How inconvenient is offsite - really?

[Brian Noble]

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance" - George Bernard Shaw

 

[disneysteve]

It is possible to secure DVC stays quite affordably, but that depends on some inefficiencies in the way timeshares work, and requires both patience and planning.

I'm curious about this. When you say "affordably" what does that mean? I didn't think one could rent DVC for anywhere near the price of comparable (or better) offsite accommodations.

 

[Brian Noble]

You probably can't rent them for comparable prices. But the timeshare exchange market can be very inefficient in an economic sense.

Sadly, markets tend to become more efficient over time, and this also happens with exchanges, making it harder to find arbitrage opportunities. Because of this, these days I'd never recommend someone get into timesharing as a way to find such opportunities. I suspect most people would be better off just using the time to do more billable work, and renting what they want for what it costs.

But, for someone looking for a hobby, this can be a fun one. Just remember what Ambrose Bierce had to say about hobbies:

Hans meant well; but he had a hobby--a hobby that he did not ride: that does not express it: it rode him.

 

[robinb]

Perhaps. But I have yet to find a 2 bedroom, 2 bath Disney resort villa for anywhere near what we pay at SVR. The one bedroom villas can sometimes come close in certain seasons, but never the two bedroom. Of course, you make a good point on the patience and planning. I admittedly don't have the patience to devote hours to finding affordably priced Disney resort accommodations. I don't find delight in that pursuit like many folks do. Booking our timeshare is easy (and convenient, lol!)....which is right up my alley .

Gina, what is SVR?

 

[Brian Noble]

Sheraton Vistana Resort. Annual fees vary from section to section, but $825-$925 per year is probably in the ballpark. The other Sheraton property in the area, Vistana Villages, is a bit more expensive.

 

[robinb]

Sheraton Vistana Resort. Annual fees vary from section to section, but $825-$925 per year is probably in the ballpark. The other Sheraton property in the area, Vistana Villages, is a bit more expensive.

thanks! I know you can rent for a lot less.

 

[Brian Noble]

Yes, but if I remember correctly, Gina is an owner there, so she pays full freight. On the plus side, she doesn't have to track down an owner from whom to rent, negotiate, etc. She just calls and books her week when she is ready. Avoiding the "rental hassle" was what led me to buying my first timeshare.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

Sheraton Vistana Resort. Annual fees vary from section to section, but $825-$925 per year is probably in the ballpark. The other Sheraton property in the area, Vistana Villages, is a bit more expensive.

Right on the money. Ours, in Fountains, are $906 for 2015.

thanks! I know you can rent for a lot less.

Yes, but if I remember correctly, Gina is an owner there, so she pays full freight. On the plus side, she doesn't have to track down an owner from whom to rent, negotiate, etc. She just calls and books her week when she is ready. Avoiding the "rental hassle" was what led me to buying my first timeshare.

Full freight, to me, would be what Sheraton charges by booking direct on their website.

I just scanned the TUG marketplace to see what other owners are renting their weeks for at SVR. Two bedrooms are being offered from $850 to $1400 for weeks that fall in 2015. The sole rental listing that's on the low end ($850) doesn't say which section that owner owns in. Would those owners negotiate down? Maybe. I honestly don't know how often haggling works.

Definitely those who can book last-minute trips would probably be able to secure timeshares quite cheaply, especially if weeks are fixed and an owner has to either rent it for whatever they can get, or lose the week completely. Our trips from Canada can't be that spontaneous. The specific units we own are floats (so we're not locked into a specific week), and we can book the week of our choice a full year in advance of our travel dates.

I know many folks have enjoyed successful rentals via VRBO or ebay, but that falls outside our personal comfort limit (though I'm glad it works well for others). If we have any kind of issue, we only have to deal with Starwood/Sheraton. That's an "insurance" we will gladly pay a small premium for.

Just for fun, I ran a quote for our May 2015 dates with David's DVC rentals. The cheapest DVC rental is coming up at $3080 for a 2 bedroom (Animal Kingdom). I know that David's might not be the cheapest place to rent DVC, but I can't imagine it can be undercut by more than 2/3 elsewhere to match our $906 at the Vistana.

 

[robinb]

Just for fun, I ran a quote for our May 2015 dates with David's DVC rentals. The cheapest DVC rental is coming up at $3080 for a 2 bedroom (Animal Kingdom). I know that David's might not be the cheapest place to rent DVC, but I can't imagine it can be undercut by more than 2/3 elsewhere to match our $906 at the Vistana.

Just a little bit of a comparison to your own costs. The week you are talking about would be 220 points. I pay $6 per point in dues, so that 2-bedroom would cost me $1320 in dues. Now that is $414 more than you are paying your own dues but is is a whole lot less than $3080 and only $60 more per night to stay on Disney property.

I have NO problem staying offsite, but onsite costs for DVC members are comparable. Plus, my DVC contracts hold their value far better than most timeshares.

 

[disneysteve]

Just a little bit of a comparison to your own costs. The week you are talking about would be 220 points. I pay $6 per point in dues, so that 2-bedroom would cost me $1320 in dues. Now that is $414 more than you are paying your own dues but is is a whole lot less than $3080 and only $60 more per night to stay on Disney property.

I have NO problem staying offsite, but onsite costs for DVC members are comparable. Plus, my DVC contracts hold their value far better than most timeshares.

But didn't you pay to buy in to DVC or SVR? How much was your upfront cost? You can't leave that out of the equation. I often find that timeshare owners leave that out when talking about what a great deal it is.

 

[robinb]

But didn't you pay to buy in to DVC? How much was your upfront cost? You can't leave that out of the equation. I often find that timeshare owners leave that out when talking about what a great deal it is.

Yes, of course I paid for my timeshare the same as Gina did. FWIW, I can sell my 200 BWV points for about $20 more per point than I purchased it for and my 100 AKV points for about $10 less.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

But didn't you pay to buy in to DVC or SVR? How much was your upfront cost? You can't leave that out of the equation. I often find that timeshare owners leave that out when talking about what a great deal it is.

Our SVR timeshares were $99 each, with the seller paying all transfer and legal fees. Each came with a week to use for that year, maintenance fees all paid, so they actually cost us nothing.

Definitely the purchase price has to be calculated in for a fair comparison.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

Just a little bit of a comparison to your own costs. The week you are talking about would be 220 points. I pay $6 per point in dues, so that 2-bedroom would cost me $1320 in dues. Now that is $414 more than you are paying your own dues but is is a whole lot less than $3080 and only $60 more per night to stay on Disney property.

But didn't you pay to buy in to DVC or SVR? How much was your upfront cost? You can't leave that out of the equation. I often find that timeshare owners leave that out when talking about what a great deal it is.

$1320 in dues + a percentage of your purchase price.

On a percentage basis, that's an additional 46% more without factoring in the price you paid for your contract (and any financing costs, if applicable).

Because I am curious.....Is it possible for the average Joe to rent points that cheaply from an owner? Will owners rent their points for just their own costs? Or is getting DVC that affordable only by purchasing (not renting)? We've never had any inclination to stay at a DVC resort (mostly because there are more amenities at the resorts offsite, and both the dining plan and the Disney bus system hold no appeal to our family) so I honestly have no idea.

 

[BigredNole]

I just got back from staying at WBC. The only inconvenience that I had was the parking and that was not too bad. What I mean by this is you are a little farther back than where the buses drop you off. For me and my daughter, it is not that bad. Beyond that, there were no other inconveniences, they were are superior offerings.

As for offsite vs onsite, I got 7 nights in a 2BR Deluxe at WBC for $500 Dec 14-21. I also got a 1BR DVC pool view at Boardwalk for $1200 Jan 31 - Feb 7. The WBC ressie was during a higher season and was less than half of Boardwalk. I am thrilled with the Boardwalk purchase, but it can in no way compare to the price we got at WBC. If it were up to me and I could cancel the Boardwalk ressie, I would switch back to WBC in a heartbeat. It simply is not worth the money to stay at Boardwalk. It is literally a 5 minute drive and that is if I get stuck at the lights.

 

[robinb]

Our SVR timeshares were $99 each, with the seller paying all transfer and legal fees. Each came with a week to use for that year, maintenance fees all paid, so they actually cost us nothing.

Definitely the purchase price has to be calculated in for a fair comparison.

Awesome deal! Did you buy on eBay?

$1320 in dues + a percentage of your purchase price.

On a percentage basis, that's an additional 46% more without factoring in the price you paid for your contract (and any financing costs, if applicable).

Because I am curious.....Is it possible for the average Joe to rent points that cheaply from an owner? Will owners rent their points for just their own costs? Or is getting DVC that affordable only by purchasing (not renting)? We've never had any inclination to stay at a DVC resort (mostly because there are more amenities at the resorts offsite, and both the dining plan and the Disney bus system hold no appeal to our family) so I honestly have no idea.

We paid cash and I can sell my points and break even so I don't count the cost of the price I paid for my contract. If I sold today I would be slightly ahead even after paying commission. So, I think we are even on purchase price . Yes, it's 46% more but it's still only $60 per night more to stay in a deluxe Disney resort. If you don't have an AP, the difference is down to $43 since parking is now $17 per day. I have to say that as my DD gets older I really appreciate the transportation available to her. She doesn't need to stay with us if she wants to go off by herself.

But to answer your question, owners rarely rent for the price of their dues and if they do it's last minute and availability is not good. Frankly, that's another advantage I'm my mind. I pay $1,800 in dues (really $1530 because I'm using Disney gift cards I bought with a 15% discount) and I can rent them out for $13 per point and get $3,900 for them.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not an on site sycophant. I actually enjoy staying offsite in a timeshare, condo or house. I can't see staying offsite in a hotel room, though as there are better and cheaper options. But I do see DVC from an owners standpoint to be comparable to other quality timeshares in the area.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

Awesome deal! Did you buy on eBay?

Resale, yes. From ebay, no. We purchased through a licensed broker from a real estate agency in Orlando (Concierge Realty). Gave us a much better feeling than dealing with an unknown from the internet. I guess we're just not very trusting, lol!

 

[robinb]

Resale, yes. From ebay, no. We purchased through a licensed broker from a real estate agency in Orlando (Concierge Realty). Gave us a much better feeling than dealing with an unknown from the internet. I guess we're just not very trusting, lol!

You got a great price! I would look into it myself, but our family is outgrowing WDW. Does it trade well?

 

[disneysteve]

I have to say that as my DD gets older I really appreciate the transportation available to her. She doesn't need to stay with us if she wants to go off by herself.

This is an onsite perk that often gets overlooked. When staying onsite, your whole party doesn't have to travel as one group. They can easily split up. The teens can sleep in and meet up with the family later in the day. Or mom can take the toddler back to the room for a nap while dad stays in the park with the older kid. Or mom, dad, and the kids can go to the waterpark for the day while grandmom and grandpop do some shopping at DTD or catch a movie.

And let's not forget that staying onsite you can enjoy an adult beverage or two and not have to worry about driving back to your offsite accommodations. Last year we stayed onsite for the first time in about 15 years because we won a trip from the DIS! We spent 3 days at the Swan and the one evening we walked into Epcot (also something you can't do from offsite), I stopped at the kiosk in France and bought one of those Grey Goose orange slushie drinks. I can't tell you the last time I had alcohol at Disney because I'm always the one driving and I will not drink and drive. I'm not a big drinker (especially at Disney prices) but it was nice to be able to do it and not worry about getting home.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

You got a great price! I would look into it myself, but our family is outgrowing WDW. Does it trade well?

I honestly don't know how it compares for trade value versus similar timeshares in the area. We like to spend two weeks in Orlando each year (we're from the north....we need to warm up now and again ) so we use them both yearly at the Vistana. While both units are floats, the fixed weeks on the deeds are both mid-summer (July). Your more detailed knowledge of the trading system would probably deduce more than I could on the trade power of our specific units .

Truthfully, we bought our units with the intent to stay at that specific resort. I know some of the timeshare wizards on TUG have perfected the purchase and trade system, but I'll never be that savvy (nor do I have the inclination to put in the time to learn ... not at this stage of my life, anyway). They wow me with their abilities, though. They seem to make one week at resort A turn into a month at resort B without hardly breaking a sweat.

We have also outgrown Disney. Our son turns 19 in two weeks, and has no interest in the "magic" (nor do we, old poops in our 40's that we are). Couple that with the necessity to micro-plan (reservations for dinner, reservations for rides, fastpasses for character meets) and it has sucked all the fun out of Disney for us. That's one of the reasons we love the location of the Vistana....its close to Disney. Its close to SeaWorld. Its a short drive up the I4 to Universal. Its an easy hour to the beach. Its a stone's throw from the outlet malls and a zillion different offsite dining options (all of which are novel to us Canucks, who don't have many of the American chain restaurants up here in the Great White North). We barely even hit DTD anymore, and completely skipped it on our August trip (we did a drive by once, intending to stop, but the construction woes kept us from stopping). That said, we may consider MNSSHP on our October trip, just to give Disney another kick at the cat. Perhaps a special event such as that will win Disney back a little place in our hearts.

 

[disneysteve]

We have also outgrown Disney.

I sincerely hope those words never come out of my mouth.

I hear you, though, on the frustrations with the new system. We were not at all pleased with FP+ on our last trip in August. I'm really not sure how that will alter our touring in the future. I'm hoping the system changes significantly to be more like the old way but I don't really expect that to happen. If anything drives us away from Disney, FP+ will be it.