How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[Disneychick75]

So you'd be fine with some site with an obvious pro Brown slant reporting something as confirmed fact based only on an anonymous source?
They can report it if they want but that doesn't make the information true. If you want to form an opinion based on that, go right ahead but remember there's just as much chance of it being false as there is that it's true.

So many of the stories we've see and heard have no sources. Sources have been unnamed friends, neighbors, and witnesses.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Did you see Spike on CNN last night? I guess the jig is up, Spike has a copy of the white police coverup playbook.

OMG. He's INSANE! Spike even defended the knife wielding guy and blamed the police department. He's lost every ounce of credibility and decency.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

Just my opinion, but I think even if the applicants were qualified few would apply. There is a very deep distrust of police in some communities and it has a ripple effect. The communities wouldn't like a police officer in their midst for a lot of reasons (hampers criminal activity --good for some not for others, us vs them mentality --- switching sides, etc.). Who wants to be an outsider in their own community? They could be putting their lives at risk by joining. Staying away is understandable.

Additionally, crime unfortunately pays. The choice many have is selling drugs for a premium or flipping burgers for minimum wage. That's not much of a choice even though the consequences are high.

Certain communities are a den of criminal activity. That's just a fact. Then you overlay the ramifications of that reality and it isn't pretty for anyone. It's hard on the residents because police suspect everyone at some point I imagine. There is a code of no snitching. Physical violence on both sides law/criminals. It's a tough place to be. Either side. In fact it sounds a lot like a living hell especially for the residents that want out and can't leave for financial reasons.

I guess my point in all of this is it's a vicious cycle with many contributing factors.

Capt Johnson has been walking with the marchers and doing everything in his power to restore peace to Ferguson and he has already been called an "uncle Tom" a few times on TV. For whatever reason a black person becoming a police officer is seen by many as being a traitor to your race.

You can't have it both ways, either show the black officers respect or quit complaining there are so few black officers.

 

[sunshinehighway]

In the end, the officer's injuries or lack thereof aren't really important.



Did Brown attempt to peacefully surrender?
Or, did Brown attempt to rush the officer?

You are right about what is the heart of the matter.

The issue I have with this fracture information is people are taking it as proof Brown attacked Officer Wilson and as a reason for him to fear Brown enough to shoot him.

I actually think it's somewhat funny that people are complaining about the media coverage being too slanted and then totally believe something only being reported by such a slanted website.

 

[sunshinehighway]

So many of the stories we've see and heard have no sources. Sources have been unnamed friends, neighbors, and witnesses.

You can form your opinion however you want. If you want to use biased websites and unnamed friends and neighbors to do so, go ahead. I don't care how you form your opinion. You want to believe Officer Wilson has an orbital fracture, go for it.

 

[sunshinehighway]

OMG. He's INSANE! Spike even defended the knife wielding guy and blamed the police department. He's lost every ounce of credibility and decency.

Spike Lee really should just be ignored.

 

[Geoff_M]

In this case because its so high profile, the police probably wouldn't be confirming information in that way. They are most likely trying to keep tight control on what is released to the public.

Which points out a rather interesting dichotomy. The police in such cases are normally constrained by investigative procedure about what they can and cannot say about such investigations in the early going. However, the families of the deceased are not under such restrictions and they, and/or their appointed spokespersons, lawyers, or aligned activists are more than willing to give information to the media and be interviewed and it has the effect of shaping early opinions about the narratives of the events.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

Could the recoil of firing a handgun from a seated position cause facial injuries? I've done a little searching and there is recoil from these firearms, more if they are higher caliber. I'm just wondering, if you are seated and not in a firing stance, could the recoil or snap cause a facial injury?

 

[Geoff_M]

Did Brown attempt to peacefully surrender?
Or, did Brown attempt to rush the officer?

Or the 3rd option of feigning cooperation and then trying to bum rush the officer. (Still no notion of which was the case.)

 

[Disneychick75]

Could the recoil of firing a handgun from a seated position cause facial injuries? I've done a little searching and there is recoil from these firearms, more if they are higher caliber. I'm just wondering, if you are seated and not in a firing stance, could the recoil or snap cause a facial injury?

Sure it could have.

 

[Suger Mag]

Hmmmm... this is a potential new wrinkle to the 'narrative'.. still trying to find more sources and a better view... but some folks are taking a closer look at the "robbery video"... and coming to the conclusion that perhaps it was not a robbery, seems that only portions of the video were released by the Ferguson PD.

In the video Brown can be seen approaching the cash register and starts paying for cigars... he does not have enough for all the cigars chosen so he pays for some and then 'pushes' the "extras" back across the counter... this causes the clerk to come around the corner and speak with Brown who then pushed him after the clerk places his hand on Brown.

I remember that the original video clip (from the Ferguson PD) I watched only started when he pushes the cigars across the counter... not when he approached the counter.

IF... and I repeat a big IF... this is true, then Brown was not stealing... and was walking home from the store... not as a thief...but as a person who had finished shopping. That would go to explaining why he was hostile on being stopped and questioned by Officer Wilson after jaywalking (someone has stated that they did not understand why Brown acted like he did walking down the street and calling attention to himself if he had just robbed a store)

here are all the links I have found so far to this theory. Watch the full video yourself and see what you think?

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

http://aattp.org/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-to-show-brown-paying-for-cigarillos-video/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017210083

in addition the store has retained an attorney and is claiming that NO one from the store called (owner or employee) and reported the robbery... rather a customer called and gave a statement.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft

Interesting...

 

[Disneychick75]

So you'd be fine with some site with an obvious pro Brown slant reporting something as confirmed fact based only on an anonymous source?
They can report it if they want but that doesn't make the information true. If you want to form an opinion based on that, go right ahead but remember there's just as much chance of it being false as there is that it's true.

So many of the stories we've see and heard have no sources. Sources have been unnamed friends, neighbors, and witnesses.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

The Ferguson riots remind me of the Cincinnati riots in 2001. After those riots, the police were under a microscope. The downtown area where the riots occurred became very dangerous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

I was thinking about the similarities between the Ferguson riots and LA riots the other night and completely forgot about the Cincinnati riots, it's been over 20 years since the LA riots and in many ways not much has changed in the inner cities.

How is it people can come into this country that don't even speak English and find success within a generation or 2 but so many in the black community have been stuck in perpetual poverty and crime for generations? Is it lack of opportunity, lack of family structure, lack of education, lack of hope, social conditioning, etc, etc, etc?

I just don't get it, there are a plenty of success stories of people in the black community pulling themselves out of poverty but it still seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I read an article that 72% of black kids grow up without a dad, is it as simple as dads are abandoning their kids which makes them an easy target for the gangs ruling the neighborhoods?

20 years ago was the stone ages compared to today, it's amazing to me that we've come so far technologically and socially but the black community seems to be stuck in the past.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

Hmmmm... this is a potential new wrinkle to the 'narrative'.. still trying to find more sources and a better view... but some folks are taking a closer look at the "robbery video"... and coming to the conclusion that perhaps it was not a robbery, seems that only portions of the video were released by the Ferguson PD.

In the video Brown can be seen approaching the cash register and starts paying for cigars... he does not have enough for all the cigars chosen so he pays for some and then 'pushes' the "extras" back across the counter... this causes the clerk to come around the corner and speak with Brown who then pushed him after the clerk places his hand on Brown.

I remember that the original video clip (from the Ferguson PD) I watched only started when he pushes the cigars across the counter... not when he approached the counter.

IF... and I repeat a big IF... this is true, then Brown was not stealing... and was walking home from the store... not as a thief...but as a person who had finished shopping. That would go to explaining why he was hostile on being stopped and questioned by Officer Wilson after jaywalking (someone has stated that they did not understand why Brown acted like he did walking down the street and calling attention to himself if he had just robbed a store)

here are all the links I have found so far to this theory. Watch the full video yourself and see what you think?

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

http://aattp.org/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-to-show-brown-paying-for-cigarillos-video/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017210083

in addition the store has retained an attorney and is claiming that NO one from the store called (owner or employee) and reported the robbery... rather a customer called and gave a statement.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft

Interesting...

I thought it already came out he tried to buy the cigars and the clerk wouldn't sell them to him because he was only 18. He may have tried to buy the cigars but the clerk said no and then he just took them and left his money on the counter. Not a cut and dry robbery but only possible because he used violence and a threat to get past the clerk trying to stop him.

ETA: After reading so many posts about biased reporting I had to chuckle because I couldn't even read the links you posted. The first link went to a site with Gun Nut and Right Wing in the top 2 headlines on the home page. The 2nd pages top headline was titled "another responsible gun owner kills". The 3rd link has an Americans against the Tea Party logo as their banner along with White Privilege in the first headline. I didn't even bother checking the DailyKOS or democraticunderground because I already knew they were very left leaning sites.

None of this means the stories aren't true but those links aren't going to convince anyone on the other side because they are just as biased as the far right leaning websites.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Could the recoil of firing a handgun from a seated position cause facial injuries? I've done a little searching and there is recoil from these firearms, more if they are higher caliber. I'm just wondering, if you are seated and not in a firing stance, could the recoil or snap cause a facial injury?

It could, but it would almost certainly break the skin.



One theory I have is that he was hit in the face with the car door rather than punched.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Hmmmm... this is a potential new wrinkle to the 'narrative'.. still trying to find more sources and a better view... but some folks are taking a closer look at the "robbery video"... and coming to the conclusion that perhaps it was not a robbery, seems that only portions of the video were released by the Ferguson PD.

In the video Brown can be seen approaching the cash register and starts paying for cigars... he does not have enough for all the cigars chosen so he pays for some and then 'pushes' the "extras" back across the counter... this causes the clerk to come around the corner and speak with Brown who then pushed him after the clerk places his hand on Brown.

I remember that the original video clip (from the Ferguson PD) I watched only started when he pushes the cigars across the counter... not when he approached the counter.

IF... and I repeat a big IF... this is true, then Brown was not stealing... and was walking home from the store... not as a thief...but as a person who had finished shopping. That would go to explaining why he was hostile on being stopped and questioned by Officer Wilson after jaywalking (someone has stated that they did not understand why Brown acted like he did walking down the street and calling attention to himself if he had just robbed a store)

here are all the links I have found so far to this theory. Watch the full video yourself and see what you think?

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

http://aattp.org/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-to-show-brown-paying-for-cigarillos-video/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017210083

in addition the store has retained an attorney and is claiming that NO one from the store called (owner or employee) and reported the robbery... rather a customer called and gave a statement.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft

Interesting...

I did read the store owner was not the one to contact police to report the robbery and he was surprised when the police came for the surveillance videos. . Apparently his lawyer came out and said that. I took that with a huge grain of salt though because it was after a very bad night of lawlessness and I figured he was just afraid and trying to protect himself.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I thought it already came out he tried to buy the cigars and the clerk wouldn't sell them to him because he was only 18. He may have tried to buy the cigars but the clerk said no and then he just took them and left his money on the counter. Not a cut and dry robbery but only possible because he used violence and a threat to get past the clerk trying to stop him.

I never heard that one. Why wouldn't he be able to buy them at 18?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I thought it already came out he tried to buy the cigars and the clerk wouldn't sell them to him because he was only 18. He may have tried to buy the cigars but the clerk said no and then he just took them and left his money on the counter. Not a cut and dry robbery but only possible because he used violence and a threat to get past the clerk trying to stop him.

Either way, the assault on the clerk (even though he wasn't injured) is more serious crime than petty theft.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I never heard that one. Why wouldn't he be able to buy them at 18?

No I.D.??

 

[Suger Mag]

I thought it already came out he tried to buy the cigars and the clerk wouldn't sell them to him because he was only 18. He may have tried to buy the cigars but the clerk said no and then he just took them and left his money on the counter. Not a cut and dry robbery but only possible because he used violence and a threat to get past the clerk trying to stop him.

ETA: After reading so many posts about biased reporting I had to chuckle because I couldn't even read the links you posted. The first link went to a site with Gun Nut and Right Wing in the top 2 headlines on the home page. The 2nd pages top headline was titled "another responsible gun owner kills". The 3rd link has an Americans against the Tea Party logo as their banner along with White Privilege in the first headline. I didn't even bother checking the DailyKOS or democraticunderground because I already knew they were very left leaning sites.

None of this means the stories aren't true but those links aren't going to convince anyone on the other side because they are just as biased as the far right leaning websites.

LOL... So what if they are left leaning... All I asked was that Folks watch the full video and talk about what they may or not see in it... don't worry it is not contagious...