Homework rant

[Jennabeth]

Another thing on the homework issue: lots of teachers are "flipping" their classrooms.

I've experimented with it a little this year. Here's how it works:

There are lots and lots of sites with fabulous instructional videos. So, for example, last night my geometry homework was to watch a video and take notes. The material covered all the basic definitions of the chapter we started yesterday on circles.

So my kids spent 17 minutes last night watching a video, and taking notes on major and minor arcs, central angles and inscribed angles. That meant that yesterday in class, I could give them a quick description, and move on. It means that today they'll be doing the drill work that I would have assigned as homework in the past... but that we'll be doing it together. Them coming to class with the rules already written down means I spend less time watching they copy notes.

I haven't done a total flip for a number of reasons-- I like MY explanations better than many of the ones I've found online, and lots of our kids lost access to computers when they lost their homes in Hurricane Sandy. My explanations tend to vary from one period to the next, depending on the kids in the room. I can't ensure that they really understand what they've gotten from a video. But I have done what I call a "slow rollover", playing with the idea of them sometimes taking notes at home and doing more drillwork in class. I would imagine that, had I not explained it to parents in the fall, some might see the homework as busy work, since it doesn't really require a lot of concentration. But, as we all know, one of the best ways to learn material is to write it, so those definitions and theorems need to go into the notebooks. If they can take some of the notes at home, I can put more time into working with those theorems and definitions.

I'm having fun with it, and the kids love it. Watching a video on www.teachertube.com or www.khanacademy.com really does break up their homework load, and it seems to be working well.

My DD's (7th grade) math class is like this and we LOVE it! There are two teachers teaching this way and they make the video themselves, so it's explained they way the want it to be. I now have a daughter who is 'getting' math for the first time because she can watch the video a few times and get the teacher to help her while she is doing the homework. I think it's the second year they've done this for all the students. The first time it was for the advanced math and all the grades went up so much that it's become the standard.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Obviously I left out some info from that post. The teacher usually teaches a lessen for about a half hour which is fine with me. It's that some of her teachers will teach the lesson and then just let the class talk for the next half hour and then just before the bell give the homework. If the teacher gave it to them right after the lesson they would have been able to finish a lot of it before they even get home. I have no problem if the teacher is teaching for those 70 minutes but they aren't

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I had a teacher like that for two years in highschool. I took the homework/book from a previous class with me whenever I went and if we ended up with "free" time, I would get that done.

 

[Sam81]

I have two extremely gifted students. They average about 30 minutes of homework. Homework should not be hard for the truly gifted. In fact the AP classes are pretty much a joke.

Maybe the advanced classed are too advanced for the student.

 

[Iforgetmypassword]

I have two extremely gifted students. They average about 30 minutes of homework. Homework should not be hard for the truly gifted. In fact the AP classes are pretty much a joke.

Maybe the advanced classed are too advanced for the student.

AMEN! Sounds like some kids are in advanced classes, but should not be. If it's that tough, why not drop them down a level? Is it really worth all the tears and struggling?

 

[Sam81]

AMEN! Sounds like some kids are in advanced classes, but should not be. If it's that tough, why not drop them down a level? Is it really worth all the tears and struggling?

My kids spend more time writing the answer than actually doing the work. The work is a joke. They are gifted, it's like sending home a worksheet asking what sound the cow makes.

 

[NHdisneylover]

AMEN! Sounds like some kids are in advanced classes, but should not be. If it's that tough, why not drop them down a level? Is it really worth all the tears and struggling?

The person you quoted pretty much only posts sarcasm which seems intended to make fun of the many "perfect" kids and parents and spouses here on the DIS. You know that, right?

In case you are serious, I think the OP was clear on more than one occasion that her DD is fine with all the work and it is only the OP who cares. So, no tears (unless the OP is crying over it )

 

[Sanchez]

The person you quoted pretty much only posts sarcasm which seems intended to make fun of the many "perfect" kids and parents and spouses here on the DIS. You know that, right?

In case you are serious, I think the OP was clear on more than one occasion that her DD is fine with all the work and it is only the OP who cares. So, no tears (unless the OP is crying over it )

Sarcasm or not, the point remains valid. If a student cannot complete homework and other assignments in a reasonable period of time perhaps they are not suited for honors/AP classes. At the very least, they should reduce the number of those types of courses.

 

[Iforgetmypassword]

The person you quoted pretty much only posts sarcasm which seems intended to make fun of the many "perfect" kids and parents and spouses here on the DIS. You know that, right?

In case you are serious, I think the OP was clear on more than one occasion that her DD is fine with all the work and it is only the OP who cares. So, no tears (unless the OP is crying over it )

Sorry, i have no idea who the famous DISsers are, or how they post, or what everyone is supposed to just know.

I was being completely serious.

Sarcasm or not, it's true. If my child was spending 2 hours per night per subject, crying because there is so much, I'd take her out of that class and put her in one for the AVERAGE kids.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Sarcasm or not, the point remains valid. If a student cannot complete homework and other assignments in a reasonable period of time perhaps they are not suited for honors/AP classes. At the very least, they should reduce the number of those types of courses.

I would agree that if the student is struggling, in spite of working at it (not goofing off), then they likely need to drop some of their courses down to lower levels.

Then again, some kids work faster than others--and it does not have much to do with intelligence. My kids have nearly identical IQ sores.

My two kids could have the same work and both WORK at it, and DD would finish it in one third to one fourth the time it takes DS.

He could be a in a lower level class and need as much time for THAT homework as the "harder" work, if it were the same number of math problems for example. In that case, he might as well learn at his "intelligence" level, since he will always struggle to produce at the faster speed.

 

[sam_gordon]

How did we get from homework taking 3-4 hours each night to each class giving 2 hours of homework each night?

 

[Sanchez]

I would agree that if the student is struggling, in spite of working at it (not goofing off), then they likely need to drop some of their courses down to lower levels.

Then again, some kids work faster than others--and it does not have much to do with intelligence. My kids have nearly identical IQ sores.

My two kids could have the same work and both WORK at it, and DD would finish it in one third to one fourth the time it takes DS.

He could be a in a lower level class and need as much time for THAT homework as the "harder" work, if it were the same number of math problems for example. In that case, he might as well learn at his "intelligence" level, since he will always struggle to produce at the faster speed.

Well, we disagree on what it means to be intelligent. I consider time needed to read, process and respond a key factor in intelligence.

I recently went through the process of hiring an associate attorney. These young attorneys are expected to work long hours and produce. It would not be practical to hire someone who takes three to four times longer to complete tasks. Should clients pay 3-4 times (when working at an hourly rate) for work? Should the law firm just suck it up and accept one third of the productivity? Should judges, when in court, give three to four times the time to respond to a question?

Sorry, whatever your claims of IQ scores you will not convince me that response/completion time is not a key factor in intelligence.

 

[declansdad]

I'm a high school math teacher, and I absolutely agree with the OP.

My classes have what we lovingly call the "20 minute rule."

You need to spend 20 minutes per night doing your math homework. No texting, no snacking, no Facebook, no phone... 20 minutes of quality time with a pencil (or pen) and your math textbook.

At the end of those 20 minutes, finished or not, you can close the book.

If you're the only one who struggled, I'll expect to see you in extra help. If everyone struggled, then I messed up-- either my explanation wasn't clear or I underestimated the difficulty or length of the assignment.

You're also allowed to miss, then make up for full credit, up to 3 assignments per marking periods. Hey, sometimes life gets in the way of homework. Either you come home sick, or it's Grandma's birthday, or the appointment at the orthodontist's runs long.

There are no "math emergencies" that should require any kid to spend hours on my math homework.

I wish more teachers, at the end of a long day, had to spend a few hours helping their young kids with homework. I think they would see the frustration of a kid who KNOWS he's doing busy work, and the fear in the eyes of a conscientious kid who simply doesn't get the material but needs to finish it.

I have 180 days in which to cover the syllabus. It's my job to ensure that it's done well and that I've utilized my time well. I work from bell to bell, we don't play games or have days when we ease up. If you miss a day of my class, you've missed a lot. Miss a week, and you're in a pretty deep hole. But 180 days of one 38 minute class, plus 20 minutes of homework per day, is all I need.

So using the 20 minute rule a student would have approximately an hour to an hour and a half of homework per night. Seems like the OPs daughter isn't far off this practice.

 

[MrsDuck]

I teach 7th grade. My kids get one homework assignment a week. Why? It's my educational philosophy. I teach Civics. There is little practice involved with Civics, unlike math or science concepts-- I understand why students have substantial amounts of HW in that class.

My students are expected to read the chapter on their own time (we read it as a class during the day) and to study for tests. That to me isn't homework... that's studying.

I took many AP classes in high school, had very little homework except for large assignments like a paper or project.

I think the amount of homework really depends on the class and the teacher's educational philosophies.

 

[declansdad]

What really gets me is the fact that in my dd's school the teacher talks for the whole class period and then 5 minutes before the bell they assign the homework. That's 70 minutes of class time that could have been use to finish homework had it been assigned at the beginning of class however they wait till the last second to assign it

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It is called teaching, homework by definition is done at home or out of class.

 

[Mkrop]

Sarcasm or not, the point remains valid. If a student cannot complete homework and other assignments in a reasonable period of time perhaps they are not suited for honors/AP classes. At the very least, they should reduce the number of those types of courses.

I know how Sam81 posts and I was going to say the same thing as you...I think everyone wants their kid to be in these high level courses but I dont think as many should be. The coursework should be able to be completed in a reasonable timeframe as well as being able to ace a test.

 

[sam_gordon]

So using the 20 minute rule a student would have approximately an hour to an hour and a half of homework per night. Seems like the OPs daughter isn't far off this practice.

Actually, assuming a 6 class day, that's 2 hours of homework.

My students are expected to read the chapter on their own time (we read it as a class during the day) and to study for tests. That to me isn't homework... that's studying.

Studying <> homework? I don't know one student that wouldn't classify studying as homework.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Sorry, i have no idea who the famous DISsers are, or how they post, or what everyone is supposed to just know.

I was being completely serious.

Sarcasm or not, it's true. If my child was spending 2 hours per night per subject, crying because there is so much, I'd take her out of that class and put her in one for the AVERAGE kids.

I would think the over the top "my kids are so gifted that AP classes are a joke" attitude would have clued you in a bit This is a relatively new poster, but they are all over the place with that kind of sarcasm. I pointed it out to you, because your "AMEN" to his "my kids are super, incredibly, perfectly gifted" style post kind of made you out to be what he was making fun of--personally I would want to know that and get rid of the quote and not give him that satisfaction. It strikes me as mean spirited. If you don't care, that is just fine.

Well, we disagree on what it means to be intelligent. I consider time needed to read, process and respond a key factor in intelligence.

I recently went through the process of hiring an associate attorney. These young attorneys are expected to work long hours and produce. It would not be practical to hire someone who takes three to four times longer to complete tasks. Should clients pay 3-4 times (when working at an hourly rate) for work? Should the law firm just suck it up and accept one third of the productivity? Should judges, when in court, give three to four times the time to respond to a question?

Sorry, whatever your claims of IQ scores you will not convince me that response/completion time is not a key factor in intelligence.

Okay. Whatever. My son would likely never apply for or want to work at your firm, or anywhere where he was expected to read and produce written answers quickly. (especially handwritten, which takes him much longer than using a computer, but accommodation like use of a laptop--which is realistically what ADULTS will do in the job world anyway--are not generally allowed here in Germany).
Then again, he is the sort of person who enjoys high level math and "gets it" intuitively nearly always. He is also learning to work in code and loves that (because, let's face it, it is mostly complicated math). There are plenty of things he CAN do, and having the math base that a higher level class teaches him is helpful, and the math part is EASY for him--so why shouldn't he take the class even if it takes a long time to write out 50 practice problems (if that is what the teacher requires, regardless of if the understand the material and do well on tests)?

 

[NHdisneylover]

Actually, assuming a 6 class day, that's 2 hours of homework.

Studying <> homework? I don't know one student that wouldn't classify studying as homework.

Mine think of them as different. "Studying" is what you do if you are not someone who remembers things after being told once (or reading it once).

Homework is what you have to do either because that is assigned as the way to learn the material the first time around (like the PP who posted about assigning watching online videos to introduce material--before she ever covers it in class) Or (more often) it is the thing you have to PRODUCE for your teacher, generally to show your understanding and mastery of whatever it is you are learning. Often, though not always, it is useless busy work. Sometimes it the real "lesson" in it is learning how to gauge what a particular teacher actually wants even when that is not really what they assign, or the assignment is unclear, much like one will have to do with a boss later on.

 

[TomorrowlandFamily]

My children are still in elementary school, so I don't have these high school class issues yet, but after reading this thread I'm even more convinced to follow my brother's lead with his h.s. kids: regular classes only.

It's not worth the stress in their teenage life to be loaded with APs and Honors classes when they'll still go to college and have careers with regular classes. In the big scheme of things in this life, going to college for 3 years instead of 4 is such a small reward for all the h.s. stress associated with it.

I don't believe the tons-of-AP/Honors-students learn time management and stress management: they learn how to unhealthily obsess over getting the magnificent scores to get into the magnificent colleges and they feel crap when they don't get into their first choice college. I read about it every day on College Confidential.

 

[zoemurr]

I have no dog in this fight because I don't have kids, but several responses have been "attacky".
QUOTE]

Thanks.

Last night she had two hours of math (29 trig problems to study for a test.. ) and a SS packet that I didn't look at.

As I said before:
-She is not struggling and there is no reason to suggest she move down (although many of you thought this was necessary.. who said anything about tears?)
-It seemed heavy for one night from only two classes.
-I was upset because I wanted some family time. She was in her room working (at the desk.. no "media" available) and I didn't hear a peep out of her until she was done.
-I'm glad three nights a year of family time works for many of you, but it makes me sad. Agree to disagree?
-I feel that an assignment that takes longer than 30 minutes should be given more than one night. Sometimes life gets in the way.
-She spent every day of vacation working also. A nine page ELA report (that needed to be tea-stained and "aged",) and packets for most other classes. I felt badly. When the week was over I realized that we really didn't do anything at all that was just for fun. She picked this schedule and SHE IS FINE WITH IT.