Home rental issue - what to do?

[chiefmickeymouse]

We are a military family renting a home from another military family that lives out of the state. When we looked at the house, there appeared to be something wrong with the tile in the kitchen and downstairs area. The neighbor who showed us the house ( a close friend who we later learned installed the tile) told us that the kids who had lived here "roughhoused" and broke some tiles which they replaced.

As soon as we moved in there were problems with the floor. The grout was coming up in chunks. A few days later the first tile broke. Six are broken now. We have lived here for five months. We notified the owner four months ago, who asked if we would get an estimate as they are far away. We got one, she didn't like it, we got another one (about the same). We took the time to go to two stores and take pictures of tile samples to send them.

Now they are calling us wanting us to do the demolition work (we said no, we don't have the time or want to get that involved). Now they want the same neighbor to demo and redo the floor. The problem is, the man who did the estimate said that the tile failed because it was installed over vinyl with no "magic board" in between. The man who installed the tile says it's the subfloor. I don't really care, I just want it fixed!

My real issue is the time involved. The neighbor is an older guy, works alone, so I can see this taking A LONG TIME while we have no kitchen, laundry, access to the deck or garage. We have been nice, nice, nice but I'm getting fed up. Any words of wisdom from the DIS-ers?

Sorry so long!

 

[LilyWDW]

We are a military family renting a home from another military family that lives out of the state. When we looked at the house, there appeared to be something wrong with the tile in the kitchen and downstairs area. The neighbor who showed us the house ( a close friend who we later learned installed the tile) told us that the kids who had lived here "roughhoused" and broke some tiles which they replaced.

As soon as we moved in there were problems with the floor. The grout was coming up in chunks. A few days later the first tile broke. Six are broken now. We have lived here for five months. We notified the owner four months ago, who asked if we would get an estimate as they are far away. We got one, she didn't like it, we got another one (about the same). We took the time to go to two stores and take pictures of tile samples to send them.

Now they are calling us wanting us to do the demolition work (we said no, we don't have the time or want to get that involved). Now they want the same neighbor to demo and redo the floor. The problem is, the man who did the estimate said that the tile failed because it was installed over vinyl with no "magic board" in between. The man who installed the tile says it's the subfloor. I don't really care, I just want it fixed!

My real issue is the time involved. The neighbor is an older guy, works alone, so I can see this taking A LONG TIME while we have no kitchen, laundry, access to the deck or garage. We have been nice, nice, nice but I'm getting fed up. Any words of wisdom from the DIS-ers?

Sorry so long!

Do you have a rental agreement? Does it state anything that could be used in this situation (how issues will be resolved, who will pay for it, ect)?

 

[IUTBAM]

What does your lease say about repairs?

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

All the lease says is that if we break it we have to fix it. That's it. I haven't ever had a lease that said much more than that. I know that laws vary from state to state about fixing things. Heat, water, electric etc. must be fixed within a specified time, but something like this...I don't know. It's not required to make it habitable. I do believe that they intend to fix it...eventually. I get that they are trying to save money, but my husband thinks we should be compensated for the amount of time the property isn't habitable (such as if the neighbor spends a week ripping the floor out). Any opinions? I feel like I'm being a marshmallow here. If this wasn't another military couple I would be screaming my head off by now.

 

[tlbwriter]

South Carolina official landlord and tenant laws

South Carolina tenant's rights in more understandable form

The law specifies that floors are something that must be kept in good repair. It sounds like you can notify the landlord of the problem and they have 14 days to correct it, and if they don't, you can move out. However, if you don't want to move out, that doesn't solve your problem. It sounds like you do not have the right to make the repairs on your own or pay for them to be done and then deduct that amount from your rent unless your landlord agrees to this.

If I were in your shoes, I'd tell the landlord:

a. An expert told you the floor failed because it was done incorrectly
b. You cannot live for an extended period of time without a kitchen, laundry room, etc.
c. You have the legal right to end your lease if the floor is not fixed within 14 days, but you will not act on that right as long as the landlord is trying to get the floor fixed in a timely manner

 

[01spirit750]

So if the neighbor fixes it again and does it the same way, it will just fail again.

Tile must be installed over a hard / rigid surface. It sound like the neighbor has no idea what he is doing (if he did install it over the vinyl flooring)

Professional tile installers put down a 3/4" thick concrete morter bed. They do have concrete backer board at the DIY stores for the average home owner. The best is the 1/2" backer board, but they also have 1/4" wonder board which is not as good.

When we moved into our house we had the same problem with the entry way tile. They were breaking and coming up. The previous owner had installed the tile right to the wood subfloor.

My guess is that the quotes you got were for installing the tile correctly (over a morter bed). I might suggest getting an estimate on having a new vinyl floor installed. It might be cheaper then tile.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

Thanks to everyone for being so helpful. That's a good idea about the vinyl. I'd be happy with anything that isn't cracking at this point. THe neighbor is coming over this evening to look at it. This has been such a mess. I'll fill you all in on what happens.

 

[cvjw]

Is the area with the tile over a basement? We had the same issues when we moved into our current house. The whole kitchen area was tiled, and the grout was coming up in big chunks. Come to find out that the tile was installed properly, but the sub floor wasn't perfectly level, so the tiles were constantly moving around. We ended up having all of the tile taken up, and hardwoods installed. All of the contractors that we had look at our problem told us the same thing - some places tile just won't work. We have had zero problems with our hard woods in 10 years.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

no, it's not over a basement...but the subfloor could be it I guess. I hate to see the home owners retile only to have it fail again. I guess it isn't up to us, though. I am just SO GLAD we didn't buy this house, because we thought about it. Hopefully something gets done soon. I don't even want to clean the floor because there seems to be no point. It's getting depressing, but I guess at least we have a place to live!

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

Oh and by the way I love, love, love all you lovely Disboarders for trying to help!

 

[seashoreCM]

The owner should be arranging for and paying for the repairs. Get it documented, preferably witnessed, as quickly as possible so the owner can't say you did the damage.

Only after applying to and getting permission from the town or city may you deduct from the rent. SOme dities don't have such a program.

A walkthrough with both landlord and tenant (or persons representing them presnet) should be done both at the start and end of the rental with any observed problems documented.

 

[HeatherFeather]

Hugs to you...I feel your pain because we are also a military family renting from another military family. We also own a house in SC which we in turn rent to ANOTHER military family. We have been fortunate so far that the owner of the home we are in is pretty laid back about having us just have repairs done as needed and then deducting them from the rent.

Having a usable floor is a BIG deal. If they want to go with this person who did it previously that is pretty much up to them. Hopefully, it will at least last until you are gone. I would really be pushing for them to go ahead and resolve this issue.

The house we rent out in SC is done thru a property management company and so any repairs are handled through them and we really don't even know until we get a lesser rent amount for the month. I think this is much more fair to the tenants so that are able to have things fixed quickly as needed. It costs us more than if we rented it ourselves but it is worth it to not have to deal with this stuff and know the tenants are being taken care of.

 

[Praying Colonel]

Call the Fort Jackson Legal Assistance Office. Schedule an appointment with a Legal Assistance attorney who can give you free legal advice and contact the landlord on your behalf to resolve the problem.

If that doesn't work, you may wish to contact the Fort Jackson Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board, which hears complaints that landlords are treating Soldiers and their families unfairly. If the AFDCB believes the landlord is not acting properly and the landlord refuses to take corrective measures, the AFDCB can recommend to the Command General that the landlord be placed off limits to military, which carries a lot of weight in a military community. The Provost Marshal is usually the chairman of the AFDCB, so you can contact the Jackson Provost Marshal to start the AFDCB process.

 

[Mrs.Malone]

I could have written your post word for word several years ago! Amazing. I almost thought maybe this was an old thread I had written myself that someone had dug up.

We had the exact same issue, and the cause was the same (improper surface beneath the tile). The tile was fairly new but grout was coming up everywhere and tiles were cracking. The owners dragged their feet forever. We had to avoid areas of the floor when we walked through. I called and called but nothing was done. Finally my toddler fell and cut his leg on the sharp edge of a broken tile. I called the owner on the way to the ER, with DS screaming in the background. Someone was out fixing the floor the next day!

Talk to your military housing office. They will let you know what to do. This IS a safety issue and it must be fixed, and SOON. Document all your calls/emails. Good luck.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

So here is the update. The owner's wife called last night and said there was a miscommunication and that they were going to have Home Depot install a flooring called Allure which is supposed to do well over difficult surfaces. Apparently there was an argument between them and the neighbor (who installed the floors) and they were attempting to keep us from knowing about it because he is our next door neighbor. I guess it has just occurred to them that he knew there was a problem all along and didn't disclose it to them. He installed it for the previous owners. I figured this one out right away, but didn't want to get involved since he is their friend.

Meanwhile, the neighbor has been emailing me to schedule a time to come look at the floors, not sure why. I think the whole thing is pretty shady since apparently EVERYONE but us knew there was a problem and when we asked directly about it, it was brushed aside. It's particularly annoying since we are awesome tenants and have taken wonderful care of their large and very landscaped yard.

To everyone who has answered me, thank you so much for all of your helpful and supportive advice. I have often seen things get mean on the DIS so I was hesitant about posting.

Praying Colonel, I've read a lot of your posts and you're always a positive voice. We know about the military support options available to us, but are attempting to keep things civil. If it gets too bad, we will exercise our options. I appreciate your advice though, because a lot of younger military families might not know their options.

We will see what tomorrow brings. If this is my worst complaint, I guess I'm pretty blessed!

 

[Evi]

most likely the tile was put directly on plywood subflooring. I've seen this alot when we were buying our house. Regardless of who does the work you want them to take out the plywood and replace it with backerboard and if cracking is still a concern there is a sheeting thats supposed to prevent tiles from moving and cracking the thinset and mortar. Since its not your home I'd look for the least expensive tile that is decent at a store like home depot. As long as it stays within the char of the home. I really don't think this is your responsability but if they are close friends it may be worth trying to figure out it should only be a 2-3 day process 1 day demo and installation of backer board. 1 day to lay the tiles and 1 day to mortar.

Honestly it is there responsability. You may want to see if the base can recomend a contractor to do the work.

 

[rparmfamily]

I'm glad they are just going to go thru Home Depot. I hope they are efficient.

We too are a military family who rent our home in FL to another military family. It's a tough world with the PCSing,etc!

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

The tile was put down on top of vinyl. We pulled a tile up to see what was underneath. It was already loose anyway. They have now asked us to pick the tile up and bring it to the house to save the delivery fee. I'm going to let my husband decide on this one. I already get to miss work to hang around with the installers! Have a great day everyone!