How Come the Happiest Place in the World is Usually Not Happy

[NotUrsula]

... you just had the misfortune of removing yourselves along the same route. Should they have removed the children sooner? Oh, probably, but you really can't complain that they were not taking them home.

It *does* bug me when parents constantly (and loudly) harp at their children about what the parents perceive as misbehaviour in a public place, when no one else in the public place would otherwise notice it happening. Once, when at a nice local restaurant here, we had a meal ruined by a mother who spent the entire evening loudly harping at her 12 y.o. over his table manners, which from what I could see, were just fine. The child never raised his voice or slurped. Perhaps he might have put his elbows on the table once or twice, but I was certainly more offended by the behaviour of the mother than by the behaviour of the child. I'm going to give a child some slack, but grownups should know better than to make a scene in public.

 

[Hayley]

Originally posted by Geebs
i really can't stand when people say that "you don't have kids..you don't understand".
....Its not fair when something that we paid good money for is ruined because of kids screaming and parents not removing them.(this is true for places home too...not just disney)

Hey there Geebs, I totally agree with you and I have kids.

The thing is, this topic comes up all the time and sometimes it turns into an all out fight! I really believe that some parents just don't understand what we're saying.

I saw a lady in the grocery store that had a little one who was having a fit about wanting something - not sure what. This woman was really frazzeled, but she continued to calmly tell him to sit down, stop shouting, no he couldn't have whatever...my heart went out to her and I smiled sympathetically.

There is a huge difference between this and when you're having dinner at the California Grill and parents are ignoring their child with a temper tantrum- I don't care what they are trying to teach their kid - I don't care if it gives the kid the wrong message to take them out of that restaurant -- that's what they should do - because it simply isn't fair to everyone else if they don't.

We're not frowning disapprovingly at your child every time he cries - not at all. But there is a limit...

But back to the topic -- Some people just aren't disney people. If you think about it, you can spot a disney person a mile a way - big smile, silly hat, loaded with enthusiasm. And then there are those like my brothers in laws who never should have gone in the first place. They were in a bad time the whole time we were there and tried to take us all down with them - didn't work!

 

[buzz5985]

There is a huge difference between this and when you're having dinner at the California Grill and parents are ignoring their child with a temper tantrum- I don't care what they are trying to teach their kid - I don't care if it gives the kid the wrong message to take them out of that restaurant -- that's what they should do - because it simply isn't fair to everyone else if they don't.

I hope you don't think I would take my child to an expensive restaurant and let him scream. No way. LOL He went to Simba's playhouse at AKL. Our idea of a nice restaurant with children is Rainforest Cafe - can't hear them screaming over the Thunder!!!

 

[Hayley]

Originally posted by buzz5985
I hope you don't think I would take my child to an expensive restaurant and let him scream. No way. LOL He went to Simba's playhouse at AKL. Our idea of a nice restaurant with children is Rainforest Cafe - can't hear them screaming over the Thunder!!!

I don't think that at all! I was just always amazed how heated these discussions have gotten in the past - I'm sure they've been locked. It always seemed like the 2 sides were saying the same thing but nobody was listening to anybody. When people would say that they hated it when another person's kids would cry the whole way through an entire dinner at an expensive restaurant, some people with kids would get so angry. I really think they were only hearing part of the sentence and thought that it meant that the person hated <b>all</b> children that <b>ever</b> cry!

There are those parents, like the ones who were sitting next to me at the California Grill one night, that let their kids totally run wild; crying, whining, crawling on the floor, throwing food... They are definately in the minority - they just stick out like a sore thumb and can really ruin an evening. And I can't believe they're doing their kids any good, either.

 

[lindam7]

we took our son on his first wdw trip when he was 5 year old. We took him out of kindergarden and went in may when it was not as crowded. We will never forget the sparkle in his eyes when we went on the "Magic Golf Ball" in epcot. That was his first attraction. He is 14 years old now and he still loves this ride. Parents must remember that this is about the children, not all the money you spent to get there. Relax, and enjoy because your children will never be young again. A couple of years ago when we were there with my sister, my son had rode the "Magic ball" 3 times and wanted to go on it one more time before we left epcot. My husband flipped out and wouldn't get on it with him, so guess what, I left my hubby, whom I love dearly, standing there with my sister and I rode it with my son again!!! It took all of about 5 minutes and he really felt like a heal afterward. Life is too short to be angered by such small things. We just lost a 16 year old cousin to leukemia, and I know her parents would do anything to have her back for a trip to wdw. So please just love your children and enjoy your time with them.

 

[cart-mom]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone without children. I just meant that you see things differently before & after kids. And as far as having my kids scream at an expensive restaurant - NO WAY! I don't let them get away with that even at a family restaurant. I'm always taking my kids out to eat and am quite frequently complimented on their behavior.
I agree with alot of the posts that refer to the parents who have everysinglesecondoftheirtripplannedout. What must they be like at home? These people can't be changed.
We vacationed before & after the kids and just take things slower now.

I think more people should slow down and learn to appreciate what they have and just take things a day at a time. If you don't get on all the rides you wanted to - it's just a good reason to have to come back again some day.

Let's face it, we have a wonderful gift of freedom. Can't we all just be a little more tolerable and aware of each other?

Later days.....

 

[Gone Disney]

This is a real touchy spot for me.

I realize that the majority of the people on this board go to WDW more than once and some of us go more than once a year even. So we are not so worried about getting to see everything. While others are going crazy trying to fit a lifetime of WDW into a short vacation.

I do know that some kids are easier to deal with than other children. While my youngest has been tracking through WDW since her 4th birthday she has never sat in a stroller on WDW property. She is now 7 1/2 and she can outlast me on any trip.

What really ticks me off are the parents. While I am not at all perfect please don't take it that way. I do have my moments. However I can not stand to see parents who yank the child by the hand and pull them to wherever it is they have to go while yelling at this poor child who is crying with tears flying. I have witnessed this and even just this past Saturday I saw this happen to a little boy in MK. I felt so bad for the boy I wanted to pick him up and take him home with me.

I didn't do or say anything, they were gone before I could think. I don't know what I would have said either. Before I hear all the "Parents Loose it to" stories. I do want to say I don't know the whole story but I know there is a better way than that.

Let the child have his/her fit. Try to difuss the situation best you can. But please do not do anything without thinking first. It's best to allow the child the moment to get it out. Perhaps it could be avoided by the majority of ideas already suggested, ie. take it slow, don't have high expectations, relax with the schedules. Give in to the child if your able to, it is a vacation for the ENTIRE family not just mom and dad. Most of all Take A Breath already!

We went to WDW this past Saturday, a day trip. Epcot was first and by noon we were going to head to MK well DD got to feeling bad and wanted to go home. We made a stop in the restroom as we headed out and by the time we got to the truck she had decided to go on to MK. DH and I would have been ok either way, we were ready to head home but willing to give MK a shot. We made our way to MK and had a few more hours of fun and finally left around 6:30 to head for home. I could have gotten upset but why? That would seem rediculous. What am I suppose to say, "If you think I'm driving 2 hours to spend 3 hours in a park and go home your nuts so you better get to feeling better right now!" I really DO NOT think so. We have to remember that more times than not the bad things are likely to hang around in your memory and the last thing I want is my child remembering how I made her really sad at WDW. Even when the fit lasted 10 minutes and was over nothing and I couldn't recall it to save my life but yet it's all she remembers about the trip. That would kill me.

My finally words
Parents Lighten Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry so long
Gone Disney

 

[Gone Disney]

Just wanted to add a quick comment.

I do not think parents should allow thier children to misbehave at all. As for restaurants and other places, like shows, I think you must take appropriate action such as removing yourself until the situation is handled. In a calm manner that is, not exploding over your child. Please I ask make your kids sit while eating even at a less expensive restaurant. It's not right to have kids run around any restaurant, except Chuck E Cheese, I guess. This goes for stores to. I expect my children to behave especially in public and I respect them as people also.

I'll shut up now


Gone Disney

 

[Popsicle]

How many times have I heard my DB say, "If I had a nickel for every tear I've seen at DW...."

Each child is an individual. Each family is unique. Our first trip was what we thought would be our last. Party included DB, DSIL, nephew 5, and baby nephew about 18 or 20 months. We didn't know what to expect. Didn't know about these or any other Disney planning boards. We just knew we wanted to surprise the 5 year old with the trip of his life.

On the last day, as we were heading to the trams from MK, DB referred to it as the Disney Death March because we tried to do everything the 5 year old wanted to do. Our planning guides were the park brochures. If he saw something he wanted to ride, we rode it. It was really his trip.

The baby was enamored of Belle. (Glad we're in the age when little boys with dolls are not frowned on.) Belle had to go everywhere with us. Hotel, parks, breakfast, lunch, dinner, swimming. The last night he lost Belle. Think it was during the SpectroMagic Parade. He started BAWLING. For some reason we couldn't find a Belle in the shops at the front of the park, so the SIL had to run to who knows where to find one. He was appeased, and didn't question the fact that this Belle had all her clothes on, unlike the other one.

If someone had seen this, they might have gotten the impression that the child was tired, or had been yelled at, or that there was something wrong other than the fact that he had lost his beloved Belle.

All that said, our trips have been for the children. We do what they want to do, as long as they meet any riding guidelines, and as long as they adhere to behaviour codes they learned and practiced at home. You can't begin training when you're out in public expecting children to adhere to parameters they've never heard of before. We go where they want to go because we go for them. Did the younger one get cranky from time to time? Yes. But he also got cranky from time to time at home.

He's 12 now, and for those who think 18 or 20 or 22 or 24 months is too, young to take a child to Disney because they won't remember it, he doesn't remember that first trip, but all the adults do, vividly. Besides, we show him pictures (including those with him holding Belle. LOL)

Children cry. Most parents respond appropriately. Whacking them so hard a passerby by can feel the vibrations is not appropriate.

Sometimes judgments are made about others behaviour that do not reflect what is going on with the people involved.

 

[miko]

I am not sure if you can set an age limit on what age is good to bring kids to WDW, too many variables. I would like to tell a little story that might make you think about toodlers walking in crowds.
Quite a few years ago when Cam-corders were just coming into vogue and were rather large we rented one on a trip to WDW. It was in July, hot and crowded. After taping a character show in front of castle, I thought I turned off the camera as we headed towards Frotierland. I carried the camera at my side, probably just about eye level for a young child. All I can say is that the view from their was pretty scary! Nothing but legs and butts of all sizes and shapes and even a few lit ciggarettes!
So try and put yourself in your childs place and perspective in a hot sweaty crowd and you might save them from some physcological problems in the future!!!!!

 

[pintrader]

while I can respect all the defending arguments I have read here, I want to speak up. As an almost daily visitor to the world. I have some reflections that might surprise some of you. I can go EVERY day if I choose to. And often I do choose to. I sit on a bench and watch people, listen to people.

For those of you who go from time to time your interest, focus and time are well spent on things other than things that I, as a "people watcher" find enjoyable.

Let me tell you the answer to the original question, "How Come the Happiest Place in the World is Usually Not Happy" was asked by another person who has spent time aware of what was going on in more than just their party.

It stuns me sometimes what people think is normal to the rest of the world just because it is "normal" to them. YES there is an age at which children are too young to enjoy the world and yes it does dampen the immediate parties enjoyment AND MOST of those around them. This statment may not apply to you and your party but it is a valid statement non-the-less.

I sit and listen to conversations about offending families after they have left an area. People say they don't care what other peole say or think but perhaps the person who said they don't care, should. The others around them paid very good money to be there too. If you are getting unfriendly glances or outright stares or glares, perhaps what is "normal" to you is not commonplace "normal".

Or if being cranky and unruly happens at home too, I should like to point out that only loving family member must endure it at home. Perhaps it should not be an acceptable way of behaving in public in huge, potentially stressful lines and crowds no matter how much money YOU spent. Again if this does not describe your child or experience, this isn't anything you need to consider.

I sit on the monorail and ride round and round talking and visiting with children who are 8,9,10,11 older. (actually all ages) I always ask if this is their first trip. I can tell you unequivicably that EVERY child who told me that it was not his first trip and who has also come over and sat next to me has shared that they don't remember their first trip.

Parents are stunned. They try to convince the child what a good time he or she had by trying to prompt their memory with things the parent enjoyed. Yes some children have memories back to the womb I realize that but if you take Mikos comment "All I can say is that the view from there was pretty scary! Nothing but legs and butts of all sizes and shapes and even a few lit cigarettes."you can surely get a different perspective on this.

These trip have the potential to be just as traumatizing as enjoyable. But parents want to believe that they are ALL having fun after they have spent so much money to make it happen. My truth is that children under the age of six mostly have no memory of their previous trip. When they tell me what they remember they admit that they remember it due to a photo of the moment that was shared with them. They don't actually have that memory feeling or remember the trip. Your little ones may be an exception. But by-and-large my visiting with families proves to me that point over and over again.

Now if your children really had a good time you are not who I am referring to. Nor is it who, I believe MikeWazowski was referring to either. This is a great thread to get those who only think their little one is not misbehaving or is having a great time when he/she is not to think about it a little morel I believe in the statement Mike made

You could not find a better place to leave your problems behind in.

even if home right now is a hotel room.

Please don't think I am childless I am like most of you I have VERY well behaved adult children now. I NEVER imposed a cranky child on absolute strangers. You have no idea how many uneaten restaurant meals we both got up and walked out on (or movies or shopping trips etc.) because it was a treat to us to eat out and we believed it was for the others in that room too. Why should they pay good money to listen to our unhappy little one? The answer is ... they shouldn't.


Phew!! was that a soap box I was on??? ooooops sorry I'll get down now.

 

[Belle5]

Pintrader,
I think if you read all of the posts on this topic including other threads from the past that were similar you will find that most of the parents aren't kidding themselves or anyone else about what their child remembers. (Read the thread on the families board about taking a child under one year.)

 

[grinningghost]

I think pintrader has excellent points. My DD has said she barely remembers her first WDW trip at age 4. In truth, I think she remembers none of it - except perhaps the Minnie Mouse lollipop she ate just before falling asleep during Spectromagic. If I had it to do all over, I would have waited - but I do find comfort in the fact that she did enjoy Dumbo and Peter Pan's Flight AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED - even if she doesn't remember it now. WDW is overwhelming - to almost everyone. My advice is, take your kids out to restaurants frequently at home. Take them to the mall, grocery shopping - out in public frequently, before you take them to WDW. Get them used to other people. And even with all that, a WDW vacation will STILL be more than they've ever dealt with. Don't expect miracles.

 

[eeyore0062]

Pintrader, I wholeheartedly agree with you! That is why we chose to wait until our child was 6 to take her to WDW. We took her to the local theme park many times from the age of 2, but I can tell you... she really doesn't remember much of that before she was 5 or 6, and most of those memories came from pictures we took.

DH and I went to the World when DD was 4. She spent a happy time at my parent's beach house while we were there. Was she upset that we went without her? No, because she understood that much of what she had seen on the planning videos and in the books and was interested in, she was too small to ride. So we waited and took her when she was not only old enough to remember, mature enough to handle it, but was also big enough to ride what she wanted to ride. We had a blast, there were no meltdowns, and it was money very well spent.

I am not saying that people shouldn't take their little ones to WDW (especially those with older kids, too)... I am just saying that they may not remember it, and may not be mature enough to handle it. It is an individual decision, and it really depends on the maturity of the child, and the parents ability to cope with WDW with that child.

 

[deb305]

This is a great thread. I've been on both sides of the "we paid alot for this vacation you'd better enjoy it cause we can never afford another etc" coin. As a teenager my mom saved for 2 years so we could go to the park for one day. Once we got there we could not afford anything in it, just did the rides. Stress began the second we parked the car. Even today my heart goes out to the families who obviously (usually through their comments) emptied the bank to take their kids there. Sort of sets everyone up for a meltdown.
Now, we are an older couple (late 40's early 50's)with very young children. After decades of working, savings etc we have the luxury to be able to take the children to Disneyworld more than once in their lifetime so we can afford the leisurely pace so wisely recommended by Ducklite. And she's absolutely right, by not trying to see everything, we really can enjoy those few things we do.

As for kids misbehaving in public, duh. That's what kids do, if they had control of their emotions they would be adults. We try to make sure that any meltdowns they have do not inconvient other guests. We remove them from movies, restaraunts, etc until they calm down. We also try to avoid putting in circumstances that would leave to meltdowns. It's been so long since I've gone out to eat I think I have forgotten what a waiter looks like!

 

[SeaWitch]

Wow! What an interesting discussion.
I thought the comment about 'how things look from a childs standpoint' was very accurate - I misstepped off of a ride several years ago, sprained my ankle and was in a wheelchair for our last week... I told my DH that I was really tired of looking at people's butts! And, last year when it was raining, I wondered how it would be to get lost in a sea of yellow Mickey panchos if you were a child!! Scary!
My last comment would be to honestly think about who the trip is for... my Ex BIL and his new wife 'surprised' my niece/nephew with a trip to WDW (long story - but our side of the family was set to go on a 'surprise' trip that fall and YES, he knew about it) and they did the 'commando style' touring. When the time came to let the kids in on OUR surprise trip to WDW - they said "DisneyWorld, AGAIN? Can't we go somewhere else? - it wasn't that much fun."
I had a little talk with them and found out how they were in the parks ALL DAY, etc. I convinced them that we would take it easy. But, can you imagine, an 8 yr old girl & a 10 yr old boy NOT INTERESTED in going back to WDW?!!!! So, please, think about your kids... it's a magical place! Let them experience it, too!

 

[Hayley]

This thread reminded me of one awhile ago about whether or not there should be at least one restaurant at WDW where children were not allowed - you wouldn't believe the amount of people who were totally against it! THey felt that they should be able to bring the kids anywhere they wanted. I just think it would be nice to have a really fancy grown-up place -- just one!

It made me think that some parents have kind of lost touch with the rest of the world - the part that doesn't revolve around children. I loved it when my kids were little - it was a very happy time of my life. But now that they've grown, I have kind of a been there done that attitude and like grown-up evenings.

 

[Dallas_Lady]

On our trip in September, DH and I saw a man trying to pose his daughters for the customary in-front-of-the-castle picture and the girls were crying and saying they were sleepy. The dad yells in a very British accent "Just shut up and get in the f-ing picture!"

My DH went up to the man and said "Hey, have a zippidy-do-dah day"

 

[sandygirl]

This thread was interesting reading. Great points on all sides. Just wanted to weigh in with some thoughts.

We have been taking my DD5 1/2 to WDW since she was 2 1/2 yrs old. I travel with her alot for many reasons. She has been all over the country, to Mexico, and on three 7 day cruises (2 Eastern Caribbean, 1 Western Caribbean). Does she remember everything about each place she has traveled to? Absolutely not. Do I think that each experience has influenced her and the way she views her world? Absolutely. And I am constantly amazed at the details she does remember.

One of my favorite moments from our trip to WDW when she was 3 1/2: we had taken a break and headed to Tom Sawyer's Island and Aunt Polly's to cool off and have some refreshment. The parade was passing by on the other side of the river and we were trying to catch a glimpse. We had taken our shoes off and were just sitting back and relaxing when DD saw some ducks swimming around in the river. She was enthralled. She could have watched those ducks all afternoon. I couldn't help laughing and telling my DH that we could have stayed home and watched ducks! And that is when it struck me - the moment was special because we were together, relaxing as a family, experiencing the moment together, and that was what I was paying for...time. I will never forget watching the ducks on Tom Sawyer's Island.

As far as behavior goes...we send DH back to the resort early before he gets too cranky!!!!

I expect the same behavior from my DD out as I do at home. I agree that practicing at home is the key. I also agree that the trip should be designed with the child in mind. You know your child and their limits. That being said, last Aug when my DD was just 5 I let her know that there were some things she was going to have to go along with because Mommy and Daddy wanted to do them. We would certainly do the things she wanted to do but she had to behave when we decided there was something we wanted to do. Being selfish was not an option. Overall we struck a nice balance and everyone enjoyed themselves.

My best advice: you cannot do it all, enjoy what you do!

 

[MzEeyore]

I love Disney and have since I was little even though I never got to go because my dad was always touring playing golf and he thought Disney was a waste. I finally got to go to Disney in Dec 2001 when I was 33 years old and I took my 5 year old daughter. We had the best time even though we had no clue as what we were doing--there were no time frames, no schedules, no plans on what we were going to do from minute to minute. I did make all PS dinning times and we rotated our day around those and even then we cancelled a couple of those because we were busy doing other things. I centered the entire trip around her and what she wanted to do even though there were several things that I personally wanted to do. We had the most awesome time just us girls (her daddy doesn't "get" Disney so he didn't go) and I have to tell you that she has NEVER been as well behaved as she was when we were at Disney. Yes, we had banana splits for dinner one night and it was great. Yes, we rode Goofy's barnstormer til I thought I would die but I will never forget the look on her face or the words that she said to me every night when we would get back to our room at the Wilderness Lodge. We would talk about what our favorite things were about the day before going to bed and every single night that we were there, she would look at me with twinkles in her little blue eyes and tell me that the best thing for her was that I made her feel special in the most special place on earth. She told me that she was having the best time and she thanked me for bringing her to Disney--imagine a 5 year old saying Thank you without being reminded to do so. That to me is MAGIC.