How are we not more outraged about these shootings?

[CPanther95]

Maybe. But she made the choice to keep calm with a loaded gun aimed directly at at her.

I don't have a problem with that. Whether it was a result of the trauma, or she is just that clear headed after such an event.

I don't think her recording it calmly is any indication at all that her boyfriend was up to something.

 

[gwynne]

I don't have a problem with that. Whether it was a result of the trauma, or she is just that clear headed after such an event.

I don't think her recording it calmly is any indication at all that her boyfriend was up to something.

I think he was dead at the point that she was recording. I don't recall saying anything about the deceased being up to something. I don't believe he was. Period.
JMO-I think the recording was about the only way she could reach out for help. It also allowed her to have some sort of record if the worst happened to her, too.

 

[mnrose]

There is ZERO indication that this man was up to anything. None. His only record is of minor traffic offenses. He worked at the same place, a montessori school, around children for more than a decade. He was known only for handing our graham crackers to the kids who seemed to need a little extra love. He was not a bad guy. He was a good guy. Looking for "something" in this guy is gonna be counter productive, as if that matters anyway. Being stopped for a routine traffic matter (busted tail light) should never result in his death.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I think a big issue is putting cops who are from the suburbs in rough neighborhoods and diverse neighborhoods WITH LITTLE TRAINING. IMO they come in with preconceived notions and are scared sh**less. Nothing worse than a scared man with a gun.

 

[mnrose]

I think a big issue is putting cops who are from the suburbs in rough neighborhoods and diverse neighborhoods WITH LITTLE TRAINING. IMO they come in with preconceived notions and are scared sh**less. Nothing worse than a scared man with a gun.

Ok, but this was NOT a rough neighborhood at all. This neighborhood is a fine neighborhood. It's as middle class and suburban as they come. Not disagreeing that this is a problem, but doesn't explain this one. Except a white cop, in a suburban neighborhood, pulled over a black family with a broken tail light. Somewhere in there, fear came into the equation. Not sure why. But, we ALL need to learn to be less fearful of one another.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Ok, but this was NOT a rough neighborhood at all. This neighborhood is a fine neighborhood. It's as middle class and suburban as they come. Not disagreeing that this is a problem, but doesn't explain this one. Except a white cop, in a suburban neighborhood, pulled over a black family with a broken tail light. Somewhere in there, fear came into the equation. Not sure why. But, we ALL need to learn to be less fearful of one another.

I agree. I was mostly thinking of the Louisiana man when I hit send.

 

[cornflkgrl]

I think a big issue is putting cops who are from the suburbs in rough neighborhoods and diverse neighborhoods WITH LITTLE TRAINING. IMO they come in with preconceived notions and are scared sh**less. Nothing worse than a scared man with a gun.

This. And also the militarization of the police in the last decade. Federal programs providing equipment (armored vehicles for small towns, school districts, etc) that does not fit the actual needs of the communities it is being received by. Swat responding for more minor incidents. It creates a feeling of hostility and fear on both sides. The community connection with the local police department doesn't feel the same anymore.

 

[CPanther95]

Nothing worse than a scared man with a gun.

This guy certainly needed more training - or like you said might of just been too easily spooked - to handle this job.

Any officer who interprets a citizen with a gun as an immediate threat doesn't have the constitution to be LE in a country where the citizens have the right to carry firearms. A Minnesota cop is going to counter many citizens with legally concealed firearms - and the driver could have also carried it openly without concealing it at all - so they can't effectively do their job if every time they see one, they assume it's a life or death situation.

 

[pocomom]

It's also a proven fact that blacks commit crime at a higher rate that whites do in this county. If the crime rate was equal the 13 % vs. 34% argument would be valid. Due to the difference in the crime rate it's not a valid argument. If you have more criminal interaction with law enforcement there is greater chance for "bad" things to happen.

Here'e the DOJ info. for 2014 before the accusations of me being racist start.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43

What is a proven fact is that blacks are arrested and prosecuted at a higher ratio... doesn't mean they perpetrate crimes at a higher rate... additionally I would love to see these by income level-

From my own life I have seen white wealthy or middle class kids get away with things that my black friends would never have walked away from. Your statistics can be interpreted many ways.

 

[mnrose]

This guy certainly needed more training - or like you said might of just been too easily spooked - to handle this job.

Any officer who interprets a citizen with a gun as an immediate threat doesn't have the constitution to be LE in a country where the citizens have the right to carry firearms. A Minnesota cop is going to counter many citizens with legally concealed firearms - and the driver could have also carried it openly without concealing it at all - so they can't effectively do their job if every time they see one, they assume it's a life or death situation.

True enough. Out of my friend group, easily 80+% own firearms. Many are concealed carry permitted. I would guess your average patrolman runs into at least one person every.single.day who has a weapon in the vehicle. This is literally the FIRST case I've heard of where someone was shot during a routine traffic stop. In general, training must be pretty good.

 

[L&Lfan]

I am outraged by it. I have a teenage son who is Hispanic. It makes me sick to my stomach. I tell my son to stay far away from police if at all possible, but if he is ever approached by police to keep your hands directly in the air the entire time. Even if it's a routine traffic stop. And to have someone record if they are with him. I go over this with my son often.

ETA: My son has never been approached by police. He's a good kid but that doesn't matter anymore.

Muy listo! But that's good advice for ANYBODY when approached by the police, no matter their ethnicity.

 

[CPanther95]

True enough. Out of my friend group, easily 80+% own firearms. Many are concealed carry permitted. I would guess your average patrolman runs into at least one person every.single.day who has a weapon in the vehicle. This is literally the FIRST case I've heard of where someone was shot during a routine traffic stop. In general, training must be pretty good.

I don't know of anyone that has ever had an issue either. Normally, you notify the officer and he just says "OK". I had one occasion where an officer asked me to put my weapon on the dash where he could see it - and I refused. I told him if he goes back into his patrol car I'll put it up on the roof of my car, but there's not a chance I'm going to pull a loaded weapon out of its holster with a police officer standing outside my window - even if he requested that I do so.


Forgot to add... in my state, anyone 21 or older has a right to keep a weapon in their vehicle as long as it's in some place with a latch (glove box, center console, etc.) even if they have no permit whatsoever. A permit allows you to keep it just about anywhere in reach (or on your person). So I'd agree with your guess that the average patrolman probably faces that scenario at least once a day.

 

[gwynne]

Muy listo! But that's good advice for ANYBODY when approached by the police, no matter their ethnicity.

Agree. Someone on this thread mentioned that people with disabilities should be mindful, too. They may not move in expected or ordered ways, and will need to patiently (and briefly) explain their situation to hopefully avoid misunderstandings.

 

[asta]

Hard to get a lawyer and contact the media if you are dead.

Exactly why you don't fight with the police and resist arrest. Comply with what they tell you and at least have a chance to make a case of how you were mistreated.

I would like to point out this is in regards to the Baton Rouge incident. I don't know what happened in the traffic stop yet. We are only hearing one side of the story. People are speaking to the good character of the deceased but I think we need to hear from the police.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I just have to say I would never want to be a police officer in our cultural environment today. Nor would I encourage my children to aspire to that vocation. They're in a no win situation, imo. Sorry to be so cynical.

You're lucky that you and your children have that choice. The young men in family ( we are black) aren't as "lucky". The color of their skin make them targets for the BAD cops that seem to view black males as a threat.

 

[CPanther95]

Exactly why you don't fight with the police and resist arrest. Comply with what they tell you and at least have a chance to make a case of how you were mistreated.

... and keep your mouth shut.

It's very rare for anything you say to a police officer to be what helps you stay on the right side of the justice system. That happens between your lawyer and the prosecutor's office. The police's job is to enforce laws - and gather any evidence that might help the prosecutors make a case for a crime against somebody.

 

[cabanafrau]

This. And also the militarization of the police in the last decade. Federal programs providing equipment (armored vehicles for small towns, school districts, etc) that does not fit the actual needs of the communities it is being received by. Swat responding for more minor incidents. It creates a feeling of hostility and fear on both sides. The community connection with the local police department doesn't feel the same anymore.

Your last line is a huge issue with our communities in many ways in society today. It's a problem because we often don't know our neighbors anymore and it's easier to dislike, disregard, be rude or inconsiderate of "those people" who only are labeled such because we don't know them. We feel it strongly with our police because we arm them and give them the right to enforce rule of law over us. It's not as dangerous when they are truly Citizens on Patrol who are our neighbors, have kids on the same sports teams as ours, etc. because they aren't inclined to feel the need to draw their weapon when they see it's Joe from the butcher shop at the wheel of the car with the bad taillight.

I'm less inclined to pick at communities having some heavier tactical gear to respond to emergency situations when I consider things like Sandy Hook and Pulse nightclub are happening and law enforcement needs tools to do some jobs nobody wants to imagine.

 

[CPanther95]

This. And also the militarization of the police in the last decade. Federal programs providing equipment (armored vehicles for small towns, school districts, etc) that does not fit the actual needs of the communities it is being received by. Swat responding for more minor incidents. It creates a feeling of hostility and fear on both sides. The community connection with the local police department doesn't feel the same anymore.

Did you know that the US Postal Service also has a SWAT team?

I didn't until I saw them surround a house across the street in my neighborhood, break down the door, and all swarm inside. Neighbor was taken in by a Ponzi scheme, but at the time apparently the authorities thought he may have been involved in running it. They didn't even get an apology. Seemed excessive even if they had the correct target since there was never any violence associated with the guy running it.

SWAT teams are scary enough, but the idea of Postal Worker SWAT team is somehow even more frightening.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I had one occasion where an officer asked me to put my weapon on the dash where he could see it - and I refused. I told him if he goes back into his patrol car I'll put it up on the roof of my car, but there's not a chance I'm going to pull a loaded weapon out of its holster with a police officer standing outside my window - even if he requested that I do so.
.

Can I please ask what color you are? As a black woman, I can't imagine anyone in my family being able to get away that. I find it absolutely amazing that the officer knew you had a gun, gave you an order, you REFUSED to comply and are here today to tell the story.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Your last line is a huge issue with our communities in many ways in society today. It's a problem because we often don't know our neighbors anymore and it's easier to dislike, disregard, be rude or inconsiderate of "those people" who only are labeled such because we don't know them. We feel it strongly with our police because we arm them and give them the right to enforce rule of law over us. It's not as dangerous when they are truly Citizens on Patrol who are our neighbors, have kids on the same sports teams as ours, etc. because they aren't inclined to feel the need to draw their weapon when they see it's Joe from the butcher shop at the wheel of the car with the bad taillight.

I'm less inclined to pick at communities having some heavier tactical gear to respond to emergency situations when I consider things like Sandy Hook and Pulse nightclub are happening and law enforcement needs tools to do some jobs nobody wants to imagine.

Growing up in a rough neighborhood the cops who grew up in that same neighborhood or close by were always the "cool" cops. They didn't feel the need to nit pick crap that outside cops would. They knew the ins and outs of the neighborhood. There is no way they would bother the CD man because he was just a staple of our community. Just like the fruit stand lady or the guy selling pinchos on the corner.

The city I grew up in let go of most of their cops and went to a county police force a few years ago. Hiring many cops as "part time" which means they don't have to take the ctest. They just have to pass the academy. They can't take their guns home either. As soon as it started I felt that it was going to be a problem. Only time will tell.