How can some people not get why they are overweight?

chobie said:
unlike smoking which harms Innocent bystanders with secondhand smoke, and drinking which causes many car fatalities every year, your vice is not harming anyone.
This could be the topic of a whole other debate. Why? How many of you have seen your health insurance premiums rise steadily in recent years? There are many reasons to explain rising costs, but a big one is increasing utilization of health care resources. And there is good data to support the fact that obese patients have higher medical expenses in general - more diabetes, more arthritis, more heart disease, etc. So the rising obesity rates, while not impacting my health, may impact my wallet.

I can think of several other ways that the obesity epidemic impacts costs and product availability for everyone whether you are overweight or not, but I don't want to send us off on that tangent. It is an interesting topic, though.
 
disneysteve said:
Here’s the problem with that line of thinking:

Our genetic makeup has not changed in the past 10 or 20 or 30 years. But the obesity rates in this country have risen dramatically. Genetics doesn’t explain why people born and raised in countries with low obesity rates (like Japan) move to the US and have their obesity rates rise to match folks born and raised in this country. Same goes for their diabetes and heart disease rates. Their genes didn’t change when they came to the US. Only their diet, activity level and lifestyle changed.

I get what you are saying. Even the tinest people can eat like pigs and become fat. But can't we reverse that, and assume some people don't eat like pigs but are still fat? Surely it must not be that easy to be skinny, or else we'd all be doing it, wouldn't we?

When I was doing Weight Watchers through a work program I had a "buddy" who struggled with her weight all her life. I saw her 5 days a week for 8 hours each day and I knew what she was eating....she was sticking to the program. As was I. At the end of each week I would lose 2 or 3 pounds, she'd lose 1/2 a pound, if she were lucky. Hence, it was harder for her to lose weight. Thus, isn't it reasonable to say some people are meant to be fat, or at the very least, heavier than average?
 
snoopy said:
I've been saying that all along, but its yet to be addressed. I mean, just like there are short people and tall people, aren't there just some people who are born to be fat?

Back when I was young, in my parent's generation, that was just a fact of life -- some people were fat. It certainly wasn't boiled down to having emotional issues or whatever or something wrong with the character of the person who was genetically predisposed to being fat.

Snoopy,
I think that, yes, some people are born to be fat. What I think the issue is, is that we are grossly overestimating what that percentage of people is. I bet it is very small. Just as bicker pointed out earlier with the 5% PCOS stats, a lot of people will tell you that they have this condition or that condition, but they don't. There are conditions and genetics that lead to obesity, it's just not that high of a percentage as we like to believe.

I also think that we are becoming more and more accustomed to seeing heavier people and we no longer have a good idea of how a healthy person is supposed to look. When I grew up and was in elementary school in the 1960s/1970s, the heavy child was the "odd" child and stood out. That's one reason it was so awful for them. They truly were in a minority and looked different. Even when I got to high school, there were only a handful of kids that were truly overweight. Today, it's a different story. My DS is 10 years old and is 4'11 and 85 lbs. His classmates tell him that he is "freakishly skinny". He's got a fat roll on his stomach. I sit in the parking lot of my kids' school while waiting for them and I can't believe how many of them are truly FAT. Most of the time, though, I don't really even notice it anymore. It used to shock me, now I grown used to it.

Last week, I was looking at some pictures that were taken during my high school years. They weren't of me but of people I went to school with and they were all at a pool party. The first thing that struck me was: wow, look how THIN these people are. Then I really started looking at the pictures and remembering each person. Back in the day, they didn't strike me as being thin at all. In fact, there was one picture of a girl who I thought was on the chubby side in high school. Looking at her now, well, she looks pretty darn good. At the same time, I was viewing my best friend's daughter's prom pictures taken 2 weeks ago. These kids were the same age as the kids at the 1980s pool party. Let me tell you, it seems we are a heftier bunch of people these days!! It's just funny though how you don't even notice it anymore, but I think the changes are drastic over the last 30 years.
 
disneysteve said:
This could be the topic of a whole other debate. Why? How many of you have seen your health insurance premiums rise steadily in recent years? There are many reasons to explain rising costs, but a big one is increasing utilization of health care resources. And there is good data to support the fact that obese patients have higher medical expenses in general - more diabetes, more arthritis, more heart disease, etc. So the rising obesity rates, while not impacting my health, may impact my wallet.

I can think of several other ways that the obesity epidemic impacts costs and product availability for everyone whether you are overweight or not, but I don't want to send us off on that tangent. It is an interesting topic, though.

I know you said you didn't want to go there, but I can think of a lot of other people who raise insurance rates.

thrill seekers
the elderly
smokers
auto drivers:
-- people who don't wear seatbelts
-- people who don't wear motorcycle helmets (in PA)
-- cellphone users
-- commuters
people who cross the street without looking both ways
baby boomers

:earseek:
 

This could be the topic of a whole other debate. Why? How many of you have seen your health insurance premiums rise steadily in recent years? There are many reasons to explain rising costs, but a big one is increasing utilization of health care resources. And there is good data to support the fact that obese patients have higher medical expenses in general - more diabetes, more arthritis, more heart disease, etc. So the rising obesity rates, while not impacting my health, may impact my wallet.

I can think of several other ways that the obesity epidemic impacts costs and product availability for everyone whether you are overweight or not, but I don't want to send us off on that tangent. It is an interesting topic, though.
No, please do. I was going to trim down what I quoted, but couldn't find anything there not worth repeating. As much as I'm on a crusade to help others as others had helped me, I'm also a fiscal conservative, concerned about my tax burden.

I know you said you didn't want to go there, but I can think of a lot of other people who raise insurance rates.
Of course, but how do the numbers compare? How many of those other types of people are there compared to how many obese people? How much does their condition-related health care cost, as compared to obesity-related health care?

Thrill seekers are an interesting group. Seems to me they either cost a little bit here and there, a broken toe, a dislocated shoulder -- or they die: Cost of health care: $0. :rotfl2:

Just kidding!

Smokers, by the way, don't belong on that list, IMHO. I believe that similar concerns with respect to impact on health care costs stem from smoking as from obesity, and I'd be hard pressed to definitely say which one is more costly than the other.
 
There is no way my weight is causing your insurance premiums to go up. My trips to the allergist maybe, but those are problems that are in no way weight related.
 
The impact of obesity is progressive and degenerative, so the costs that Steve were referring to are costs that will be incurred in the future. Even though I'm not obese now, my 30 years of obesity will come back to haunt me, and cost society if I become indigent, because the damage was done, and I could end up in a wheelchair as a result.
 
life expectancy increases so more people will be living longer, needing more medication covered by prescriptions, and thus more people will be seeing Dr's and utilizing health care services. Not just the fat people.
 
disneysteve said:
This could be the topic of a whole other debate. Why? How many of you have seen your health insurance premiums rise steadily in recent years? There are many reasons to explain rising costs, but a big one is increasing utilization of health care resources. And there is good data to support the fact that obese patients have higher medical expenses in general - more diabetes, more arthritis, more heart disease, etc. So the rising obesity rates, while not impacting my health, may impact my wallet.

I can think of several other ways that the obesity epidemic impacts costs and product availability for everyone whether you are overweight or not, but I don't want to send us off on that tangent. It is an interesting topic, though.


I don't buy that arguement anymore than I buy the argument that people reusing their refillable mugs drives up the cost for soda for eveyone.
 
Crankyshank said:
life expectancy increases so more people will be living longer, needing more medication covered by prescriptions, and thus more people will be seeing Dr's and utilizing health care services. Not just the fat people.
That's a good point: Longevity also increases the chances one will become a drain on society's resources. I wonder if anyone's done a projection that compares the two scenarios.
 
Crankyshank said:
life expectancy increases so more people will be living longer, needing more medication covered by prescriptions, and thus more people will be seeing Dr's and utilizing health care services. Not just the fat people.

Actually, obese people might be saving them money if you think about it! I read somewhere in this thead that we'd probably all die before we're 70 (I'm seriously stretching what was said... we need a tongue in cheek smiley), so they'll only have to take care of all the thin and "fit" elderly!
 
chobie said:
I don't buy that arguement anymore than I buy the argument that people reusing their refillable mugs drives up the cost for soda for eveyone.


More soda used = higher demand

Higher demand, but same profit = need for higher prices ;)
 
I'm coming late to the party here, but I'd really like to jump in, because this is a very real issue to me.

I don't see anything wrong with the posting of this anecdote. Doctors are entitled to shop talk like anyone else. The information was general enough that it was just like reading a case study in a journal.

I never envied my doctor having to do the "fat talk". Unlike many of my counterparts, who have shied away from medical care, I see my GP for an annual physical and for other visits throughout the year. Luckily I have a good GP, and the "fat talk" only comes up annually unless I'm visiting her for a reason that has something specifc to do with my weight or metabolism. I do know folks who have doctors who address their weight at every visit--even if it's for an ear infection. In my opinion the only thing that accomplishes is to make them less likely to seek medical care.

With that being said, I appreciate my doctor's willingess to do the "fat talk", awkward as it usually is. In fact, I would consider her derelict in her duties if she didn't address my weight as part of a comprehensive annual exam. My weight, and anyone's really, is a health issue. She usually starts by asking if my weight has fluctuated at all over the past year. Then she reviews my BMI and other test results and asks me about my diet/exercise habits and how I'm managing my weight. She reminds me of the various treatment options--nutritionists, perscription medications, weight loss programs, and wraps up by saying she's available to discuss the issue again at any time. I really appreciate her approach--I find it to be helpful, respectful, and non-judgemental.

I am not at all surprised at the idea that someone could be eating that poorly and think nothing of it. I used to work with a girl who would eat a Dunkin Donuts bran muffin every morning because "bran is OK". I went to lunch with a guy just last month who ate a salad topped with cheese, bacon, fried chicken, and french dressing because salads are "light" and "healthy". There is a lot of ignorance and a lot of denial. No one wants to be told that they can't have what they want.

For others, the truth about their weight is just too painful and the problem seems too big. To achieve a healthy BMI, I still to lose over 150 pounds, but I just can't face thinking about it that way. It seems like Everest. I do much better when I think of it in smaller chunks, which is why you'll see my ticker below shows a 30 pound goal. Perhaps an effective way to address those people who seem so clueless is to just focus on one tiny goal at a time. Instead of completely correcting their weight problem, suggest 5 or 10 pounds. Instead of trying to overhaul their entire day of eating patterns, try just for breakfast. A small measure of success is empowering and confidence-building.

I think I understand why I'm overweight, and I'm doing the best I can to live a healthier lifestyle, though it is a stuggle. Like anyone, my overweight can be attributed to many factors, but I firmly believe the first and most important is the fact that I have made poor lifestyle choices. When you eat 5,000 calories a day and only walk from your desk to the cafeteria, there's only really one outcome. I can see where an upbringing in a "fat" culture, both in my family and in the US in general have had an effect, and I have PCOS, which makes managing my weight a challenge, but in the end the food did not force its way into my mouth. I put it there and I take responsibility for that.

I'm not sure how much I believe that there are certain people who are just "meant to be fat". I was struck by an early poster's description of kids at a birthday party because I recognized myself. I was that kid. At age 6 I was jockeying for position to be as close as possible to the cake. Nothing was more important to me. By age 8 I learned how to get extra food and hide it from people, and eat it in secret. I guess I can agree that there are people who have an altered relationship with food--I certainly feel I'm one of them. I don't know first hand, but by my best guess my relationship with food is not unlike an addict's relationship with alcohol. But I can't accept the idea that I'm destined to be like this always, and that there's nothing I can do about it. I still think personal choices are 80-90% of the battle.
 
Side note re: the cost of eating well.

I made a fairly drastic lifestyle change about 10 weeks ago, and a few weeks ago I thought I noticed that I was spending less at the grocery store.

Since I seldom clean out my purse I was able to dig out my receipts for the last few months. Before things changed I was spending about $110 per week at the grocery store. For the last 8 weeks the average has been around $70. It's been a noticable savings.

I simply don't eat as much food--I've been working on the same box of Raisin Bran for a month now. Also, I'm not buying expensive, heavily marketed packaged foods. I rarely venture into the aisles in the store anymore.

Last week I bought hugely overpriced Weight Watchers english muffins, the more expensive organic yogurt, and about 10 pounds of fruit, and the bill was still under $70.
 
I think there is simply an amazing amount of ignorance about how many calories are packed into foods that people do not consider to be "bad" choices. I have a sil who is quite large, and I try not to be judgmental, but she is teaching her children the worst eating habits imaginable. They will not know how to make good food choices, and the cycle will be perpetuated. Their portions are enormous -- I saw my 9 yo nephew devour 3 eggs, 2 pieces of white toast with apple jelly & butter, 3 sausage links, several strips of bacon and fruit at breakfast a few weeks ago. He washed that down with 2 glasses of Oj and a glass of milk. (He wasn't allowed to have the oj until he drained the milk glass.) My DH must have looked aghast bc she commented that he was a "growing boy" (my all time favorite rationalization) and that after all, he had milk and fruit so it was a good breakfast. He topped off the breakfast about an hour later with a snack of 2 donuts, which he was not allowed to have until, you guessed it, he drank some more milk. My by calculation, his beverages alone "cost" him 400 calories. The bread and eggs add another approx. 420. The donuts and milk add another 350. So before the kid is out the door, he has consumed a minimum of 1500 calories, if you add the sausage, bacon, butter and jelly. I believe that a 9 yo boy is supposed to eat about 2000 calories per day. Now how is this kid ever going to learn to eat healthfully when mom is praising him for having eaten such a good breakfast!?

I understand that food is fun. I LOVE food. But at the end of the day, it's really just sustenance. And if you consume more than the minimum it takes to sustain you, you get fat. There is no good food or bad food, there is only a balance that only you can find that keeps you at a healthy weight.
 
Marseeya said:
I know you said you didn't want to go there, but I can think of a lot of other people who raise insurance rates.
Absolutely. I agree with you 100%. I wasn't at all trying to say that obesity is the only cause. I was just responding to the earlier comment that people being obese doesn't have any impact on those who aren't.
 
bicker said:
As much as I'm on a crusade to help others as others had helped me, I'm also a fiscal conservative, concerned about my tax burden.

You in a nutshell. :teeth:

I have maybe a stupid question - are the health problems actually caused by obesity, or are they caused by the daily diet that leads to the obesity?

I'm not in my healthy weight range right now. Having been there, relatively recently, I can say with assurance that I was indeed healthier then than I am now. The charts don't lie. They're reflections of our best research on what is a very complicated subject. In my weight-loss support group, we helped each other fight the obstacles to getting fit, rather than fighting the prospect of getting fit.

It's the low side of my healthy range that bothers me, which according to the BMI calculator is (at 5'7") between 118 and 159. I'm just guessing, but it's a good guess that I can gain or lose 20 pounds and still be in normal range per BMI. I just can't ever see myself at 118lbs. Would never want to be there. Around 130 people start asking me if I'm feeling OK. Whereas at 159 I could probably still be comfortable in my own skin. So this must be where genetics figures in, or your frame size, age, or whatever....I have trouble wrapping my brain around that low weight being somehow better than 5 or 10 extra pounds.
 
Teejay32 said:
I have maybe a stupid question - are the health problems actually caused by obesity, or are they caused by the daily diet that leads to the obesity?
Actually, I think that's a very interesting question. There are plenty of people who can eat pretty much whatever they want and not gain weight. However, that fact doesn't prevent them from developing diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc. And those conditions often improve when they change their diets, even if their weight stays about the same. So even though they aren't obese, their diet is still a factor in their condition.

So it might be reasonable to suggest that it isn't simply the presence of obesity that causes the diseases. It is the high calorie diet and lack of exercise that led to the obesity that causes the diseases. Of course, for most people, that high calorie diet and lack of exercise also leads to obesity.

I think this ties in to a thread we had here some time ago asking if obesity is a disease. That was another interesting thead as I recall.
 
After my 3rd kid I was the largest I have ever been. And I decided that that was not who I wanted to be. So I worked hard and am now in better shape than I was before all my children. But, it's a daily challenge.

I exercise 5 times a week [sometimes 4 sometimes 6] including weights 2-3 times per week. Eat as much non-processed food as possible [fruits, veggies, lean protein, whole grains]. I do have occasional snacks and alcohol but not every day and not as much as I could if I let myself. Easy tip, shop mainly in the perimeter of the grocery store, most of the processed stuff is in the aisles.

Every day, every meal, you make a choice. Am I a fit person? Yes? So, I get up at 5 and work out. Or, would I rather sleep in and not be a fit person today? Am I a healthy person? Good. Enjoy a nice big salad with chicken for dinner. Or, am I not going to be healthy and just have a greasy cheeseburger with fries instead? Am I stressed? Should I eat that bag of oreos or should I call a friend or journal or walk?

It's that hard and that simple all rolled into one.

If it was easy, the supermodels and movie stars would be out of work!
I wish everyone struggling continued success.
Trish
 
As I was there getting my tall Americano with a little non-fat foam on top [switched from non-fat Lattes to save 100 calories, now it's maybe 20], I was chatting with the gal there about how many calories are in the drinks. Some of the frappucinos are HIGHER in FAT and CALORIES than a Big Mac!!!! She said that she sees regulars come in and get 2 throughout the same day! Those 2 drinks are more than double the calories & fat you need for a WHOLE day. It's just crazy. And I'm sure these same people can't figure out why they can't lose weight!
Trish
 


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