How Can Parents Be So Clueless?

[PrincessTiffany]

I HAVE read most of the posts and while there are things that I do not personally agree with, that doesn't make the poster as horrible person. I bet I wouldn't agree with some of the things YOU do with your child... does that make you a horrible person? No, it makes our opinions different.

Honestly it sort of freaks me out that you are on such a mission against that poster. It's bordering on personal attacks. I really think you need to step back and just stop. Not agreeing with someone is cool and all... but this seems to have become more of a mission.

I love how people get on here and post all about their personal lives and their personal choices, parenting or otherwise, but we aren't supposed to get "personal" and if we comment or think they are doing something wrong, it's a "personal attack." If you don't want someone talking about, critiquing, critizing or attacking your personal choices, don't post them on a public message board. It doesn't take being here on the Dis too long to figure that out. If she can continue to share/advocate for her parenting choices, I can certainly continue to criticize them. And I'm not "on a mission." You people are the ones that keep bringing it up over and over and over and I'm responding to YOU.

And I totally resent you insinuating that I'm freaky. That sounds like a personal attack. I may have to report you . . . .

 

[LilyWDW]

I love how people get on here and post all about their personal lives and their personal choices, parenting or otherwise, but we aren't supposed to get "personal" and if we comment or think they are doing something wrong, it's a "personal attack." If you don't want someone talking about, critiquing, critizing or attacking your personal choices, don't post them on a public message board. It doesn't take being here on the Dis too long to figure that out. If she can continue to share/advocate for her parenting choices, I can certainly continue to criticize them. And I'm not "on a mission." You people are the ones that keep bringing it up over and over and over and I'm responding to YOU.

And I totally resent you insinuating that I'm freaky. That sounds like a personal attack. I may have to report you . . . .

I said it freaks ME out that you are so insistent against the poster. I never said YOU were freaky. That is reading something that is in my comment that was not there.

And I will stand by what I said. It is only thing to disagree with the poster, but this, to me, seems beyond that. You are asking other people to judge another due to what you personally think about them. You are going on and on trying to show that another poster is "bad". That is beyond simply disagreeing with someone and beyond the scope of this thread.

Since it IS beyond the scope of this thread, I will no longer comment on it after this post.

 

[Colleen27]

There was no reason to call the cops on someone just because YOU disagree with their parenting choices. A baby strapped into an infant seat in a hot car on a 90 degree day, yes they are in immanent danger, and you should try to help. A 5 year old in a car with a dog is not. Child kidnapping by stranger are incredibly rare. That child could have sat in that car for hours and not had any harm come to her. You may perceive that children that age are not capable of being left alone but the majority of the world does not agree with you. Children that age in many other cultures are on their own and caring for younger siblings. It's only in America that we seem to have such a low expectation for our children that we think they are unable to sit by themselves for 30 minutes! You may not agree with her parenting, but she probably doesn't agree with yours either!

I'm usually a pretty permissive parent and I've taken my share of flames on these boards because of it. But I'd still have alerted the police in this situation, for one simple reason - the car was running. That's too attractive both to potential thieves and to an unsupervised child who might want to check out how things work up front and is plenty old enough to get out of his/her carseat to do so. Add in the dog who might, if it is anything like mine, get excited enough to knock the car into gear if someone walks too close to the car, and it is a situation with a real potential for harm. A 5yo in a non-running vehicle, I'd agree that it is a difference in parenting styles and not worthy of police involvement, but the fact that the car was running changes my reaction entirely.

 

[Colleen27]

This happened to me at Publix. a lady left her 8-10yo (found out 10yo) and an infant in tha car when she went in. I'd say she was there 5-10 minutes, and isn't in a spot visible from the front door. I called the cops, had choice words for the clueless lady.

The cops tried to contact me, but we played voicemail tag and I don't know what ever happened.

Now that, to me, is ridiculous. A 10yo is perfectly capable of keeping an eye on a younger sibling for 5-10min, especially when the younger child is safely buckled into a carseat, and parents who allow that shouldn't be a matter for law enforcement. My oldest and youngest are 10 years apart and he has always happily stepped up to watch her if I was running in to pay for gas to get diapers, and around the house if I wanted to shower or do laundry without waiting for DH to get home.

 

[Colleen27]

Has anyone noticed that Disney rules allow children age 7 and up to be unattended in the parks? (not that I agree with this)

Should we all get on Disney's case?

Have you never seen one of those threads? Suggest that you might let your teenager - not young child, but TEEN - explore the parks without an adult and you'll get an earful from the folks who see a pervert lurking in every queue and restroom stall.

 

[pacrosby]

All states have some form of child endangerment laws (even MA) which can and are interpreted by law enforcement as they deem appropriate. What part of that don't you get?

As long as you are willing to admit that you are indeed one of those self-absorbed people who are not willing to take time out of your daily routine to look out for the welfare of a child....... There is not much left to say.

Nice try, though.

Where did I say that I would not take the time out of my daily routine to look out for the welfare of a child???? Nice try

If I was truly concerned about the child's safety I would hang around alittle bit. I would do what I could to assess the situation myself. Does the child seem frightened? Is he/she crying? Or is he/she reading a book? Watching a movie on his portable dvd player? Or playing one of those hand held games? Did I go into the store 30 minutes ago and come out only to see the child still sitting there? Where exactly are we? In a large city pkg lot or a small lot adjacent to a local store in a smaller community? There are a lot of questions to be asked before I'd consider calling the police.

You are the one who is not really interested in the safety of the child. You are only interested in teaching someone a lesson.


and fwiw: MA has laws that forbid parents from leaving younger children in the car unattended. You don't think they would simply up the age if they thought it qualified as 'child endangerment'? Massachusetts? hahahahahahaha Nice try though.


ETA: Where does it stop by the way? Do you call the police when you see a young child playing unattended in their driveway or yard? Do you call the police when you see two young children walking unaccompanied to the corner store? What about in the morning...on the way to school? Lots of schools require very young children to walk to school if they are less than a mile or two from school? Are you going to call the police when you see those little children walking unattended? If not...why not? Aren't they in danger too? Would seem to me that they are in fact in much greater danger than if sitting alone in a locked car unattended for 10-15 minutes while mom does a quick errand? Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Wadecool]

Where did I say that I would not take the time out of my daily routine to look out for the welfare of a child???? Nice try

If I was truly concerned about the child's safety I would hang around alittle bit. I would do what I could to assess the situation myself. Does the child seem frightened? Is he/she crying? Or is he/she reading a book? Watching a movie on his portable dvd player? Or playing one of those hand held games? Did I go into the store 30 minutes ago and come out only to see the child still sitting there? Where exactly are we? In a large city pkg lot or a small lot adjacent to a local store in a smaller community? There are a lot of questions to be asked before I'd consider calling the police.

You are the one who is not really interested in the safety of the child. You are only interested in teaching someone a lesson.

and fwiw: MA has laws that forbid parents from leaving younger children in the car unattended. You don't think they would simply up the age if they thought it qualified as 'child endangerment'? Massachusetts? hahahahahahaha Nice try though.

Well, here's how you referred to those of us who would contact the authorities on behalf of a child left in an unattended vehicle, and I quote: "nothing more than a holier-than-thou busy body who needs to spend more time worrying about their own life than the lives of others." With that statement, by default you made it clear that you would not take the time out of your own life to get involved in the life of someone else. Sorry, as much as you'd like to, you can't put that genie back into the bottle now.

As to your second paragraph: it is not my job to conduct an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the why, how, and how long the child has been left alone in the car. That would be the job of the responding police officers, and after contacting them, I'll let them take it from there.

You are apparently only interested in the well being of the irresponsible parent who would leave their child alone in an unattended vehicle.

Regarding your fwiw: those child endangerment laws are ultimately going to be interpreted by responding law enforcement, not you or I. My responsibility as a citizen is to contact the police in that situation and let them make that decision. Maybe the responding officers will decide to pursue charges, and maybe they won't. However, as much as you would like it to be so, you don't get to make those decisions. Nice try though.

 

[julm26]

I came out of the grocery store today and parked in front of my car was a high end car (not that it really matters what kind of car it was) RUNNING, wipers going, with a little girl and a small dog in the front seat. I was stunned. As luck would have it there was a local police cruiser in the parking lot. He approached the girl, found out her name, age, 5, and the fact that her mother was in the store. So we waited and waited. Roughly 15-20 minutes later out walks the mother. She wasn't even concerned that the police were at her car. To make a long story short, I had some not so kind words for her. She in turn told me to mind my own business numerous times, waving her hand in my face and so on. I guess I was a little stunned. I am sure nothing will happen to her, but the woman really needs some parenting tips.

To top it off, also today in a separate town, a car was stolen with a sleeping child in it. Apparently, the carjacker had second thoughts because that child is fine.

Okay, let me have it. Should I have gone on my merry way without contacting the police? Who else would have stuck their nose in the situation?
Any men out there who would have done the same?

I would have done exactly what you did...I have a big mouth and I'm forever shocked by the things I see other parents doing. I work in mental health, so I could tell you story after story. One time in Walmart (doesn't surprise you does it) there was a woman behind my husband in line, she began to slap her toddler over and over again becuz he was touching things.. My husband (who is always quiet and kind- unlike me) finally had enough and turned around and told the woman that if she touched her kid again he was gonna lay her out on the floor. She started screaming for security, who came and had been watching her on camera and took her away. They actually thanked my husband for stepping up and not turning a blind eye to the situation.

The trouble nowadays is that we all turn a blind eye, we ignore the woman screaming at her child, turn away when we see them hit their child, or walk away when we see children left alone in a car. Then those same children end up seeing me, with years of emotional scars and sad memories of childhood.

I say you did the right thing.

 

[Scarlett81]

Everyone scroll to the top of this page....
See where it says "Disney for Families"...?
Thats what this forum area is for.
Lets let this die.
And talk more about "Disney for Families" since this debate has beaten to death.

 

[lan3]

I think people should intervene if they feel something is dangerous to a child. I would never leave my child in my car, I don't leave my GPS on the seat so it doesn't get stolen! I have triplets, one with autism and it is so annoying and difficult to bring the three of them in especially when they are sick but I always do for their safety. I don't expect other people to do everything that I do but I think of I saw a kids in a running car that is beyond different parenting styles. A running car is an invitation to thieves. Also, any kid can get curious. Kids do stupid things all the time. That is how they learn as they grow up.

There is one other thing that I constantly see on this board that I think is worth mentioning. I always see on this board that violent crime rates are going down. They have gone down since the 90s but are up from the 60s and 70s. I am always curious about why that means people should worry less about crime. Couldn't it be very possible that the crime rates have been going down because people are more vigilant. There is less crime because people jog in pairs and monitor their kids more closely than before? I don't see how a decrease in violent crime and a rise in "helicopter parenting" as people on this board call it couldn't be related.

 

[pacrosby]

Well, here's how you referred to those of us who would contact the authorities on behalf of a child left in an unattended vehicle, and I quote: "nothing more than a holier-than-thou busy body who needs to spend more time worrying about their own life than the lives of others." With that statement, by default you made it clear that you would not take the time out of your own life to get involved in the life of someone else. Sorry, as much as you'd like to, you can't put that genie back into the bottle now.

As to your second paragraph: it is not my job to conduct an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the why, how, and how long the child has been left alone in the car. That would be the job of the responding police officers, and after contacting them, I'll let them take it from there.

You are apparently only interested in the well being of the irresponsible parent who would leave their child alone in an unattended vehicle.

Regarding your fwiw: those child endangerment laws are ultimately going to be interpreted by responding law enforcement, not you or I. My responsibility as a citizen is to contact the police in that situation and let them make that decision. Maybe the responding officers will decide to pursue charges, and maybe they won't. However, as much as you would like it to be so, you don't get to make those decisions. Nice try though.

It's generally unwise to quote out of context. That statement was made at the end of a much longer post and did not suggest that it was never reasonable to be concerned or even to call the police for that matter (see page 6, post #81 for reference). I know what I said and I know what I meant...... and if you really read the whole post, you do too.

And please allow me to correct you..... I am indeed the one interested in the well-being of the child. You've said it yourself....your primary concern lies in punishing what you deem to be an irresponsible parent.

I noticed you didn't comment on the child playing unattended in their driveway/yard; the unattended children walking to the store; the unattended children walking to school. Aren't their parents 'irresponsible' as well? Who's looking out for their safety? And why exactly is sitting in a locked car for 10=15 minutes any less safe?

 

[Wadecool]

It's generally unwise to quote out of context. That statement was made at the end of a much longer post and did not suggest that it was never reasonable to be concerned or even to call the police for that matter (see page 6, post #81 for reference). I know what I said and I know what I meant...... and if you really read the whole post, you do too.

And please allow me to correct you..... I am indeed the one interested in the well-being of the child. You've said it yourself....your primary concern lies in punishing what you deem to be an irresponsible parent.

I noticed you didn't comment on the child playing unattended in their driveway/yard; the unattended children walking to the store; the unattended children walking to school. Aren't their parents 'irresponsible' as well? Who's looking out for their safety? And why exactly is sitting in a locked car for 10=15 minutes any less safe?

You may know what you meant, but the rest of us here cannot read your mind and can only go by what you actually say. I have no doubt that I was not the only one to take the quoted statement that way. But feel free to backpedal to your heart's content.

Please allow me to correct you (since you seem unable to do so on your own). You are indeed the one who is most interested in protecting the irresponsible parent, as exhibited by your outrage at those of us who would dare alert the authorities. My primary concern is for the well being of the child left alone in an unattended vehicle.

Excellent observation that I didn't address your irrelevant comparisons. The reason why I did avoid them is because they have nothing to do with the situation this entire thread is based upon. See, this entire thread is based upon the scenario of a child being left alone in a vehicle, nothing else. Here's a hint, those irrelevant comparisons give away the fact that your argument is crumbling... But feel free to continue with that.

 

[pacrosby]

You may know what you meant, but the rest of us here cannot read your mind and can only go by what you actually say here. I have no doubt that I was not the only one to take the quoted statement that way. But feel free to backpedal to your heart's content.

Who's backpedaling? I listed the reference to the post. Please don't make the mistake of lumping eveyone else in with you. It didn't require mindreading to understand what I meant as I clearly stated that I was referring to someone who felt that ANY child left unattended in ANYwhere for ANY length of time for ANY reason" was worth a phone call to the police. Nice try though.

Excellent observation that I didn't address your irrelevant comparisons. The reason why I did avoid them is because they have nothing to do with the situation this entire thread is based upon. See, this entire thread is based upon the scenario of a child being left alone in a vehicle, nothing else. Here's a hint, those irrelevant comparisons give away the fact that your argument is crumbling... But feel free to continue with that.

One absolutely has to do with the other. Child safety is child safety. You need to be consistent here.

Well, strike that. I guess you only have to be consistent if the concern is truly about child safety. And we've already revealed that it's not.

Play on

 

[pacrosby]

oops forgot one...

Please allow me to correct you (since you seem unable to do so on your own). You are indeed the one who is most interested in protecting the irresponsible parent, as exhibited by your outrage at those of us who would dare alert the authorities. My primary concern is for the well being of the child left alone in an unattended vehicle.

Again, but even many states agree that it is not always irresponsible to leave an elementary school aged child alone in a car. It depends on a myriad of factors. THAT is the point. I am willing to take the time to see if the parent is truly being irresponsible before picking up the telephone to call the police. You are not because you don't really care if the child is truly at risk. You are only upset that the parent had the audacity to believe it was ok to leave their child at all....regardless of the circumstances. THAT is what makes someone a busy body. Plain and simple.


ETA: and if you insist on coming back with "even 10 minutes/5 minutes/3 minutes is too long" I will unfortunately be forced to pull out those same examples of unattended young children that we see everyday once again. If you are truly concerned that an elementary school aged child is unsafe in a locked car for a brief period of time than you must be concerned about them being left unattended in other circumstances as well. And if you would intervene in the parking lot, than you should intervene elsewhere. If you would not, well then it becomes obvious that it's not really the safety of the child that you are truly concerned about. And refusing to extend the disucssion doesn't help your case. You can deny it all you want but...if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, I'm sorry but it is indeed a duck.

 

[Wadecool]

Who's backpedaling? I listed the reference to the post. Please don't make the mistake of lumping eveyone else in with you. It didn't require mindreading to understand what I meant as I clearly stated that I was referring to someone who felt that ANY child left unattended in ANYwhere for ANY length of time for ANY reason" was worth a phone call to the police. Nice try though.





One absolutely has to do with the other. Child safety is child safety. You need to be consistent here.

Well, strike that. I guess you only have to be consistent if the concern is truly about child safety. And we've already revealed that it's not.

Play on

Again, this particular thread is about a child being left alone in a vehicle, nothing else. If you want to start a new thread about those other scenarios you seem so desperate to debate, feel free to do so. But that would be the only way those scenarios will be relevant. Keep trying though... It's getting entertaining at this point.

You have not revealed anything, other than you apparent willingness to go to great lengths to defend an irresponsible parent.

At this point, you are only succeeding in eroding your position, so I'll leave you to it. Play on

 

[Wadecool]

oops forgot one...



Oh but once again you would be wrong.

It is not always irresponsible to leave a child alone unattended for a brief period of time. THAT is the point. I'm willing to take the time to see if the parent is truly being irresponsible before picking up the telephone to call the police. You are not because you don't care if the child is truly at risk. You are only upset that the parent had the audacity to believe it was ok to leave their child at all....regardless of the circumstances. THAT is what makes someone a busy body. Plain and simply.

ETA: and if you insist on coming back with "even 3 minutes is too long" I will be forced to pull out the examples of unattended young children that we see everyday once again. If you are concerned about child safety you would be concerned about it across the board. If you are not, well then it becomes obvious that it's not the safety of the child that you are truly concerned about.

And all of that is your opinion. However flawed it may be, you are certainly entitled to it, but that's all it is. I care about the child in question because I am willing to alert the authorities and let them handle it from there. I am certain that the local law enforcement officers have investigative skills that far exceed those of you or I, therefore I would let them handle it. Don't want to have the police called on you for leaving your child alone in the car while you do some shopping? Don't leave your child alone in the car. Plain and simple.

I have no doubt you will pull those other irrelevant scenarios out again and again because you seem desperate at this point. Your continual refusal to stick to the scenario this entire thread is based upon and continually trying to divert the discussion is not doing your argument any good when you do, but go ahead. I'm interested to see how many more times you can call a duck a doorknob. Since you're so excited to discuss all the other scenarios you've listed, I'll be anxiously awaiting new threads you post to discuss them.

 

[pacrosby]

Again, this particular thread is about a child being left alone in a vehicle, nothing else. If you want to start a new thread about those other scenarios you seem so desperate to debate, feel free to do so. But that would be the only way those scenarios will be relevant. Keep trying though... It's getting entertaining at this point.

You have not revealed anything, other than you apparent willingness to go to great lengths to defend an irresponsible parent.

At this point, you are only succeeding in eroding your position, so I'll leave you to it. Play on

Oh, to the contrary...I have done exactly what I had sought out to do in the first place. Thank you for making it so easy

 

[Wadecool]

Oh, to the contrary...I have done exactly what I had sought out to do in the first place. Thank you for making it so easy

It is true that you have certainly made an impression. Unfortunately, it is most likely far from what you had intended. (Or maybe it was )

Play on.

 

[StitchBuddy]

By 5 a child should be able to navigate a parking lot and know to look out for cars. Personally I would not leave the car running, but I'm not going to condemn someone who did. I would be more worried about the dog jumping around and knocking the car into gear, again a 5 year old should know better.

Do you know many 5 year olds??? Seriously, they don't have the capability to go into a busy parking lot and walk around independently. For one thing, there are lots of trucks and SUV's that would never see them if they were to walk behind them while backing out of a parking space. I think the OP was correct in calling the police. Why would someone think it is okay to leave a child in a car for 30 minutes when it isn't legal to leave them home alone at that age. Please use some common sense!! I hope the women was at least ticketed!!

 

[carseatmommy]

I didn't read all 10 pages...only 3 or 4, but here's my thought.

What if this was a child like my nearly 7 yr old neice? Now, I know my brother and SIL would never leave her alone---she has epilepsy and autism. But, you wouldn't know that just looking at her sitting in her carseat. How do you know which children are neuro-typical vs having an array of special needs?

I agree that the OP should have left the talking to the police.