homeschool ? Please help.

[slmcn66]

...I asked who was overseeing to make sure children were being properly educated at home, and I still have the question - because too many states simply have lax rules. Oh, rules exist, but they could be tighter.

I am glad NJ is a state with few homeschool requirements/rules/laws, especially because we are not provided with any funding. It allows me to be creative with the learning process and tailor curriculum to the needs of my children.

I might welcome oversite by the state if it also meant I would receive funding - books, field trips & independent testing can become very costly. Many school districts are not even willing to allow homeschooled students to participate in school programs even though our tax dollars support them. In NJ the decision is keft up to the school boards and administrators.

I am a certified teacher - but homeschooling is a different ballgame.

 

[castleview]

That might be her opinion, but that is not the facts in the situation.

When you used the testing services, were you in charge or someone else? I'm way late on this thread, obviously.

 

[Mary2e]

When you used the testing services, were you in charge or someone else? I'm way late on this thread, obviously.

You're way late. In a nutshell, if you read the last couple of pages, you will see that I have been accused of having an agenda, of being mentally ill, etc all because I asked a question. My posts, and those from others, have tried to explain how I felt, but it apparently wasn't good enough. I have an agenda and am attacking home schoolers.

I don't and I'm not. But this is the internet, and you can't please all the people all the time. I know I've received some very nice PMs from people as well as those who posted publicly indicating they got what I was trying to say and understand.

I'm just ignoring certain people. There really are some doozies on the internet.

 

[castleview]

Many school districts are not even willing to allow homeschooled students to participate in school programs even though our tax dollars support them. In NJ the decision is keft up to the school boards and administrators.

I am a certified teacher - but homeschooling is a different ballgame.

We had a situation in CT when a homeschooler wanted to play on the PS basketball team but wasn't allowed to. I tend to agree with this because she chose to not be a part of the school, so why should she be able to play for the school's basketball team? Plus, I think it would open a can of worms. What if a private/parchocial school student wasn't good enough to make his school team? Should he be able to now play on the public school team because his family pays taxes?

While I respect your decision to homeschool your child (and am happy you are a certified teacher), I don't think a child should be able to pick and choose how they use the local school. I have a degree in English and DH teaches physics. I don't think that my kids should be able to use the school only for the classes we won't/can't teach them.

This is just my opinion. I don't mean to be offensive, but have the flame suit on!

 

[Mary2e]

I am glad NJ is a state with few homeschool requirements/rules/laws, especially because we are not provided with any funding. It allows me to be creative with the learning process and tailor curriculum to the needs of my children.

I might welcome oversite by the state if it also meant I would receive funding - books, field trips & independent testing can become very costly. Many school districts are not even willing to allow homeschooled students to participate in school programs even though our tax dollars support them. In NJ the decision is keft up to the school boards and administrators.

I am a certified teacher - but homeschooling is a different ballgame.

I don't think this is any different for private schools either. Any testing of children should be at the expense of the state/school distrcict and not the parent.

As for the taxes issue, and heaven knows, I pay a fortune in school taxes, the schools are there for you to use, just like any other public service. If you chose not to use them there are no refunds. I also can't see how a district can allow you to pick and chose the services you want to use while also properly planning activities and class sizes for the students who do attend.

If you're a certified teacher, you're more than well qualified to home school and I don't doubt your children are doing very very well. My question, way back when, was concerned with the parents who are not qualifed at all and the cracks these children may fall through.

 

[gina2000]

I'm a sub in a school district in NJ and there are a few things you guys don't know concerning testing that might shed some light on the subject.

If a student in our district is below proficient in math or language arts, he/she is placed in a basic skills class in addition to his/her regular math class. If he/she is below proficient in language arts, he/she is placed in a basic skills reading and/or writing class. These classes are small by design, usually under 10 students. And as the name suggests, the curriculum reinforces skills at or below the student's grade level. The student does not fail for the year assuming that his/her grades are passing. Very often a student will not repeat a grade because parents will not allow it even if necessary. That's going against the school's recommendation but it is the parent's prerogative.

As far as faking testing.....in our district's middle schools (which have NJASK and GEPA testing) 2 teachers are assigned to each classroom. There is no talking and teachers circle the room checking for any inappropriate behavior. Students are not allowed to use the bathroom except during breaks which only occur after a section has been completed. Calculator memories must be erased and no extra paper with formulas is allowed in the classroom.

Test books have printed labels with names and student ids on them. These are affixed by the principal and guidance prior to handing them out in homerooms. Tests are collected by guidance only, boxed and immediately shipped out to the state. These tests are not available for teachers to peruse either before or after the testing. State supervisors make unannounced visits during the testing in many public schools to check that protocol is being followed.

I hope this answers many of your questions concerning testing in NJ schools. It's taken very, very seriously by staff and administration. No one wants to risk losing a license by violating any of the state procedurial mandates.

 

[sha_lyn]

When you used the testing services, were you in charge or someone else? I'm way late on this thread, obviously.

This is the GA home school law pertaining to testing
5. Students in home study programs shall be subject to an appropriate nationally standardized testing program
administered in consultation with a person trained in the administration and interpretation of norm reference
tests to evaluate their educational progress at least every three years beginning at the end of the third grade and
records of such tests and scores shall be retained but shall not be required to be submitted to public educational authorities;
from http://www.heir.org/pdf-files/doi2004.pdf

I order the test through one of several testing services. Hewitt is the one I used this year. I have used Thurber's in the past. BJU also offers a testing service, but you must use one of their approved testing administrators.
They send me all the testing material. I give the test in my home and then send it into the testing service to be scored.

I don't think this is any different for private schools either. Any testing of children should be at the expense of the state/school distrcict and not the parent.

If you're a certified teacher, you're more than well qualified to home school and I don't doubt your children are doing very very well. My question, way back when, was concerned with the parents who are not qualifed at all and the cracks these children may fall through

Your question was answered "way back", but when you didn't like the answers given you complained that it was never answered. The one and only answer you acknowledged when it was give, was Jenny's "nothing". Then when pressured you said you disagreed with my answer. You can be of the opinion that portfolios, reviews etc are not good enough, but how can you disagree with the answer?
You asked a question that had a factual answer. I answered it with facts and you disagreed. That is exactly why I feel you have an agenda against homeschooling. You dismiss facts that do not fit with your hypothetically idea of how homeschooling should be.

I am not being snaky here. I really get the feeling you would be much happier living in a country with a socialist government. You want the government to pay for, be responsible for, and be accountable for each individual. However we live in a country that guarantees us certain individual rights. With these rights comes a lot of responsibility and self accountability.

 

[sha_lyn]

We had a situation in CT when a homeschooler wanted to play on the PS basketball team but wasn't allowed to. I tend to agree with this because she chose to not be a part of the school, so why should she be able to play for the school's basketball team? Plus, I think it would open a can of worms. What if a private/parchocial school student wasn't good enough to make his school team? Should he be able to now play on the public school team because his family pays taxes?

While I respect your decision to homeschool your child (and am happy you are a certified teacher), I don't think a child should be able to pick and choose how they use the local school. I have a degree in English and DH teaches physics. I don't think that my kids should be able to use the school only for the classes we won't/can't teach them.

This is just my opinion. I don't mean to be offensive, but have the flame suit on!

No flames here. As a home schooler ITA with you.
My one and only exception would be in the case of cyber charter schools. They are actually a part of the public school systems although they often get lump together with homeschooling.

We are lucky to live in an area with a large number of home schoolers.
Because of this, my children have plenty of opportunities for sports, clubs etc.
While I feel for those who are not as lucky, I fault them for not organizing such activities. I don't feel it is the public schools responsibility to provide classes or extra curricular activities to home schoolers.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

We had a situation in CT when a homeschooler wanted to play on the PS basketball team but wasn't allowed to. I tend to agree with this because she chose to not be a part of the school, so why should she be able to play for the school's basketball team? Plus, I think it would open a can of worms. What if a private/parchocial school student wasn't good enough to make his school team? Should he be able to now play on the public school team because his family pays taxes?

While I respect your decision to homeschool your child (and am happy you are a certified teacher), I don't think a child should be able to pick and choose how they use the local school. I have a degree in English and DH teaches physics. I don't think that my kids should be able to use the school only for the classes we won't/can't teach them.

This is just my opinion. I don't mean to be offensive, but have the flame suit on!

I disagree.

In the state of Florida, a homeschool student is overseen by the county. I must register with the county of my intent by letter within 30 days of starting a homeschool and submit an annual review by certified teacher or psychologist OR test results. I must also tell them when I stop homeschooling for any reason (move, going back to public school, going to a private school, or my child graduates).

A private school student does not do any of this. Their parent chooses to remove them from the public school system umbrella entirely.

In this state, my child is legally entitled to services provided by the county (i.e. speech pathology or any services necessary per any disabilities any of my children might have) as well as access to extra-curricular activities. The latter goes away if I opt to homeschool but register with a private school (in this state referred to as a 600 school). At that point, I am no longer overseen by the county and do not fall under their umbrella. However, I *think* that services would still be available b/c private schools cannot always facilitate them. But I can't recall how that works as we do not need services at this time.

If my child wants to be a cheerleader in high school....she must be permitted to try out. She wants to be in band, she must be given equal opportunity. She is also entitled to take any required coursework (i.e. a band class) that where participatin is contingent upon compulsory attendance to those courses. If my son wanted to participate in football, he would be permitted to try out.

In any and all cases, just b/c you attend the school physically does not give you legal rights to preferential treatment. If my children were qualified by skills and had a successful tryout, they would have to be let on the team or in the activity if they would have been permitted so as a traditional student.


Lastly--the National Champion Florida Gator Football team's quarterback this past year....

Played football for my high school: Nease. He did so as a homeschool student.

In our state the law is written as such and I 100% whole heartedly agree with it.

I don't think this is any different for private schools either. Any testing of children should be at the expense of the state/school distrcict and not the parent.

In Florida when you opt to not be educated through the public school system, your costs are not subsidized. This goes for both private and homeschooled students. Private students pay a tuition which in most cases may cover testing costs that their school encounters. Homeschool parents in lieu of tuition simply have the burden of purchasing all of their materials or subsidizing their homeschooling with outside resources for whatever their established fees.

As for the taxes issue, and heaven knows, I pay a fortune in school taxes, the schools are there for you to use, just like any other public service. If you chose not to use them there are no refunds. I also can't see how a district can allow you to pick and chose the services you want to use while also properly planning activities and class sizes for the students who do attend.

While their are no refunds, as long as you register properly, it is not an issue for your student to have proper services or take any desired coursework in the public school system al a carte. It isn't like the student wakes up one week and decides they will take AP American History and then show up at the classroom door. Our districts do this all the time quite adequately. I have known quite a few parents who homeschool, but their child has taken the gifted program classes at the elementary school. Or their child needed to take Speech (which once you are over about age 3 or 4....you get for free from the county at anytime if your student has the need for it).

Or if they want to be in marching band--they have to go to band camp over the summer and take band classes.

The requirements on HOW to get into any of these offerings don't change just b/c your a homeschool student. You can't just show up anytime. At the very least, that would be bad etiquette.

 

[sha_lyn]

Does anyone else see the humor in my copy and paste of GA homeschool testing laws? Boy talk about run on sentences.

 

[castleview]

I order the test through one of several testing services. Hewitt is the one I used this year. I have used Thurber's in the past. BJU also offers a testing service, but you must use one of their approved testing administrators.
They send me all the testing material. I give the test in my home and then send it into the testing service to be scored.



I am not being snaky here. I really get the feeling you would be much happier living in a country with a socialist government. You want the government to pay for, be responsible for, and be accountable for each individual. However we live in a country that gives guarantees us certain individual rights. With these rights comes a lot of responsibility and self accountability.

I don't see how Mary is being socialist at all. Around here, kids go back and forth between public and home school. The public schools are required to test and they get the blame for low scores no matter what kind of background a child has. If a child comes into public high school from a poor home school experience, it's the public school that has to pay for the resources this child needs to catch up. So I can see why the state wants to make sure a child is being properly educated.

Forgive me for being surprised that the state trusts a parent to proctor the test. When I proctored SATs in high school, the kids were required to bring photo ID (even if it was at their own school) and if they didn't have a license, they needed to find a teacher who knew them (a parent saying "this is my kid and his name is...." wouldn't cut it). It was very similar to what Gina wrote.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No flames here. As a home schooler ITA with you.
My one and only exception would be in the case of cyber charter schools. They are actually a part of the public school systems although they often get lump together with homeschooling.

I disagree for the reasons mentioned above.

We are lucky to live in an area with a large number of home schoolers.
Because of this, my children have plenty of opportunities for sports, clubs etc.
While I feel for those who are not as lucky, I fault them for not organizing such activities. I don't feel it is the public schools responsibility to provide classes or extra curricular activities to home schoolers.

The schools are not required to pursue homeschool students or set up anything special for them. Just allow them to take advantage of opportunites. In Florida, that is if you are only registered with the county. If you school at home via a private school, you are on your own. You opted out of having anything to do with the county.

We do have a homeschool sports group that plays varsity level against the high schools, but not all sports are available.



And my favorite opportunity, my children are eligible for the same scholarship (Bright Scholars) as any other student. The only requirement removed is the mandate for a calculated GPA. The scholarship is automatic (upon appying/notifying the state requirements have been met), but certain criteria must be met...volunteer hours, course load, and SAT/ACT score.


This is why I don't understand when folks complain about homeschooling in our state. I think they make reasonable accomodation for the automony of homeschoolers, while not alienating them for being "weird". (Some moms in my homeschooling group complain. I must be living in some form of utopia b/c I don't get it when they do.)

I think it is possible for all 3 methods of education to get along and work together without beating each other up over it.

 

[castleview]

Does anyone else see the humor in my copy and paste of GA homeschool testing laws? Boy talk about run on sentences.

C'mon...they were written by a lawyer.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't see how Mary is being socialist at all. Around here, kids go back and forth between public and home school. The public schools are required to test and they get the blame for low scores no matter what kind of background a child has. If a child comes into public high school from a poor home school experience, it's the public school that has to pay for the resources this child needs to catch up. So I can see why the state wants to make sure a child is being properly educated.

Forgive me for being surprised that the state trusts a parent to proctor the test. When I proctored SATs in high school, the kids were required to bring photo ID (even if it was at their own school) and if they didn't have a license, they needed to find a teacher who knew them (a parent saying "this is my kid and his name is...." wouldn't cut it). It was very similar to what Gina wrote.

The same problem exists when students transfer from another district, another county, or another state.

That is the problem with NCLB. Students are lumped regardless of whom, when and how they were taught. If they showed up at your classroom door yesterday and today was FCAT day (in Florida)....your benefited or not by their test performance.



As far as the latter--states trust their parents to teach, don't they?

In the classroom, they don't find someone else other than the teacher to proctor, do they?

I don't recall in my testing years that ever to have happened.

Those states recognize that it is okay for the teacher to administer the test--whomever that teacher may be.


I don't consider the SAT to be in the same league as a yearly administered standardized test. And when I took the test---didn't matter if you could have a non-relative vouch for your identity. Photo id was required, period.

 

[Mary2e]

I think it is possible for all 3 methods of education to get along and work together without beating each other up over it.

I absolutely agree. You have no idea how surprised I was at some of the reactions I received here.

Children are our future. Their education is what's important. Fighting over which type of education is right is ridiculous. However, as a society, I feel it is our responsibility to ensure these children are properly educated, no matter what method of education they choose.

 

[castleview]

I disagree.

In the state of Florida, a homeschool student is overseen by the county. I must register with the county of my intent by letter within 30 days of starting a homeschool and submit an annual review by certified teacher or psychologist OR test results. I must also tell them when I stop homeschooling for any reason (move, going back to public school, going to a private school, or my child graduates).

A private school student does not do any of this. Their parent chooses to remove them from the public school system umbrella entirely.

In this state, my child is legally entitled to services provided by the county (i.e. speech pathology or any services necessary per any disabilities any of my children might have) as well as access to extra-curricular activities. The latter goes away if I opt to homeschool but register with a private school (in this state referred to as a 600 school). At that point, I am no longer overseen by the county and do not fall under their umbrella. However, I *think* that services would still be available b/c private schools cannot always facilitate them. But I can't recall how that works as we do not need services at this time.

If my child wants to be a cheerleader in high school....she must be permitted to try out. She wants to be in band, she must be given equal opportunity. She is also entitled to take any required coursework (i.e. a band class) that where participatin is contingent upon compulsory attendance to those courses. If my son wanted to participate in football, he would be permitted to try out.

In any and all cases, just b/c you attend the school physically does not give you legal rights to preferential treatment. If my children were qualified by skills and had a successful tryout, they would have to be let on the team or in the activity if they would have been permitted so as a traditional student.


Lastly--the National Champion Florida Gator Football team's quarterback this past year....

Played football for my high school: Nease. He did so as a homeschool student.

In our state the law is written as such and I 100% whole heartedly agree with it.




In Florida when you opt to not be educated through the public school system, your costs are not subsidized. This goes for both private and homeschooled students. Private students pay a tuition which in most cases may cover testing costs that their school encounters. Homeschool parents in lieu of tuition simply have the burden of purchasing all of their materials or subsidizing their homeschooling with outside resources for whatever their established fees.




While their are no refunds, as long as you register properly, it is not an issue for your student to have proper services or take any desired coursework in the public school system al a carte. It isn't like the student wakes up one week and decides they will take AP American History and then show up at the classroom door. Our districts do this all the time quite adequately. I have known quite a few parents who homeschool, but their child has taken the gifted program classes at the elementary school. Or their child needed to take Speech (which once you are over about age 3 or 4....you get for free from the county at anytime if your student has the need for it).

Or if they want to be in marching band--they have to go to band camp over the summer and take band classes.

The requirements on HOW to get into any of these offerings don't change just b/c your a homeschool student. You can't just show up anytime. At the very least, that would be bad etiquette.

Sounds like a close connection between home and school - that's great. How do they determine academic eligibility though?

 

[sha_lyn]

Castleview.....
I understand and somewhat agree with your POW about proctoring the test.
Using an independent proctor would dismiss most allegations of tampering.

However I would not want the PS system incharge due to what happened a few years ago. Our local district tried to offer testing to home schoolers. The schools could not be held accountable for the HS'ers safety while on the grounds due to their not being being enrolled in the school. For the same reason the parents were not allowed into the buildings. However the parents were not allowed to leave the grounds either.
The parents were to drop the children off at the front door, park in a parking spot and remain in their cars for the entire school day. There was the threat of security or police removing parents and children if the parents left their cars for any reason, or CPS being called to pick up the children if the parents left the grounds. The testing was taking place over a 3 day period.

Talk about a nightmare. So should I have taken DS to the testing and sat in my car with my then 4 yr old DD 7 hours a day for 3 days? During which of course she would miss her 1/2 day preschool since I would not be allowed to leave the grounds to drop her off of pick her up. It wasn't worth the hassle.

ETA...... the homechoolers had to pay for the testing

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't see how Mary is being socialist at all.

While a bit of a stretch, I think the call for 100% testing of 100% of the students by a 100% national standard....is probably what she was getting at.


In Politics, there are those for MORE govt and those for LESS govt. The views that Mary supports is clearly for much more govt oversight of the educational process, especially at a national level. (At least that was my interpretation of her posts.)


I wonder what everyone's thoughts are on schools of choice?

We have them here in our county...some are performance/visual arts, some are math/science, and there are a few others that I can't think of right now. But clearly from school to school within the same county, their approach to education for these schools of choice are going to be completely different.

I absolutely agree. You have no idea how surprised I was at some of the reactions I received here.

Children are our future. Their education is what's important. Fighting over which type of education is right is ridiculous. However, as a society, I feel it is our responsibility to ensure these children are properly educated, no matter what method of education they choose.

Don't get too excited. I was speaking more about the extra-curricular activities and such and how a choice to homeschool doesn't necessarily mean you have written off the system all together.

I do think there are other ways to measure proper education aside from a standardized test. Think of ALL the different ways you can study American History, Mathematics, Science---there are a so many different approaches.

If you've ever seen a Rainbow Resource Catologue..your head would spin about all the different offerings. They have a plethora of choices within their 3 inch thick catalogue. And it doesn't scratch the surface on all what is out their.


Someone posted earlier how a relative or friend....had nothing but a GED or high school education...or something, yet their students got into prestigious universities.

Really the only qualification to homeschool is to be able to read, have a curious mind and then take off from there.

I may not debate very well. I may not recall information very well. But I can read, I can research, I can study, I can find books at the library, and so much more.

As I stated earlier, my curriculum of choice will sometimes have my children not do well on a particular portion of the test.

Her Kindergarten test last year, she did well on reading, but not on phonics. Why? Well in the process of learning how to read--she could suddenly just read. We hadn't gotten through all of our phonics, yet. I don't know what kind of questions were on that portion of the test. But she really didn't do all that spectacular on that portion of the test. It did not surprise me in the least and I didn't need a standardized test to tell me that. (FTR, compulsory age here is 6, so K is optional and I was not required to formally educate her last year let alone test her. I was just curious.)

This year, her scores were much better on that portion as we opted to continue with phonics until we finish the series we are studying. In the meantime, her reading comprehension has jumped leaps and bounds.

I expect that for the next several years, she will ebb and flow as we pursue home education at her pace.

I don't need the county to call it to my attention that we are lacking in areas via a test. We aren't lacking. We have just taken the trail differently.

As I said before, it all comes out in the wash.

For the most part, parents want the best for their kids. If they are worth their parenting certification , they will realize if something isn't working and do something different. And they should also realize when the situation isn't working at all (as the OP should realize even if it is just a temporary problem).

My daughter for a little while had begged to go to regular school.

Turns out--all she wanted to do was ride the bus. Well, I had to bust her bubble that regardless of where she was educated (home, public or private)--there was no bus. Our neighborhood doesn't bus until high school. I also let her know that most likely by then, the bus would be the last thing she would want to ride.

 

[castleview]

I think it is possible for all 3 methods of education to get along and work together without beating each other up over it.

That's an excellent point! Unfortunately, there are too many parents who need to trash another parents decision so they can feel better about themselves.

A friend of mine told me that her neighbors don't like her because she put her kid in a Catholic school. I love this girl dearly, but she tells everyone "My son is in Catholic school because the public school here is a dump." Hello? You just said that to people who put their kids in that public school!

 

[slmcn66]

We had a situation in CT when a homeschooler wanted to play on the PS basketball team but wasn't allowed to. I tend to agree with this because she chose to not be a part of the school, so why should she be able to play for the school's basketball team? Plus, I think it would open a can of worms. What if a private/parchocial school student wasn't good enough to make his school team? Should he be able to now play on the public school team because his family pays taxes?

That is certainly one view. Think about the following scenario. Each child that is homeschooled is one less in the classroom which may ease the burden on the teacher as well to the district. Ramp it up a bit: what if the child being homeschooled had been a distraction in the classroom and required regular evaluations by school professionals? Now the system as well as the classroom environment benefit. What if the child has a medical condition that makes it difficult to attend school for the required time or missed school regularly as a result of DR.'s appt.s? The same child then has to spend precious afterschool hours doing makeup work. What if the child is gifted and the district is unable to meet their needs and their parents cannot afford to send them to a private school? I am sure there are numerous other scenarios.

IMO it is very shallow not to consider allowing homeschool children to participate in public school activities. Not only do the hs children pay the price, but so do the children in their neighborhood, town, community by being denied a safe opportunity to interact.

At the very least, public schools should be required to make their curriculum resources available to families wishing to homeschool.