How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[Lisa loves Pooh]

People speak on the condition of anonymity all the time. Journalists have chosen to go to jail rather than reveal source.

Went to the Newseum with my kids in July. They have one part of a display dedicated to anonymous sources. Prominent was a display on a female journalist who was jailed for not naming a source. (I'm too lazy to look her up.)

And being neutral here--unnamed and anonymous sources are used often. Usually towards the last resort kind of things. But it is when the source wants to get something out but doesn't want to be on the record for a host of reasons. Sometimes, it is the ONLY way we get the truth.

To name the source compromises the source in some way. And it would also indicate the journalist cannot be trusted and would never be given that amount of confidence again.

 

[Geoff_M]

Went to the Newseum with my kids in July. They have one part of a display dedicated to anonymous sources. Prominent was a display on a female journalist who was jailed for not naming a source. (I'm too lazy to look her up.)

Odds are it was Judith Miller.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You are right about what is the heart of the matter.

The issue I have with this fracture information is people are taking it as proof Brown attacked Officer Wilson and as a reason for him to fear Brown enough to shoot him.

I actually think it's somewhat funny that people are complaining about the media coverage being too slanted and then totally believe something only being reported by such a slanted website.

I'm not. I'm awaiting confirmation.

Conversely--folks insinuating it couldn't have been that bad because of XYZ are no better.

It is a plausible injury give what has been officially reported from the beginning. (Swollen face)

And it as just as plausible as the autopsy diagram suggesting that hands up is a plausible posture for Mike Brown to have been in.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Could the recoil of firing a handgun from a seated position cause facial injuries? I've done a little searching and there is recoil from these firearms, more if they are higher caliber. I'm just wondering, if you are seated and not in a firing stance, could the recoil or snap cause a facial injury?

I have trouble picturing that.

I have a friend who shot some type of shot gun/rifle. Recoil hurt her shoulder. I cannot imagine a handgun that cops would use would have so much recoil that they'd effectively be punching themselves. It is inconsistent with any shooting posture I have seen which is admittedly limited to what I have seen on mythbusters.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Hmmmm... this is a potential new wrinkle to the 'narrative'.. still trying to find more sources and a better view... but some folks are taking a closer look at the "robbery video"... and coming to the conclusion that perhaps it was not a robbery, seems that only portions of the video were released by the Ferguson PD.

In the video Brown can be seen approaching the cash register and starts paying for cigars... he does not have enough for all the cigars chosen so he pays for some and then 'pushes' the "extras" back across the counter... this causes the clerk to come around the corner and speak with Brown who then pushed him after the clerk places his hand on Brown.

I remember that the original video clip (from the Ferguson PD) I watched only started when he pushes the cigars across the counter... not when he approached the counter.

IF... and I repeat a big IF... this is true, then Brown was not stealing... and was walking home from the store... not as a thief...but as a person who had finished shopping. That would go to explaining why he was hostile on being stopped and questioned by Officer Wilson after jaywalking (someone has stated that they did not understand why Brown acted like he did walking down the street and calling attention to himself if he had just robbed a store)

here are all the links I have found so far to this theory. Watch the full video yourself and see what you think?

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

http://aattp.org/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-to-show-brown-paying-for-cigarillos-video/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017210083

in addition the store has retained an attorney and is claiming that NO one from the store called (owner or employee) and reported the robbery... rather a customer called and gave a statement.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft

Interesting...

That certainly would be a hindrance to anything that indicated Mike Brown had the mindset where he was concerned for a (legit) arrest. If he felt the officer was giving him a hard time for nothing--that is a bit different.

It does mean there is no robbery to indicate he is really a "thug". It does not prove that he did not do anything to the officer though. It does make that less likely, not sure how much given it has been admitted on this thread, by nature of his race --he may have had a distrust of the officer anyway. Which may have played into things.

But no robbery and no criminal history means--just a man in the street that day and nothing less.

 

[Suger Mag]

I won't argue with the more likely to be stopped but the more likely to be arrested and charged..makes not a damn bit of sense. Charged and arrested with what?

If 5 white kids have drugs in their pocket... and 5 black kids have drugs in their pocket... and if black kids are more likely to be stopped and questioned than the white kids... at the end of the day more black kids are going to be arrested for possesion than white kids , simply because more are stopped and questioned thus providing more opportunity to be arrested ... it makes perfect numerical sense.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It could, but it would almost certainly break the skin.



One theory I have is that he was hit in the face with the car door rather than punched.

While not a car door--I've bumped my face into doors and of hurts. With enough leverage, they physics of slamming a metal door into someone's face could cause a pretty serious injury.

 

[rickybobby]

It isn't just about "showing kids", though. It is also about addressing a system that stacks the deck against them in the first place. For example, using stats from the NYT article linked upthread - Ferguson is 63% black, but blacks account for 86% of all traffic stops and 92% of all arrests in the city. A lot of those young black people who are ineligible for police service and college aid are guilty of nothing more than most of their eligible white counterparts. They're just more likely to be stopped and therefore more likely to be arrested and charged. So it isn't just about communicating to these kids that it is possible to break the cycle. It is about getting through to them that the world isn't fair, that they'll have to hold themselves to a higher standard than white kids to achieve the same outcomes, and to somehow present this information in a way that they will accept and internalize without rebellion or anger. Either that or somehow changing the system so that it truly becomes color blind and things that are dismissed as "youthful mistakes" in white kids are no longer treated as life-changing criminal matters for black youth.

Please, this is just more or "its not your fault no matter what you do".

 

[OurBigTrip]

I do if they are saying their information has been confirmed by the police department. A legit journalist would be clear that their source is anonymous and not from an official police statement.

I don't expect them to give up their source, even if it is from the police department, but I don't give the same weight to an anonymous police source as I do to an official press release from the police...if that makes sense.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't expect them to give up their source, even if it is from the police department, but I don't give the same weight to an anonymous police source as I do to an official press release from the police...if that makes sense.

No one ever should.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

If 5 white kids have drugs in their pocket... and 5 black kids have drugs in their pocket... and if black kids are more likely to be stopped and questioned than the white kids... at the end of the day more black kids are going to be arrested for possesion than white kids , simply because more are stopped and questioned thus providing more opportunity to be arrested ... it makes perfect numerical sense.

In theory, sure.

OTOH, can we really assume that white kids & black kids are statistically as likely to be holding drugs (or any other crime)?

 

[Suger Mag]

In theory, sure.

OTOH, can we really assume that white kids & black kids are statistically as likely to be holding drugs (or any other crime)?

sure... white kids don't do drugs... LOL

I used that only as an example of how the stats work. More opportunity to be questioned means more opportunity to be arrested for whatever.

 

[livie1205]

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.

“The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side,” said the insider. “He was beaten very severely.”

The info is now on many media outlets. If people choose to believe or not believe is up to them, these are just the reports.If you have reason to believe one side or the other I am sure none of this will change that.My own personal opinion is that he attacked the officer and the officer used deadly force to protect himself, now if the facts come out to support another story I can accept that also.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I have trouble picturing that.

I have a friend who shot some type of shot gun/rifle. Recoil hurt her shoulder. I cannot imagine a handgun that cops would use would have so much recoil that they'd effectively be punching themselves. It is inconsistent with any shooting posture I have seen which is admittedly limited to what I have seen on mythbusters.

Keep in mind that, according to the rumors attributed to "friends" of the officer, there was a struggle in the car with Brown through the window grabbing for the weapon, both were holding on to it, and it at one point the weapon was turned towards the officer. Does that comport with any shooting posture that would provide a stable shooting platform?

Now that I write that, even upholstering the weapon seems to require contortions that would make Rose Mary Woods proud.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Popped the tv I and happened to be on MSNBC and Al Sharpton's show. He has Dorian Johnson's attorney is on.

1. Johnson did not recant story.
2. Johnson said officer said to get the F out of the street when they are walking.

Talking faster than I can type and I cannot keep up.

Dorian says to mike they are almost where they are going and to just keep walking. Mike says nothing. Cop puts car in reverse and says what did you say. Then gets out of car and grabs Mike and (forgot what was said here) and then officer said I can shoot you. Then cop fired. They start running. Mike tells Dorian to keep running. Cars were behind cop car and blocked after. Shots fired.


What is missing is the claim of hands up don't shoot.

But per Dorian--Mike didn't say much. The lawyer was talking a bit faster than I could type, so I missed what Mike may have responded to the officer after the alleged collar grab.

But no recant despite any "reports" that stated his story changed.


Happened to be on at this very moment when I turned TV on, so thought I would share.

Attorney also said that Dorian was questioned for 3 hours (not 4 as Al Sharpton had believed) and that questions were asked on way and then later on another and that his story was consistent every time. The reason for Al asking was had he was asking if the attorney felt the Fed investigation was proceeding as it should and fair. Attorney did not respond in anyway negative about that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Keep in mind that, according to the rumors attributed to "friends" of the officer, there was a struggle in the car with Brown through the window grabbing for the weapon, both were holding on to it, and it at one point the weapon was turned towards the officer. Does that comport with any shooting posture that would provide a stable shooting platform?

Now that I write that, even upholstering the weapon seems to require contortions that would make Rose Mary Woods proud.

Mythbusters never struggle. So I don't know.

But Dorian's statement does not match this story. Other witnesses would need to confirm this struggle. If it happened, Dorian is conveniently leaving that out.

Lawyer failed to confirm that Dorian had already admitted the theft of the cigars.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

sure... white kids don't do drugs... LOL

I used that only as an example of how the stats work. More opportunity to be questioned means more opportunity to be arrested for whatever.

What is the rate of drugs by race? Of course white kids do drugs. Do thy do it at a higher, lower, or similar incident rate than their black counterparts?

 

[Suger Mag]

What is the rate of drugs by race? Of course white kids do drugs. Do thy do it at a higher, lower, or similar incident rate than their black counterparts?

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...he-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

drugs seem to be more of a white crime...

 

[CPT Tripss]

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.

“The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side,” said the insider. “He was beaten very severely.”

The info is now on many media outlets. If people choose to believe or not believe is up to them, these are just the reports.If you have reason to believe one side or the other I am sure none of this will change that.My own personal opinion is that he attacked the officer and the officer used deadly force to protect himself, now if the facts come out to support another story I can accept that also.

Beaten so severely that the cops on the scene after the shooting were attending to him? No, not really . . . He is standing on his own without his brother officers rendering first aid.

See the five screen caps from the Crenshaw video here - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...uard-ferguson-night-clashes-article-1.1906990

 

[TLSnell1981]

Lawyer failed to confirm that Dorian had already admitted the theft of the cigars.

Yeah, why admit to the theft, if it didn't happen? It's a bit odd, considering the claims, that Brown paid for the items.