How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[Lisa loves Pooh]

My bad, the link either updates or isn't the one I thought it was.

ETA: the NY Post ids this guy as Wilson http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...uard-ferguson-night-clashes-article-1.1906990

You know what?

Watching the interview provides much much more context. Probably the most believable witness yet. To me--the video with her interview speaks much louder than the screen shots.

NOW--with pause--

She does say there was a tussle at the car, but it wasn't clear what was going but it appeared that Mike was being pulled into the car (consistent with a collar grab that Dorian Johnson via his attorney said occurred--I missed if he said it was in or outside of the video.

And the most interesting part to me of her POV is how she is describing the pacing and body language of he officer (whom she believes is Wilson). ThAt resonated with me. Of course, that could also be the situation IF this was deemed justified. You kill someone, I cannot imagine it not affect you--even if you felt it was justified but wasn't.

ETA: also, the other officer, as The officer is talking to him, is actively radioing in information. Then the officer goes and talks to the guy with the white truck. (Yes shown in stills--but more clear when in context in video.)
So for me--video was MUCH more telling than blurry screenshots. That was not in the prior link. (NM: it was. Apologies!)

Still NOT proof of no injury, especially from that distance.


But for some reason (for me) than creates a more clear picture. I believe because she said she saw him shoot Mike in the face and then ran to get her phone to document because she knew something was very wrong. It is in conflict with the other video. But that video with the guys talking, you can tell at one point, when you see the patrol car lights, that their view of the car at that angle is blocked by a bush or some other greenery.

Though I love how she said she didn't release it earlier for her safety and the. Later says that was what her lawyers said. I also don't see why waiting for a name was so important.

 

[brunette8706]

Police officer severely beaten.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/

 

[pat fan]

If 5 white kids have drugs in their pocket... and 5 black kids have drugs in their pocket... and if black kids are more likely to be stopped and questioned than the white kids... at the end of the day more black kids are going to be arrested for possesion than white kids , simply because more are stopped and questioned thus providing more opportunity to be arrested ... it makes perfect numerical sense.

Also...if you don't do/hold drugs, they can stop you six days a week and twice on Sundays and you WON'T GET ARRESTED FOR DRUGS! Which has zip to do with this case, since drugs have nothing to do with it.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Police officer severely beaten.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/

Thanks for posting this. Can't wait to hear the loudest posters comments on it. Oh wait, let me guess " It's Fox News"

Also...if you don't do/hold drugs, they can stop you six days a week and twice on Sundays and you WON'T GET ARRESTED FOR DRUGS! Which has zip to do with this case, since drugs have nothing to do with it.

Pretty much what I said. Lousy argument to make a point.

 

[Suger Mag]

Also...if you don't do/hold drugs, they can stop you six days a week and twice on Sundays and you WON'T GET ARRESTED FOR DRUGS! Which has zip to do with this case, since drugs have nothing to do with it.

please see post #1450 for explanation... it was just an example to explain how more stops leads to more arrests...

 

[pat fan]

please see post #1450 for explanation... it was just an example to explain how more stops leads to more arrests...

Got it I admit I posted in haste because as soon as I read it I had to respond (patience is a virtue!) before finishing catching up on the rest of the thread. That logic just makes me crazy....short trip I assure you!

 

[Suger Mag]

Thanks for posting this. Can't wait to hear the loudest posters comments on it. Oh wait, let me guess " It's Fox News"

Pretty much what I said. Lousy argument to make a point.

Early on this thread got heated and many posters recieved infractions, myself included. Since it is looking like the time of ciivil discussion is ending again.. I will leave. Have a great night everyone, it has been fun to talk about this with many of you.

 

[brunette8706]

CNN is reporting it may take until mid October for the evidence to be presented to the grand jury.

Early on this thread got heated and many posters recieved infractions, myself included. Since it is looking like the time of ciivil discussion is ending again.. I will leave. Have a great night everyone, it has been fun to talk about this with many of you.

Why leave? Don't be ridiculous. Please stay. Just take a deep breath and continue to post.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Thanks for posting this. Can't wait to hear the loudest posters comments on it. Oh wait, let me guess " It's Fox News"



Pretty much what I said. Lousy argument to make a point.

I'll comment on it.
The video linked above shows Officer Wilson moments after the shooting. There is nothing about his demeanor to suggest he has a fracture and was nearly beaten unconscious. The autopsy released states there is no evidence on Brown's body of a struggle or fight (can't remember the exact wording). If he nearly beat Wilson unconsious there'd likely be some evidence of that.

The following quote was taken from the fox linked article. Until something more than an anonymous source comes out, it's all nothing more than a rumor.

. A spokesman for the St. Louis County Police Department, citing the ongoing investigation, declined late Wednesday to say whether Wilson required medical treatment following the altercation.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Early on this thread got heated and many posters recieved infractions, myself included. Since it is looking like the time of ciivil discussion is ending again.. I will leave. Have a great night everyone, it has been fun to talk about this with many of you.

alrighty then Goodnight to you

 

[sunshinehighway]

Early on this thread got heated and many posters recieved infractions, myself included. Since it is looking like the time of ciivil discussion is ending again.. I will leave. Have a great night everyone, it has been fun to talk about this with many of you.

Don't let the ridiculous posts run you off...just ignore them. While some posters clearly just want to post outrageous things and be argumentative, there are plenty of others that are making an interesting discussion.

 

[brunette8706]

Thanks for posting this. Can't wait to hear the loudest posters comments on it. Oh wait, let me guess " It's Fox News"

.

Yeah. I know.

 

[Geoff_M]

She does say there was a tussle at the car, but it wasn't clear what was going but it appeared that Mike was being pulled into the car (consistent with a collar grab that Dorian Johnson via his attorney said occurred--I missed if he said it was in or outside of the video.

It might be interesting to revisit Dorian Johnson's description what he said he witnessed in the initial lengthy MSNBC interview that was the narrative that so many people have used to form their initial opinions of the incident. One thing you'll note it that Johnson didn't merely say Brown was grabbed by his collar, it was his neck:

After telling the officer that they were almost at their destination, Johnson’s house, the two continued walking. But as they did, Johnson says the officer slammed his brakes and threw his truck in reverse, nearly hitting them.

Now, in line with the officer’s driver’s side door, they could see the officer’s face. They heard him say something to the effect of, “what’d you say?” At the same time, Johnson says the officer attempted to thrust his door open but the door slammed into Brown and bounced closed. Johnson says the officer, with his left hand, grabbed Brown by the neck.

“I could see the muscles in his forearm,” Johnson said. “Mike was trying to get away from being choked.”

“They’re not wrestling so much as his arm went from his throat to now clenched on his shirt,” Johnson explained of the scene between Brown and the officer. “It’s like tug of war. He’s trying to pull him in. He’s pulling away, that’s when I heard, ‘I’m gonna shoot you.’”

At that moment, Johnson says he fixed his gaze on the officer to see if he was pulling a stun gun or a real gun. That’s when he saw the muzzle of the officer’s gun.

“I seen the barrel of the gun pointed at my friend,” he said. “He had it pointed at him and said ‘I’ll shoot,’ one more time.”

A second later Johnson said he heard the first shot go off.

So, to recap, per Johnson:
1) Wilson succeed in surprising Brown and suddenly reached out and began to choke the 6' 4" man, with muscles bulging, while still inside the vehicle.
2) Wilson then apparently began the process of, for reasons unknown, to try and pull the 292 lb. Brown through the driver's side window and on top of the officer.
3) Wilson then released Brown's neck and then grabbed Brown's shirt with one hand, and managed to retain control of Brown against his efforts to jerk away from the officer all the while.
4) While Wilson securely held Brown with one hand, Wilson then was able to draw his pistol and point it at Brown and threaten his life.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Where are the facts? What's news?

Fox cites an unnamed source. Then goes on to say named sources would not provide information. Still need to wait for people to testify under oath or provide records. No leaks from the medical professionals treating. No police higher up saying for attribution that he took him to the hospital and the doc reported x,y or z injuries.

We just need to keep waiting.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

sure... white kids don't do drugs... LOL

I used that only as an example of how the stats work. More opportunity to be questioned means more opportunity to be arrested for whatever.

A) you know that's not what I was suggesting, so I really don't appreciate that.

B) my point is, it's like the chicken & the egg. Do they get caught because they're under the microscope? Or, do they hang out under the microscope, so they therefore get caught?


The quote earlier indicated whites & blacks being hassled at a different rate within the same neighborhoods. But, let's be real for a minute - in the very poor neighborhoods where crime is rampant (and no, Ferguson isn't such a place), these neighborhoods are often VERY segregated. The "bad" neighborhoods in my area are almost exclusively white. The "bad" neighborhoods within STL city limits are almost exclusively black. And the two are patrolled by an entirely different group of officers. Any direct comparison is going to be apples & oranges.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I had a thought pop in my head as I read this concerning whether whites or blacks are stopped more or less often.

But my experience seems to be that blacks are more likely to live in a city where white tend to live in more rural areas. Maybe I'm wrong but if you live inside city limits it's more of a likely hood that you'll encounter a police officer simply due to their presence.

Rural areas are patrolled by county and state while in a city setting you could encounter city, county, and state. I'm just thinking out loud.

There are many variables in play and yes...location makes a difference.

 

[Luvchefmic]

I'll comment on it.
The video linked above shows Officer Wilson moments after the shooting. There is nothing about his demeanor to suggest he has a fracture and was nearly beaten unconscious. The autopsy released states there is no evidence on Brown's body of a struggle or fight (can't remember the exact wording). If he nearly beat Wilson unconsious there'd likely be some evidence of that.

The following quote was taken from the fox linked article. Until something more than an anonymous source comes out, it's all nothing more than a rumor.

I would say that his demeanor can be interpreted many different ways. Ever been to a scene of a crime in real life or the scene of a very bad accident ? I have. People react in many different ways to a traumatic life incident and don't kid yourself, who ever was right or wrong here, this was a trauma for the cop.

Maybe outside of the range he never fired a gun and this was the 1st time. I don't know. That adrenalin was certainly flowing, there was probably a pounding in his ears and the whole thing at that point seemed surreal...perhaps that is what you are seeing. We can give 10,000 different opinions and it won't change a thing.

Even an expert like Dr Baden can't say anything definite yet.


Dr. Baden provided a diagram of the entry wounds, and noted that the six shots produced numerous wounds. Some of the bullets entered and exited several times, including one that left at least five different wounds.

“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.”

He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.


Link for the whole article ( may have been posted here already )

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Racial profiling?

Is it racial profiling or neighborhood profiling?


We have a temendous meth problem in my county - we've sadly been featured on more than one national program on the topic. But, we also have a murder rate of 1 in 100,000. The rate in STL city is FIFTY times our rate. And even at that, a handful of specific neighborhoods are over represented in those stats.

Needless to say, the police approach is vastly different.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It might be interesting to revisit Dorian Johnson's description what he said he witnessed in the initial lengthy MSNBC interview that was the narrative that so many people have used to form their initial opinions of the incident. One thing you'll note it that Johnson didn't merely say Brown was grabbed by his collar, it was his neck:

So, to recap, per Johnson:
1) Wilson succeed in surprising Brown and suddenly reached out and began to choke the 6' 4" man while still inside the vehicle.
2) Wilson then apparently began the process of, for reasons unknown, to try and pull the 292 lb. Brown through the driver's side window and on top of the officer.
3) Wilson then released Brown's neck and then grabbed Brown's shirt with one hand, and managed to retain control of Brown against his efforts to jerk away from the officer all the while.
4) While Wilson securely held Brown with one hand, Wilson then was able to draw his pistol and point it at Brown and threaten his life.

I was having trouble keeping up with what the attorney said. But apparently the legal statement was a collar grab. He said additional after that, but I missed it.

Defense attorneys would have to remember to mention the MSNBC interview

Dorian's a attorney didn't say all 4 of those steps though. So maybe he is leaving out a bit. I don't know how you could grab anyone while seated in a car. I cannot even reach the ATM without unbuckling and "standing" to extend my arm or even popping open the door to physically stand up. But I'm only 5'5".

(As you can tell, I do a lot of if it were me comparisons to try and picture how something is physically possible.)

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'll comment on it.
The video linked above shows Officer Wilson moments after the shooting. There is nothing about his demeanor to suggest he has a fracture and was nearly beaten unconscious. The autopsy released states there is no evidence on Brown's body of a struggle or fight (can't remember the exact wording). If he nearly beat Wilson unconsious there'd likely be some evidence of that.

The following quote was taken from the fox linked article. Until something more than an anonymous source comes out, it's all nothing more than a rumor.

If - as I speculated - Wilson was injured by being bashed with the car door rather than being punched, there would be little evidence of a struggle on Brown's body.