How close are you to your breaking point?

[CdnCarrie]

Certainly there were those togetherness aspects to the situation in WWII, but that was by no means a comprehensive look at it.

Many English children were shipped across the ocean, particularly to Canada, but some to the US as well.

Look at the years of deprivation to accommodate rationing and the disruption of many supply chains. Not very long ago we were watching a show called Back In Time, where families now were put into an experiment where their home, their clothing, their activities and their dinner plates reflected past decades. Participants struggled with hunger pangs and extreme dislike due to the amounts and types of things like the meats they had available to eat. They were going through it for a few days. Back in WWII getting liver, kidneys, heart, tongue, etc. at the butcher meant your family was getting some protein on their dinner plate. I can imagine that got old quick -- but people went through it for years.

I don't think it's quite fair to present the deprivations of WWII with so much of a glossy sheen and overlook the emotionally wrenching and mind numbingly mundane sacrifices that really wore people down over the course of several years.

I remember seeing that show advertised and wanting to watch it! I must have missed it when it aired or it didn't record. I should look for it. Was it worth watching?

 

[CdnCarrie]

Totally possible but enough of their posts are about the difference between Canada and the U.S. in a different way which is the only reason I mentioned that in the first place (and not as an insult but a way of giving the perspective).

I won't rehash those comments but they have existed over the course of this pandemic and throughout various threads and sometimes with the viewpoint that we must be all wild wild west-ing it in the U.S. even though there are some decisions being made of the same vain in each country (Canada and the U.S. respectively in this immediate discussion). Various posters have given them information on how things are done/set up/function in the U.S. that might shed light on their impression of the situation.

Thank you for giving the background regarding the varying levels of interaction within your Country.

I'm sure we are all just putting our our local info/personal perspectives same as everyone else. Its a trying time for everyone no matter what country.

 

[undertheradar]

With all of the finger pointing taking place by the elected officials in Washington, DC, why aren't voters more concerned about the lack of planning by long time elected officials? I find it to be insulting how daily news interviews ignore asking these officials why they never thought of planning for an event like this.

 

[cabanafrau]

I remember seeing that show advertised and wanting to watch it! I must have missed it when it aired or it didn't record. I should look for it. Was it worth watching?

We thought it was interesting. We watched the CBC versions I think about Back in Time for Dinner and Back in Time for Winter. I think they've been re-running some of them over the past couple weeks.

It was interesting watching what different family members reacted to and getting a little bit of insight about how and why some products came to market and the fact that various produce items weren't generally to be found in most Canadian (and similarly American) stores until X point in time and why.

 

[Colleen27]

There’s always going to be a level of non-compliance that I think was taken into consideration. Like how shoplifting is a line item in the budget for most stores. I think that “rule-breakers” tends to make the news.

I personally think the moving goal posts has more to do with a fear that they won’t be able to get people back home for a second time, especially if it happens soon. It’s much easier to keep people at home (you’ll get a few more in non compliance as time goes on) for longer than to let them out and then get them back in. People/businesses are adapting the best they can finally getting benefits or moving forward with new programs, but to flip flop or turn everything off again would be even more disruptive. The clock on all these things would just start over and the damage will be too much.

I also think those in charge of these decisions know there are other factors to consider but are scared of numbers rising and their decisions coming under fire. The ones screaming “keep things locked down until this is gone” seem to be the loudest voices. The criticisms and headlines right now all focus on doing things too soon. The people saying it’s time to get things moving are being accused of throwing life away for profit.

I think your last paragraph is dead-on. In certain circles that I'm active in, it seems to have become a sort of virtue-signalling around who is most dedicated and vocal about supporting any measures necessary to save every life possible and condemning anyone who disagrees as putting "profits over people".As though people worried about paying their rent and keeping food on the table are acting out of concern for their employers' bottom lines, rather than their own quality of life. It has been... disheartening, to say the least. I've given up on FB for the time being because I use it mainly to keep in touch with political organizations I volunteer for and I just can't take all the absurdity right now, calling for people to be confined to their homes and for grocery stores to ban in-person shopping and telling people that they're killing Grandma by taking a walk in the park. I know there's a lot of it on the other side too, but it sucks more to see it from people I generally thought of as reasonable.

To me the "moving of the goalposts" keeps happening because of how much we learn every single day about this virus. How many more tests we can get done. How much PPE we acquire, etc. How can they give a fixed date when no one knows anything? We learn every day about this thing.

That is likely a big part of it. The original academic papers and expert opinions supporting lockdown measures involved multiple pieces, including securing more PPE, expanding testing, and increasing hospital capacity. But ineffective leadership has reduced that multi-prong approach to just lockdown and, in some ways and some places, even moved us backward on the other metrics. Some people (and state leaders) are reacting to that failure by calling for stronger lockdown, since it appears to be the only tool we have for coping with this thing, while others are questioning the effectiveness of just having one part of the plan if there isn't going to be action on the rest.

I think the perception of moving goal posts is because there weren't fully formulated plans to begin with. Flattening the curve was misinterpreted as a complete strategy. Now it's a matter of what the next step entails and why it's the best set up for the different unknowns going forward. Transparency about the decision making process was weak from the start.

It was formulated as a complete strategy. Back when this started, there were policy papers and guest articles in major media outlets explaining it as a well-rounded, fully developed strategy for addressing the outbreak in such a way that the virus spread could be monitored and controlled to avoid overwhelming medical resources while gradually building up to herd immunity or a vaccine (whichever comes first at a rate of spread that would avoid throwing medical systems into crisis). It was never a painless approach, of course - that's not an option in the situation we're facing - but it was a plan with defined steps and goals, aimed at a particular outcome. If you want to see what the complete strategy looks like, read about Germany's response. They're implementing it all fairly well, not just the parts that can be done more or less for free and without any coordinated federal action.

 

[Searc]

So far, they have directly traced at least 40 cases to voting in person.

Now up to 52 traced cases from in-person voting.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm sure we are all just putting our our local info/personal perspectives same as everyone else. Its a trying time for everyone no matter what country.

You'd probably have to read prior comments over the course of the month for it to fully make most sense in the way I'm talking and I'm not really wanting to go down that road so I'm trying to just leave it at that.

Everyone should give their own personal perspective and information from their area. When you compare it to other places people will at times discuss when the impression one has may not be what's actually going on or the motives aren't as bad as one would think. That's what I'm referring to. And that goes for state to state comparisons and community to community comparisons as well as the discussion framed as the impression of what may be going on in the U.S. in comparison to Canada.

But yes absolutely it is a trying time for us all

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Now up to 52 traced cases from in-person voting.

I believe the thread is closed (IDK it was from a bit ago) when the WI voting was going on. Not too long ago my County announced that they will be mailing mail-in ballot applications to everyone. Normally you have to request that. You don't have to complete the application if you don't want to they are just giving you the option to do so.

We normally do advanced in-person voting (though my husband absentee voted last year while he was in CA and wasn't able to be home during the advanced in-person voting period) but I think I'll probably do mail-in advanced voting this time. Normally the in-person advanced voting I'm in and out in less than 5 mins, most of the time don't encounter a ton of people. However, I think I'll feel more comfortable avoiding it if I can just do mail-in.

 

[SaintsManiac]

My kid's math teacher is doing a lesson on protractors when none of the kids have them. I might reach the breaking point soon.

 

[RamblingMad]

Now up to 52 traced cases from in-person voting.

I’m mailing mine in if given the option.

 

[Colleen27]

Certainly there were those togetherness aspects to the situation in WWII, but that was by no means a comprehensive look at it.

Many English children were shipped across the ocean, particularly to Canada, but some to the US as well.

Look at the years of deprivation to accommodate rationing and the disruption of many supply chains. Not very long ago we were watching a show called Back In Time, where families now were put into an experiment where their home, their clothing, their activities and their dinner plates reflected past decades. Participants struggled with hunger pangs and extreme dislike due to the amounts and types of things like the meats they had available to eat. They were going through it for a few days. Back in WWII getting liver, kidneys, heart, tongue, etc. at the butcher meant your family was getting some protein on their dinner plate. I can imagine that got old quick -- but people went through it for years.

I don't think it's quite fair to present the deprivations of WWII with so much of a glossy sheen and overlook the emotionally wrenching and mind numbingly mundane sacrifices that really wore people down over the course of several years.

I don't mean to make it sound like it was all fun and games. I'm just pointing out that hardship tends to be easier to bear when it is collective, and that coming together - as extended families and as communities - was a big part of what helped people to bear the hardships of WWII.

But there was probably also an element of what people were used to - organ meat was normal for poorer and farming families back then (my grandparents enjoyed liver and tongue their whole lives, much to the disgust of us grandkids!), and with the country just coming out of the depression when the war began, a certain amount of deprivation was probably habit for many as well. What we're being asked to do is a starker break from "normal" for most - going from being constantly on the go to basically being confined to the house.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

I miss going to the beach and pool, I love to swim and get some sun. Other than that, I am not close to breaking at all.

 

[CdnCarrie]

We thought it was interesting. We watched the CBC versions I think about Back in Time for Dinner and Back in Time for Winter. I think they've been re-running some of them over the past couple weeks.

It was interesting watching what different family members reacted to and getting a little bit of insight about how and why some products came to market and the fact that various produce items weren't generally to be found in most Canadian (and similarly American) stores until X point in time and why.

Thank you! I did a search and set it up on PVR. Looking forward to it!

 

[J'aime Paris]

Now up to 52 traced cases from in-person voting.

And some of these 52 people reported that they had other possible exposures.
Unless all of these people (and members of their household) were 100% self isolated for a period of time prior to the election, it's impossible to attribute all of these directly to the election.

 

[Dole_whip_doll]

Alrighty, I’ve met it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Without going into too much detail, I offered to create something for my fellow staff and shoulder all costs. So I sent out info and told them if they want in to let me know. And was immediatelily met with “well, can I have more than everyone else?” “ can I have XYZ instead?” “Can you do this and that and add some of this and that?” I was just trying to do something nice and now I regret it.

 

[easyas123]

Ugh- Dole Whip, I’m sorry to hear that, it’s got to be frustrating for you. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t sometimes....

 

[Heather07438]

It was formulated as a complete strategy. Back when this started, there were policy papers and guest articles in major media outlets explaining it as a well-rounded, fully developed strategy for addressing the outbreak in such a way that the virus spread could be monitored and controlled to avoid overwhelming medical resources while gradually building up to herd immunity or a vaccine (whichever comes first at a rate of spread that would avoid throwing medical systems into crisis). It was never a painless approach, of course - that's not an option in the situation we're facing - but it was a plan with defined steps and goals, aimed at a particular outcome. If you want to see what the complete strategy looks like, read about Germany's response. They're implementing it all fairly well, not just the parts that can be done more or less for free and without any coordinated federal action.

It's exhausting trying to find any publicly posted cohesive detailed plans, if not impossible. There were talks of this and that with much uncertainty around how keeping the numbers down would be achieved. Even Germany seems to be making adjustments as it goes.

My state texted me this 5 minutes ago, brand new hot off the press:


A plan. Then some details on how to execute which I believe a task force is now working on. This way when we start re-opening in May there is a common understanding.

 

[undertheradar]

One thing I wish all local areas would do is list the businesses that are supporting first responders and medical staff. It would be nice to be able to show support to those who are trying to be supportive in these trying times. Our city has lawn signs promoting supporting local business and thanking first responders/medical staff. Just a small city way of showing civic pride.

 

[Colleen27]

Except there has been an uptick. Operation Gridlock happened on April 15, following 2 weeks of mostly declining numbers. 5 days later we start an upswing in cases that takes us back to near peak levels. We don't have the case surveillance in place to really find out what's related to what, but the concern is certainly justified.

More on that uptick, from a conversation I've been having with a reporter-friend living local to where this is happening...

Michigan has just started testing prison populations. The results of the first facility-wide testing went public Monday (yesterday), and found that about 800 inmates in a single correctional facility have the virus. According to my friend, the press release on the data went out at the start of the business day on Monday and her source said the test results were "probably" reported as part of the daily counts at the end of last week because they had the information in-office on Friday afternoon, though they're still waiting on results on a few dozen inconclusives. As this kind of testing continues to roll out statewide, it is going to skew the day-to-day case counts as hundreds of new positives are reported over the space of just a day or two. And in this case, that reporting just happened to coincide with people watching the data for a bump that could be laid at the feet of the protests.

 

[Dole_whip_doll]

Ugh- Dole Whip, I’m sorry to hear that, it’s got to be frustrating for you. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t sometimes....

I know, I just thought there’d be more gratefulness? Forgiveness? Easygoing? Given current situations, but I guess I just had too much faith in (Local) humanity!

I think I’ll make me a cool mixed drink now!