How is MK with no Legacy FP?

That was a concern of mine from the get go. And it saddens me to see it now play out.

I am also suspicious that different people get to see different options. For example deluxe guests may see a Peter Pan time slot that I might not see while staying at a DVC with points? Or does an off site guest not see the ETWB while someone with a contemporary room can see it and schedule it. Are the POP guests seeing the same thing as a concierge Beach Club guest?

It may not be happening, but it would be something that could happen.
 
I am also suspicious that different people get to see different options. For example deluxe guests may see a Peter Pan time slot that I might not see while staying at a DVC with points? Or does an off site guest not see the ETWB while someone with a contemporary room can see it and schedule it. Are the POP guests seeing the same thing as a concierge Beach Club guest?

It may not be happening, but it would be something that could happen.

Well, given what we DO know...... it's natural to be suspicious about this.
 
There have also been quite a few positive posts from people who have used this new system and were okay with it. Disney still has a ways to go with this thing, but it is not a complete disaster.

I like the concept of FP+, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired.
After spending a reported $1.3 billion, the whole system still has a lot of bugs and gremlins. Still, being able to secure Soarin' or Toy Story Midway Mania FP+ before leaving my house and not having to get there right at rope drop is a wonderful thing.

I would be very happy with the system if they get those kinks worked out, and they:
1. Upped the number of FP+ you could select per day to 5 for MK and 4 for the other parks
2. They let you pick attractions in 2 different parks per day
3. They did away with tiering at Epcot and the Studios

Unfortunately, I fear 3 per day is going to be the permanent hard limit unless you are staying in a Deluxe that night or you are willing to cough up extra cash.
 

I hate to be another debbie downer but I have another story to tell about the new fastpass+ system. We went to MK on January 2nd. This was when legacy fastpass was on its last leg meaning only offsite guests could used legacy fp. We stayed offsite so we didn't use fastpass +. We got in standby for Buzz Lightyear and it said the standby wait time was 45 minutes. I thought there was no way it was 45 minutes because the line started just outside the door to the building. I have been to WDW 10+ times so thats just my instinct telling me I have never waited 45 minutes for Buzz Lightyear, especially when the line starts just outside the door. It took us over an hour to get to the line when standby and fastpass+ meet! I couldn't believe it but here is the kicker. They were letting at least 50 fastpass+ people go on to every 6 (yes you read that right) people in standby line! This wasn't the only fastpass+ issue on the trip but it was probably the most annoying issue. Disney has a huge problem with fastpass plus that they need to figure out. Luckily since legacy was still intact, we got to ride space mountain and Peter Pan with fastpasses but with the new system even if you were staying on site, I don't think there is a way to get fastpasses to both of those headliners in one day. I will still be visiting WDW in the future but I am afraid I will have a sour taste going from now on even if I stay on site (which most of the time we do). I was a huge fan of fastpass + when it was first announced but I have a bad feeling that Disney is going to put $$$ before guest satisfaction.

The skewed ratios for FP return lines is not a new thing. I don't remember if they were that extreme but they were increasing the number of FP's given out a year ago when I was there just after New Years. Old instincts about line lengths don't hold true any more. Unfortunately on top of that Disney's estimate wasn't fully up to date. It probably changed shortly after you got in line. According to Josh's estimates at easywdw Buzz Light Year was expected to have a line of over an hour from noon to 7:00 and over 40 minuted from 10:00 am. till 10:00 pm. and a peak wait of almost 90 minutes on a day like Jan 2nd.

Or put another way... FP+ is the new standby. The system is not a reservation to ride, but a reservation to report to the line. Then the standby line becomes a TRUE "standby" line (i.e., wait to see IF there's an opening so they can squeeze you in between guests with reservations.).

But you FP+ users better not get too smug about that because you share the same fate in every line with the exception of those precious few FP+s.

Seems like I recall someone predicting this. Oh yeah... ME! :rotfl2:

Any line skipping system has this potential. During busy times Universal express pass lines can be half an hour long. With Disney, the risk of this definitely increases as the percentage of ride capacity devoted FP's increases. It only increases if the ride is a headliner and it's the afternoon.

For the headliner's it may be in Disney's best interest to devote less of the capacity of the ride to FPs during mid day and more of the capacity in the morning and evening. Allowing the standby line to move faster when it's expected to be the longest and increase FP use when the standby lines are not quite as long. Yes I know that's the exact opposite strategy of everyone on this site.

I'm still cautiously optimistic Disney can eventually get the final product working, even though the "testing" has been rocky at best and a disaster in areas at worst.
 
I just returned from a trip on Friday (1/17/14).

We had a split onsite stay - 1st 5 days at AoA, last 5 days at OKW with our DVC points.

I didn't not experience the FP+ wait at the kiosk because we had pre-booked FPs.

However, I will say that I was underwhelmed with the Magic Band/FP+/MDE app interaction. It did not go smoothly.

Our group did all the right things. Got MDE on our smart phones. Linked ourselves up, put in our ticket so we could do the online FP pre-booking. Apparently because my DH Terry and BIL Peter and I (Patty) had linked ourselves together through MDE as travelling together, the MB thought that my BIL and DH were supposed to have key access to my room. Now, my BIL and his wife had checked in earlier the 1st day than we had, so he somehow had MB key access both THEIR room and OUR room. I had key access nowehere. Thankfully we had a rental car minivan so, in a pinch, I had a place to sleep. ;)

It took the young lady helping us at AoA about 30 minutes, including a call to an IT person, to rectify that. After that there were no more problems with those magic bands from AoA.

Then came the move to OKW, where Terry & I, Peter & Eileen and a single friend Joan were moving from 3 separate room in AoA to one grand villa in OKW. Terry & I (the DVC owners) arrived at OKW first and checked in. I believe that the CM who was helping might have started the cascade of events which ultimately resulted in 5 hours of back and forth with regard to the MBs and a $175 dining credit.

Our original reservation was for Patty, Terry, Peter, Eileen, Joan, Dave and Liz to stay in the GV. At the last minute Dave and Liz couldn't come. But Joan's parents Jim and Charlotte who live down there were going to come and stay a night or two. So we had the CM remove Dave and Liz and add Jim and Charlotte. Seems simple enough...take 2 names off, and add 2 names.

He told us that Jim and Charlotte could use the MBs originally intended for Dave and Liz. I thought that was funky and said so, but the CM said it was fine. Jim and Charlotte only needed key access, since they weren't doing park passes and didn't need charging priveleges. That's why I fiugred it would be OK, since it was just key access. We took the MBs for Patty, Terry, Jim (which had Dave's name on it) and Charlotte (which had Liz's name on it) but left Peter's, Eileen's and Joan's at the desk for them to pick up when they arrived at the hotel.

We then went to DHS for a while then to Publix to pick up snacks for the room. While at Publix we get a call from Peter who was trying to check in but they don't have his correct name on the reservation. At this point on the reservation they had Patty, Terry, Dave, Joan, Eileen, Jim, Charlotte and Peter but they had Peter with Jim and Charlotte's last name, not his own last name. So we kind of joked that Eileen (married to Peter) would actually be sleeping with Dave (who wasn't even there) and Jim (the father of 4 daughters, no sons) now had the son he always wanted. :)

So they had to redo the reservation completely to get the right people on it and to get the magic bands working. So they did this, assured us that everything was fine. Off we go to the rooms where the doors open, the next day we go to the parks where the admission works, then we go to do our FPs and Peter's FP access doesn't work. We had the FPs on our MDE so we showed them the phone and the CMs waved him through.

So now we go back to the front desk at OKW to tell them that the doors and park admission works but Peter's FP doesn't. They redo the reservation again, and everything works. Keep in mind that each redoing of the reservation takes from 30-45 minutes because the CMs are slower with the new system. Each CM, however, was quite lovely and very apologetic. And with each redo of the reservation, each person has to go back down and reattach their credit card to their MB for charging privelges should they so desire. They also offered the $175 dining credit at this point, which was nice of them. I did not request it, they offered.

So now the door works, the next day we go to a park and the admission works, we do our scheduled FPs and they work!!! Success!!!!!!!!

But wait, Eileen now decides that she wants to get on MDE and connect to Peter, Terry and I so she can see all the dinner reservations and FPs etc. So she does so during some downtime at the park.

We get back to the room and my (Patty) key won't open the door. Neither will Terry's. Now Terry and Patty are the DVC owners, so this is quite amusing.:rotfl: Eileen, Peter, Joan, Jim and Charlotte are able to unlock the door.

So back we go to the front desk where at this point I think the CMs are cringing when they see me walk in. Another lovely CM redoes the reservation (for the 3rd time now), checks everything, assures us that everything will work, assures us that all dining reservations are intact, all park admissions are intact and all FPs are intact. I thanked and did tell her that she needed to tell a manager at OKW that if I had anymore difficulty with the MDE/MB connection that he/ she would be the next person I would be talking to because as lovely and trying-to-be-helpful as the regular front desk people were being, at the point of having to spend any more time on this issue I would want a "suit" to hear my complaint to take it to whomever. Their last instruction to us was don't have anyone else "connect" to us all in the MDE app because they think that Eileen connecting to it is what caused the 3rd problem.

Thankfully the 3rd time was a charm and everything worked for the remainder of the trip and the front desk people called several times to make sure everything was working. They also told us that the IT people were looking at our situation as a "case study"...probbaly true since we were not a straight "check into one hotel check out of same hotel and go home" sort of a group but more of a "check into one hotel with 3 separate reservations, check out of that hotel check into another hotel under one reservation with multiple people in the same room" kind of a thing.

Another family we know was down there at the same time with their 3 children and had difficulty with the FP on the MB for their youngest son. On the MDE app, it showed all 5 of them on the FP but when he waved his MB at the kiosk thing, it wouldn't turn green. He said most CMs just said "go ahead" but apparently one guy was like "if it doesn't turn green he can't go in". Our friend looked at the guy and said "Why in the world would I make a FP reservation for me, my wife and 2 of my 3 children?". The CM gave him enough of an argument where our friend finally said "Bring me someone above you to talk to". At that point the CM let them through.

My point being, I work in IT. I understand Go Live. I undertsand the kinks on the system which will only be found once it's live in the "real world" and not the test world. But I also think that Disney's instructions to their CMs should be "if a guest is reasonable and can show you something which verifies that what they are saying is true, then do it. Don't argue." Or in Ferd's case, obviously if she got an all inclusive FP card it was because of a problem so don't give her more of a problem when she tries to use it. Just do it.

THAT'S where they're dropping the ball. People would understand "glitches in the system" a lot better if the CM said "we're having a glitch in the system, go ahead through". When they have a system live that they KNOW is not perfect, it is not the time to play policeman and assume people are trying to beat the system. Take down some kind of information if you need to (room #, MB#, pass #) so your IT people can look in the background and see what happened, but don't break it off on the guest.

And yes, in addition to everyone at the hotel knowing my issues, I also sent an email to them when I got home outlining what had happened.
 
I guess I hadn't read enough about the process beforehand, so I was surprised that we didn't choose a ride & then see approx. times available before moving on to our next choice. We had 3 itineraries to choose from with one of the itineraries not even having one of our ride choices. Anyway, we booked it pretty quick because the castmember who made our lunch reservation was helping us.

When you pre-book FP+, you get the same thing (3 or 4 itineraries, sometimes not even including one or more of the attractions you selected).

BUT.....you can change all of the attractions and times individually, if you want.

I'm wondering if this same option is available to offsite guests using the kiosks in the parks.

I realize it's quite a time-consuming process to do this, so it may be awhile before we have any first-hand reports from someone who tries this.

In the meantime, I appreciate all of the first-hand reports here from those who have been to MK since January 14 (posts #8, 13, 15, 17, 20, 26, 39, 46, 48, 51, 101, 113, 143, 173, 179). Of these 15 reports, 3 are positive about FP+, and 12 are not.
 
I finally figured it out. I know why this is happening.

The suits are modeling guest reactions using Roller Coaster Tycoon 4 -- Walt Disney World Edition!!!
 
Ferd's detailed (thanks Ferd!!) post two above - I won't quote it since she was very detailed and it was very long - but that begs the question for me...

Where are all these people coming from? The parks are flat out more crowded. As Ferd noted, and we experienced three weeks ago ourselves, even the Fast Pass lines are slow. They aren't instant-on anymore generally speaking, they are just faster than Standby. I suppose some of it could be chalked up to people holding up the line because they don't understand, but there just seem to be more people. What we experienced was backups INSIDE the queue, even after the bands/tickets have been scanned/collected, we were still backed up waiting.

So perhaps Disney has raised the number of fast passes they hand out (maybe they used to give out 4,000 per day for Ride X, and now they give out 8,000 per day, whatever), and that's why the Fast Pass lines back up. However, because they are limiting the fast passes to 3, all the Standby lines are reported to be longer than ever, even on "value season" days.

Where are these people coming from? Has WDW suddenly become the only worldwide vacation destination? It seems that way...

Spring break looks like it's going to be a bit insane.

Again, talking to some cms on the ground last week...they all had a similar "complaint". It takes literally a second to collect 5 paper fastpasses from an entire party and pass them through the final checkpoint. It takes at least 2 to 3 seconds, PER guest, to scan mbs/tickets. Yes, there are usually 2 scanners at that last checkpoint, but even so you go from about one to 2 seconds to 6 seconds to pass that same party of 5 through, and that's IF the part is experienced enough to know to use both scanners without prompting.

The cms say it just takes them longer to clear guests with the new system. Or at least gets the perception of the cms I talked to.
 
Can anybody confirm if that's really the policy or if it's another case of CM's not knowing what they're talking about?

I'm not sure about policy, but we saw the same thing on Friday. I'm not sure f it's an equipment issue or what. Some of the single banks of kiosks were really being used as "update/change" only...meaning only for those that had has fp+ already. Not necessarily for only onsite...if you had made your fp+ earlier in the day and just wanted to check them! you could use those banks.

Others were reserved for making same day fp+. This included onsite guests who had not prebooked in advance. They were staffed far more heavily, and had extra cms with iPads who could also make fp+ on them.

I'm not sure it's about second class citizens, as much as it is about staffing and throughput.

I agree, though...it's a bad way to handle it, IMHO.
 
This is exactly what I've been wondering as well. If the total number of people stayed constant and you redistributed the fast passes at 3 each instead of 8 for some and none for others, the lines should have evened out. This mess can only be explained by huge increases in attendance.

Many of the cms bemoaned the fact there was no real break after the holiday rush. They went from Xmas to New Years to marathon to mlk weekend. They said usually there is a week or two drop off during January that has never really materialized.

So they seemed to think there were larger than usual crowds, too.
 
Again, talking to some cms on the ground last week...they all had a similar "complaint". It takes literally a second to collect 5 paper fastpasses from an entire party and pass them through the final checkpoint. It takes at least 2 to 3 seconds, PER guest, to scan mbs/tickets. Yes, there are usually 2 scanners at that last checkpoint, but even so you go from about one to 2 seconds to 6 seconds to pass that same party of 5 through, and that's IF the part is experienced enough to know to use both scanners without prompting.

The cms say it just takes them longer to clear guests with the new system. Or at least gets the perception of the cms I talked to.

And they couldn't see that one coming?
 
And they couldn't see that one coming?

You would think they would have...so either they are dumber than posts, or they didn't care for some reason. I'm guessing the second, because they think they are going to realize some operational benefits that offset it.

The thing us, guests aren't seeing any real benefit...and it looks like maybe detriment.

What we saw on the ground was not encouraging. I'm reserving judgement til we get more history to judge by, but....while our experience wasn't bad ( we are rope droppers who often leave the parks early or spend afternoons doing things like sorcerers of mk), what we SAW in terms of standby lines, fp+ kiosk ques, cm "education", etc wasn't promising. But, to add to that....while we have gone in early jan before, the crowd levels seemed much higher. I'm not sure if there has been a year we've gone that the marathon has been the week before mlk. That may have been big contributing factors...which is why I'm not willing to say our anecdotal experience is enough to form my final opinion on.
 
Many of the cms bemoaned the fact there was no real break after the holiday rush. They went from Xmas to New Years to marathon to mlk weekend. They said usually there is a week or two drop off during January that has never really materialized.

So they seemed to think there were larger than usual crowds, too.

so much for the notion that FP+ is going to drive people away
 
I like the concept of FP+, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

...

I would be very happy with the system if they get those kinks worked out, and they:
1. Upped the number of FP+ you could select per day to 5 for MK and 4 for the other parks
2. They let you pick attractions in 2 different parks per day
3. They did away with tiering at Epcot and the Studios

Correction. You do NOT like the concept of FP+. You simply aren't letting yourself admit that Disney destroyed your vacations.

-Jason
 
It takes at least 2 to 3 seconds, PER guest, to scan mbs/tickets.
But, three seconds per guest should be plenty. That gives you 40 guests per minute (20 at each scanner), or 2400 guests per hour. Even if 3/4ths of a ride's total capacity were devoted to FP+, you'd need an attraction that could move north of 3,000 people per hour before the scanners were the bottleneck. There are only a handful of attractions that can hit that number, and it seems doubtful that that many people would be using FP+ on those.

http://crooksinwdw.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/theoreticaloperational-hourly-ride-capacity-at-wdw/
 
....while we have gone in early jan before, the crowd levels seemed much higher.

Disney is now managing queues based solely on attraction capacity, getting as close to the perfect JIT model as possible; as soon as a seat is available, a guest is available for that seat.

Add delays at FP Kiosks due to dramatic increases in transaction times and delays at attraction Touchpoints due to glitches and misunderstandings, and this will resulting in increased external (i.e. visible) queues.

Throw in the guests who have already used up their 3 FP's for the day and are now milling around the park wondering what to do next.

Those conditions will certainly cause the crowd levels to seem much higher even if the total number of guests is the same.
 
Many of the cms bemoaned the fact there was no real break after the holiday rush. They went from Xmas to New Years to marathon to mlk weekend. They said usually there is a week or two drop off during January that has never really materialized.

So they seemed to think there were larger than usual crowds, too.

We were there from the Tuesday before the marathon through the Wednesday after the marathon - the crowds were very light after the marathon, and only moderate through that Monday. My wife commented on the Monday and Tuesday after the marathon that she had not seen crowds that light in years. Granted, we went to the recommended parks those days, but the standby line for Soarin' on Monday was 25 minutes at 11:30 in the morning, and the standby line on Tuesday was 20 minutes at 2pm for Space Mountain (Buzz and the Haunted Mansion were all but a walk-on all day that day). I don't know what they expected, but the parks seemed pretty empty to us.
 
Any word on how the FP+ kiosk lines are today at the MK? I'd imagine it's busy there today.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards
 

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