it. Any movie that I didn't see with her, I had to pay for.)

 

[Frye7127]

My mom always fills out my FAFSA, so I don't know if this is definitely 100% true, but I was under the impression that you only list the parent you live with most of the time. My parents are seperated and I live with my mom, so I believe we just report the income of the household I live in majority of the time (my mom & stepdad).
I may be wrong but I think that's how it is determined.. anyone else with more FAFSA knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong!

This is correct. Her mother has primary physical custody and they have shared legal custody. Because of this, her mother fills out the form. I have never seen it, so I don't know if she includes her stepfather's income or not. We were under the impression that the mother and father had to fill out the form together, but apparently is which home she sleeps the most # of nights a month. So, for this reason, her mother fills out the form and she has only started working again this year after 17 years and in a completely different field than she did when her and my husband were married. She has two more children (which I think goes into the computation of her aid). Their household income has been very, very low, so the reason for the huge aid.

As far as getting no aid, we will be there with you all who got absolutely no FAFSA in about 8 years with our DS. It seems completely wrong that when you try to do all of the right things, save a little and live below your means, you are punished. Blow all you have, live bigger than your checkbook or paycheck can cover, never think of tomorrow, and won't work when you have the opportunity to better your family's financial picture, and you can get all of the aid you want and need. Our DD's other brothers will get a free ride too, I am sure, if they go to college. We will be paying out our rears along with the majority to get our dear boy through college. We are not working the system, it is the way it is set up. Another thing is you can't establish independence either until the age of 24 (I believe) except in extreme circumstances. Just think of the child that gets absolutely no help from the parents or kicked out at 18, and the parents refuse to fill out the FAFSA...they are out there lost in a sea of beaurocracy trying to figure a way to get through by themselves - I know it can be done, just tougher than it would otherwise be as a lot of those children would eligible for aid and cannot get it.

Yes, we do realize, including DD, how fortunate we are that DD is getting assistance. We are very thankful, believe me. We are not wealthy by any stretch...we just work hard and do the best we can with what we have. I won't even go into the dynamics of our lives the past 18 years, but let's just say our checkbook is thankful for the break for a change and thankful for the "financial contribution " made by her mom, even though it is indirectly. If it weren't for this, her mom would not help out financially at all, it would fall to us to make sure we got daughter through college. Short of filling out the FAFSA, that is all her mom does in regards to her college. She won't get it next year, I am sure. So, DH and I will be up to bat again, provided DSD has done her part.

It is so much deeper than I am willing to explain here, but believe me I understand your frustration and anger. I have been dealing with it for 18 years (just on different levels, same concept).

 

[Rafiki31]

I think by letting her coast with everything covered she has gotten that sense of entitlement, and THAT is the problem.How cna you be 20 and have never had a job? That is just crazy to me, she needs to learn the value of working for your own money, of performing menial tasks you may not like because it is your JOB. By the time you are in college, you should know the value of hard work and the value of money. The lack of financial understanding is what leads to huge amounts of credit card debt later in life. The sense of entitlement and the "I deserve this" is going to cost a lot more later. When you guys do eventuall cut her off and she starts charging up a storm who is going to bail her out? She has no sense to budget or earn.

What if something happened to your husband?
What is going to happen when its time for a wedding? Guess how much the sense of entitlement will cost you then! Better set an amount you will allow and dont budge.

She has no sense of financial responsibility and this is going to seriously impact her life and any relationships. I predict some divorces in her future if she doesnt figure out how to get a job.

 

[mhsjax]

This thread is interesting and I am paying attention as DS is a HS senior and we are moving into adult territory so need to ponder some of the issues being discussed here.

We have tried to instill money management in DS since he was small. When he got allowance, a certain portion went to spend, give and save. He got his first real job last spring, his Junior year, at Menards, and he continues to work there. DH and I have been so pleased with how he is handling his money. He immediately opened a teen checking account and a savings account. His check gets DD into his checking with a specific amount auto-transferred to his savings every week. He currently has over $2K in checking and $1K in savings. He seems to think long and hard before he buys something, so we like he takes a step back before shelling out dough. He does spend money when out with friends (movies, eating out, etc). He NEVER asks for money and just seems to understand he has an income and should be responsible for things he wants to buy.

That said, I think we are pretty generous parents. His basic needs are met. We pay his car insurance (he has to pay the difference between the good student discount and and the not good student discount if/when he has less than a B average), buy his clothes, take care of special things he may need for work or school. He does not have a car. We are considering giving him mine when he graduates and then I would get a new ride at that point. He is planning on community college for his first two years of college, and living at home. We plan on paying his tuition, food, health care...the basics. He will need to pay for his car insurance, gas and school books. He plans on continuing his work at Menards, and hopes he can work FT in the summers. He is talking about opening up at 401K, and seems to understand the importance of having an emergency account. He does not have an entitlement mentality, so DH and I feel okay about continuing our support. We really would like to provide him with a good base that will minimize his taking on debt for college, if possible.

This is pretty much the way I feel. I want to pay for their education, but I won't spoil them and I won't (if at all possible) make them work almost full time or full time to pay for their own school. None of them are 16 yet and I don't see a car in their future, and if I do, it will be shared(don't know how that will work yet). They aren't spoiled now, I do buy their clothes but I set a certain amount for things, if they want more expensive or designer, then they pay the difference. They get way less than most of their friends as far as material things, but I will pay for school if at all possible, I hate for them to take on debt when just starting out.

 

[MamaJessie]

My brother went to college and did the whole thing without any help. He worked every break he had and tutored while at college. He still did very well in school, graduating from the electrical engineering department magna cum laude. No reason she can't work.

 

[MrsPete]

I haven't read all of the responses, but I don't think you are being unreasonable. I was married when I was 20 so my DH and I paid for EVERYTHING ourselves. It was tough and we didn't have ny extras, but it made us appreciate things more.

I did too, but I have to admit that in the 1980s when I was in college, this was a whole lot more do-able than it is today. My tuition-books-dorm-meal plan were about $5000/year. Because I came from a low-income, low-working, high-alcoholic family, I got some financial aid -- but not as much as I should've been entitled to because of the age-of-independence-thing.

And I still had to work hard. After my freshman year I ALWAYS worked more than one job. My studies were ALWAYS secondary to working -- they had to be, or I wouldn't have been able to stay in school. Sometimes I did without necessities so that I could save for the next semester's tuition (wearing shoes with holes in the soles is the single thing that stands out for me). But I always felt I was doing "okay" as long as I avoided taking out loans.

In all honesty, I had to work harder than was healthy, and I was ALWAYS concerned about money. I'd like my daughters to put forth effort, but I don't want them to work as hard as I had to.

Today it's harder. College costs are higher, scholarships are harder to come by, and I know that my kids won't get any financial aid. It's not really completely fair to say, "I did it, so can you."

As far as getting no aid, we will be there with you all who got absolutely no FAFSA in about 8 years with our DS . . . We are not working the system, it is the way it is set up.

Yep, the process has multiple problems. It's a big, complicated system with unfair cracks and loopholes.

I think by letting her coast with everything covered she has gotten that sense of entitlement, and THAT is the problem.How cna you be 20 and have never had a job? That is just crazy to me, she needs to learn the value of working for your own money, of performing menial tasks you may not like because it is your JOB. By the time you are in college, you should know the value of hard work and the value of money. The lack of financial understanding is what leads to huge amounts of credit card debt later in life. The sense of entitlement and the "I deserve this" is going to cost a lot more later. When you guys do eventuall cut her off and she starts charging up a storm who is going to bail her out? She has no sense to budget or earn.

What if something happened to your husband?
What is going to happen when its time for a wedding? Guess how much the sense of entitlement will cost you then! Better set an amount you will allow and dont budge.

She has no sense of financial responsibility and this is going to seriously impact her life and any relationships. I predict some divorces in her future if she doesnt figure out how to get a job.

This is good sense. She does need to work. I know a man (he works with my husband) who literally never had a job until after he earned his doctorate degree. He never worked at a menial labor job, never worked with the public. It shows in his lack of ability to connect with others.

Perhaps you'd consider laying out YOUR next year's contribution like this: We will pay X amount towards your college education ONLY AFTER you have worked all summer and have saved $1000 towards your tuition. That's only about 4 weeks' full-time work at minimum wage. She could work all summer, save half of what she makes and easily do this. It's be good for her work ethic.

A nice, happy medium is best. I'm remembering a high school friend of mine whose (wealthy) father insisted that he prove he understood the value of a dollar. His father insisted that his son had to work and pay for his first year of college (only one very prestigious school would do) and after that he'd pay the rest. He tried, but it was just more than he could do. He tried to bargain with his dad to let him attend a different university, which would've meant he could live at home -- no. One day he disappeared. He reappeared the next day, explaining that he was unable to live up to his father's demands, so he'd gone to enlist in the military (a good choice, of course, but not one that you want your child to feel forced into). I don't know what became of him, but I do hope that he went on to earn his eduation with his GI bill benefits.

You're looking for that happy medium. Right now your daugther's not engaged enough in the financial aspect of her education. The boy I described was forced to be too engaged with his. I really think earning/saving $1000 over the course of the summer is a fair medium number.

I'm confused by college kids today. When I was in school EVERYONE had a summer job lined up ahead of time. If we could, we picked up a seasonal job at Christmas. We all started searching early because we wanted to get a jump on the jobs. Today so many of my previous high-school students come back to visit me, and when I ask, "So what're you doing this summer?" the answer is usually NOT a work-related answer. They're borrowing against their futures rather than working now. We're already in a bad cycle: Young couples can't save for their children's educations because they're paying off their own student's loans, are waiting to begin saving for their retirement . . . which means that their kids end up with loans too, so they'll be unable to save for their kids, unable to save for their retirements . . . Skipping work during college breaks is only going to make this problem worse.

 

[tvguy]

As far as getting no aid, we will be there with you all who got absolutely no FAFSA in about 8 years with our DS.

Let's not discourage parents of children heading to college.
Every college student is eligible for $4,000 in financial aid a year. Only rules are they must be full time students, must not have been convicted on drug charges, and if male, must register with the Selective Service.
So, your son will get at least $16,000 over 4 years, more if they raise the cap. And $4,000 a year more for every year he continues past 4.
Now, to be clear, FAFSA sees no difference between a grant, a scholarship, and a loan. So, yes, it's true, you should not plan on free money, you should plan on a loan. My son's tuition so far has totaled $200,000, and my payments are $500 a month. I can extend the term and cut the payment to $250 if I want to. There is no free lunch, but you've had 18 years to save.

 

[bunny]

Let's not discourage parents of children heading to college.
Every college student is eligible for $4,000 in financial aid a year. Only rules are they must be full time students, must not have been convicted on drug charges, and if male, must register with the Selective Service.
So, your son will get at least $16,000 over 4 years, more if they raise the cap. And $4,000 a year more for every year he continues past 4.
Now, to be clear, FAFSA sees no difference between a grant, a scholarship, and a loan. So, yes, it's true, you should not plan on free money, you should plan on a loan. My son's tuition so far has totaled $200,000, and my payments are $500 a month. I can extend the term and cut the payment to $250 if I want to. There is no free lunch, but you've had 18 years to save.

This doesn't make sense. If you are only paying $500 a month it would take 30 + years to pay this off. Obviously you didn't borrow $200,000.

 

[coconutprincess]

In the world of great injustices...... you are doing the right thing.

My brother is 2 years younger. We went to the exact same college, and I graduated in less time. I ALWAYS had to work, from the time I was 17 and could drive. Our parents paid for more of his education than mine, and they are now paying for his MBA. My brother, never worked. I remember him coming home flipping out one day in college cause my parents made him get a job. Screaming how unfair it was and he couldn't handle it.

Now we are 31 and 29. But there is a really big difference between us now, I'm harder working, much more motivated, etc. He doesn't understand working hard, earning your dues, and expects things be given to him on a silver platter.

So you go! I think you are doing great! At least in my situation, having to work and help pay for school made me a better person! I think encouraging her to take responsibility of working would make her a better person down the line.

 

[christineann]

As an employer, I would be very cautious about hiring someone who has never had a job or any financial responsibility, even if he/she has a degree.

As always, great advice from Mrs. Pete.

 

[bluesaturn]

Let's not discourage parents of children heading to college.
Every college student is eligible for $4,000 in financial aid a year. Only rules are they must be full time students, must not have been convicted on drug charges, and if male, must register with the Selective Service.
So, your son will get at least $16,000 over 4 years, more if they raise the cap. And $4,000 a year more for every year he continues past 4.
Now, to be clear, FAFSA sees no difference between a grant, a scholarship, and a loan. So, yes, it's true, you should not plan on free money, you should plan on a loan. My son's tuition so far has totaled $200,000, and my payments are $500 a month. I can extend the term and cut the payment to $250 if I want to. There is no free lunch, but you've had 18 years to save.

I assume you are referring to $4000 in loans? The problem is parents with kids not yet in college might read what you wrote and assume they are handing out $4000 a year to every kid, free money. I hope they don't assume that, but there are a lot of myths about financial aid. I think parents greatly overestimate how much financial aid their child will receive. I think some parents need to be discouraged a little bit, so they take saving for the first 18 years a little more seriously.

 

[Hannathy]

I assume you are referring to $4000 in loans? The problem is parents with kids not yet in college might read what you wrote and assume they are handing out $4000 a year to every kid, free money. I hope they don't assume that, but there are a lot of myths about financial aid. I think parents greatly overestimate how much financial aid their child will receive. I think some parents need to be discouraged a little bit, so they take saving for the first 18 years a little more seriously.

I agree and even if you are low income there isn't much more. Like I said my DH had been out of work for several years so we were out of savings, getting by on part time work we both could find and still my DD got not much more above this, most of which was work study money. If she didn't get an academic scholarship from the college and a few scholarships from high school she would not be able to go where she is and live there. She has a lot of loans and we took a Parent Plus one also. There isn't a lot of money even if you have none coming in, let alone a fairly decent income.