How come DCL isn't selling out?

[sponica]

Yeah, I was hoping that when the Treasure started sailing that one of the older ships would be used to do longer Southern Caribbean cruises or just sail out of San Juan, but instead they moved the Fantasy to do Bahamian cruises. We booked one because it's our favorite ship and to see Lookout Cay, but can't see us booking another one unless we get a Florida resident rate.

I was tempted by a 5 night on the Fantasy in February, but we wanted more nights so went with a 7 night on the Treasure in August.

 

[ichoose2believe]

We sail in September 2024 and were planning on going again in March/April 2025 or Early Summer 2025 on a longer cruise but for roughly the same price of the cruise and airfare we can go on a full Europe trip for 7-10 days. DS and I like DCL but I agree with others with the increase in pricing for the cruises and the flights being so very expensive we are looking at taking different types of trips. Our first cruise we were able to get from Cali to FL for about $350 for both of us round trip.

 

[mousefan73]

For European sailings, I don't really believe DCL is targeting Europeans. I think their target demographic is a traveler that likes the idea of visiting Europe but wants a very safe American retreat--surrounded by Americans speaking English--when they get back to the ship. Meinschiff, meanwhile, only appeals to a small % of Americans because there's a perception that the language and cultural barriers are too high, and you can see this by how little activity there is in the Aida/Meinschiff English message boards... most Americans would simply never consider those lines. And for the typical DCL cruiser, it's not an advantage if the ship is mostly filled with those speaking different languages or coming from different cultures. I have sailed with MSC several times, and the chief complaints from Americans mostly center around cultural differences.

So yes, DCL is for "wealthy" Americans, but that's the price DCL can charge to offer a safe retreat while allowing their American cruisers to dip a to into Europe without much effort. It's like a convenience fee.

I would argue that DCL, in their almost fanatical pursuit of premium margins, excludes a very large % of the total cruise market. Sometimes you need to offer multiple price points and target different segments of the market to create a pipeline for future cruisers, and I think it's very hard to get the average middle class European family into DCL for a first cruise with DCL's current price and itinerary offerings.

However, when the Adventure is launched, it's an entirely new ballgame. Because I don't think they intend to actively market the Adventure to Americans. They will basically be creating a new DCL ecosystem and market in southeast Asia. This will be very interesting to watch, because the pricing for the Adventure will almost certainly reflect the reality of a business that is growing from scratch rather than the Amerocentric DCL.

Agree but interestly DCL is actively trying to market to Germans in many channels, in german. they have no chance with Aida/Meinschiff unless you have a truly Disney family where Mickey is the USP and they are wealthy Germans. My point with Meinschiff etc.. is that Germany is a huge cruise market and DCL really has no chance here.

Good point on the convenience fee, but many other lines offer a better "premium" product for much lower.. Of course better is subjective but we recently sailed Virgin in Europe( I know adult only) but the itinerary, ( adria/Greece) and FOOD especially blew DCL out of the water. And we love the enterainment. But Virgin is a completely different demographic.

 

[DisneyAuntie12]

I love a Disney cruise but even I have to admit the new elements they have added to their newer ships don't have the WOW factor when compared to the things RCCL and even NCL are putting on their ships. (While I enjoyed our cruise on the Wish, I'm just gonna say the AquaMouse is boring and the Hyperspace Lounge was just meh.)

That was one thing I was disappointed about when I looked at the Wish… most of the cool new offerings seem to be locked inside the Kid’s Club. Cargo Bay looks amazing but isn’t a family activity.

That said, if we eventually branch out from the parks and start cruising, DCL would still be at the top of my list for the family focused element. I don’t want casinos or a crazy nightlife on a cruise while my son is young.

 

[Sanchez]

For European sailings, I don't really believe DCL is targeting Europeans. I think their target demographic is a traveler that likes the idea of visiting Europe but wants a very safe American retreat--surrounded by Americans speaking English--when they get back to the ship. Meinschiff, meanwhile, only appeals to a small % of Americans because there's a perception that the language and cultural barriers are too high, and you can see this by how little activity there is in the Aida/Meinschiff English message boards... most Americans would simply never consider those lines. And for the typical DCL cruiser, it's not an advantage if the ship is mostly filled with those speaking different languages or coming from different cultures. I have sailed with MSC several times, and the chief complaints from Americans mostly center around cultural differences.

So yes, DCL is for "wealthy" Americans, but that's the price DCL can charge to offer a safe retreat while allowing their American cruisers to dip a to into Europe without much effort. It's like a convenience fee.

I would argue that DCL, in their almost fanatical pursuit of premium margins, excludes a very large % of the total cruise market. Sometimes you need to offer multiple price points and target different segments of the market to create a pipeline for future cruisers, and I think it's very hard to get the average middle class European family into DCL for a first cruise with DCL's current price and itinerary offerings.

However, when the Adventure is launched, it's an entirely new ballgame. Because I don't think they intend to actively market the Adventure to Americans. They will basically be creating a new DCL ecosystem and market in southeast Asia. This will be very interesting to watch, because the pricing for the Adventure will almost certainly reflect the reality of a business that is growing from scratch rather than the Amerocentric DCL.

I agree with this and would add that when you reach a certain price point - for example, a $7,200 cruise fare (veranda room for 2) for one week in June 2025 Italy/Greece - travelers are going to be less risk averse and more likely to choose less "safe" options. I admit that I have a hard time comprehending why so many people, under the guise of feeling safe and comfortable, would want to be surrounded by the same things they see every day of their lives.

That $7,200 fare easily becomes a $12,000 trip when you add tips, airfare and excursions. I feel safe in saying that people who can afford that are less likely to be afraid of the language barrier and cultural differences. I don't want to pay five star prices for a three star experience when, for that money, there are so many other options. You could easily spend less than $12,000 on a two week European trip and have a much more immersive and complete experience.

 

[DCLMP]

Once I got rid of one of our two cars we saved boatloads of cash. That and canceling cable tv.

That's funny.

 

[DCLMP]

I agree with this and would add that when you reach a certain price point - for example, a $7,200 cruise fare (veranda room for 2) for one week in June 2025 Italy/Greece - travelers are going to be less risk averse and more likely to choose less "safe" options. I admit that I have a hard time comprehending why so many people, under the guise of feeling safe and comfortable, would want to be surrounded by the same things they see every day of their lives.

That $7,200 fare easily becomes a $12,000 trip when you add tips, airfare and excursions. I feel safe in saying that people who can afford that are less likely to be afraid of the language barrier and cultural differences. I don't want to pay five star prices for a three star experience when, for that money, there are so many other options. You could easily spend less than $12,000 on a two week European trip and have a much more immersive and complete experience.

My 12 night med cruise to Greek Isles was 3500 for a balcony on Royal. We spent three days in Rome and flew to Zurich for a few days after. I felt like it was pretty immersive. It's a lot easier to visit multiple places when on a cruise, but you don't need to pay Disney prices.

 

[happycamper47]

Everybody is talking price, but for us it's also the service level. My wife has mobility issues and she has never gotten the same level of personalized service on RCL, NCL, HAL or Princess that she gets on DCL. To us that is a major piece of the equation. Whether at the buffet with someone offering to carry her plate, get her drink and find us a seat, or to the pool deck where CM's offer to get her drinks, ice-cream or even food DCL stands out 1000 percent.

 

[BingoJoe]

The price has got silly. Its way more expensive than RCL and RCLs offer has been getting better and better. For example RCLs Island has more facilities than Disney's and your drinks package works there. Disney didn't even sell a drink's package last time I sailed with them.

If it was just a bit more expensive I would probably go Disney, but when I looked for a this summer is was double the price of the brand new RCL ship.

The lack of any alcoholic drinks packages and no included or prepaid tips offers/options also stacks up badly against the competitors.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

1) more ships
2) more competition for vacation dollars
3) revenge travel is now over and went the other direction
4) prices have gone up across the board, the other lines advertise lower prices and then nickel and dime you, and the categories of how they nickel and dime people have gone up. But Disney has always charged you more.

are we complaining there are more options? I'm not.

 

[LoveDaisy]

If this is true I suspect it’s a DCL issue because as mentioned earlier cruises are up and demand is up according to CLIA

I am a Disney fan and I cruise but I have not gone on a Disney cruise and I am not sure we ever will. Some reasons why I have not cruised on Disney. Cost, lack of variety in itineraries, lack of port departures locations, lack of adult activities, lack of dining options, MDR ‘entertainment’, menu selection in MDRs (no idea of food quality), and amount of kids on board. My DH also doesn’t want to go back to the old school muster drills he was shocked Disney went back to it.

 

[brentm77]

I don't disagree that price is part of the reason but also itinerary. We've "easterned" and "westerned" all we care to. Even "southerned" and "PC". If I go back to the Caribbean, it will be a land trip so I can really enjoy the culture. We may take the kids and grands to Alaska on DCL but for Europe, it's just DH and I and we think the smaller ships (~150 rooms) have better itineraries.

I agree. And I think the small cuts are starting to catch up.

I would say pricing, airfare, better family competition, very very stale itineraries, stale menus, and numerous small cuts to what you get on DCL. When you take away a small thing here, a small thing there, it doesn't seem like much, but over time customers start getting a nagging feeling like they paid a lot but didn't get the premium experience in return. It started for me at the parks just before the pandemic, and then I started to notice it on the DCL cruises post-pandemic. I still love DCL and the overall product, but it was obvious on our last few sailings that it wasn't the same product as when we started sailing, and that we were paying all time high fares and getting less.

I hope the market pushes DCL to step up its game, stop cutting small things, add things back, and innovate in ways that improve the overall experience for customers. Disney as a company needs to start thinking about how they can make a Disney vacation, whether on sea or land, stress-free, relaxing, and superior to other brands. It has moved too far in the other direction, where there are numerous pain points leading up to a Disney vacation and during a Disney vacation. It's the opposite of what most customers want from a vacation. Vacations with Disney used to be desired for how easy they were.

It feels to me like the parks and cruise division needs some new executive management with a bit more of the old-fashioned Disney innovative and creative side, and bit less of squeezing every penny of profit from customers. That doesn't work well for long-term success. Unfortunately, it's almost inevitable and unlikely to change do to shareholder pressure. I would at least take innovation and creativity in addition to profit focus. But it seems like we are only getting the profit focus these days.

Finally, I would love to see the inside numbers on how many people try the new ship and repeat cruising with DCL. I have a hunch its lower than the classic ships. With the obvious move from focusing more on the kids with adult comfort and fun being an afterthought, I am sure many parents aren't as eager to come back, even if the kids loved it. If that's the case, DCL isn't generating nearly as many customers who are hooked for life and filling the added capacity.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Everybody is talking price, but for us it's also the service level. My wife has mobility issues and she has never gotten the same level of personalized service on RCL, NCL, HAL or Princess that she gets on DCL. To us that is a major piece of the equation. Whether at the buffet with someone offering to carry her plate, get her drink and find us a seat, or to the pool deck where CM's offer to get her drinks, ice-cream or even food DCL stands out 1000 percent.

This is the biggest myth perpetually repeated in this fourm. Service standards are extremely high on every single cruise line - including Carnival. My mom had mobility issues and I’ve yet to trac with her on a cruise in which employees in the buffet didn’t offer to walk her plate to the table, get her drink, etc. it’s their job . We traveled Princess over the holidays and she fell in port. She refused medical treatment as we didn’t have insurance. The ship’s capital personally came to our stateroom and walked her to the medical center, insisting on covering the bill.

If service is better on DCL it would be marginal and certainly not worth the cost to the average person.

 

[happycamper47]

This is the biggest myth perpetually repeated in this fourm. Service standards are extremely high on every single cruise line - including Carnival. My mom had mobility issues and I’ve yet to trac with her on a cruise in which employees in the buffet didn’t offer to walk her plate to the table, get her drink, etc. it’s their job . We traveled Princess over the holidays and she fell in port. She refused medical treatment as we didn’t have insurance. The ship’s capital personally came to our stateroom and walked her to the medical center, insisting on covering the bill.

If service is better on DCL it would be marginal and certainly not worth the cost to the average person.

Didn't happen for us on RCL, HAL, Princess or NCL...So maybe she got lucky, my wife surely didn't.

 

[brentm77]

I do wonder if the Bahamas itinerary overload + 5 ships in florida for part of the year next year is part of the softer bookings. I just checked the cruise I have booked for next August and I don't think prices have risen that much since I booked it with a placeholder.

Caribbean overload has happened to us a bit. Don't get me wrong. I love sitting on a white sand beach, snorkeling, and swimming in crystal clear water. However, when you start seeing some 7-day cruises in the 10K range for a regular verandah room, you start thinking about all the other cool places in the world you can go (in style) for that money, which doesn't even include airfare. We looked at the Treasure for next year and immediately said, "let's do that land trip we have been wanting to do in Europe instead, we've done the Caribbean a lot." (First world problems, I know, but also DCL's problem if people like us don't come back as often).

 

[bcwife76]

Disney has somewhat indirectly admitted that things are getting tougher for the cruise line... by openly admitting that attendance at the parks in the US is dropping due to a combination of factors... which for one is the end of the "revenge travel period" that was fueled by extra savings and credits that people had been provided during the pandemic. As those extra savings are drying up and prices also going up (both the price of a Disney vacation... and generally cost of living meaning less discretionary spending) + a general increase in inventory (both by DCL itself and the industry). You are also seeing a bit of a drop in non-US guests sailing due to what is becoming a less favorable exchange rate... DCL has been offering at least one cruise going over Christmas at a 25% discount for Canadians for two years in a row now... this is telling too... but also a sign that the launch of the Treasure is having an impact on other ships.

We took a cruise on the Wonder over New Years 2022/2023 that we booked on a CDN residents rate! And currently we have a cruise out of Galveston for March 2025 (9 months away!) booked on a CDN residents rate. So there are definitely lots of cruises that are not selling well.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Didn't happen for us on RCL, HAL, Princess or NCL...So maybe she got lucky, my wife surely didn't.

Your wife must be extremely unlucky because it’s literally their job on most cruise lines.

 

[peder]

Agree but interestly DCL is actively trying to market to Germans in many channels, in german.

Hmm, maybe trying to build awareness of DCL in advance of permanently increasing presence in Europe?

My 12 night med cruise to Greek Isles was 3500 for a balcony on Royal. We spent three days in Rome and flew to Zurich for a few days after. I felt like it was pretty immersive. It's a lot easier to visit multiple places when on a cruise, but you don't need to pay Disney prices.

That's how we like to travel as well. Land + sea. Kids like a little downtime and familiarity of the ship, since the rest of the travel is kinda hard for them, but we're still able to see some new places at the same time, even if the experience during the cruise portion of the trip is a bit shallow.

 

[Pigwie]

I looked at booking 2 verandah cabins on the treasure for early next year. $14,000 for 4 people. The same cruise this year was $9000 for 4 people on the fantasy. January or February is the only time my boys can both take time off due to work deadlines. Not worth it for us. Just too much money.

The reason it was so high in Jan. next year is because it is the first couple cruises of the new Treasure. You can't really compare a cruise on the older Fantasy to a cruise on the brand new Treasure, of course that will be more expensive regardless of inflation!

 

[Karin1984]

I don't really believe DCL is targeting Europeans.

They started trying to target Dutch people. They had a video made with an average Dutch family (mom, dad, 2 kids ages 5-8 I guess) and they told what they were doing on the ship. It was hilariously awkward. The average Dutch family is not good at advertising a product. It sounded so incredibly forced.
And inbetween the interviews they had shots from the American promotional material, so the handsome people by the pool etc, people who just do not look like Dutch people in any way.
It is still one of my favourite commercials, for all the wrong reasons.

And in addition to this:
- Cruising itself.
1. Cruising is very much associated with the elderly. We can blame Holland America for this, they target old people in their video commercials and their advertisements are everywhere.
2. Only 2% of the country goes on a cruise for a holiday.
- Price:
The Dutch are very stingy. Did a google: average price spend on a Summer vacation is 845 euro (roughly the same in dollars). Seems low, because it is. But we go on holiday 2-3 times a year and the other vacations also need a budget.
- Destinations:
France, Germany and Spain have been the top vacation countries for years in the Netherlands. However, what we do is go to a country and explore for 1-3 weeks. Because we can do a city trip to Rome, Barcelona, Athens on a long weekend. Targeting Dutch people to go on European cruisings where you just do 1 city a day, it doesn't match with how we vacation.

If they want the Dutch, they have to do something about price and show why it is worth it to fly to the other end of the world to get a good deal.