How 'bout that Gentrification?

[NotUrsula]

Spike Lee put his foot in his (arguably potty-) mouth Tuesday night when he went on a rant against gentrification in Brooklyn and the Bronx. (I have to agree somewhat about the Columbus-Syndrome remark, though -- civilization doesn't "discover" a place if it has already been inhabited for time out of memory.)

This follows demonstrations in the Bay Area around the so-called "Google Buses" that take wealthy residents who are employed in Silicon Vally back and forth to work (and which were using the city bus lanes and but stops without contributing to the cost of their upkeep.) Locsl working-class San Franciscans are angry that these folks are driving up rents in their neighborhoods when they don't work anywhere nearby.

Lee's remarks were especially ironic because he has been a landlord for quite a while now in Brooklyn, and has flipped a number of properties for profit. He is looking at it primarily from a racial POV, (which isn't surprising, given who he is and how he makes his living), but is there more to this issue than that? Is is really more about class? About culture? (Lee pointed out that his father, a professional Bassist, has been practicing at home for 46 years, but last year, for the first time, new neighbors complained to the police about the noise associated with the music.)

Where I live we had a major influx of folks from a nation in Eastern Europe a couple of decades ago. They have been very entreprenurial, and they have caused a fair bit of gentrification here, though not on a NYC-like scale (they are not so rich that they are driving home prices beyond the reach of the middle class, and most of them actually remain working class.) However, somewhat like what is happening in Brooklyn's Williamsburg (which has been primarily populated by Orthodox Jews since not long after the Civil War), they have a particular culture and religion, and there have been clashes over that (especially their love of building backyard smokehouses used to make sausage.)

So ... is gentrification as bad as it is good? Is it good? Is it bad? Where does it go wrong? What makes for a good gentrification situation, if such a thing exists?

Come on ... Discuss!

 

[Robinrs]

Gentrification is on steroids here in Atlanta, has been since the 90s..

My thoughts?... I'll get banned.

 

[NotUrsula]

LOL, you won't get banned if you are careful about your words. That's why Lee is having to explain himself so much; he chose to use a lot of profanity when he originally stated his opinion.

As to me, while I think that preserving liveable urban neighborhoods is good and crucially important, and I STRONGLY prefer to live in them, I have to agree with one of the sentiments that he seemed to be expressing. In my experience, the people who think of themselves as urban pioneers often seem to want to use a kind of neutron bomb on the neighborhoods that they move into: they love the buildings themselves, and MAYBE the mature trees, but they tend to wish that every other living thing that was originally there would either go away or change to become more like the new inhabitants -- even if that change has to be forced on them. For instance, they may want bars to become full-service restaurants, because bars stay open late and restaurants don't. Or they may want liquor stores to become bakeries, because bakeries smell nice and are convenient in the mornings, while liquor stores might attract an "undesirable element". They want the funky neighbor lady who makes sculptures out of old factory tools to move her studio someplace else so that they won't have to see the raw materials or smell the works in progress, and they want the car restoration hobbyist to build a garage because working on a car in front of one's house is so déclassée. Above all, they want the neighbor who smokes meat to stop doing it because it causes an odor. (Never mind that the odor is actually quite yummy for many people -- if he isn't going to share it or sell it, then he shouldn't be annoying his neighbors with the smell of that sausage.)

The key, I think, is in holding back the temptation to think that if you have more money than your neighbor, that it follows that you also have better manners or taste than he does. After all, you moved into HIS neighborhood, so it really isn't fair to then turn around and try to alter its character to suit your tastes.

 

[CaliBear]

Gentrification has had a horrible effect on my family. It angers me so much so while I'm intrigued by the topic, I am having trouble putting my thoughts down. If I just type what I'm thinking right now, I will definitely be banned. But watch the King of the Hill episode "Lady and Gentrification". They actually nail some of the issues in a such a short funny episode. I found it to be great stress relief.

 

[Janepod]

All I think of when I hear "gentrification" is the opening scene of Chasing Amy.

 

[Robinrs]

LOL, you won't get banned if you are careful about your words. That's why Lee is having to explain himself so much; he chose to use a lot of profanity when he originally stated his opinion.

Lee and I are from the same part of town, it's not HOW I say it, it's what I really think.

Needless to say I see his point between the expletives.

 

[skylizard]

Gentrification is on steroids here in Atlanta, has been since the 90s..

My thoughts?... I'll get banned.

It's an issue in DC too.
Honestly, I haven't thought about it much so don't really have an opinion either way. Curious to hear what others say.

 

[NotUrsula]

Well, I guess that teaches me to try to start something that will be an interesting discussion, LOL.

I've never been the "gentry" except during one brief period in a neighborhood that had largely been abandoned before it got a tax abatement to be renovated by developers (it was a rental and I left when I got married and bought a house), but I've almost always lived in city neighborhoods, because I don't like the "residential-only" vibe of traditional surburbia.

As I see it, the trend to return to urban living is a very good thing on the face of it; it preserves valuable architectural infrastructure, stabilizes the tax base, and makes more efficient use of living space and civic services. The downside in some cases is that it can dispossess a lot of people if speculation is allowed to run riot, and even sometimes when it isn't.

An odd situation happened near me, in a mostly lower-working-class neighborhood that was largely owner-occupied. Public schools are pretty bad in my district, so as an experiment, a group of educators got together and decided to open a Montessori charter school. The goal was to debunk the idea that it is impossible to close the achievement gap if your student body is uniformly disadvantaged. Because it was necessary for the experiment, an attendance zone was drawn around the school. The first two years the teachers had to knock on doors and troll for students, because religious school attendance is traditional here. By the third year, the consistent test scores were beginning to prove that their theory had traction, and they developed a waiting list. Another building was renovated, classroom space doubled. However, by the fourth year, they noticed that the student body that had been so homogenous when they started out was beginning to fracture along economic lines, and they went looking for why. It turns out that the presence of the high-scoring school was drawing positive attention, and a lot of the childless residents sold out -- to families who were MUCH more prosperous than themselves. The school could no longer continue the experiment because the neighborhood was no longer in the target income range, and they lost grant funding, which in turn forced them to cut programs. I find it an amazing example of the law of unintended consequences.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

You take the good
You take the bad
You take them both
and then you have
the facts of life

Or, as our friend Newton explains, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. There is no good without bad, no pure without evil, no upside without some other downside.

Now, on the plus side, you have rich people moving into what had been poor neighborhoods. So, what becomes of the poor? Well, if they're property owners, they prosper in the sale of their land. If they stay, they benefit from the influx of $$ into their neighborhood. Yes, the culture will change, but those who claim to have "created" the existing culture have supplanted some previous culture. One time many years ago, Spike Lee's ancestors were the "new ones" changing things in the neighborhood. These new people are no better, nor worse than he. And generally speaking, an influx of money and employed residents into a poor neighborhood is a good thing, even if it means a shift in cultures.

Now, having said that the point about the bass playing is a valid one. We have the same thing where I work. Our entire street was once nothing but factories. Because of the factories, land around there is cheap. So, people move into the neighborhood, then complain about factory workers parking in front of their homes. And those factories provide jobs for residents from all over the county.

Or, you have the farms gobbled up and turned into subdivisions. And then the new subdivision dwellers complain about the stench from the hog farms.

So, in the end, if you want to come in and get the lights turned on, the trash picked up, and fatten up property values, go for it - just save some smoked goat for me. BUT, if you want to come in and whine that you don't like the factories or farms that were there first, or the guy who's always worked on his car in the driveway, or the guy who has practiced his bass for 46 years, we don't need you. We don't own the neighborhood, but neither do you.

 

[Schmeck]

It's an old article from an older study but it basically states that Spike's whining is for the birds:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-19-gentrification_x.htm

 

[Colleen27]

So, in the end, if you want to come in and get the lights turned on, the trash picked up, and fatten up property values, go for it - just save some smoked goat for me. BUT, if you want to come in and whine that you don't like the factories or farms that were there first, or the guy who's always worked on his car in the driveway, or the guy who has practiced his bass for 46 years, we don't need you. We don't own the neighborhood, but neither do you.

Yeah, this.

My take is probably a little different because I'm from a place where there's no risk of crowding out the working class the way I've heard described in some other areas - state law limits property tax increases except in years when there is a change of ownership, so rapidly rising property values don't force lower-income residents out of their homes. I think for the most part renewed interest in urban living is a good thing and hope to move back to the city myself as soon as I can (which, sadly, probably won't be until at least 2 of my 3 kids are grown).

But geez, pick a place to live because you want to live there warts and all. Don't move in and start trying to make it just like the place you left but with different scenery! Whether it is moving into a city and complaining about hearing neighbors, traffic, or businesses or moving to the country and complaining about animal sounds/smells and clotheslines, that sort of mismatch indicates a poor choice in surroundings not a community problem to be corrected. I'm in a small town but we get a lot of that - suburbanites move here because they love the "quaint" but then run complaining to the city council when they hear the neighbor's chickens or catch sight of someone's delicates drying in the sun. I just hope they don't reach critical mass to start making changes until we're long gone.

 

[eliza61]

It's an old article from an older study but it basically states that Spike's whining is for the birds:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-19-gentrification_x.htm

sorry schmeck, I love ya but this article is for the birds.

I was born and raised in Harlem. 153rd and riverside drive. and believe me when ole gentrification came to down, all heck broke out.

Here in the nutshell is what happen to my building.

My building was an old prewar building, meaning it was big and had some serious archeticual (sp) designs. huge lobby, winding staircases, iron works molding the works. anyhoo most of the tenants were what we call in NY rent control.
bottom line when the owners of the building found out he could get upwards to 4K a month for units that were now getting 1500 month. well let the shenanigans begin. My apartment 10d was huge, back in the day you had extended family living together. so the apartment I grew up in was 5 bedroom 3 baths etc. Now granted my grandparents lived with me but in NY apartment scene it was big.

long story short, it took us 2 years, organizing a tenant rights association, rallying in public and suing that sucker before he finally conceded that maybe he was breaking the law.

Now if you are an owner you may not be forced to move but if you rent,
gentrification most definitely kicks you out faster than you can sneeze.

Now let's look at 125th street. famous ave, home of the apollo theater. tons of small businesses, minority owned. what happens when starbucks opens up? Very easy, the independant small business guy is gone, what building owner is going to allow him to stay when he can triple the rent and allow a chain to come in?

LOL last time I was visiting family there are now about 4 starbucks on one avenue.

Now I haven't listen to spikes rant, If I can't listen to you for more than 2 minutes without the f-bomb going off, I'm not listening.

 

[Schmeck]

sorry schmeck, I love ya but this article is for the birds.

I was born and raised in Harlem. 153rd and riverside drive. and believe me when ole gentrification came to down, all heck broke out.

Here in the nutshell is what happen to my building.

My building was an old prewar building, meaning it was big and had some serious archeticual (sp) designs. huge lobby, winding staircases, iron works molding the works. anyhoo most of the tenants were what we call in NY rent control.
bottom line when the owners of the building found out he could get upwards to 4K a month for units that were now getting 1500 month. well let the shenanigans begin. My apartment 10d was huge, back in the day you had extended family living together. so the apartment I grew up in was 5 bedroom 3 baths etc. Now granted my grandparents lived with me but in NY apartment scene it was big.

long story short, it took us 2 years, organizing a tenant rights association, rallying in public and suing that sucker before he finally conceded that maybe he was breaking the law.

Now if you are an owner you may not be forced to move but if you rent,
gentrification most definitely kicks you out faster than you can sneeze.

Now let's look at 125th street. famous ave, home of the apollo theater. tons of small businesses, minority owned. what happens when starbucks opens up? Very easy, the independant small business guy is gone, what building owner is going to allow him to stay when he can triple the rent and allow a chain to come in?

LOL last time I was visiting family there are now about 4 starbucks on one avenue.

Now I haven't listen to spikes rant, If I can't listen to you for more than 2 minutes without the f-bomb going off, I'm not listening.

Not quite following what happened in your above story - were you forced to move out because you couldn't pay rent on your large apartment once the landlord saw that other similar properties were increasing rent, or were you in an excessively large apartment for rent control?

The studies that went with that article are probably pre-Starbucks era, but it was clearly stated that the study showed that gentrification changed the demographics only 0.5% more than nongentrification over time. Sorry you were in the 0.5%.

 

[Janepod]

much. Housing values dropped and are nowhere near what they should be. Spike Lee is a hypocrite. He doesn't even live in his old neighborhood. I've heard he has a place on the upper east side of Manhattan.

What, this old thing? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ouse-owned-succession-celebrated-artists.html

 

[eliza61]

Not quite following what happened in your above story - were you forced to move out because you couldn't pay rent on your large apartment once the landlord saw that other similar properties were increasing rent, or were you in an excessively large apartment for rent control?

The studies that went with that article are probably pre-Starbucks era, but it was clearly stated that the study showed that gentrification changed the demographics only 0.5% more than nongentrification over time. Sorry you were in the 0.5%.

Yes, we would have been forced out along with everyone else, no way could the tenants afford a exponential increase in rent. we just happened to have a few lawyers in the bunch who organized my building (I should say I was a kid so the parents were the driving force) and about 10 other buildings who's owners were doing the same thing. Landlords were increasing rent 200, 300% in the middle of leases. Then when they saw it wasn't going to be that easy, they started doing things like turning off the water (saying pipes were breaking), turning off the elevator.

after a 2 year battle in court, the tenant association finally won and a few regulations were put into effect. stuff like a maximum on how much rent can go up, tenants having right of first refusal.

I'm not a spike lee fan at all but gentrification definitely does hurt many poor especially if they are not property owners.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Yes, we would have been forced out along with everyone else, no way could the tenants afford a exponential increase in rent. we just happened to have a few lawyers in the bunch who organized my building (I should say I was a kid so the parents were the driving force) and about 10 other buildings who's owners were doing the same thing. Landlords were increasing rent 200, 300% in the middle of leases. Then when they saw it wasn't going to be that easy, they started doing things like turning off the water (saying pipes were breaking), turning off the elevator.

after a 2 year battle in court, the tenant association finally won and a few regulations were put into effect. stuff like a maximum on how much rent can go up, tenants having right of first refusal.

I'm not a spike lee fan at all but gentrification definitely does hurt many poor especially if they are not property owners.

No such thing as rent control here. If a building owner wants to triple the rent, nothing to stop him.

Now, the plus side of that is that with the market dictating price, there would never be such a dramatic increase. It would go up a little at a time because otherwise he'd never be able to keep tenants.

 

[NotUrsula]

That's the thing; he doesn't live in his old neighborhood, but he did move to Harlem right after he had his first big hit. He made a VERY handsome profit on the house that he bought in 1990 for $400K and sold a few yrs.later for at least $1M. He is one of the guys who let the Barbarians in. I guess he can argue that he didn't realize how they were going to act when they got there, but I don't buy that. Old money very seldom flies far from the nest, but new money does. New money is also not renowned for its respect for old tradition.

NYC is kind of a special category because of rent control. (Rent control, for those not familiar, was a law passed 1943 that restricted applicable rent increases for residents of existing buildings in NYC. The terms kept increases well below inflation and market value, and families who lived in those buildings were very careful to never let the lease expire or the apartment become vacant, because if that happened the landlord could raise the rent to market rates for the new tenants. Leases were willed down through families to preserve the grandfathered requirements. The laws were updated in 1971 and changed to a system that is called rent-stabilized, and that created a new group of grandfathered buildings/tenants whose rent stayed below new market rates, though the terms were not as good as in pre-war buildings. Eliza will say that my explanation is overly simplistic (and it absolutely is), but the takeaway is that inheriting a place in a pre-war building was and still is the golden apple of being a native New Yorker. Rent control created a tradition of multi-generational living in neighborhoods that have it, so that as new generations came of age, they could be added to the lease and keep the apartment in the family. FTR, my extended family has a couple of places in two rent-controlled buildings in the Astoria section of Queens. They have been continuously occupied by some member of my mother's family since about 1924. Native New Yorkers have been conditioned to stay loyal to their neighborhoods.)

 

[Gumbo4x4]

IIRC, there was an episode of Friends where Monica was about to be ratted out for subletting to Rachel - Joey ticked off the maintenance guy. Monica's apartment was rent controlled.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Don't get me started on this. I grew up and still live in Bedford- Stuyvesant. If I say what I think about this issues, I will be banned.

If I hear on more newbie trying to rename sections of Bed-Stuy, I'm going to scream. Idon't give a crap how many hummus and espresso cafes you open up on Franklin, Madison, Halsey,Lewis...It's still Bed-Stuy.

 

[NotUrsula]

I forgot about that weird trend. You are right, it's irritating and ridiculous. While part of me recognizes that it is really just a marketing ploy, I do get irritated by the presumption. As in, who the heck are you to be renaming where I live? Maybe we should copy the UK postal system and start including the neighborhood name in the postal addresses. ;-). Makes it much harder to just change them on a whim.

Speaking of "Bed-Stuy", you will be amused to hear that the popular hipster trend out here in flyover country is renaming neighborhoods with monikers designed to make it sound like we are living in NYC. I mean, really? How pathetic and unoriginal is that? No one is under ANY illusion that some suburb in Missouri has been imported from lower Manhattan.

*Note that I'm not confused about NYC geography. I mean that the names they use are modeled on the ones that have been used in lower Manhattan.