How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[Geoff_M]

How should the police respond? There continues to be protests, threats and "unrest" every night. Throwing rocks, bricks, molitov (sp) cocktails is not a peacful protest. Most of the people being arrested are not from Ferguson or even STL. Ferguson is a small peaceful (normally) working class city full of families and people who want this to stop. The police were called by the McDonalds the reporters were in, to get them out of the restaurant, they had been there all day using the Wifi. The reporters wouldn't leave when they were asked. The local media has been out on W. Florissant every night reporting on what is happening, so no media blackout here anyway.

Even so, it sounds like the police that trespassed the reporters largely went about their task in "the wrong way" if the reporter's accounts are correct. I understand that nerves are frayed all around in that locality, which doesn't help matters, but photography (or recording video) is not a crime, and I believe that an officer has the duty to identify him/herself if asked. However, I will say that in reading the WaPo reporter's account that him pulling the "Do you know who I work for?!?!? I'll put you on the front page!!!" schtick with the police wasn't exactly a good way to try and defuse the situation.

 

[Jedana]

How should the police respond? There continues to be protests, threats and "unrest" every night. Throwing rocks, bricks, molitov (sp) cocktails is not a peacful protest. Most of the people being arrested are not from Ferguson or even STL. Ferguson is a small peaceful (normally) working class city full of families and people who want this to stop. The police were called by the McDonalds the reporters were in, to get them out of the restaurant, they had been there all day using the Wifi. The reporters wouldn't leave when they were asked. The local media has been out on W. Florissant every night reporting on what is happening, so no media blackout here anyway. Ferguson is not in charge of the investigation, they handed it over to the county police at the beginning, and the FBI has been there since Sunday as well. Finally a second witness has come forward backing up the story of a struggle in the police car, and a shot going off in the car during the struggle. The hacker group Anonymous has taken over the City of Ferguson's phones, computers, traffic cameras and everything else it can get to and has been releasing info on city leaders, police officers and their families. They have been posting pictures and address of homes - actually the wrong info in some cases and those people have had to be evacuated from their homes. It is awful from so many angles. People can't go to work, the start of the school year has been delayed, and a couple of nights the violence (looting) has spread to other parts of St Louis County. I hope there is peace soon and the area is given time to come together and heal.

It's a horrific situation to be in, especially for those who are not actively participating. People are doing more harm than good.

There's some internet thing going around that "the Purge" is going to hit Jax. My DD2 posted about it on her FB page (and panicked my sister, because she's gullible like that ). I said I would be more concerned about it if it said St Louis right now.

 

[RadioNate]

How should the police respond? There continues to be protests, threats and "unrest" every night. Throwing rocks, bricks, molitov (sp) cocktails is not a peacful protest. Most of the people being arrested are not from Ferguson or even STL. Ferguson is a small peaceful (normally) working class city full of families and people who want this to stop. The police were called by the McDonalds the reporters were in, to get them out of the restaurant, they had been there all day using the Wifi. The reporters wouldn't leave when they were asked. The local media has been out on W. Florissant every night reporting on what is happening, so no media blackout here anyway. Ferguson is not in charge of the investigation, they handed it over to the county police at the beginning, and the FBI has been there since Sunday as well. Finally a second witness has come forward backing up the story of a struggle in the police car, and a shot going off in the car during the struggle. The hacker group Anonymous has taken over the City of Ferguson's phones, computers, traffic cameras and everything else it can get to and has been releasing info on city leaders, police officers and their families. They have been posting pictures and address of homes - actually the wrong info in some cases and those people have had to be evacuated from their homes. It is awful from so many angles. People can't go to work, the start of the school year has been delayed, and a couple of nights the violence (looting) has spread to other parts of St Louis County. I hope there is peace soon and the area is given time to come together and heal.

You can't arrest the media doing their jobs. There's an amendment about that. They were leaving. They didn't leave fast enough for the cops. They sent in the SWAT team in to clear a McDonalds. You can work at a McDonald's. They bought items. They were paying customers. If they wanted them to stop using to wifi, why didn't anyone just unplug that? There were solutions that didn't involve the SWAT team transporting, detaining & assaulting national media. Considering they were released w/out booking or charges, someone knows they screwed up.

The militarization is problematic. Even ACTUAL members of the military have spoken out that situations in ACTUAL war zones have been contained peacefully with less fire power. That the PD in MO is "doing it wrong."

Maybe they are being met with rocks, Molotov cocktails etc because they are arriving in tanks with their guns raised, shooting rubber bullets at people and tear gassing them. What comes first here? Their presence & actions continue to escalate the situation.

Live trucks were ordered out of the area. There is a pic floating around of a St Louis (local media) reporter being tear gassed & retreating to her vehicle. If this is happening with everyone watching, what is happening when we aren't?

It's time for an agency that knows what they are doing to take over. Calling in the national guard will mean a more appropriate & measured response. They are trained for this.

 

[Grmnshplvr]

Hard to hear or read what is not broadcast or published. I'm happy to know that he does speak about black on black crime.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to look it up and see if he does rather than jump to the conclusion that he doesn't? Why would you jump to that conclusion anyways? And how come I never hear someone ask where the outrage is regarding white on white crime?

Statistically speaking, and common sense shows if a crime is going to be committed against you it will most likely happen by someone of your own race.

 

[Grmnshplvr]

I totally agree! The intolerance from some groups is disgusting. It is kind of funny because some of these groups claim they are tolerant when they are not. Interesting times.

I see alot of "groups" saying the ones that are suppose to be tolerant are not. What does that even mean? Tolerate our intolerance??

 

[sukhakuli]

Even so, it sounds like the police that trespassed the reporters largely went about their task in "the wrong way" if the reporter's accounts are correct. I understand that nerves are frayed all around in that locality, which doesn't help matters, but photography (or recording video) is not a crime, and I believe that an officer has the duty to identify him/herself if asked. However, I will say that in reading the WaPo reporter's account that him pulling the "Do you know who I work for?!?!? I'll put you on the front page!!!" schtick with the police wasn't exactly a good way to try and defuse the situation.

That was AFTER he was in the police car and arrested. Did you watch the Wash Post guy's video? According to the local news, people are being arrested just for being outside. One guy and his family had tear gas thrown at them because they would not get out of their own backyard (they videoed it). The police have gone totally nuts.

Someone asked what the police need to do. Tone down the riot gear for God's sake. Stop pointing guns at unarmed protesters with their arms in the air. Stop trying to close air space to keep the media out of the area. Allow the media in. Hire a new PR firm (their press releases are are pretty stupid). Ask for help from the FBI. Be more transparent about the investigation. The governor of MO and the local city officials are strangely silent about all of this. They need to stop ignoring it, and hope it all goes away. At this point, the police are inciting violence. They need to stand down.

Anonymous hacked the police computers and released the dispatch tapes, and if they are true, there has been some very serious misconduct here. The cop who shot the victim immediately called for crowd control, but did not report the shooting or call paramedics. What if he was still alive? He didn't call for aid. The 911 Dispatchers heard about the shooting from the local news. Paramedics was not called for over 4 hours. At the very least, this is some serious police misconduct.

 

[Geoff_M]

You can work at a McDonald's. They bought items. They were paying customers. If they wanted them to stop using to wifi, why didn't anyone just unplug that? There were solutions that didn't involve the SWAT team transporting, detaining & assaulting national media.

While you can certainly take exception to the manner in which the clearance was carried out, if the above is true and the McDonald's manager wanted to clear folks that were using the place as a mobile office, they legally can ask the police to do that... paying customers or not. The manager is not required to first do things by him/herself before asking the police to do so. Turn off Wi-Fi? No problem, set the 4G phone to "hot-spot" and keep working! Again, you can certainly find fault with the police in some of the things reported by the WaPo (and Huff) reporter, but unless the police unilaterally decided to clear out he McDonald's then there's nothing wrong with the police asking people to leave the building.

 

[sunshinehighway]

That was AFTER he was in the police car and arrested. Did you watch the Wash Post guy's video? According to the local news, people are being arrested just for being outside. One guy and his family had tear gas thrown at them because they would not get out of their own backyard (they videoed it). The police have gone totally nuts.

Someone asked what the police need to do. Tone down the riot gear for God's sake. Stop pointing guns at unarmed protesters with their arms in the air. Stop trying to close air space to keep the media out of the area. Allow the media in. Hire a new PR firm (their press releases are are pretty stupid). Ask for help from the FBI. Be more transparent about the investigation. The governor of MO and the local city officials are strangely silent about all of this. They need to stop ignoring it, and hope it all goes away. At this point, the police are inciting violence. They need to stand down.

Anonymous hacked the police computers and released the dispatch tapes, and if they are true, there has been some very serious misconduct here. The cop who shot the victim immediately called for crowd control, but did not report the shooting or call paramedics. What if he was still alive? He didn't call for aid. The 911 Dispatchers heard about the shooting from the local news. Paramedics was not called for over 4 hours. At the very least, this is some serious police misconduct.

If the things I have read are true, the police handled this badly from the start. Before anyone starts in on me, the looting and rioting is inexcusable.
When you have something that is supposed to be a peaceful protest, having the police show up in full riot gear with snarling dogs aimed for the crowd does nothing to quell a tense situation. It does the opposite. I'm not saying the police shouldn't have been prepared for the protest to go badly but their response was too much (especially the dogs).

 

[sukhakuli]

If the things I have read are true, the police handled this badly from the start. Before anyone starts in on me, the looting and rioting is inexcusable.
When you have something that is supposed to be a peaceful protest, having the police show up in full riot gear with snarling dogs aimed for the crowd does nothing to quell a tense situation. It does the opposite. I'm not saying the police shouldn't have been prepared for the protest to go badly but their response was too much (especially the dogs).

Exactly right. In addition, Mike Brown was shot on Saturday, and the neighborhood was outraged, but peaceful. And no one listened or did anything, and the news media did not pick this up at all. It was only when they started rioting and looting that it was picked up. Unfortunately in this day and age, peaceful protests don't get you very far.

I was watching the live feeds last night, and for the most part, the protests were peaceful. There was a pocket here and there of violent behavior but by and large it was peaceful last night. But if the protesters don't say "how high" when the cops say jump, they started pelting them with rubber bullets and tear gas. They are treating these people as if they are terrorists and not American citizens. In this situation the police's job is to calm the situation down, not escalate it.

 

[RadioNate]

That was AFTER he was in the police car and arrested. Did you watch the Wash Post guy's video? According to the local news, people are being arrested just for being outside. One guy and his family had tear gas thrown at them because they would not get out of their own backyard (they videoed it). The police have gone totally nuts. Someone asked what the police need to do. Tone down the riot gear for God's sake. Stop pointing guns at unarmed protesters with their arms in the air. Stop trying to close air space to keep the media out of the area. Allow the media in. Hire a new PR firm (their press releases are are pretty stupid). Ask for help from the FBI. Be more transparent about the investigation. The governor of MO and the local city officials are strangely silent about all of this. They need to stop ignoring it, and hope it all goes away. At this point, the police are inciting violence. They need to stand down. Anonymous hacked the police computers and released the dispatch tapes, and if they are true, there has been some very serious misconduct here. The cop who shot the victim immediately called for crowd control, but did not report the shooting or call paramedics. What if he was still alive? He didn't call for aid. The 911 Dispatchers heard about the shooting from the local news. Paramedics was not called for over 4 hours. At the very least, this is some serious police misconduct.

They fired a tear gas canister directly into the US Al Jazeera crew and as they were packing their gear stood with their guns raised at them. There are pictures.

They arrested a St Louis alderman, an elected official, while he was taking & tweeting Vine videos of the event.

Tear gas is banned in warfare, yet we use it on citizens who are doing their jobs. The SWAT team enters a McDonald's, guns raised, with families & children present to stop some reporters from using the wifi? This is a logical or appropriate response to the problem?

If this is how the police act I can see why citizens suspect wrongdoing & misconduct in the Michael Brown shooting.

 

[Geoff_M]

That was AFTER he was in the police car and arrested. Did you watch the Wash Post guy's video?

Sorry, but it doesn't matter when that card was played... it's not smart to try and get into a whizzing contest with the police.

According to the local news, people are being arrested just for being outside. One guy and his family had tear gas thrown at them because they would not get out of their own backyard (they videoed it). The police have gone totally nuts.

Someone asked what the police need to do. Tone down the riot gear for God's sake. Stop pointing guns at unarmed protesters with their arms in the air. Stop trying to close air space to keep the media out of the area. Allow the media in. Hire a new PR firm (their press releases are are pretty stupid). Ask for help from the FBI. Be more transparent about the investigation. The governor of MO and the local city officials are strangely silent about all of this. They need to stop ignoring it, and hope it all goes away. At this point, the police are inciting violence. They need to stand down.

Anonymous hacked the police computers and released the dispatch tapes, and if they are true, there has been some very serious misconduct here. The cop who shot the victim immediately called for crowd control, but did not report the shooting or call paramedics. What if he was still alive? He didn't call for aid. The 911 Dispatchers heard about the shooting from the local news. Paramedics was not called for over 4 hours. At the very least, this is some serious police misconduct.

I don't know if you think that I'm saying the actions/reactions of the FPD are not worthy of criticism, but I'm not. As for "Anonymous", they have a mixed record when it comes to their crusades for what they perceive as "justice". They've mucked stuff up for criminal investigations with their antics in the past and have left wakes of untrue accusations and other collateral damage in their quests for "justice".

 

[sukhakuli]

That's certainly true about Anonymous, and I haven't listened to the tapes. But I was watching live feed from various news agencies last night, and it's a police state out there.

So, Geoff, you think if the cops come at you, you are supposed to just fall in line and do everything they say? As the press, they have certain legal protections. Do you think that you should not stand up for your rights just because they are cops? You think that you can't say anything to police at all that is questioning? I think that's odd. As police, they are held to higher standards of behavior and conduct. As citizens, we have a constitutional right to be able to speak to the government or law enforcement without fear of legal repercussions (including arrest and assault by the police). Nothing he said was out of line.

 

[sam_gordon]

That's certainly true about Anonymous, and I haven't listened to the tapes. But I was watching live feed from various news agencies last night, and it's a police state out there.

So, Geoff, you think if the cops come at you, you are supposed to just fall in line and do everything they say? As the press, they have certain legal protections. Do you think that you should not stand up for your rights just because they are cops? You think that you can't say anything to police at all that is questioning? I think that's odd. As police, they are held to higher standards of behavior and conduct. As citizens, we have a constitutional right to be able to speak to the government or law enforcement without fear of legal repercussions (including arrest and assault by the police). Nothing he said was out of line.

What legal protections are those? I always understood the "press" only has the LEGAL rights of any other citizen.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Yes, Anonymous is an organization that acts wrongly as often (or more) than they act correctly. Pushing to get those football players that were getting away with rape charged was good, but they have also taken the wrong side in the past.

With the situation as it is, I agree that the name of the officer involved should be kept private until the investigation is complete and charges filed. He shouldn't be in fear of his life...except fearing he might face the death penalty (though I doubt that will ever happen even though many people have been executed for less).

As for the thug officer that made the mistake of picking a fight with two of the biggest media outlets in the country...he might want to start filling out job applications for mall security...his career is about to be over. That's one less bad apple giving the good police officers a bad name.

 

[Geoff_M]

So, Geoff, you think if the cops come at you, you are supposed to just fall in line and do everything they say? As the press, they have certain legal protections. Do you think that you should not stand up for your rights just because they are cops? You think that you can't say anything to police at all that is questioning? I think that's odd. As police, they are held to higher standards of behavior and conduct. As citizens, we have a constitutional right to be able to speak to the government or law enforcement without fear of legal repercussions (including arrest and assault by the police). Nothing he said was out of line.

Here's the exchange in the reporter's own words:

“I hope you’re happy with yourself,” one officer told me. And I responded: “This story’s going to get out there. It’s going to be on the front page of The Washington Post tomorrow.”

Making those sorts of implied threats isn't going to do anyone any good at that point in time.

There's what you have a "right" to do and there's also what's "smart" to do. The reporter had the "right" to say whatever he wanted, that doesn't mean it was "smart".

I'm also not suggesting that anything that was said by the reporter excused anything that was done to him while in police custody.

 

[bimshire]

Sorry, but it doesn't matter when that card was played... it's not smart to try and get into a whizzing contest with the police.

I don't know if you think that I'm saying the actions/reactions of the FPD are not worthy of criticism, but I'm not. As for "Anonymous", they have a mixed record when it comes to their crusades for what they perceive as "justice". They've mucked stuff up for criminal investigations with their antics in the past and have left wakes of untrue accusations and other collateral damage in their quests for "justice".

I think that you seem to be looking for any excuse to justify police actions. There are some people who give the police a pass simply because of what they respresent. There are also juries that accept the word of a police officer simply because of the uniform.

By the way, I don't know where myth came from but it is false that it is illegal to film and take pics of the police. As long as a person is not obstructing the police, they can take as many pics and videotape as much as they want. It is the individual's right to it.

 

[RadioNate]

Here's the exchange in the reporter's own words:Making those sorts of implied threats isn't going to do anyone any good at that point in time. There's what you have a "right" to do and there's also what's "smart" to do. The reporter had the "right" to say whatever he wanted, that doesn't mean it was "smart". I'm also not suggesting that anything that was said by the reporter excused anything that was done to him while in police custody.

But you are just confirming, in a way, police abusive of power. Why isn't it "smart" to ask questions you are legally allowed to ask? They legally recorded the scene. They asked for names & badge numbers. They asked why they were detained. They asked for copies of the police report. Reporters are supposed to ask questions. But that isn't "smart." Why not? Because they police may respond with unnecessary force & hassle?

Don't speak out. Don't question. Shut up & take it. "Be smart." That's what lets abuse of power & police violations happen. It's easy to get away with it when people are too scared to exercise their rights.

I've looked repeatedly & I can't find out any information on why the cops were called to the McDonalds. Did mgmt ask the 2, reporters to leave before calling? According to both reporters they were the only 2 in the McDonalds at the time.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Making those sorts of implied threats isn't going to do anyone any good at that point in time.

Actually in the past, having the threat of their questionable actions get out is exactly what has gotten police officers to back off when they have gone too far. But I don't see the reporter's words as a threat. At the point he made then, he had already been assaulted and arrested...I think he was making a promise.

 

[bimshire]

Here's the exchange in the reporter's own words:Making those sorts of implied threats isn't going to do anyone any good at that point in time.

There's what you have a "right" to do and there's also what's "smart" to do. The reporter had the "right" to say whatever he wanted, that doesn't mean it was "smart".

I'm also not suggesting that anything that was said by the reporter excused anything that was done to him while in police custody.

So if the police were trained properly, then why were they not "smart' enough to know that the press should not be arrested when not doing anything against the law? The situation in McDonald's was also not a tense environment.

It continues to baffle people why the Ferguson population is 70% black but only 5% of the police force is the same.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

I've looked repeatedly & I can't find out any information on why the cops were called to the McDonalds. Did mgmt ask the 2, reporters to leave before calling? According to both reporters they were the only 2 in the McDonalds at the time.

Can't find it either, other than the people on this thread claiming that, but he manager of the McDonalds said of the arrests of the reporters: "It's a bad thing. It's just not good."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...lds-arrest_n_5677161.html?utm_hp_ref=politics