How far off is a gay princess movie?

[naberrie]

Has anyone else wondered about this? Unfortunately, I would be willing to bet that Disney has no intentions of featuring an LGBT princess in one of their movies anytime soon, if ever. I can see a gay background character (or more likely, an "implicitly" gay background character like the live-action LeFou) appearing in one of the animated movies somewhere down the line, but the fact that even that hasn't happened yet shows how averse Disney is to change even now. I guess in Disney's eyes, the risks (alienating conservative and anti-gay consumers) outweighs the benefits of broadening their films' diversity and making history. Obviously I don't agree, but Disney (and especially Disney under Iger) seems to function under the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" motto.

I give it 10-15 years for an explicitly gay background character, and 50+ (and this is optimistic) for a main character.

Either way, I'm hoping Elsa isn't given a love interest in the Frozen sequel so I can at least continue to believe she's a lesbian–plus one of the most refreshing things about the movie in the first place was its focus on womanhood.

 

[ToliBera]

I've been knocking around a script for a run at The Pied Piper where the protag is being raised by two "uncles". I say we've got about 15 for a lgbtqia main character in a Disney TV series. but we'll have to see how China turns as far as gay acceptance before Disney really puts their weight behind it in a main run film.

 

[naberrie]

Makes sense, especially with the live-action BatB banned in Kuwait and Malaysia (and apparently...drive-ins in Alabama?) for the barely-there suggestion of a gay character.

(Sounds like a cool script, though!)

 

[earfulofmagic]

Red and Dorothy are kind of main characters (at least for their story arc episodes) in Once Upon a Time. Kind of more like Disney Lite, but you know.

I want to wager under 10 years for explicitly lgbt background character -- thinking parents or neighbors or something -- and 15-30 years for a main character.

Outside of Disney IP -- Dumbledore is a Confirmed Gay(TM) character, and I am guessing somewhere in the next few Fantastic Beasts movies, that'll show up. So, I wonder if that would nudge public opinion and Disney media along.

 

[naberrie]

I've watched Once Upon a Time but had to drop it...The Red/Dorothy episode just felt like too little too late after all the other balls the writers on that show dropped re: LGBT representation. The Mulan/Aurora stuff (not to mention all the baiting with the two leading women) just left such a bad taste in my mouth. It was a fun show in earlier seasons though.

But yeah, that estimate sounds about right. It'd definitely be nice to actually see Dumbledore again now that his sexuality is confirmed!

I think the closest thing there's been to actual rep in an animated IP was with the side-character in Paranorman, and even that was a 'blink if you miss it' thing.

 

[ToliBera]

Well there was Lafou & Stanley in the live action B&TB... but that felt more like what a person in 1994/2004 THOUGHT gay people were like. (Catty, act like a woman trapped in a mans body) instead of what is closer to earth.

and from Gargoyles Lexington comes out in the comic series. which is loosely a disney IP?

 

[wilkeliza]

From an animated movie it is going to be years based on what has already been released. These aren't things they can start work on today and be ready with for opening next year.

I think for live action we will see it more quickly. Of course this is becoming a darned if you do and darned if you don't kind of thing. Whenever an LGBT character is made it seems like for every article about ground breaking there is there is an article for how awful and not enough it is.

 

[kboo]

I guess we aren't counting Judy Hopps' neighbors (forgot their names) in Zootopia or Oaken's family in the sauna in Frozen? (as background characters, of course).

I've also heard that Elsa will not be given a (male) love interest in the sequel, which would be refreshing to say the least. Moana also doesn't have even close to a love interest, same with Elena....

 

[ToliBera]

Judy's neighbors didn't really feel like full characters though, they felt more like setting elements to show how underwhelming the apartment was, and the family from frozen (were they officially said to be Oakens?) still seemed vauge enough to have either the larger male, or larger female be Oaken's partner.

curious about this Elsa t. can I get a source?

 

[earfulofmagic]

+1 to the Zootopia characters being more setting than characters

I was unclear on their relationship (thought they were supposed to be a gag on ~hipster millennial roommates/neighbors~) but I see now the voice actor confirmed they're a married couple. So, there's that, but still feels more like subtle lgbt decoration once again rather than characters

 

[naberrie]

I guess we aren't counting Judy Hopps' neighbors (forgot their names) in Zootopia or Oaken's family in the sauna in Frozen? (as background characters, of course).

I've also heard that Elsa will not be given a (male) love interest in the sequel, which would be refreshing to say the least. Moana also doesn't have even close to a love interest, same with Elena....

Agreed that Judy's neighbors were just extreme side-characters (another "blink if you miss it" scenario) and I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Oaken theory was disproven, and one of the people mistaken for a kid in the sauna was revealed to be his wife.

Definitely crossing my fingers that Elsa won't get a love interest in the sequel. Pretty sure Disney is well aware of the #GiveElsaAGirlfriend movement (Idina Menzel definitely is) and while that's obviously out of the question for Disney, I'm hoping they'll have the good grace to leave it an unanswered question. I don't think there's anything concrete on the sequel yet, though (or not that I've heard).

Also know there were a lot of rumors from more conservative news because Merida doesn't want to get married...but since it was an arranged marriage and Merida wanted to make her own choices, I don't think that's proof of much (although she's one of my recent favorites along with Elsa).

 

[kboo]

Agreed that Judy's neighbors were just extreme side-characters (another "blink if you miss it" scenario) and I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Oaken theory was disproven, and one of the people mistaken for a kid in the sauna was revealed to be his wife.

Definitely crossing my fingers that Elsa won't get a love interest in the sequel. Pretty sure Disney is well aware of the #GiveElsaAGirlfriend movement (Idina Menzel definitely is) and while that's obviously out of the question for Disney, I'm hoping they'll have the good grace to leave it an unanswered question. I don't think there's anything concrete on the sequel yet, though (or not that I've heard).

Also know there were a lot of rumors from more conservative news because Merida doesn't want to get married...but since it was an arranged marriage and Merida wanted to make her own choices, I don't think that's proof of much (although she's one of my recent favorites along with Elsa).

Phooey. I'm disappointed by the Oaken theory. Will have to freeze frame and see for myself.

I also really liked Merida's refusal to agree to an arranged marriage (and that she beat most of her suitors). At the very least, I'm thankful for the more recent crop of princesses to have a bit more spine and for the story lines not to depend on finding the prince.

 

[kboo]

@naberrie- this picture is pretty convincing to me! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/secret-not-secret-gay-disney-characters/oaken/

 

[ToliBera]

There's been the moms in Good Luck Charlie, have any other characters shown up in the background yet?

 

[wilkeliza]

@naberrie- this picture is pretty convincing to me! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/secret-not-secret-gay-disney-characters/oaken/

At the same time I always thought that was his brother or sister and their spouse because the one girl looks like she could be an adult. There is not way to be definitive if the relationship isn't called out.

 

[Sapphic_galaxy]

I would love for Elsa to be gay in the sequel but I would imagine that would cause quite an uproar. Disney is "sprinkling" gay characters into it's movies lately, so I assume they will take some more baby steps before making such an essential character gay.

 

[Sapphic_galaxy]

There's been the moms in Good Luck Charlie, have any other characters shown up in the background yet?

There were two moms in Doc McStuffins and a couple of same sex couples can be seen kissing in an episode of Star Vs. the Forces of Evil

 

[kboo]

At the same time I always thought that was his brother or sister and their spouse because the one girl looks like she could be an adult. There is not way to be definitive if the relationship isn't called out.

That is true but (and maybe we see what we want to see, and I want to see this!) at the same time I feel like the way the characters are sitting and how they look really suggests that blond guy (big, clearly an adult, sitting in the center, and clearly not related by blood to anyone else in the sauna) is the parent, and everyone else arranged in a circle around him, including the girl, all clearly look like exactly like each other. It's not like the possibly teenage girl looks like Oaken's sister, and the other younger kids don't look like a blend of teenage girl + blond guy. And while it would be nice to see the relationship called out more than it was (although I thought "Hi family!" was a nice way to normalize their family without shouting "BIG GAY FAMILY HERE!!!!"), I guess it leaves enough wiggle room for people who would be offended to still love the movie and tell themselves that the teenage girl is Oaken's sister, not his daughter, and anyone calling for a boycott of the movie would look really foolish. (Compare to the calls for a boycott of BatB because of LeFou - really, people...)

I hope Disney continues to normalize families of all genders and races. I suspect that they've got to tread a fine line not to alienate everyone, yet still keep pushing the envelope. There are certainly enough princesses out there whose orientation simply isn't discussed, who could all be potential gay princesses. Now that I think about it, though, I am probably coming around to your view that it will probably be years. Not because people aren't "ready" for a gay princess, but because right now, the princess' orientation would end up being THE story, that would swallow any other message or theme in the movie. And probably also run counter to normalizing non-white-cis-hetero families.

 

[earfulofmagic]

I googled upon a ~conservative~ website that was discussing the ending of Storks, and it made reference to How To Train Your Dragon 2, which led me to find this:

http://ew.com/article/2014/06/15/how-to-train-your-dragon-2-gobber-gay/

Ferguson ad-libbed the second part of the line, and director Dean DeBlois chose to keep it in. “The nice thing that Craig brought to it is, it’s such a hand-off line that I think for the older members of the audience, it’ll take them a moment to realize, like, ‘Did he just say what I think he said?'” says DeBlois. “And then you’re moving on. [The movie] treats it like normalcy, and that’s what I really like about it. Because I’m a gay man, and I don’t draw attention to myself for that reason. It’s just a fact of who I am, and the way the world is, and it’s nice to treat it as just a passing notion that isn’t something that people have to get so up in arms about. I think it makes people chuckle, and in every test screening we’ve had, it’s always gone over really well. I know there are probably a few people whose feathers it will ruffle, but you can’t worry too much about that. Particularly in 2014. It’s so prevalent out there, in TV shows and movies. It’s the norm, as it should be. I’m proud of it. It contributes to the daring and progressive quality of the storytelling of this [planned] trilogy.”
​

Totally forgot about that. I wonder how he felt about the BaTB ****storm in 2017, because I feel like there hasn't been much progress in animated entertainment between the two films. But there has been an increase in needing to worry about ruffled feathers. Like, huge flocks of people with very ruffled feathers.

 

[wilkeliza]

That is true but (and maybe we see what we want to see, and I want to see this!) at the same time I feel like the way the characters are sitting and how they look really suggests that blond guy (big, clearly an adult, sitting in the center, and clearly not related by blood to anyone else in the sauna) is the parent, and everyone else arranged in a circle around him, including the girl, all clearly look like exactly like each other. It's not like the possibly teenage girl looks like Oaken's sister, and the other younger kids don't look like a blend of teenage girl + blond guy. And while it would be nice to see the relationship called out more than it was (although I thought "Hi family!" was a nice way to normalize their family without shouting "BIG GAY FAMILY HERE!!!!"), I guess it leaves enough wiggle room for people who would be offended to still love the movie and tell themselves that the teenage girl is Oaken's sister, not his daughter, and anyone calling for a boycott of the movie would look really foolish. (Compare to the calls for a boycott of BatB because of LeFou - really, people...)

I hope Disney continues to normalize families of all genders and races. I suspect that they've got to tread a fine line not to alienate everyone, yet still keep pushing the envelope. There are certainly enough princesses out there whose orientation simply isn't discussed, who could all be potential gay princesses. Now that I think about it, though, I am probably coming around to your view that it will probably be years. Not because people aren't "ready" for a gay princess, but because right now, the princess' orientation would end up being THE story, that would swallow any other message or theme in the movie. And probably also run counter to normalizing non-white-cis-hetero families.

I think there is a lot of seeing what we want to. For representation sake I'm in the camp that until it is called out everything is just fan theory. Not against anyone who sees it that way I just have seen fan theories come to bite people in the butt when the writers finally decide to call something out and then people are upset. I do think Disney is toeing the line in many places right now and hope they take the full jump soon. If anything the Disney Junior and Disney channel shows show they don't care about the boy cotts that much.