How is MK with no Legacy FP?

[pilferk]

Yes, that is my opinion, or theory, or whatever you want to call it, but it is nothing more than that. At this point, most everyone's opinion on something like this is based on speculation more than anything else.

But, here's the main reason I feel this way. Several people on these boards have cited Disney executives saying that one of their main objectives with the whole MyMagic + project is to encourage guests to spend as much of their trip as possible on Disney property. One way to do that is to get guests to buy multiple day Disney tickets in advance, and a way to encourage them to do that is to tell them that once they have tickets, they can establish an MDE account, link those tickets to their accounts, and make FP+ reservations. Disney can use their relationships with travel agents and area hotels to get this message to their customers.

I don't expect offsite guests to be able to make reservations as early as onsite guests, but it would still be before they arrive at the park. Maybe 30 days for offsite compared to 60 for onsite.

The other thing is that the system being used right now with legions of offsite guests trying to make FP+ reservations is unnecessarily labor intensive and also inconvenient and aggravating for guests. I see it as a temporary stopgap only. I think they want the kiosks in the park to be used for people to make changes, not for hundreds of guests to inundate as soon as the park opens.

Time will tell if I am right about this. But I will be surprised if today's model is the final one for offsite guests.

The ONE reason I can see for disney not allowing off site rebooking is this: it is rife for potential abuse, if one were so inclined.

Right now, on site guest ability to prebooked is linked to both the duration of your linked ticket AND your resort stays beginning and end dates. In other words, if you have a 6 day ticket and a 7 day resort stay, you can make fp+ ressies starting on your resort check in day. You can make 6 days worth throughout any of the 7 days of your stay.

If you were off site...suddenly one limiting factor disappears. You can now prebook any time from the moment you link your ticket for 60 days forward ( or whatever limit the decide appropriate)...since disney has no idea when you will actually arrive.

See the problem? That off site ticket holder could, say, book 6 days worth of fp+ and then cancel, day by day, literally right before their first fp+ becomes active, and choose another day n the future to make ressies again. Sure, the capacity would be dumped back into the system, real time, but it would still cause artificial shortages for prebook sand even early same day guests.

It doesn't provide a guest benefit to do this...at least not one I see. But it could be done ust for kicks/malice...and could be done virtually forever until that linked ticket is finally used at the turnstiles.

It's likely not a huge issue, but it's one they need to address.

 

[Laketravis]

The ONE reason I can see for disney not allowing off site rebooking is this: it is rife for potential abuse, if one were so inclined.

Right now, on site guest ability to prebooked is linked to both the duration of your linked ticket AND your resort stays beginning and end dates. In other words, if you have a 6 day ticket and a 7 day resort stay, you can make fp+ ressies starting on your resort check in day. You can make 6 days worth throughout any of the 7 days of your stay.

If you were off site...suddenly one limiting factor disappears. You can now prebook any time from the moment you link your ticket for 60 days forward ( or whatever limit the decide appropriate)...since disney has no idea when you will actually arrive.

See the problem? That off site ticket holder could, say, book 6 days worth of fp+ and then cancel, day by day, literally right before their first fp+ becomes active, and choose another day n the future to make ressies again. Sure, the capacity would be dumped back into the system, real time, but it would still cause artificial shortages for prebook sand even early same day guests.

It doesn't provide a guest benefit to do this...at least not one I see. But it could be done ust for kicks/malice...and could be done virtually forever until that linked ticket is finally used at the turnstiles.

It's likely not a huge issue, but it's one they need to address.

Not an issue. They've already figured out how to do it for AP holders.

 

[pilferk]

so much for the notion that FP+ is going to drive people away

Not really indicative one way or the other.

The info on the system, and specifically the end dates of legacy fp, were not well circulated enough, or timely enough, to effect trip booking made anywhere from 4 to 12 months ago. In essence, there wasn't enough information to drive anyone away ( or toward) for the trips people are taking right now.

Any effect ( or no effect) would be impossible to judge until this time next year, really.

 

[pilferk]

But, three seconds per guest should be plenty. That gives you 40 guests per minute (20 at each scanner), or 2400 guests per hour. Even if 3/4ths of a ride's total capacity were devoted to FP+, you'd need an attraction that could move north of 3,000 people per hour before the scanners were the bottleneck. There are only a handful of attractions that can hit that number, and it seems doubtful that that many people would be using FP+ on those.

http://crooksinwdw.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/theoreticaloperational-hourly-ride-capacity-at-wdw/

Theoretically? Sure. But also keep in mind that's not constant, since the person running the checkpoint is, at times, also the person clearing standby. So there are pauses for both that, and for capacity/ confusion/ explanation/ personnel issues. I'd guess their actual throughput is somewhat south of the theoretical number you calculated.

But the cms operating the attractions, and running the checkpoints, were noticing the difference and, to a man (10+ cms), were "blaming" this for the backups, and saying it slowed them down.

Again, I'm only passing along the feedback they gave me when I asked them about the new system being implemented...

We can theory craft why they are "wrong", but it's the thing they are noticing most.

 

[pilferk]

Disney is now managing queues based solely on attraction capacity, getting as close to the perfect JIT model as possible; as soon as a seat is available, a guest is available for that seat.

Add delays at FP Kiosks due to dramatic increases in transaction times and delays at attraction Touchpoints due to glitches and misunderstandings, and this will resulting in increased external (i.e. visible) queues.

Throw in the guests who have already used up their 3 FP's for the day and are now milling around the park wondering what to do next.

Those conditions will certainly cause the crowd levels to seem much higher even if the total number of guests is the same.

Maybe.

Question: Has the marathon typically been the weekend right before the mlk holiday weekend?

That's the part I'm not sure of...and have no data on. Was it more people/ attendance? Or just more visible people? I don't know...

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

Maybe.

Question: Has the marathon typically been the weekend right before the mlk holiday weekend?

That's the part I'm not sure of...and have no data on. Was it more people/ attendance? Or just more visible people? I don't know...

We went in January 2011 and the marathon was the weekend before MLK day weekend. I think it is normally set up that way. However, the did add extra events to this year's marathon, so marathon weekend started earlier than in the past.

 

[pmreilly]

Disney is now managing queues based solely on attraction capacity, getting as close to the perfect JIT model as possible; as soon as a seat is available, a guest is available for that seat.

Add delays at FP Kiosks due to dramatic increases in transaction times and delays at attraction Touchpoints due to glitches and misunderstandings, and this will resulting in increased external (i.e. visible) queues.

Throw in the guests who have already used up their 3 FP's for the day and are now milling around the park wondering what to do next.

Those conditions will certainly cause the crowd levels to seem much higher even if the total number of guests is the same.

Doesn't FP+ allow users to book new FP as soon as their original FP is used? So once I use my first FP for the day I can book another, albeit in the same park?

 

[ArwenMarie]

Doesn't FP+ allow users to book new FP as soon as their original FP is used? So once I use my first FP for the day I can book another, albeit in the same park?

You can only get three per day, whether prebooked, or booked once you are in the park.

 

[pilferk]

We were there from the Tuesday before the marathon through the Wednesday after the marathon - the crowds were very light after the marathon, and only moderate through that Monday. My wife commented on the Monday and Tuesday after the marathon that she had not seen crowds that light in years. Granted, we went to the recommended parks those days, but the standby line for Soarin' on Monday was 25 minutes at 11:30 in the morning, and the standby line on Tuesday was 20 minutes at 2pm for Space Mountain (Buzz and the Haunted Mansion were all but a walk-on all day that day). I don't know what they expected, but the parks seemed pretty empty to us.

I think more than a couple/few days. Again, they were saying they typically get a week or two slow down in mid jan...they hadn't gotten it this year.

We were there the 11th - 18th.

Sunday am in mk was slow, afternoon was relatively busy, but not crazy.
Monday in Epcot was slow til mid to late afternoon. World Showcase had crowded walkways all afternoon...not sure about wait times as we "did" fw at rope drop and didn't head back there after 11 am.
Tuesday was busy at dhs, with tot wait times exceeding 120 minutes at times (maybe tech issues contributing). There were a bunch of large tour groups, though, which I think was having a bigger effect. Fps were wiped out for tot by 10 am. Tsmm had 60+ min waits by 10, that got longer as the day went. RNR was about a 35 min wait around 10 am and was about 75 min when we left about 2 pm. I've never been in dhs with wait times that long...though we travel in oct, early dec, and mid jan.
Wednesday at ak was slow early in the am, but busy by noon.
Thursday afternoon was chilly, but Epcot was moderately busy all the way through illuminations. Soarin and tt had 60-ish min wait times at 5 pm when we were heading to dinner at coral reef.
Friday was nuts at mk by around 11 am. We saw 75 min wait times all over the place (pan, Ariel meet and greet, btmr, rapunzel meet and greet, belles et) and 30+ min waits for the people eaters (HM, potc), easy.

But we've been in early jan before, and the crowd levels definitely seemed larger than in previous years. Not busy, every day, per say...just busier.

 

[pilferk]

Not an issue. They've already figured out how to do it for AP holders.

How?

Or are they just not addressing it for those folks?

And I though, right now, ap holders are like offsite...can only book day of.

Unless they've previously booked a resort stay, and got mbs for that stay.

In which case...that looks more like a system glitch, since their tickets don't have durations, rather than a "handling".

 

[d-r]

Not an issue. They've already figured out how to do it for AP holders.

Fwiw. We are ap holders and we got magic bracelets for a resort stay. We put the ap on our bands (if you do this be sure to keep and carry tour ap card for ap discounts, stores can't use the bracelet s for it). Anyway we can make FP for any day now. Every day for next 60 if we wanted. Fwiw.

 

[pilferk]

Fwiw. We are ap holders and we got magic bracelets for a resort stay. We put the ap on our bands (if you do this be sure to keep and carry tour ap card for ap discounts, stores can't use the bracelet s for it). Anyway we can make FP for any day now. Every day for next 60 if we wanted. Fwiw.

See, that seems more like a system glitch because your tickets have no hard duration in them.

And it requires you book a hotel stay.

I thought ap holders were being treated like off site...can only book day of...unless they've gotten mbs from a resort stay at some point.

That doesn't seem like handling, it seems like a glitch/loophole.

 

[Laketravis]

How?

Or are they just not addressing it for those folks?

Once an AP holder has stayed onsite, it "triggers" the ability to continue to schedule FP's in the future.

For example, I'm an AP holder and I stay onsite one night last November.

Today, I could open MDE and schedule an FP for next Tuesday. It also then opens up a seven day window for me to reserve FP's on additional days.

Once I've opened the window, I can continue to reserve FP's as the window is a rolling 7 day period. As the first day falls off, a new day is added to the end.

From a programming point of view, the trigger of an onsite stay could be removed and the capability enabled.

So they've already figured out how to provide that to anyone with a ticket.

That doesn't seem like handling, it seems like a glitch/loophole.

If that's a glitch or a loophole, they sure went to an awful lot of trouble to program it into the app.

 

[pilferk]

Once an AP holder has stayed onsite, it "triggers" the ability to continue to schedule FP's in the future.

For example, I'm an AP holder and I stay onsite one night last November.

Today, I could open MDE and schedule an FP for next Tuesday. It also then opens up a seven day window for me to reserve FP's on additional days.

Once I've opened the window, I can continue to reserve FP's as the window is a rolling 7 day period. As the first day falls off, a new day is added to the end.

From a programming point of view, the trigger of an onsite stay could be removed and the capability enabled.

So they've already figured out how to provide that to anyone with a ticket.

Right.

But it doesn't address/ handle the possibility of abuse.

The requirement of an onsite stay to get the functionality to work seems like it's a glitch, not a "feature".

My point, in the op, wasn't that they couldn't. It was that they might not want that ability to abuse the system rolled out "wide". Letting ap users have it is a little different, IMHO.b there is a little more control, there.

 

[MermaidMommy]

These reports have me getting more and more nervous for our upcoming Spring Break trip. I wish I could change it to a less busy time - and further from this FP+ switchover fiasco, - but we're locked in now. As proud FP- abusers, we had already tried to accept the fact that we probably won't ride as much, and definitely won't get to re-ride favorites like we used to. But, these first-hand experiences are worse than I would have expected. Josh doesn't have a post up yet, but he did post on his forum about his experience in MK on Saturday the 18th. Interestingly, he said that crowds weren't Thanksgiving-level but they were close. I'm holding onto at least a little hope that maybe Disney was unprepared for the crowd level and some of the long waits can be attributed to under-staffing and such.

http://www.easywdw.com/forums/showthread.php?16802-Pretty-Easy-Touring-Today-at-Magic-Kingdom

For another tiny glimmer of hope, Josh also posted that he was able to do 10 attractions (mostly in Fantasyland plus Pirates) before lunch. It's so ironic that this FP+ system that so many lauded because it would allow people to sleep in has, in fact, made early-morning touring more important than ever.

 

[pilferk]

If that's a glitch or a loophole, they sure went to an awful lot of trouble to program it into the app.

Not really. The existing programming seems to trigger off resort stay and ticket duration. The ticket you linked has a 365 day duration, with a hard end date.

The only bit that might be specific to aps (and likely to the longer duration tickets sold abroad) is the 7 day roll. Very little trouble to add that bit in.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Right.

But it doesn't address/ handle the possibility of abuse.

The requirement of an onsite stay to get the functionality to work seems like it's a glitch, not a "feature".

My point, in the op, wasn't that they couldn't. It was that they might not want that ability to abuse the system rolled out "wide". Letting ap users have it is a little different, IMHO.b there is a little more control, there.

I agree, I think the jury is out on what is going to happen with APs.

I think there could be a lot of reasons for the glitch or feature...Maybe they are thinking, hey, let APs book a room to get access if they really want it...that would add a lot of revenue. Maybe it really is a glitch. Maybe they are still trying to see how the numbers play out before they decide what to do officially with APs in terms of prebooking windows.

There is some reason that they aren't rolling it out to APs yet, that is all we know for sure.

 

[ultimate_ed]

I haven't been back to WDW since any of the FP+ started to come in to play, but it is disheartening to read through this thread at people's experience.

When we prepared to go for the first time (November 2010) - I did my homework on this forum along with some other sites and guide books. When we entered those parks for the first time, I knew how to get around, what rides to hit first , collecting my families tickets and hitting fast pass machines, taking a mid day break after spending a good morning of riding from rope drop, etc.

From this site I learned that if you really wanted to get the most out of WDW, you didn't want to be the family that walked through the gates, picked up a map and then started trying to figure out what you wanted to do - Those were the families who said "never again" after their one trip getting to do three rides after spending 90 minutes in each queue and complaining about all those "cutting" by taking the FP line they didn't know about.

I learned well from many of you regular experts - you who go several times a year and put a lot of money in Disney's coffers. And I was ready to join you. Thanks to these forums I've also been able to put together fantastic trips to Disneyland and two Disney Cruises so far. I feel like we managed to visit the the parks at the end of the golden age for the informed planners here.

Now, it seems like has decided that they just don't value all of you long term repeat visitors and I do have to think that is going to hurt them in the long term. For many still, a trip to Disney is a once in a lifetime trip and it is not a cheap undertaking, even with staying onsite. I wonder if Disney is really going to be able to pick up enough more of those one timers to make up for the frustration and loss of trips from the many who have made WDW their primary vacation destination over the years.

 

[pilferk]

These reports have me getting more and more nervous for our upcoming Spring Break trip. I wish I could change it to a less busy time - and further from this FP+ switchover fiasco, - but we're locked in now. As proud FP- abusers, we had already tried to accept the fact that we probably won't ride as much, and definitely won't get to re-ride favorites like we used to. But, these first-hand experiences are worse than I would have expected. Josh doesn't have a post up yet, but he did post on his forum about his experience in MK on Saturday the 18th. Interestingly, he said that crowds weren't Thanksgiving-level but they were close. I'm holding onto at least a little hope that maybe Disney was unprepared for the crowd level and some of the long waits can be attributed to under-staffing and such.

http://www.easywdw.com/forums/showthread.php?16802-Pretty-Easy-Touring-Today-at-Magic-Kingdom

For another tiny glimmer of hope, Josh also posted that he was able to do 10 attractions (mostly in Fantasyland plus Pirates) before lunch. It's so ironic that this FP+ system that so many lauded because it would allow people to sleep in has, in fact, made early-morning touring more important than ever.

I can confirm rope drop is still the great equalizer....at least for now. We were able to do pretty much everything with minimal waits by arriving at the parks at rd this past week.

Now, will this finally condition the late sleepers to get out of bed early? I doubt it. Rd has always been the most potent weapon in the arsenal...now, maybe, it's a little more potent. But I still think the ingrained need to sleep in on vacation will win out.

 

[g-dad66]

These reports have me getting more and more nervous for our upcoming Spring Break trip. I wish I could change it to a less busy time - and further from this FP+ switchover fiasco, - but we're locked in now. As proud FP- abusers, we had already tried to accept the fact that we probably won't ride as much, and definitely won't get to re-ride favorites like we used to. But, these first-hand experiences are worse than I would have expected. Josh doesn't have a post up yet, but he did post on his forum about his experience in MK on Saturday the 18th. Interestingly, he said that crowds weren't Thanksgiving-level but they were close. I'm holding onto at least a little hope that maybe Disney was unprepared for the crowd level and some of the long waits can be attributed to under-staffing and such.

http://www.easywdw.com/forums/showthread.php?16802-Pretty-Easy-Touring-Today-at-Magic-Kingdom

For another tiny glimmer of hope, Josh also posted that he was able to do 10 attractions (mostly in Fantasyland plus Pirates) before lunch. It's so ironic that this FP+ system that so many lauded because it would allow people to sleep in has, in fact, made early-morning touring more important than ever.

On the bright side, I haven't read any horror stories about FP+ at Animal Kingdom since it went paperless in December.

Also, I figure that forewarned is forearmed. You will be well prepared for your trip, and I wouldn't be surprised if your reaction turns out to be "Well, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be!