How Does a Recession Hurt ME?

As a Military family we sacrifice a lot but we are also fortunate that for the most part we are not greatly impacted by the National Economy. DH has job security with that comes annual raises(not huge but something), plus longevity raises and promotions. We also have a solid retirement with Medical, you won't hear me complaining....at least not too much.
 
it doesn't really matter whether it's called "recession" or "inflation" to me, but what we've seen in the past two years is: gasoline has tripled, food and heating have doubled, property taxes have doubled, while our home's value has actually gone down. During this same time my dh's income has stayed the same (he's a public servant) because his organization has been in ongoing contract negotiations with the city. So, it most definitely is affecting us. We're still taking two WDW trips this year, thank goodness they're already paid for. We have no debt besides our home, and we're still saving, but in every area of our lives we're tightening our belts. Less eating out (only for special occasions like birthdays now), less trips to Starbucks, much less new clothing, no going to movies, cutting back on cable tv, making every effort to drive less, and re-thinking every purchase twice before we make it. And we don't currently have any vacations planned for 2009. We'll see how things go before we commit to anything.
 
i think the situation with the 'average family' can vary greatly on where the average family currently lives and the mindset of that area/and the age group they are in (not so much crono age but where they 'are' in life).

we lived until about a year ago in northern california. we lived in what had become largly a commuter community, people lived there for the small town atmosphere and great schools but commuted largly long and hard for the higher bay area wages (with the exception of those assigned to the nearby airforce base). we lived in a neighborhood of newer homes (last ones built in 2002) and they ranged originaly in price higher than first time homes (but as compared to bay area home prices they were priced MUCH lower) to what people considered a 2nd or 3rd home 'trade up' purchase. we had almost an even/steven compilation of homeowners-first time usualy very young buyers anticipating amassing big equity to sell and buy up within a few years, 2nd or 3rd time homeowners (generaly like us in their 30's or older planning on staying put and raising the kids to adulthood) and very close to retirement agers who planned on making a killing on equity over 5-10 years, downsizing before their incomes dropped to pension level (often below what was needed to continue paying the mortgage and basic living expenses) and using the equity for retirement. this worked well for many folks until march of 2006 when the real estate market CRASHED (not dipped, bottom fell out completely). prior to this date these homes sold for over 200% more than they sold for new no more than 7 years earlier. now that neighborhood has a combination of (1) recent buyers who are hundreds of thousands upside down in equity (some with rates about to increase-and no way they can re-fi cuz the houses won't appraise at the level of debt), (2) the long term family raisers, and (3) the soon to be retirees who will be unable to pay their mortgages when they retire (or get layed off as many are becoming) and have no 'nest egg' of equity as they had planned for.

this was just the general accepted mind set in that area-and as a result a change in the economy that can decrease earnings, decrease savings (actual by virtue of not being able to put as much aside or earn on, and property values) and increase expenses will, i believe-have a harder effect than on the 'average family' in say, the area we currently live in (small town in washington state). i don't think it hits AS hard here because families (at least in our neck of the woods) have never seen the massive increases in home values such that they had the mind set that their existing home was their primary source of funding their retirement (or child's college education). i also don't see the mindset of within 6 months of purchasing a new home getting a home equity loan to pull out tens of thousands to purchase consumer goods or pay for high end vacations (definatly the norm where we previously lived), so the average family here may not have the same issues with big end debt beyond a mortgage and perhaps car loan.

i found it very interesting when i worked for social services granting cash, medical and food stamp services. during those times in the couple of decades i was there that the economy was in bad state there was of course an increase in the number of families applying for assistance, but it realy was'nt across all economic types. it seemed as though those who worked in the lower paying jobs managed to keep them, and were living within or well below their means such that they were able to maintain (not talking about anyone getting any housing subsidies or other forms of assistance-just basic minimum or a bit above wagers doing everything on their financial own). higher earners though, they seemed to live to the full extent of or beyond their means such that even a temporary lay-off or just not getting the raise they anticipated (and had already overspent based on:sad2: ) resulted in catastrophic financial consequences (they might have had a chunk in a retirement account but if they could'nt access it, well....it was like it did'nt exist) that put them in a much faster downard spiral. once the credit cards were maxed out and any accessable funds were depleted they were in our office applying and were very shocked to find out what the government deemed as sustainable income for their family size:scared1:

i think to some degree saying that our grandparents got through a depression and so can we is not realistic. so many factors today are different. while a person of the depression era might choose to walk away from a home they could no longer afford the consequence was largely simply the loss of that home and any equity it held/poor standing with the local bank-today by vitue of credit bureaus and international data bases it can tarnish a person's credit such that not only will they have difficulty for years purchasing anything on credit, but it can prevent them from securing viable employment by virtue of those industries that factor in credit scores as hiring criteria. many of our grandparents (and my own late father included) found some financial refuge from the depression via mass immigration to the western united states where there were greater opportunities of employment and reasonable housing costs (esp. when the cost of decreased heating was factored in)-i can't think of any area in the u.s where today such opportunities exist. many of our grandparents also found assitance through government initiatives such as the origin of today's public assistance programs the 'w.p.a.' which provided jobs at a set wage for thongs of unemployed workers. today's version can hardly begin to provide for the actual needs of a familt (higher end states allot for 3 people around $670 per month and at most around $200 in food stamps-this is without any subsidies or other assistance in meeting housing, utility or any other costs sans medical assistance)-the cost of living is much higher today vs what is issued as compared to what our grandparents could earn via the wpa and reasonably expect to spend. it's just a whole different world.
 
And during the depression our grandparents lived through, many had the land to sustain or at least supplement their families, food wise. Not so today.
 


Good question. I keep reading and hearing about this, but I'm not "feeling" it, you know? I'm interested in all the responses.

I know there are things that do affect me (higher costs) but I just started my first "professional" job since college last year and last week got my 2nd raise already, which means my income is increasing quite a bit with the cost of living so I'm not feeling it like others. And since I just started putting money into a 401K, I don't have a lot to lose. It's dropped $5 total, and I'm still up from what I've paid in so far. I'm sure I'd be more panicked if I was talking about tens or hundreds of thousands invested like some people.

Maybe some of those that are better with this can jump in, but it seems like this could be turned to a positive for someone like me. With the housing market taking a dive, it seems like I could save for the next couple years and sort of "take advantage" of the situation? The fact that all of this hasn't really affected me financially seems like I could spin it in my favor. Or is that wishful thinking?

I'm feeling pretty good about my job too. We're actually seeing more work and money lately. I'm the whole billing/accounting department and our recievables are up 50% (for a few months it doubled) and now that the holidays are over, we're getting booked up again. At one point last week I had $0 in payables - and the week before when it was only a couple thousand, the owner said she hasn't seen that since 1994. To compare, we had about $70,000 in payables when I started. Also got a few of the company credit cards paid off or way down in the time I've been there. So it seems like this downturn isn't working its way to us (yet) . . . it's a court reporting agency and lucky for us, people never stop suing, LOL.

As I was reading your post I was thinking, that sounds like me in the downturn of the late '80s/early '90s. Then when you said you work for a court reporting agency, well, it all fits! :laughing: I've been a court reporter for 24 years, the first 15 of which I worked for a freelance agency. Business was always more brisk when the economy was in a downturn. I've been an official reporter for the last nine years, so it will be interesting to see if we see the same thing in the courtroom. I hope you enjoy your new job. It's a very interesting field to work in!:thumbsup2
 
And during the depression our grandparents lived through, many had the land to sustain or at least supplement their families, food wise. Not so today.

Also, today the savings rate is negative. I'd like to point out that the people who made a lot off the stock market during the Great Depression had the money to hang on.

During bad times people have to sell their stocks, houses, cars, boats, etc. because they need to raise cash just to survive.
 
I work as a server, and I can already tell you that I've seen a complete downturn compared to last year. I don't ever remember it being this slow.

This is, of course, effecting the entire staff. If we don't have the sales, we don't have the people on the schedule. Everyone across the board is having their hours cut. If the servers aren't making the tips they need to provide for their family, and some of them aren't, we aren't going out to spend money anywhere else.

I decided last year when I thought the housing market was about to burst out here that I would begin working my hiney off to pay down my debt. If the decrease in people keeps happening, I will be happy to just pay bills on time ... and hopefully sock away a litte into my savings. I can't and won't make money if people can't afford to come out to dinner.
 


I work as a server, and I can already tell you that I've seen a complete downturn compared to last year. I don't ever remember it being this slow.


I'm seeing and hearing evidence everywhere. One of my clients is in manufacturing....he owns a factory in south carolina that makes sports apparel. He was at a trade show in California this past weekend, and said that attendance seemed down by at least 25% over last year. His orders are down significantly for the beginning of 2008.

I live in a town that has a real main street, with shops and restaurants...we have a Starbucks, a Cold Stone Creamery, a Papyrus, just got a Tiffany too...(ooh la la). The Cold Stone Creamery is toast, and there are many, many vacant shops right now on that street. Apparently most of the real estate on the street turned over in the past few years, people paid a ton of money and raised rent through the roof. Now smaller shopkeepers can't make a living.

It feels like a big slowdown to me....
 
We're talking about billions and billions in losses to date with a whole lot more coming. Banks don't trust each other and are tightening lending big-time to hold onto capital....because even the banks don't know how bad their losses are going to be. This affects consumer lending too (CCs and auto loans), which could further slow the economy.

(bolding is mine)
I spend a fair amount of time browsing at creditboards.com and just from that small segment of population, people are seeing their CC limits decreased (or cards cancelled entirely) for seemingly no reason. At least not related to their history with the issuer. The credit card companies are getting scared and doing account reviews left and right. American Express started a few months ago slashing peoples' limits over there. I think I just read people are starting to see the same thing from Chase. If they walk away with any credit at all, it's fractions of what they originally had. And most of the people posting are those with good incomes and high scores.

I've noticed myself in checking my own credit report that a few of my cards are doing soft pulls for account reviews. I bet just about everyone here with a credit card will find the same thing.
 
(bolding is mine)
I spend a fair amount of time browsing at creditboards.com and just from that small segment of population, people are seeing their CC limits decreased (or cards cancelled entirely) for seemingly no reason. At least not related to their history with the issuer. The credit card companies are getting scared and doing account reviews left and right. American Express started a few months ago slashing peoples' limits over there. I think I just read people are starting to see the same thing from Chase. If they walk away with any credit at all, it's fractions of what they originally had. And most of the people posting are those with good incomes and high scores.

I've noticed myself in checking my own credit report that a few of my cards are doing soft pulls for account reviews. I bet just about everyone here with a credit card will find the same thing.

This is absolutely happening....credit is very tight right now, and the banks are tightening. Amex is seeing defaults rising big time. A NY Times article reported that they were actually calling certain customers ahead of time to inquire whether they were going to have difficulty paying their bill.

Citi reported that they were having to set aside a whole lot of money to cover rising defaults, which of course will make them less likely to lend. And keep in mind that the massive revenue stream from all of this collaterized debt....poof....it's gone.

Bank of American reported yesterday. Their profits fell 95% from last year. From a 5.5 Billion dollar year to a 256 million dollar year. And *they're* the ones bailing out Countrywide.....it just makes me LOL!

Just got an e-mail from a friend with this report from Merrill....they see housing declining another 25-30% over the next three years. And the S&P 500 down around 1,100. That would the Dow in the 10,000 range.

Tough times my friends.....remember, it takes awhile for this to trickle down to us.....
 
As I was reading your post I was thinking, that sounds like me in the downturn of the late '80s/early '90s. Then when you said you work for a court reporting agency, well, it all fits! :laughing: I've been a court reporter for 24 years, the first 15 of which I worked for a freelance agency. Business was always more brisk when the economy was in a downturn. I've been an official reporter for the last nine years, so it will be interesting to see if we see the same thing in the courtroom. I hope you enjoy your new job. It's a very interesting field to work in!:thumbsup2

I really love the job. We're technically a small business, but as you know, court reporters are in pretty high demand since there really aren't that many of them out there, so we do a pretty high volume. Officially I'm in billing/accounting but I'm getting crosstrained in production right now (since it's so small, they like having people crosstrained since one person missing more than a day or two can throw everything off) and I just really enjoy everything I've done so far this year. Just a few months ago I was saying how when I was in high school I wish someone would have mentioned court reporting when I was trying to figure out what to do because I think I would have gone to school for that instead.

But I'm glad I'm not just "seeing things" that business is getting better as the economic condition worsens. Maybe as people get more strapped for cash they're more willing to try and sue those who've "wronged" them? I don't know, but all the money coming in really makes me look good right now, LOL!
 
Just got an e-mail from a friend with this report from Merrill....they see housing declining another 25-30% over the next three years. And the S&P 500 down around 1,100. That would the Dow in the 10,000 range.

That sort of goes back to my first post where it seems like this could be a positive for someone like me. My income is increasing (it tripled last year going from my college income) so as long as I don't let my bills increase with it, I should be able to save up a good downpayment in the next 3 years and take advantage of that housing drop.

Plus since I'm really just starting to save for retirement, it seems like I'm getting in on the lower end and eventually see big returns when the market finally rebounds.

Or I could just be wishful thinking again :rotfl:
 
Just a few months ago I was saying how when I was in high school I wish someone would have mentioned court reporting when I was trying to figure out what to do because I think I would have gone to school for that instead.

It's never too late!;) We had a couple people working in production at our firm that ended up going to school for reporting and coming back to work for us. There's a real shortage of reporters, and like any job, it has its ups and downs, but it's really been a wonderful career. Best of luck to you!:goodvibes
 
This is absolutely happening....credit is very tight right now, and the banks are tightening. Amex is seeing defaults rising big time. A NY Times article reported that they were actually calling certain customers ahead of time to inquire whether they were going to have difficulty paying their bill.

Citi reported that they were having to set aside a whole lot of money to cover rising defaults, which of course will make them less likely to lend. And keep in mind that the massive revenue stream from all of this collaterized debt....poof....it's gone.

Bank of American reported yesterday. Their profits fell 95% from last year. From a 5.5 Billion dollar year to a 256 million dollar year. And *they're* the ones bailing out Countrywide.....it just makes me LOL!

Just got an e-mail from a friend with this report from Merrill....they see housing declining another 25-30% over the next three years. And the S&P 500 down around 1,100. That would the Dow in the 10,000 range.

Tough times my friends.....remember, it takes awhile for this to trickle down to us.....


i think we can see evidence of the situation with housing values and credit by virtue of the changing face of what hits our mailbox each day. a few years ago we would daily get 2-3 solicitations to re-fi our mortgage, over the last few months these have stopped and we get massive solicitations for mortgage insurance programs to cover payments in the case of job loss or disability.

i truly believe the housing situation esp. in the hardest hit markets will get allot worse before it gets better. even those people who got in with traditional, well set up mortgages and a reasonable downpayment will be faced with financial obstacles should their incomes drop or so much as stagnate in coming months and years. i look at a family like the one that bought our former home, here they are with a home that has dropped in value over the past just shy of 2 years (based on current comp sales) close to $150,000 so even if they wanted to sell to downsize and offset increased commute costs (toll in that area has doubled since we moved, gas increased horrendously) and other costs of living they simply can't without a horrendous financial impact. now they are lucky in that california permits property owners to get a decrease in the basis for their property taxes relative to current fmv's, but not every state allows for that-so if they were in one of those states they would be shelling out taxes at a rate far exceeding the value of their residence for years to come:sad2:

i also worry for those retirees who DID save and are now largly reliant on income that has traditionaly been generated vs interest on investments and savings. i look to many of the people who reside in the assisted living facilities similar to the one my mother is in-they are not in a position to be able to supplement their incomes, and as such if they fall below what is needed to remain in those facilities i suspect many will end up with no recourse but to move in with adult children. this sitution can have an effect on families that may currently be 'getting by' by virtue of being 2 income households. the introduction of a senior citizen who is in need of daily assistance can create the necessity of one adult quitting a job in order to provide since the cost of hiring out such care is in most cases prohibitive (when we looked at BASIC non full time assistance for my mother it was far less costly for her to receive these in a bundled package which includes housing, utilities, housekeeping and meals vs hiring just part time assistance services in her private home).

lastly, i have to wonder how many of my co 'baby boomers' now faced with the depletion of much of their anticipated equity nest eggs and reduced potential for earnings from investments (if they saved anything:sad2: :sad2: ) will put off retirement. i have to anticipate that reducing the number of annual retirees from most professions will result in fewer job opportunities for people across the board-and esp. recent college grads. a couple of years ago there was talk of the impending 'silver wave' of boomers retiring and making application for social security benefits, it will be interesting to see if instead there is more of a silver trickle.
 
Hi. I just wanted to throw in my two cents. (Great subject, btw!)

I am in the construction industry,employed as a purchasing manager. This was a part of the economy that saw a huge downturn before perhaps some other areas. We build new residential homes. I have many friends - well qualified & well-respected in the industry, who are now out of work and have been for several months because the market is not there to support new homes being built. When housing suffers, there is a fallout to other people not directly connected to residential housing but they feel it too. Suppliers, fabricators, contractors (just think about all the parts and pieces that go into building a house!), transportation industry - all of their families are feeling it. It is a domino effect.

The fortunate builders are the ones that did not "go crazy" with the boom that we experienced for so many years, limiting their land position exposure. The custom builders will survive - if they can keep a min. of contracts coming in. Many buyers created problems for themselves when they signed contracts for mortgages that they could not afford. Our industry is much more affected here than in other areas of the country that perhaps did not experience the high volume of sales that we were fortunate enough to have for many many years. So many people want to live in the warm climates...

I am amazed at how much building is still going on here in central Florida. Every week we notice a new condo community or time share going up and say what are they thinking? There are so many homes and condos on the market right now I don't get it. Why build so many more? I guess the whole state would fall apart if everyone just stopped building though. This state seems to be buit on real estate and service jobs.
 
The Budget Forum can be a tough neighborhood to visit and I've restrained myself from posting on this thread until now.

For those who've written about how people survived the Depression of '29, I think it's important to consider how they survived. For the majority of Americans--not including the extremely wealthy or those who leapt to their deaths from windows of the buildings on Wall Street--times were difficult.

My folks were children during the Depression. Both were reared in rural areas. My maternal aunt now believes her severe osteoporosis is related to deprivation of calcium: my grandparents couldn't afford to buy milk. I guess my grandmother could purchase about one quart of milk a week, enough for cereal and coffee. My dad never wanted my mother to serve stew for dinner when I was growing up: he'd eaten so much of it as a child he never wanted it as a meal. And as far as living off the land, let me remind everyone just how physical gardening--or farming--can be. It's back-breaking work and few find it appealing. That's one reason so many commercial farmers have to hire illegals to harvest crops. Plus, there's the cost of getting the ground ready. I spoke with a farmer just this morning who told me how the cost of a ton of fertilizer had risen from $370 to $540 just in the last three months. What'll you think THAT will do to food prices over the next year?

My maternal grandfather couldn't find work...anywhere. He was probably in his late-40s/early 50s when he was finally hired into a steel mill. That may have been around the time when he was too old to enter WW II and the younger men had been called up. He'd come home so cramped up that my grandmother had to help him out of the car.

College was out of the question for either of my parents. The only store-bought candy my mother had as a child came from her aunt/uncle, who "had money," (meaning jobs) when they'd come up from Pittsburgh to visit. My mom and her sister's clothes were remade by my grandmother from those a female cousin had either outgrown or no longer wanted.

Several months ago an article by Jim Juback over at the moneycental.com site generated hundreds of responses by people who had either lived through or had been children of parents who'd lived through the Depression. If anyone would be interested, it's a very humbling read.
 
The Budget Forum can be a tough neighborhood to visit and I've restrained myself from posting on this thread until now.

For those who've written about how people survived the Depression of '29, I think it's important to consider how they survived. For the majority of Americans--not including the extremely wealthy or those who leapt to their deaths from windows of the buildings on Wall Street--times were difficult.

My folks were children during the Depression. Both were reared in rural areas. My maternal aunt now believes her severe osteoporosis is related to deprivation of calcium: my grandparents couldn't afford to buy milk. I guess my grandmother could purchase about one quart of milk a week, enough for cereal and coffee. My dad never wanted my mother to serve stew for dinner when I was growing up: he'd eaten so much of it as a child he never wanted it as a meal. And as far as living off the land, let me remind everyone just how physical gardening--or farming--can be. It's back-breaking work and few find it appealing. That's one reason so many commercial farmers have to hire illegals to harvest crops. Plus, there's the cost of getting the ground ready. I spoke with a farmer just this morning who told me how the cost of a ton of fertilizer had risen from $370 to $540 just in the last three months. What'll you think THAT will do to food prices over the next year?

My maternal grandfather couldn't find work...anywhere. He was probably in his late-40s/early 50s when he was finally hired into a steel mill. That may have been around the time when he was too old to enter WW II and the younger men had been called up. He'd come home so cramped up that my grandmother had to help him out of the car.

College was out of the question for either of my parents. The only store-bought candy my mother had as a child came from her aunt/uncle, who "had money," (meaning jobs) when they'd come up from Pittsburgh to visit. My mom and her sister's clothes were remade by my grandmother from those a female cousin had either outgrown or no longer wanted.

Several months ago an article by Jim Juback over at the moneycental.com site generated hundreds of responses by people who had either lived through or had been children of parents who'd lived through the Depression. If anyone would be interested, it's a very humbling read.


I agree, let's not romanticize it as a time when Americans had to "make do". It was a time of desperation and hardship - more than just giving up cable and not going on vacations.

My grandmother lived the depression as a child and had deformed feet the rest of her life to show for it - no money for new shoes. That doesn't even begin to tell the stories of no good food to eat, going to bed hungry, not being able to get health care when ill, not having money for properly fitting clothes, and the trouble that it caused between parents, families, etc.

I think all of us would be in for a serious reality check if we ever had to face an actual "great depression".
 
It's amazing how we all have so different lives, different occupations, ect...but it in the end we are so much the same.

My DH was downsized Aug of 06. I am so glad that he suggested we use part of the severence to pay off his truck. Of course, we still had a new van we bought in Jan of 06. We had no warning on this. He was the companies only cost accountant and they cut the position. Because of his salary it was like cutting 2 people lower on the food chain (he had been there 13yrs.) Last february my DH opted to open a business. I am blessed with a great job and at the time if he paid off our van we could make it just on my salary (barely, but barely makes it). As he is 37, I told him to go for it if he wanted and I would support him no matter what. He took out his 401K, paid off my van and our only cc and used the rest to open our business. It't outdoor sports, guns, archery, fishing, live bait. At this point it's holding it's own. My DH has been very wise, in that there is no cc tied in with the business. All inventory is paid for. So if it went bust, the rest of the lease is all we would be out.

One thing he is starting though is pawn. He said at this day and age that it's a great way to make money. Part of me feels like we are taking advantage of people, but as he put it, they bought the items, they are bringing them to us, and if we don't offer it, they will just go somewhere else. He says that if we want our business to make it, we have to supplement somewhere.

Like everyone else, we are cutting back also. My son really needs new uniform pants, but I am going to see if I can let the hem out and give him another inch or so in the length. He grew an inch and a half between 11/16/07 and now. He really needs new shoes, and I have to get him good ones. I have an 11 year old whose toes are shoved to the tip of a size 12 man's shoe. He is also flat footed. We do watch the sales at Kohls though and try to get them there. I had him special fitted at a run/walk shop this summer and they were 100.00, but it was worth the investment to be shown what kind of shoes to buy and what not to buy.

I am proud, we haven't eaten out in 9 days now. That's like a streak for us. (Between my 1hr commute each way an 12 day work marathons that's a feat for me). I am lucky in that my employer does my retirement on top of my salary. We usually get a year end bonus, which I was really wanting, so I could get estimates on some new windows. But, we didn't. It's okay though, because he supplemented my retirement even more instead of a bonus. In the last 2 years (not counting what he just did, because I haven't recieved the paper yet) he has put over 10,000 in my account. My boss is a financial guru. Does all the stocks and markets and all that stuff I know nothing about, so I am lucky to have him. We do have a savings, but got a feeling it will be going to uncle sam this year. We really want to do a WDW trip, but we will wait till after taxes. We did nothing last year. We borrowed a camper from a family member and went to a local state park. That didn't even turn out. Something electrical broke on the 2nd night and we had to come home.

Labgeek
 
This is a great thread. Scary, but great.

I'm thrilled we're getting a large tax return so we can pay off almost all of our credit cards we charged throughout last year (I know I know........I totally failed the Dave Ramsey class we went to).

However, the scared side of me wonders if we should save part of the money, and have it as some cash reserve.

In a recession, which is more important...........no credit card debt or no money "stashed"??????
 
lastly, i have to wonder how many of my co 'baby boomers' now faced with the depletion of much of their anticipated equity nest eggs and reduced potential for earnings from investments (if they saved anything:sad2: :sad2: ) will put off retirement. i have to anticipate that reducing the number of annual retirees from most professions will result in fewer job opportunities for people across the board-and esp. recent college grads. a couple of years ago there was talk of the impending 'silver wave' of boomers retiring and making application for social security benefits, it will be interesting to see if instead there is more of a silver trickle.

This is exactly what will happen if you believe the work done by the Employee Benefit Research Institute. 52% of workers over age 55 have saved less than 100,000 for retirement. 75% have less than 250K. So, unless all of these people have solid pension plans, well, it's going to be pretty tough to retire at age 65.

Younger workers are in even worse shape....and they're far less likely to have a pension than their older co-workers. A lot of people have gotten used to a higher quality of life, a lot of that "quality life" funded by a total lack of savings and an addiction to credit. I read threads on this board on a regular basis where people will list their financial goals. Often I see that people first want to pay off the credit cards, then save up so they can make the next WDW trip with cash, and then start *thinking* about retirement. And for many, the don't get there. And when times get tough, like now, 401ks get raided.....

EBRI also estimates that a couple retiring at age 65 will need about 300K alone to supplement Medicare. And that's if medicare is able to continue to pay out at current levels. And of course that's not going to happen. Medicare's current tab for future promised benefits is underfunded by a mere 32 *Trillion* dollars.

The fact is that most people will have to work as long as they possibly can. I'm just noticing more and more older people working these days. I think in many cases that they're working because they have to work, even if for the supplemental health insurance.


There is just an immense mountain of problems that we'll face in the coming 20 years in this country. I don't think many people think about it. If they do, they just brush it off and decide that they'll "'live for today", save nothing and spend every nickel they have. Or they figure that it will all just somehow work itself out. And it will likely work itself out in some manner, but the outcome may not be the one you were hoping for.
 

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