Hotel Express pass is not what it used to be...

[macraven]

don't get me started.
people that stay at deluxe at disney are treated much better than those at the values.

bus service is more prompt at the deluxe resorts over there ....




i don't think UO resorts would treat on site guests different.
but then, there are always the guests that are newbies that might think different and compare it to the other place.


done with rant, carry on....

 

[basas]

More unpopular with those (ME) that are coming and staying onsite and getting that perk! I love hotel express and would have a hard time adjusting if they did away with it. I'm not even sure I would visit as often as I do.

But really, how much longer can that last?

I thought I heard Universal was looking at expanding and building a few new hotels...? If the amount of people staying on property increased, they'd have no choice but to revise the system.

 

[macraven]

That makes sense to me, but I wonder what the backlash would be. I'm sure there would be people complaining that there was a difference in the classes, & some were being treated as 2nd class citizens. They'd book the cheaper hotel knowing upfront about the lack of FOTL, then be irate because they were treated differently. Naturally, they'd have to rant that all WDW resorts offer the same perks. Yeah, because those perks aren't as good. I'm concerned that adding hotel rooms at UO may affect the perks. As I've said before, if they remove FOTL for the 3 hotels they currently have, I wouldn't want to own stock in the Loews Corp.

If i had the choice of paying $276 for a room with fotl or pay $175 without fotl, in case UO puts up a new hotel that does not include fotl and perks, i would pay the higher amount for fotl.

that is just how i am.

come to think, maybe if UO puts in a new hotel and the basic room charge is $120 a night with no fotl, wouldn't you think that the other 3 hotels would drop some in price?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

If i had the choice of paying $276 or a room with fotl or pay $175 without fotl, in case UO puts up a new hotel that does not include fotl and perks, i would pay the higher amount for fotl.

that is just how i am.

come to think, maybe if UO puts in a new hotel and the basic room charge is $120 a night with no fotl, wouldn't you think that the other 3 hotels would drop some in price?

You'll get no argument from me. We'd definitely pay the difference to stay at one of the original 3 to get FOTL, even if we had to sacrifice in other ways. I've just read too many times how some people feel entitled to things they're not willing to pay for. I worry that the negative PR may change things. I guess it all comes down to me not wanting my UO experience to change & hoping they'll take care of us as they always have. Not adding a bunch of hotel rooms would be a good way to assure that, but I don't see that happening. You can't blame a girl for wishful thinking.

 

[lorax123]

If i had the choice of paying $276 or a room with fotl or pay $175 without fotl, in case UO puts up a new hotel that does not include fotl and perks, i would pay the higher amount for fotl.

that is just how i am.

come to think, maybe if UO puts in a new hotel and the basic room charge is $120 a night with no fotl, wouldn't you think that the other 3 hotels would drop some in price?

I'd consider paying that much. Depending on the time of year though.

But, i'm sure Loews has some type of agreement with Universal regarding FOTL access.

One time I actually did some rough math in my head regarding FOTL and the enumber of people using it.

I estimated 11 million yearly attendance, so 30,000 people a day on average in both parks. 2400 on-site rooms. An average of 3 people per room, so that's 7200 guests on-site on any given day. So, out of that, I figure a 50/50 split between the 2 parks, 3600 on-siters in each park. Out of those, probably only 50% are in a Q at any given time (the others are walking, shopping, eating), so 1800. Around 12 attractions each park, so that means in 12 Qs, there are 150 on-site guests. Then there should be about 600, non-FOTL guests in line at each of those 12 attractions at any given time (est. a higher % of non-FOTL in line, becuase they have longer waits).

Of course my numbers don't mean a darn thing. I'm just guestimating. I was really curious how they could do FOTL, since there have always been rumors of it's demise. I'm sure Uni. did lots and lots of projections to figure out the logistics of the system. But I really don't think FOTL access really hinders the capicity of attractions. I really don't see nearly as many people whipping out FOTL cards to use Express. I see alot more EPs during my stays.

Anyway, do you think I'm way off base? I remember seeing (back in '01) an attendant with a sheet of paper with hourly counts of guests using EPs (back when they were still free) and FOTL cards, this was on Spiderman BYTW. I asked him about it, he just said they were counting guests that day.

Under FOTL, there was a huge spike of guests in the AM, but by the PM it had dropped off considerably (I think around the 6pm hour we were like the 5th and 6th guests using FOTL). EPs started slowly, but by mid-afternoon dominated his chart.

I think too much.

But I'd love to hear real numbers from the source. But if we ever found out those, I'm sure white vans would be parked out in front of the house monitoring my every move.

 

[cbdmhgp]

So I am wondering in the busy summer months with the FOTL pass, how long is the average wait?

It really just depends on the month, the day of the week, and the time that you go. FOTL in the mornings is awesome. we get there as soon as the gates open, and we're done by 10:30 am, so we can do everything again. In the afternoon it starts to get crowded, but our longest wait last year in FOTL was 10 minutes, and that was for ROTM.

 

[bubba's mom]

I'd consider paying that much. Depending on the time of year though.

But, i'm sure Loews has some type of agreement with Universal regarding FOTL access.

One time I actually did some rough math in my head regarding FOTL and the enumber of people using it.

I estimated 11 million yearly attendance, so 30,000 people a day on average in both parks. 2400 on-site rooms. An average of 3 people per room, so that's 7200 guests on-site on any given day. So, out of that, I figure a 50/50 split between the 2 parks, 3600 on-siters in each park. Out of those, probably only 50% are in a Q at any given time (the others are walking, shopping, eating), so 1800. Around 12 attractions each park, so that means in 12 Qs, there are 150 on-site guests. Then there should be about 600, non-FOTL guests in line at each of those 12 attractions at any given time (est. a higher % of non-FOTL in line, becuase they have longer waits).

Of course my numbers don't mean a darn thing. I'm just guestimating. I was really curious how they could do FOTL, since there have always been rumors of it's demise. I'm sure Uni. did lots and lots of projections to figure out the logistics of the system. But I really don't think FOTL access really hinders the capicity of attractions. I really don't see nearly as many people whipping out FOTL cards to use Express. I see alot more EPs during my stays.

Anyway, do you think I'm way off base? I remember seeing (back in '01) an attendant with a sheet of paper with hourly counts of guests using EPs (back when they were still free) and FOTL cards, this was on Spiderman BYTW. I asked him about it, he just said they were counting guests that day.

Under FOTL, there was a huge spike of guests in the AM, but by the PM it had dropped off considerably (I think around the 6pm hour we were like the 5th and 6th guests using FOTL). EPs started slowly, but by mid-afternoon dominated his chart.

I think too much.

But I'd love to hear real numbers from the source. But if we ever found out those, I'm sure white vans would be parked out in front of the house monitoring my every move.

Wow you had some time to run some numbers and really think about this, huh? It makes sense, as i have often thought about how many are staying onsite vs off and not everyone onsite is actually IN a line all the time. (Your numbers make it a little more "real" to think about is all) I know for a fact that we would definately pay more to stay at a "FOTL hotel" vs a "non-FOTL" hotel....it is just that valuable in our opinion! Whatever UO decides to do, they should keep it in check. I think Disney would love to offer FOTL to their onsite guests, but they just got too big and can't do it That is a main draw for UO and they know it ..... i think they will be sure to remember it when the new hotels come and like mentioned before, I'm sure they have some kind of "commitment" w/ Loew's and it doesn't sound like the new hotel will be a "Loew's"

 

[GrumpyFamilyof5]

I say do what Disney does, specially if they build more hotels. Do a ticket in ticket out fastpass type thing during the day and have on selected days one of the parks stay open an hour or two later for the hotel guests??

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I say do what Disney does, specially if they build more hotels. Do a ticket in ticket out fastpass type thing during the day and have on selected days one of the parks stay open an hour or two later for the hotel guests??

Right now, UO's onsite perks blow away WDW's system. To implement a system like WDW's for onsite guests would be a huge step backwards.

 

[AlexandNessa]

I really hope it's not just wishful thinking that the new hotel be a value hotel with no FOTL. IIRC, the one new hotel more than doubles the current number of on-site rooms. Granted, not all hotel guests are there for the parks ... some are just convention fogeys who don't visit the parks at all.

If they double the number of rooms available and still want to offer unlimited express for on-site guests, they should also double the number of theme parks from 2 to 4. Or at least double the number of thrill rides. Or stop selling so many express passes. Sure, that would happen, and then I'd wake up ...

So, here's one with all fingers and toes crossed that they cheap out with the new hotel and the only benefit those guests have is that they can walk to the parks without crossing a highway or can take the boat to City Walk.

I know it probably sounds snide to some, but TB. Right now, we find Universal a terrific value and a great, fun, convenient, and relaxing vacation. If the express lines are too taxed by either too many hotel guests, too many express passes being sold, or guests manipulating the system to use their passes more than once per ride, all those things go away for us. It is not our idea of a vacation to wake up and be at the front gate 15-30 minutes before the park opens. Why bother to stay on-site at all if that's what we'd need to do? FOTL differentiates Universal from all other vacations we take. Take away FOTL or make it so that the Express Lines are much longer than what they used to be, and Universal becomes just another vacation. Not THE vacation.

 

[bubba's mom]

.... we find Universal a terrific value and a great, fun, convenient, and relaxing vacation. If the express lines are too taxed by either too many hotel guests, too many express passes being sold, or guests manipulating the system to use their passes more than once per ride, all those things go away for us. It is not our idea of a vacation to wake up and be at the front gate 15-30 minutes before the park opens. Why bother to stay on-site at all if that's what we'd need to do? FOTL differentiates Universal from all other vacations we take. Take away FOTL or make it so that the Express Lines are much longer than what they used to be, and Universal becomes just another vacation. Not THE vacation.

i couldn't agree more........ it would be become a "Disney" vacation .....and if I want to wait in lines like at Disney, I might as well go to Disney!

 

[slick_willy]

I'd consider paying that much. Depending on the time of year though.

But, i'm sure Loews has some type of agreement with Universal regarding FOTL access.

One time I actually did some rough math in my head regarding FOTL and the enumber of people using it.

I estimated 11 million yearly attendance, so 30,000 people a day on average in both parks. 2400 on-site rooms. An average of 3 people per room, so that's 7200 guests on-site on any given day. So, out of that, I figure a 50/50 split between the 2 parks, 3600 on-siters in each park. Out of those, probably only 50% are in a Q at any given time (the others are walking, shopping, eating), so 1800. Around 12 attractions each park, so that means in 12 Qs, there are 150 on-site guests. Then there should be about 600, non-FOTL guests in line at each of those 12 attractions at any given time (est. a higher % of non-FOTL in line, becuase they have longer waits).

Of course my numbers don't mean a darn thing. I'm just guestimating. I was really curious how they could do FOTL, since there have always been rumors of it's demise. I'm sure Uni. did lots and lots of projections to figure out the logistics of the system. But I really don't think FOTL access really hinders the capicity of attractions. I really don't see nearly as many people whipping out FOTL cards to use Express. I see alot more EPs during my stays.

Anyway, do you think I'm way off base? I remember seeing (back in '01) an attendant with a sheet of paper with hourly counts of guests using EPs (back when they were still free) and FOTL cards, this was on Spiderman BYTW. I asked him about it, he just said they were counting guests that day.

Under FOTL, there was a huge spike of guests in the AM, but by the PM it had dropped off considerably (I think around the 6pm hour we were like the 5th and 6th guests using FOTL). EPs started slowly, but by mid-afternoon dominated his chart.

I think too much.

But I'd love to hear real numbers from the source. But if we ever found out those, I'm sure white vans would be parked out in front of the house monitoring my every move.

Nice statistical analysis, but I'd say that for an average day, your numbers are off. First of all, with 2400 rooms, they would be booked at maximum capacity, and I don't think that happens unless it's a holiday or a special event. Maybe someone who works for Loew's will find this thread and let us know what percentage of the rooms (on average) are booked through the year. Also, as far as 50% of onsite guests waiting in a queue at any given time, I would say that there are probably less than that. IMHO, the average onsite guest takes things a little more leisurely than the offsite guests, because they can afford to with FOTL. I would think that they may be shopping, eating, taking photos, or just soaking in the atmosphere, unlike the offsite guests who tour commando style.


As far as the OP goes, I'm thinking along the same lines as Damo, perhaps there was a malfunction on the Mummy. ROTM, has a capacity of 2000 people per hour, so I can't see how the FOTL wait could be so long unless there was a break-down.

I think the reason that they moved from an Express Pass system to the Express Pass Plus/ FOTL for onsite guests was to boost occupancy at the onsite hotels. I'm sure that Universal has some sort of agreement with Loew's that has to do with FOTL and occupancy. How many people would pay $250 per night if there wasn't some sort of perk like FOTL?

 

[GemmaPixie]

I think a value hotel for Universal would be a smart move. For one, if the new hotel didn't offer FOTL, then the whole FOTL issue would be solved. Secondly, a lot of people enjoy Universal holidays but I'm sure there are many that would love to stay onsite, just to be close to the parks and citywalk but can't afford it. This way they can be onsite but not pay the deluxe prices. Also, those who enoy to do the park early in the morning could stay in the value hotels because if you are at the park before park opening, you can do the rides without FOTL.

 

[lorax123]

Wow you had some time to run some numbers and really think about this, huh? It makes sense, as i have often thought about how many are staying onsite vs off and not everyone onsite is actually IN a line all the time. (Your numbers make it a little more "real" to think about is all) I know for a fact that we would definately pay more to stay at a "FOTL hotel" vs a "non-FOTL" hotel....it is just that valuable in our opinion! Whatever UO decides to do, they should keep it in check. I think Disney would love to offer FOTL to their onsite guests, but they just got too big and can't do it That is a main draw for UO and they know it ..... i think they will be sure to remember it when the new hotels come and like mentioned before, I'm sure they have some kind of "commitment" w/ Loew's and it doesn't sound like the new hotel will be a "Loew's"

I'm so glad someone doesn't think I'm crazy! I wondered about the logistics to FOTL, but unless my guess are WAY OFF (like by an 10k people on site), it really seems like a viable system that could go on for quite awhile with no changes. Until they double the number of rooms onsite, and double attendance, but I don't see crazy jumps like that happening in the immediate future (well maybe if Harry Potter really takes off).

I think Disney could offer a system similar. I hate FP. I'd prefer buying FPs like the EPs at Uni. FP might be free. But it's inconvienient. i prefer to start at one end of the park, do those attractions and move to the next. I hate going to one section, getting a FP, then having to double back later! Never fails, I get FPs that occur at lunch time, or some other event.

I think Disney could do it, if they offered it to Deluxe resort guests, that pay for concerige level, and offer it at certain parks, certain days, for certain hotels. Stagger it! I'd really consider paying $3-500 a night for this.

Extra magic hours never worked for me either. I'd rather spend my trip relaxing and not worrying about being here or there at certain times, timing the crowds, etc. etc.. That's not a vacation.

I love FOTL, and I'm willing to pay for it, I've even paid for VIP tours during HHN. On the HHN RIP Tours, it cost about $400 ($125 RIP Tour, $60 passes) to get into the park on a peak night, figure the other $220 we paid for a APH room at PBH, That's a $700 night, once you figure food and drinks at HHN. Figure another $70 for food during the day for 2 people... We aren't rich, we just are willing to pay for convience and a little bit of luxury on vacation.

Of course we still try to hunt down the best deal possible!

 

[bubba's mom]

... We aren't rich, we just are willing to pay for convience and a little bit of luxury on vacation.

Of course we still try to hunt down the best deal possible!

us too! ....willing to pay that extra to get a little extra!

 

[macraven]

i guess i am just one of those type of people that will pay for what i want.
i try to use the AAA or AP for the discounts but if i couldn't, i would still pay those high costs to stay on site and have the fotl.

i blow a lot during hhn stays.
the room for 4 or 5 nights, the ep and hhn tickets.
and this year, i am doing the rip hhn tour.



but for me, it is worth it.

 

[lorax123]

i guess i am just one of those type of people that will pay for what i want.
i try to use the AAA or AP for the discounts but if i couldn't, i would still pay those high costs to stay on site and have the fotl.

i blow a lot during hhn stays.
the room for 4 or 5 nights, the ep and hhn tickets.
and this year, i am doing the rip hhn tour.



but for me, it is worth it.

Exactly our philosphy! I tried doing discount trips before and when all is said and done, we may have saved a couple hundred dollars. But, unless you really don't have the money, is it worth it? $200 savings, putting up with a crappy mold infested hotel room, drunken teenagers, no FOTL.... (this is all taken from a bad Howard Johnsons experience).

We cheap out on things for most of the year. It's nice to splurge!

 

[basas]

I say do what Disney does, specially if they build more hotels. Do a ticket in ticket out fastpass type thing during the day and have on selected days one of the parks stay open an hour or two later for the hotel guests??

And that is what I wish they would do. Open the park an hour early. Close the park a few hours later (although they should be keeping the parks open later for all guests too...why can't IOA stay open until 7 or 8, and the Studios 9 or 10 (in the off season)?).

But during regular operating hours, all guests should be treated equally.

 

[cbdmhgp]

And that is what I wish they would do. Open the park an hour early. Close the park a few hours later (although they should be keeping the parks open later for all guests too...why can't IOA stay open until 7 or 8, and the Studios 9 or 10 (in the off season)?).

But during regular operating hours, all guests should be treated equally.

I sent an e-mail to US/IOA suggesting that they should try that this summer. stay open till about 1 in the morning or so for the hotel guests

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I sent an e-mail to US/IOA suggesting that they should try that this summer. stay open till about 1 in the morning or so for the hotel guests

Just to clarify..... Are you suggesting they do away with FOTL for hotel guests, & add hours before & after normal park hours for them instead? If so, the people who would still pay to stay onsite would have a deserted park at 1 am. They would be staying in a much quieter & more empty hotel too. I doubt there would be too many onsite guests that would rather have a couple extra hours than FOTL all the time. Maybe in the off-season, but not in peak seasons.