How come DCL isn't selling out?

[greeneyedchick]

I agree. And I think the small cuts are starting to catch up.

I would say pricing, airfare, better family competition, very very stale itineraries, stale menus, and numerous small cuts to what you get on DCL. When you take away a small thing here, a small thing there, it doesn't seem like much, but over time customers start getting a nagging feeling like they paid a lot but didn't get the premium experience in return. It started for me at the parks just before the pandemic, and then I started to notice it on the DCL cruises post-pandemic. I still love DCL and the overall product, but it was obvious on our last few sailings that it wasn't the same product as when we started sailing, and that we were paying all time high fares and getting less.

I hope the market pushes DCL to step up its game, stop cutting small things, add things back, and innovate in ways that improve the overall experience for customers. Disney as a company needs to start thinking about how they can make a Disney vacation, whether on sea or land, stress-free, relaxing, and superior to other brands. It has moved too far in the other direction, where there are numerous pain points leading up to a Disney vacation and during a Disney vacation. It's the opposite of what most customers want from a vacation. Vacations with Disney used to be desired for how easy they were.

It feels to me like the parks and cruise division needs some new executive management with a bit more of the old-fashioned Disney innovative and creative side, and bit less of squeezing every penny of profit from customers. That doesn't work well for long-term success. Unfortunately, it's almost inevitable and unlikely to change do to shareholder pressure. I would at least take innovation and creativity in addition to profit focus. But it seems like we are only getting the profit focus these days.

Finally, I would love to see the inside numbers on how many people try the new ship and repeat cruising with DCL. I have a hunch its lower than the classic ships. With the obvious move from focusing more on the kids with adult comfort and fun being an afterthought, I am sure many parents aren't as eager to come back, even if the kids loved it. If that's the case, DCL isn't generating nearly as many customers who are hooked for life and filling the added capacity.

I'm a shareholder and I would love for them to go back to the amazing creativity and world-class guest services. I strongly feel that their cost-cutting and inattention to customer service will bring down their profits in the long run (it's already starting). They've abandoned the thing that made them different and better than most companies. Maybe if they were also cutting prices, too, then I would see the value. As it stands now, they have lost my family as a customer. I'm not paying a premium price for a sub-par experience.

 

[Memorymakerfor4]

Hang on to your hat, then. Vancouver airfare and hotels are pricey, especially in the peak months.

Look into flying in to Seattle. Stay south of town. Use their light rail to get to downtown. Catch Amtrak to Vancouver (the Seattle train station is beautiful and the ride beside the ocean is a relaxing experience).

Check out the YWCA in Vancouver if you need a hotel there.

Wherever you opt to book your hotel, do it early for availability and price.

This can apply to any cruise line going to Alaska.

Thanks for the advice! I'd wondered about going through Seattle. Isn't there a ferry too?

 

[happycamper47]

Thanks for the advice! I'd wondered about going through Seattle. Isn't there a ferry too?

Not sure about a ferry, but there is a bus from the airport. https://quickcoach.com/ We've used it for all 3 DCL cruises. Takes you right into the port.

 

[LoveDaisy]

Have you tried Virgin Voyages? I feel like you would love it! Different destinations, adults only, fantastic food and lots of options included in the cruise fare, etc. And I felt like the service was on par with Disney for sure.

I have not but it’s on the short list for next year. I’m intrigued by their cruises. Friends who have cruised with them loved it. I appreciate you recommending it!

 

[brentm77]

Very few hotels have connecting rooms or family and if they do they often max out at 4 guests.

Even finding a room for four is hard. I don't know how European families travel using decent hotels without a crazy high cost. A family member was shocked when I told them the price of cruising for 9 days in Europe, and said, "can you imagine how nice you could stay on land for that? You could stay at five star hotels, dine like kings, etc." So I priced it out, and by the time I booked two hotel rooms (or a suite for four) that were at least equivalent to DCL (clean, safe, good reviews) and added dinners out and transportation, it was actually more expensive per day. Most of the places were were visiting were not inexpensive destinations. Yes, we could do it cheaper if we wanted, but we aren't really bargain hotel travelers now that we are older. Cruising Europe could actually save some families money.

It's not about wanting to be surrounded by people who speak only English or who are like me, as one person claimed. That's a ridiculous conclusion - we wouldn't be going to Europe if that was the case, and we had plenty of Europeans on our ship, which was great. I wouldn't care if I was the only American on the ship. It was about convivence really - coming back to the same room, which means unpacking once, getting to eat local food each day, but still have an easy dinner every night without hunting around or waiting for a table, seeing more places in 9 days than we could by other travel, since we went to a new place each night while we slept, etc. Yes, I could have an even more immersive experience on land, but its a very different vacation and not always what I am looking for during my time off from work. Sometimes I am looking for that and won't cruise in that case.

 

[DCLMP]

What is funny is how much people spend on their transportation costs. 2nd only to housing. Cars are outrageously expensive now days.

Ours are old and paid off. I agree with you about car prices.

 

[DCLMP]

Even finding a room for four is hard. I don't know how European families travel using decent hotels without a crazy high cost. A family member was shocked when I told them the price of cruising for 9 days in Europe, and said, "can you imagine how nice you could stay on land for that? You could stay at five star hotels, dine like kings, etc." So I priced it out, and by the time I booked two hotel rooms (or a suite for four) that were at least equivalent to DCL (clean, safe, good reviews) and added dinners out and transportation, it was actually more expensive per day. Most of the places were were visiting were not inexpensive destinations. Yes, we could do it cheaper if we wanted, but we aren't really bargain hotel travelers now that we are older. Cruising Europe could actually save some families money.

It's not about wanting to be surrounded by people who speak only English or who are like me, as one person claimed. That's a ridiculous conclusion - we wouldn't be going to Europe if that was the case, and we had plenty of Europeans on our ship, which was great. I wouldn't care if I was the only American on the ship. It was about convivence really - coming back to the same room, which means unpacking once, getting to eat local food each day, but still have an easy dinner every night without hunting around or waiting for a table, seeing more places in 9 days than we could by other travel, since we went to a new place each night while we slept, etc. Yes, I could have an even more immersive experience on land, but its a very different vacation and not always what I am looking for during my time off from work. Sometimes I am looking for that and won't cruise in that case.

I always tell people with kids to take a cruise if they go to Europe. People don't realize that hotels in Europe are not like hotels in the US. Sometimes it's a challenge to even get two beds in a room. Our pre and post hotels stays we always needed two rooms.

 

[MomOTwins]

Even finding a room for four is hard. I don't know how European families travel using decent hotels without a crazy high cost. A family member was shocked when I told them the price of cruising for 9 days in Europe, and said, "can you imagine how nice you could stay on land for that? You could stay at five star hotels, dine like kings, etc." So I priced it out, and by the time I booked two hotel rooms (or a suite for four) that were at least equivalent to DCL (clean, safe, good reviews) and added dinners out and transportation, it was actually more expensive per day. Most of the places were were visiting were not inexpensive destinations. Yes, we could do it cheaper if we wanted, but we aren't really bargain hotel travelers now that we are older. Cruising Europe could actually save some families money.

It's not about wanting to be surrounded by people who speak only English or who are like me, as one person claimed. That's a ridiculous conclusion - we wouldn't be going to Europe if that was the case, and we had plenty of Europeans on our ship, which was great. I wouldn't care if I was the only American on the ship. It was about convivence really - coming back to the same room, which means unpacking once, getting to eat local food each day, but still have an easy dinner every night without hunting around or waiting for a table, seeing more places in 9 days than we could by other travel, since we went to a new place each night while we slept, etc. Yes, I could have an even more immersive experience on land, but its a very different vacation and not always what I am looking for during my time off from work. Sometimes I am looking for that and won't cruise in that case.

Exactly. We are paying more per day for the time we are spending in rome before the cruise than we are for the cruise, and are just staying at a basic marriott hotel—would be far more at a luxury hotel.

 

[brentm77]

Hang on to your hat, then. Vancouver airfare and hotels are pricey, especially in the peak months.

Look into flying in to Seattle. Stay south of town. Use their light rail to get to downtown. Catch Amtrak to Vancouver (the Seattle train station is beautiful and the ride beside the ocean is a relaxing experience).

Check out the YWCA in Vancouver if you need a hotel there.

Wherever you opt to book your hotel, do it early for availability and price.

This can apply to any cruise line going to Alaska.

These are great recommendations. The other option is dropping DCL and taking one of the numerous other lines that sail out of Seattle. It has its downsides, but we personally decided it was worth it in the end.

 

[DCLMP]

Cruising in general is up and not down though so I'm not sure the inflation argument works

My thought is people are attracted to the all inclusive vacation that includes food. I am shocked every time we eat out. Even fast food prices are nuts.

 

[DCLMP]

Hmm, maybe trying to build awareness of DCL in advance of permanently increasing presence in Europe?


That's how we like to travel as well. Land + sea. Kids like a little downtime and familiarity of the ship, since the rest of the travel is kinda hard for them, but we're still able to see some new places at the same time, even if the experience during the cruise portion of the trip is a bit shallow.

Lugging the luggage around on trains and checking into different hotels and not having laundry facilities doesn't sound fun to me. Just visiting one or two cities a land trip would be fine. At least that's what I'm hoping when I go to Japan next year. I'm still toying with the idea of a cruise though.

 

[brentm77]

Similar comments keep getting repeated in this thread, but they’re not true. Industry prices are falling and it has been blamed on capacity increases outpacing demand. But just the other day cruise stocks had their worst day on over two years as several analysts asserted the problem is much deepest than capacity outpacing demand. Instead they believe demand is softening.

The cruise industry struggled for years to reach younger audiences. Post-pandemic, there was a surge in first time / younger passengers. It looked like all the money cruise lines invested in youth and family activities paid off. But now data is showing many of these people aren’t cruising again. Hence the growing concern.

JP Morgan is bullish about future demand:

Despite the tighter consumer spending environment however, both ticket and onboard prices have increased in recent months. Royal Caribbean International cited that in addition to record ticket pricing, consumer spending onboard and pre-cruise purchases continue to exceed prior years. In the same vein, Carnival Cruise Line’s onboard revenue in the first quarter of 2024 was +17.6% versus the first quarter of 2019.

Overall, the demand backdrop remains robust for the cruise industry. “We estimate that 85%+ of tickets have been booked for 2024, and the focus is turning to 2025, with bookings to date already ahead of historical levels,” Boss said. “Looking ahead, we see the industry growing revenues by high-single digits over the next five years, capturing ~3.8% of the global vacation market by 2028.”

https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/g...ackdrop remains,historical levels,” Boss said.

 

[peder]

It's not about wanting to be surrounded by people who speak only English or who are like me, as one person claimed.

Hey, I'm with ya! I just know that not every traveler is always very adventurous, or maybe they get overwhelmed by travel and going with DCL is one way they can at least guarantee that part of their trip is familiar. And I do think nervous-but-stepping-outside-their-comfort-zone customer is a core customer for DCL cruises in Europe. The economics and culture of Europe just don't make sense for DCL to be targeting Europeans, and for Americans, it's a fair question asking why you're spending time within the Disney bubble (one of the most American things possible!) while in Europe. I think for most American DCL cruisers in Europe, the answer is that they don't really want to be immersed into Europe the entire trip.

Even finding a room for four is hard. I don't know how European families travel using decent hotels without a crazy high cost. A family member was shocked when I told them the price of cruising for 9 days in Europe, and said, "can you imagine how nice you could stay on land for that? You could stay at five star hotels, dine like kings, etc." So I priced it out, and by the time I booked two hotel rooms (or a suite for four) that were at least equivalent to DCL (clean, safe, good reviews) and added dinners out and transportation, it was actually more expensive per day. Most of the places were were visiting were not inexpensive destinations. Yes, we could do it cheaper if we wanted, but we aren't really bargain hotel travelers now that we are older. Cruising Europe could actually save some families money.

Agreed that many hotel options are expensive, but there are lots of modern hostel-like options that offer sleeping arrangements up to 8 in a room, with private bath(s) and great community spaces, laundry, etc (something like Ibis Styles hotels), and we've also found good Best Westerns, which I wouldn't have expected. Even if these have been somewhat expensive, I have to remind myself that I'm booking in the absolute middle of the city, close to everything, and then the prices make a ton more sense.

And I'd say that most luxury options in the mountains are cheaper than an equivalent option in California or Colorado. Still expensive, but I have not yet found the stratospheric pricing levels that you can find in CA.

 

[bobbiwoz]

These are great recommendations. The other option is dropping DCL and taking one of the numerous other lines that sail out of Seattle. It has its downsides, but we personally decided it was worth it in the end.

We decided on RCCL out of Seattle. For me, an attraction was we’re visiting Mt. Rainier before the cruise and Olympic NP, staying inside both NPs.

 

[peder]

Lugging the luggage around on trains and checking into different hotels and not having laundry facilities doesn't sound fun to me. Just visiting one or two cities a land trip would be fine. At least that's what I'm hoping when I go to Japan next year. I'm still toying with the idea of a cruise though.

We lugged our bags onto trains on our last trip, and it wasn't very much fun compared to renting a car. Will definitely be getting a car again next time.

 

[peder]

JP Morgan is bullish about future demand:

https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/global-research/travel/cruise-outlook#:~:text=Overall, the demand backdrop remains,historical levels,” Boss said.

As am I. I think the cruise lines are marketing really well via social media and luring in huge numbers of new customers much earlier in their lives than previously.

But there's also a TON of capacity coming online right now with these megaships. So demand might keep increasing, but supply might be outpacing that demand. Which could mean some relief in terms of crowds on the ships and/or pricing.

 

[Donna3271]

We're booked for a 7 night Alaskan next year and the cost is starting to bother me more and more. It's just so much money, and I haven't even calculated our travel and hotel costs for Vancouver yet.

We did DCL to Alaska. Honestly (please don't flame me). It was a great cruise, but if your kids are a bit older, and don't care for panning gold with Mickey, I would do Norwegian or another line. It is half the price and the scenery is the same. Castaway Cay is a different experience, and I love DCL and love going there.

There was also a Disney lumberjack show, that I booked direct through the venue, and paid the child price of 12 and under for my son (11 at the time). Booking direct through Disney, 9 is an adult.

FWIW, I am a Platinum cruiser.

 

[brentm77]

Hey, I'm with ya! I just know that not every traveler is always very adventurous, or maybe they get overwhelmed by travel and going with DCL is one way they can at least guarantee that part of their trip is familiar. And I do think nervous-but-stepping-outside-their-comfort-zone customer is a core customer for DCL cruises in Europe. The economics and culture of Europe just don't make sense for DCL to be targeting Europeans, and for Americans, it's a fair question asking why you're spending time within the Disney bubble (one of the most American things possible!) while in Europe. I think for most American DCL cruisers in Europe, the answer is that they don't really want to be immersed into Europe the entire trip.



Agreed that many hotel options are expensive, but there are lots of modern hostel-like options that offer sleeping arrangements up to 8 in a room, with private bath(s) and great community spaces, laundry, etc (something like Ibis Styles hotels), and we've also found good Best Westerns, which I wouldn't have expected. Even if these have been somewhat expensive, I have to remind myself that I'm booking in the absolute middle of the city, close to everything, and then the prices make a ton more sense.

And I'd say that most luxury options in the mountains are cheaper than an equivalent option in California or Colorado. Still expensive, but I have not yet found the stratospheric pricing levels that you can find in CA.

With respect to the hotels, I will have to check those out. But if I am being brutally honest, we wouldn't be comfortable in a hostel-like option. I'm a bit snobbish when it comes to hotels - I don't need 5 starts, but I won't be staying at a bargain hotel either. I did that for decades as a poor student and a poor newlywed. Now that I can afford it, I am looking for at least a mid to highish-level (think Grand Hotel Flora Marriott in Rome) when using valuable vacation time. It's very surprising from the American perspective to find so many hotel rooms that can't sleep four people when booking in Europe - which is standard here, for the same price as a hotel for 2 there. It seems like when I do find hotels that sleep four, they are strange setups - like two very small beds that wouldn't work for four adults (my kids are in college), or a pull out bed that wouldn't be comfortable. I am running into similar problems in booking a trip to Japan, but it isn't as difficult. I can't imagine doing it with 5, like @MomOTwins.

I don't disagree that for some people cruising Europe about easing into traveling there. I guess I didn't really feel like I was in the Disney bubble when sailing DCL in the Med. We spent nearly a week in Rome first, then used the ship to get to Sicily, Athens, Greek islands, and the Amalfi coast. We spent full days in each, ate local food, toured the sites. It wasn't as immersive as staying in Rome, but it wasn't that far off either - let's face it very few tourists are truly getting an immersive local experience. They are at tourist sites, interacting with people who are paid to be nice while the rest of the locals go on with their lives, and very rarely seeing how locals really live.

In the end, it's literally about getting older and having less energy. I still plan to take more land trips in Europe, but they are absolutely exhausting when you get to a certain age, unless you pick one place and stay there. Particularly when you are the planner in the family and responsible for keeping everyone on track and getting the family from place to place. Sometimes I just want easy.

 

[3 Hobbits 2 Disney]

We are still cruising DCL at concierge typically. We want to sail the Treasure after our January 25 Fantasy cruise but after that, who knows. I echo what a prior poster said about intineraries; I would like to see something new.

 

[I Run Long]

Thanks for the advice! I'd wondered about going through Seattle. Isn't there a ferry too?

There is a ferry but that goes to Victoria on Vancouver Island (where I live incidentally) but not Vancouver. I agree with the suggestion of taking the train up to Vancouver.