How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[Missy1961]

Nothing will be done to the looters - the "good" people of Ferguson and the U.S. Justice Department won't allow it.

Whatever.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Because very simply. people I love and respected fought and died for my right to be free of gestapo tactics.

In the US a person is presumed INNOCENT until proven otherwise. So if I've done nothing wrong, the assumption must ALWAYS, ALWAYS be that until you have proof or probable cause that it is other wise. I AM INNOCENT.

That means you do not have the right to "seize" or "search" or unlawfully detain me.

Now I am not going to escalate the situation but I am always going to ask, "is there a problem". If the officer says "no problem" than no I am not telling you my name, no I am not showing you id. In this country I get to walk down the street without id or telling my name to anyone be they, doctor, lawyer, indian chief or a cop.

If you think I am involved in some thing illegal, than you tell me what the problem is and we discuss.

Even the ACLU states that it's best to cooperate with the police.

https://www.aclu.org/drug-law-refor...ial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you#2

IF YOU ARE STOPPED FOR QUESTIONING
Stay calm. Don't run. Don't argue, resist or obstruct the police, even if you are innocent or police are violating your rights. Keep your hands where police can see them.
Ask if you are free to leave. If the officer says yes, calmly and silently walk away. If you are under arrest, you have a right to know why.
You have the right to remain silent and cannot be punished for refusing to answer questions. If you wish to remain silent, tell the officer out loud. In some states, you must give your name if asked to identify yourself.
You do not have to consent to a search of yourself or your belongings, but police may "pat down" your clothing if they suspect a weapon. You should not physically resist, but you have the right to refuse consent for any further search. If you do consent, it can affect you later in court.

IF YOU ARE STOPPED IN YOUR CAR
Stop the car in a safe place as quickly as possible. Turn off the car, turn on the internal light, open the window part way and place your hands on the wheel.
Upon request, show police your driver's license, registration and proof of insurance.
If an officer or immigration agent asks to look inside your car, you can refuse to consent to the search. But if police believe your car contains evidence of a crime, your car can be searched without your consent.
Both drivers and passengers have the right to remain silent. If you are a passenger, you can ask if you are free to leave. If the officer says yes, sit silently or calmly leave. Even if the officer says no, you have the right to remain silent.

IF YOU FEEL YOUR RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED
Remember: police misconduct cannot be challenged on the street. Don't physically resist officers or threaten to file a complaint.
Write down everything you remember, including officers' badge and patrol car numbers, which agency the officers were from, and any other details. Get contact information for witnesses. If you are injured, take photographs of your injuries (but seek medical attention first).
File a written complaint with the agency's internal affairs division or civilian complaint board. In most cases, you can file a complaint anonymously if you wish.
Call your local ACLU or visit www.aclu.org/profiling.

 

[Disneychick75]

Because in America we have this silly thing called the bill of rights. I know it's antiquated but it's got stuff like, you don't get to search and seize me just because your a cop, you don't get to pull me out of my car just because your a cop. You don't get to stop me and ask me intrusive questions without probable cause.

Silly stuff like that.

Was there a new law saying police are above being challenged"

Not saying I like it but it's the law:
You do need probable cause and of course, this may or may not be manufactured.
Officers may make warrantless searches and seizures if they find that exigent( pressing) circumstances exist and that they have probable cause. An exigent circumstance exists when an officer has a compelling need to take official action but lacks the time needed to get a warrant. Determining probable cause in this context requires a consideration of the totality of the circumstances to determine whether an officer acted in accord with a high probability that the search would turn up contraband or evidence. The decision-maker must examine the facts making up the totality of the circumstances from the viewpoint of an objectively reasonable officer before making the arrest.

From wiki- I know but legal sites go on for days to say the same thing:
An exigent circumstance, in the criminal procedure law of the United States, allows law enforcement, under certain circumstances, to enter a structure without a search warrant or, if they have a "knock and announce" warrant, without knocking and waiting for refusal. It must be a situation where people are in imminent danger, evidence faces imminent destruction, or a suspect's imminent escape. Once entry is obtained, the plain view doctrine applies, allowing the seizure of any evidence or contraband discovered in the course actions consequent upon the exigent circumstances.
xigent circumstances may make a warrantless search constitutional if probable cause exists. The existence of exigent circumstances is a mixed question of law and fact.[3] There is no absolute test for determining if exigent circumstances exist, but general factors have been identified, which include clear evidence of probable cause; the seriousness of the offense and likelihood of destruction of evidence; limitations on the search to minimize the intrusion only to preventing destruction of evidence; and clear indications of exigency.

Exigency may be determined by degree of urgency involved, amount of time needed to get a search warrant, whether evidence is about to be removed or destroyed, danger at the site, knowledge of the suspect that police are on the trail, and/or ready destructibility of the evidence.[4] In determining the time necessary to obtain a warrant, a telephonic warrant should be considered. As electronic data may be altered or eradicated in seconds, in a factually compelling case, the doctrine of exigent circumstances will support a warrantless seizure.

Even in exigent circumstances, while a warrantless seizure may be permitted, a subsequent warrant to search may still be necessary.[5]


Miranda rights

In New Jersey, in State v. Boretsky the court held that the emergency aid doctrine overrode the need to Mirandize a suspect, even in the face of ambiguous or equivocal assertions of the right to legal representation.

 

[eliza61]

lol.

a time or two. Once I was in a bar and the cops came in asking everyone where they lived and if they had id. I did just what I said above.

Why do you want to know where I live and no I do not have any id. The cop then asked me, why I did not have id and I said because I don't need it right now.

I then asked, "what's the problem officer" and he said " no problem". to which I said, "have a nice night"

My sons have been removed out of their car and had it searched (which there is a class action suit in progress).

When that crazy women said two black males hijacked her and her daughter only to be found in the Grand Floridian. cops in PA lost there minds and randomly started pulling African American males over, making them sit on the side of the highway, while they searched their cars.

Now I live in Philly, a city that is well known for it's police brutality and corruption.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Because in America we have this silly thing called the bill of rights. I know it's antiquated but it's got stuff like, you don't get to search and seize me just because your a cop, you don't get to pull me out of my car just because your a cop. You don't get to stop me and ask me intrusive questions without probable cause.

Silly stuff like that.

Was there a new law saying police are above being challenged"

So common sense, just left the building? Why act like you have something to hide? What's wrong with being respectful and cooperative...avoid an confrontation and/or altercation? Some are more concerned with their rights, than doing the right thing.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Well, according to CNN, the police officer's name will be released tomorrow.

That should make the lynch mob happy.

 

[eliza61]

So common sense, just left the building? Why act like you have something to hide? What's wrong with being respectful and cooperative...avoid an confrontation and/or altercation? Some are more concerned with their rights, than doing the right thing.

No, not at all. but there are some of us who firmly believe that standing up for your rights IS the right thing to do.

Some of us know first hand, what it is like NOT to have those rights. Now maybe it's because my mom was a civil rights attorney or that every one of my elders knows what it's like to NOT have those basic rights that most take for granted.

Standing up for your rights does not equal disrespect.

And cooperation goes both ways. You can't rolled down the streets of America in armoured tanks and say "be cooperative". That makes us no different than North Korea. and iMO and my opinion only, when we start accepting that in the name of being "cooperative", then stop the pretense of freedom and just call it what it is, a police state.

 

[Tomader]

Well, according to CNN, the police officer's name will be released tomorrow.

That should make the lynch mob happy.

That will do what? Increase the violence? Maybe we can get the story of what really happened. That probably means nothing at this point. The media had what it wants. I hope they have protection available for this person and their family. Maybe the officer is black?

 

[OurBigTrip]

No, not at all. but there are some of us who firmly believe that standing up for your rights IS the right thing to do.

Some of us know first hand, what it is like NOT to have those rights. Now maybe it's because my mom was a civil rights attorney or that every one of my elders knows what it's like to NOT have those basic rights that most take for granted.

Standing up for your rights does not equal disrespect.

Standing up for your rights does equal disrespect when it's done disrespectfully.

 

[OurBigTrip]

And cooperation goes both ways. You can't rolled down the streets of America in armoured tanks and say "be cooperative". That makes us no different than North Korea. and iMO and my opinion only, when we start accepting that in the name of being "cooperative", then stop the pretense of freedom and just call it what it is, a police state.

I want the police in armored tanks when the thugs are throwing Molotov cocktails and shooting at police officers.

And comparing the U.S. to North Korea is laughable.

 

[bimshire]

Nothing will be done to the looters - the "good" people of Ferguson and the U.S. Justice Department won't allow it.

Looters are prosecuted all the time. Can't the same about Gestapo cops who bust down doors, who lie with their colleagues' support at thin blue line, who shoot unarmed people, use illegal choke holds and/or excessive force.

 

[Jex]

Class action suit? When I was a teenager I got pulled over and searched all the time, like every few days. It got to the point that I just kept all my inside door panels and such off since they constantly removed them. I didn't do a class action suit, but it was funny the day the police pulled over my car while my mom was driving me home from a doctor's appointment one day. Not who they expected to see at all. Needless to say, she had a nice chat with them (never believed I was being targeted) and it stopped.

 

[TLSnell1981]

lol.

a time or two. Once I was in a bar and the cops came in asking everyone where they lived and if they had id. I did just what I said above.

Why do you want to know where I live and no I do not have any id. The cop then asked me, why I did not have id and I said because I don't need it right now.

I then asked, "what's the problem officer" and he said " no problem". to which I said, "have a nice night"

.

A bar can be fined and shut down, if a patron does not have proper ID. Law enforcement had every reason to expect you to produce ID. I wouldn't risk a fine, going to jail or lose my liquor license for ANYONE. I don't care, if you are my mother.

 

[OurBigTrip]

That will do what? Increase the violence? Maybe we can get the story of what really happened. That probably means nothing at this point. The media had what it wants. I hope they have protection available for this person and their family. Maybe the officer is black?

Very few people in Ferguson care about the truth - they just want the police officer convicted and locked away, guilty or not. And they certainly couldn't care less about the safety of the officer or his family.

"The only good cop is a dead cop" according to graffiti outside a business in Ferguson.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Looters are prosecuted all the time. Can't the same about Gestapo cops who bust down doors, who lie with their colleagues' support at thin blue line, who shoot unarmed people, use illegal choke holds and/or excessive force.

The Ferguson looters may be prosecuted, but I doubt it. And I'm betting that if they are, they won't be found guilty.

They have the support of the citizens of Ferguson.

 

[eliza61]

Standing up for your rights does equal disrespect when it's done disrespectfully.

by that logic, all social protest is disrespectful. Rosa parks refused the cops orders to get up. so by your logic she should have cooperated with the cops?

The colonist not buying British tea was I'm sure to the Brits, disrespectful.

to some cops, the very audacity of questioning them is disrespectful.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

So common sense, just left the building? Why act like you have something to hide? What's wrong with being respectful and cooperative...avoid an confrontation and/or altercation? Some are more concerned with their rights, than doing the right thing.

I haven't seen anyone say to be disrespectful, "no sir" is just as polite as "yes sir". I don't have anything to hide but in dealing with government officials; FDA, state health dep, marine police, conservation, EPA, ADEM, etc. and yes police. I've realized that they often times are trying to get you to talk to them hoping you'll trip yourself up, or offer up information about yourself, don't believe me if you want but they do, and I've found it works best for me not to volunteer to much without asking a few questions of my own to find out what it is their after.

 

[OurBigTrip]

by that logic, all social protest is disrespectful.

Wrong.

"I'd rather not answer your questions without an attorney"
"Screw you, I don't have to answer your questions".

One is respectful, one isn't.

 

[eliza61]

A bar can be fined and shut down, if a patron does not have proper ID. Law enforcement had every reason to expect you to produce ID. I wouldn't risk a fine, going to jail or lose my liquor license for ANYONE. I don't care, if you are my mother.

Very true. So right at the point when I said "is there a problem officer". the cop then says "bars can be shut down if they can't prove every one is of legal age and you have to produce an id if ask" to which I would have probably said, "Oh I had no idea, no problem, next time I'll be sure to carry my license".

I get my answers, he gets his answers, I tell him I'll comply with the law and everyone is happy.

I guess police to have to cooperate with anyone.

 

[eliza61]

Wrong.

"I'd rather not answer your questions without an attorney"
"Screw you, I don't have to answer your questions".

One is respectful, one isn't.

and I repeat for about the 20th time, no where did I state I was nasty with the cops.

you guys just don't like the fact that I don't see cops as the end all to be all.