Hollywood & Vine and Le Cellier and Gratuity

[mskayjay]

"So, I ask the OP: If you KNEW you couldn't afford to go out to eat in a table service restaurant, why did you do so in the first place????? There are plenty of CS places to eat in WDW. "

The person COULD afford to eat at the restaurant. He/she paid for it/received it as part of their dining/vacation plan just as we all do. Tipping is not a required expense. If a table stiffs you on a tip, you just record it that way and there is no tip to split. Unless WDW has some practice I've never heard of????? Generally speaking, you tally your tips for your shift, X amount goes to bar, X amount to bus, X amount to kitchen/back staff if used. Thats it. What you have to give to people isn't based on what you should get paid according to a tip suggestion sheet. It is based on what you take in over the course of your shift.

 

[TDC Nala]

There is one club we go to in Palm Beach Gardens that upcharges all of their items by 18% and tacks that cost on to each thing. So for example, when I order a beer, Tom the waiter tells me my drink is $5 including the 18% gratuity. I think an 18% tip for reaching over to the cooler, grabbing and pouring me a cold one is nuts but that is how they do it.

What really bugs me is that if I am at a bar and order a cocktail, I will leave the bartender a few dollars per round as a tip. If I am at WDW, there is already a higher than average markup on liquor and now if you are at a table they want you to tip 18-20% more for the cocktail.

That is now how it is done for me and all other DDE members - 18% added automatically at table service and bars.

I don't really mind it. If I get lousy service I'll take it up with the manager - they have to get one to approve the discount anyway.

Like most tipping threads, this is starting to back up on itself and become an argument about tipping customs. I won't close it yet but we need to stay on topic about WDW gratuities.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Could you post the source where you read this?

Oh, don't you remember that thread where somebody searched salary.com or a similar site for "servers" in Orlando - and got a result of an average $76,000 per year... never mind that the program used considered servers to be computer-industry careers, NOT waiters and waitresses?

So, now, with inflation (although really, I didn't think inflation has been that bad this year) apparently the same position that was presumed to earn $76,000 just a few months ago, has now increased in average pay range by 25% to 100%?

Now, using a different figure in this thread - average tips of $18 an hour - a server would need to work between 81 and 155 hours a week to gross that earnings range. There are only 168 hours in a week; and no table service restaurants are open long enough hours without overlapping each other that a server could work at four, five, eight different places, to reach 155 hours a week.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I also think listing a "suggested tip" on the bottom of a receipt is totally tacky.

I'm not frustrated with you, because you're not the only person who feels that way, so forgive the shouting: THEN TAKE IT UP WITH DISNEY! WRITE TO THEM! CALL THEM! COMPLAIN TO THE RESTAURANT MANAGERS! COMPLAIN TO GUEST RELATIONS! TELL THEM YOU THINK IT'S TACKY!!!!

 

[kaytieeldr]

I waitressed for years in The Hamptons and we never, ever, ever would dream of telling someone how much to tip us

To the best of my knowledge, no server is telling any diner how much to tip.

That being said, I do not believe that a buffet service should be tipped out like a table service meal or anywhere close to it.

Then don't.

What you have to give to people isn't based on what you should get paid according to a tip suggestion sheet. It is based on what you take in over the course of your shift.

What gets reported to the IRS is the server's sales, and what the employer is required to withhold is 8% of those sales - whether the diner tips or not.

 

[perla75]

Oh, don't you remember that thread where somebody searched salary.com or a similar site for "servers" in Orlando - and got a result of an average $76,000 per year... never mind that the program used considered servers to be computer-industry careers, NOT waiters and waitresses?

So, now, with inflation (although really, I didn't think inflation has been that bad this year) apparently the same position that was presumed to earn $76,000 just a few months ago, has now increased in average pay range by 25% to 100%?

Now, using a different figure in this thread - average tips of $18 an hour - a server would need to work between 81 and 155 hours a week to gross that earnings range. There are only 168 hours in a week; and no table service restaurants are open long enough hours without overlapping each other that a server could work at four, five, eight different places, to reach 155 hours a week.

Yes, I do remember that silly thread I also remember on that thread that a Disney server came on and said that most WDW servers are actually only part-time workers.

 

[perla75]

I also think listing a "suggested tip" on the bottom of a receipt is totally tacky.

May seem tacky, but this actually serves a purpose. WDW gets a ton of international guests. Tipping for tipped positions (yes, they are called tipped positions for a reason) in the US is a very different system than it is in other countries. Lots of international guests are not up to par with standard tipping amounts, so it is very helpful for them to have a guide.

 

[sjaakie]

May seem tacky, but this actually serves a purpose. WDW gets a ton of international guests. Tipping for tipped positions (yes, they are called tipped positions for a reason) in the US is a very different system than it is in other countries. Lots of international guests are not up to par with standard tipping amounts, so it is very helpful for them to have a guide.

Foreigner guests do know about tipping but the most of us refuse to support a system that keeps slavery wages alive.

Get rid of this ridiculous system its so medival.

For the ones that mean others have no right to eat out if they can’t pay the tip pray that you don’t get in the same circumstances.
No one has the right to write such horrible things.

 

[Nancyg56]

Foreigner guests do know about tipping but the most of us refuse to support a system that keeps slavery wages alive.

Get rid of this ridiculous system its so medival.

I am not trying to single you out but this si the reason that I found people used when they did not want to tip. I don;t believe in the system, slave wages not my thing, so I am not going to leave you a tip....you can work for me for free.

As to the tip cards, I think that Disney was trying to come up with a way to make sure that customers knew that the tip was no longer included in the DDP. The servers cannot win with this one, some people are offended some ignore them and some use them but then complain it is tacky. I think that if after a year it seems that the servers are not getting a decent return for their labor Disney may make a mandatory gratuity for those who choose to purchase the DDP. That will take the tackyness out of the entire process, it will just be added onto the bill.

 

[sjaakie]

I am not trying to single you out but this si the reason that I found people used when they did not want to tip. I don;t believe in the system, slave wages not my thing, so I am not going to leave you a tip....you can work for me for free.

As to the tip cards, I think that Disney was trying to come up with a way to make sure that customers knew that the tip was no longer included in the DDP. The servers cannot win with this one, some people are offended some ignore them and some use them but then complain it is tacky. I think that if after a year it seems that the servers are not getting a decent return for their labor Disney may make a mandatory gratuity for those who choose to purchase the DDP. That will take the tackyness out of the entire process, it will just be added onto the bill.

I do tip and in Europe I do tip very well. Every day because we own a company that depends on the good will of workers every single day.

The whole tipping system ,and not alone in Disney ,has become a system of headache and greed.

Quote from a server on another threat here in the Dis:

By tipping, you are paying for service, you are not "leaving a bonus gift". Not tipping appropriately is like deciding not to pay the guy mowing your lawn. If you do not tip, you are stealing, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Villains_Rock]

As I said, I did not have $20 to give as a tip. Secondly, this is a serve yourself buffet and all she did was bring us drinks ONCE!

I would have a hard time even giving her $7 if all she did was bring you your drinks. I think thats a mighty nice gift for carrying 4 cups!!

I believe in tipping for the service you receive...that is why our society tips. The word tip actually was TIPS - To Insure Proper Service. If you do not get proper service (which it sounds like you did not), then it is solely your right to not leave a large tip. Maybe she will do more for the next table down the road and actually clear a plate or two.

Now...as far as you not having enough money to tip...I agree with the other posters. You should have been aware that tipping was not included on the plan, as I have read it everywhere on Disney's information (as well on here on the DIS). Maybe you should take some of the responsibility and admit that you did not budget properly to arrive prepared.

 

[AJKMOM]

The suggested amounts on the bottom of the bills are 18 and 20 %. 20% if you get good service, 18% is the norm.

Where I am from, 15% is the norm. 15% has been the norm for about 30 years now. The way the wait staff gets more money is because the restaurant prices have increased over the years. I dont think the tip % should increase as well...especially at Disney where everything is overpriced to begin with.

The original poster should not feel guilty. I recently read that Disney wait staff make between $100 - $140 THOUSAND per year.

I seriously doubt any waitstaff at Disney makes over $100,000 a year. They make less than minimum wage, plus tips. Disney is notorious for paying low wages to everyone except the upper level management.

 

[Steelersfan]

Ok. I have posted about tips many times and will do it again.

First, I read a few people saying, "don't punish the server for a decision by the company." This is just an incorrect statement. The company did not just decide one day to do this. It was voted and passed by the UNION. Now, I know that there are other factions in the servers union that outnumbered them, but that's the downside of unions.

Our teacher's union, for example, voted to eliminate spousal medical coverage in our last contract. The people who were ready to retire were furious and felt "sold out" by the rest of the membership. They basically had to stay and work because they couldn't afford the coverage until the school district realized that it was cheaper to pay the coverage and hire someone new at half the salary then to keep the people working. The point is that our membership is full of people in their 20's who really don't care about retirement and took more money. I'm a little older than that and would have liked to see the coverage stay, but also understood their point. Why should a 25 year old pass on extra money when there is a chance national health care or something may be in place when they retire in 35 years?

It is the same here. The servers allowed this to happen. Plus, we don't know what they received in return for the loss of the tips. Was their wage increased? Did they get a better vacation or medical package? We just don't know.

Now to the idea of these folks deserving an 18% tip every time... ridiculous. To me it sounds like that waitress at Play N Dine didn't work very hard. She only filled the drinks once (at a buffet yet!) I can guarantee you there are people working 100 times that hard at Denny's as I type this who will get a $2.00 tip even if someone does give the 15%.

What I plan to do the next trip is tip on a basic 15% at sit-downs, 10% at buffets, but will vary based on service. If the service stinks, I WILL NOT feel compelled to meet the "suggested amount." If it is great, I will go over the 10-15% happily.

I don't criticize this poster at all for tipping what their family can afford. You can also trust me that if I encounter a server with this kind of attitude I will either talk to a manager before I leave, or write a nasty letter to headquarters with the date, restaurant and server's name when I get home, or both.

People pay thousands of dollars to attend WDW and have the right to expect to be treated respectfully. It sounds like these servers make a pretty good living if they average 10-20 percent on these very expensive meals. Just to argue, let's say a server works at a buffet and has 5 tables at a time. Let's also assume that the average is 3 people at a table with an approx 75 dollar bill per meal. Let's also assume that they only average 10% per bill.

That comes to over $35 per hour just to wait tables. This is a lowball estimate too considering that for every table of two there is a loaded table of eight and most people tip more that 10%. Considering this, I doubt this server's family was starving.

Most jobs I know that require people to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for a college degree don't make that much per hour with the benefits of Disney employees. Assuming an 8 hour day, they are making a KILLING! To boot, I didn't even figure in an hourly dollar amount which I'm sure they get.

Having said all this, I do hate the policy of tipping myself. I liked it much better when it was included. As long as the restaurants are packed and people are signing up to be servers, they won't change it. It sounds to me like these servers either have to hustle a little more and stop acting like these tips are their birthright or go work at McDonalds and see how good they have it.

Of course this is just one man's opinion!

 

[mskayjay]

I'm not frustrated with you, because you're not the only person who feels that way, so forgive the shouting: THEN TAKE IT UP WITH DISNEY! WRITE TO THEM! CALL THEM! COMPLAIN TO THE RESTAURANT MANAGERS! COMPLAIN TO GUEST RELATIONS! TELL THEM YOU THINK IT'S TACKY!!!!

Katie are you screaming at me!!!! No offense taken.

I do give feedback when asked or when the situation allows for it. Again, we have a life philosophy that for every one complaint we make we make two positive comments to whomever so believe me, when the chance comes up, I will let WDW know how I feel. And yes, I did email them about that phone bill thing! lol

As far as the second place you quoted me, I was responding to the fact that in several posts, people have mentioned that servers literally point to the info with the amount of tip recommended and that in essence to me is telling someone what to leave as a tip.

 

[Microcell]

It is not the OP's responsibility to feed or care for the waitress and her three kids!

That was rude and uncalled for!

The waitress works that job by choice, and with that choice should come the knowledge that some people will under tip, and some people will overtip. Not only does it balance out, but I am sure that it probably goes in favor of over tipping more often than under tipping.

I was a waitress in college (and college students do not tip well) and found that to be the case. It may have changed since I was in college, but all that I was required to claim as Allocated Tips was 8% and when I have bad service that is all I tip!

From Websters.com-

Gratuity:

1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand.

That about says it all!

 

[mom2my3kids]

I am going to be a good girl and not get into another tipping debate.. Gosh its hard being a server and not saying anything..

 

[perla75]

Foreigner guests do know about tipping but the most of us refuse to support a system that keeps slavery wages alive.

Get rid of this ridiculous system its so medival.

For the ones that mean others have no right to eat out if they can’t pay the tip pray that you don’t get in the same circumstances.
No one has the right to write such horrible things.

Are you really generalizing every foreign guest?? So, every single person from a different country not only knows how the US tipping system works, but they also know what the current standard is in WDW? Wow, you are quite a knowledgeable person to know that... Sorry to burst your bubble, but WDW actually puts these things in place for a reason, not to waste paper.

and why would you ask ME to get rid of it? Am I in charge of this system?
I didn't say I agree with the system nor that I disagree with it, but this is currently how it works and therefore I am respectful enough to follow the customs of a community when I enter it, just as I would be respectful enough to follow the customs of your country if I traveled there. but to take it out on the server who did NOT make these rules is not only tacky & dishonest, but just plain classless and people who do that should be ashamed of themselves .

and there is nothing horrible about what I said. Just to educate you on this country, dining out is considered a luxury-those who can afford it do so. Those who can't afford it, don't. I certainly cannot afford to dine out that often. I can't afford a fancy car, can only afford to go to WDW every 2 years. Our next trip we are able to afford a little less and therefore we are staying at a Value resort and sticking to CS our entire trip. Is that horrible that I cannot afford those things? Well, yes I guess....but that's reality. I go when I can afford it & I go with honesty, budgeting in the tip.

If you were SO knowledgeable about the tipping system in this country, you would know that in our country, it is actually a service charge you are paying, not a "tip" in the sense of the word. why do they continue to call it a tip? Who knows? No, it's not currently illegal to stiff your waiter, but by doing so just because you don't like the system is essentially robbing the waiter of what he just worked hard to earn.

Are you comfortable with the fact that by stiffing a waiter in the US, you just literally made him pay for the service he gave you? What an aweful way to be...

 

[caroline1851]

Granted, i think you do need to budget in tips as part of your vacation costs because almost always you should leave something, but.........i would never leave 18% at a buffet where all the person is doing is bringing you drinks. 10% is sufficient imo. 15% is sufficient for ts where the service is average and imo, 18-20% is sufficient for outstanding service.

 

[mom2my3kids]

Did you know those "food runners" (in most cases) are servers that are near the line when your food comes up. The kitchen sends your food out ASAP so it doesn't get nasty under the heat lamps. The guy that drops off your food may be a server from the section in the back. Meanwhile your server is getting his table some refills on drinks. When you work in a busy restaurant it's uncommon to get your own tables food to take out each time. That's why they call it teamwork!

Yep, we do this all the time at IHOP. If the cooks yell someones food is up and they are at a table or busy getting drinks, we help out each other and run the food. We say Hot Food First, I always tell the table your server will be right back to check on you. Its teamwork, I would rather have another server run my food if I was busy getting drinks or taking a order then my food sitting in the window getting cold..

 

[sjaakie]

Are you really generalizing every foreign guest?? So, every single person from a different country not only knows how the US tipping system works, but they also know what the current standard is in WDW? Wow, you are quite a knowledgeable person to know that... Sorry to burst your bubble, but WDW actually puts these things in place for a reason, not to waste paper.

and why would you ask ME to get rid of it? Am I in charge of this system?
I didn't say I agree with the system nor that I disagree with it, but this is currently how it works and therefore I am respectful enough to follow the customs of a community when I enter it, just as I would be respectful enough to follow the customs of your country if I traveled there. but to take it out on the server who did NOT make these rules is not only tacky & dishonest, but just plain classless and people who do that should be ashamed of themselves .

and there is nothing horrible about what I said. Just to educate you on this country, dining out is considered a luxury-those who can afford it do so. Those who can't afford it, don't. I certainly cannot afford to dine out that often. I can't afford a fancy car, can only afford to go to WDW every 2 years. Our next trip we are able to afford a little less and therefore we are staying at a Value resort and sticking to CS our entire trip. Is that horrible that I cannot afford those things? Well, yes I guess....but that's reality. I go when I can afford it & I go with honesty, budgeting in the tip.

If you were SO knowledgeable about the tipping system in this country, you would know that in our country, it is actually a service charge you are paying, not a "tip" in the sense of the word. why do they continue to call it a tip? Who knows? No, it's not currently illegal to stiff your waiter, but by doing so just because you don't like the system is essentially robbing the waiter of what he just worked hard to earn.

Are you comfortable with the fact that by stiffing a waiter in the US, you just literally made him pay for the service he gave you? What an aweful way to be...

I read this post over tipping for more than a year so I’m very aware that its a very hot and heated item. The post always become very hateful and have to be closed.


That fact only should say enough about the whole system. Nobody likes it, so get rid of it and pay everyone a normal fee so they won't have to depend on the charity of the guests and certainly not accuse guests of "stealing"

And why must we pay a waiter extra fore doing his job?
He/she knew what the fee would be when they got hired.

I’m on several boards that concern vacation in the USA and many, many people think so about the tipping system.
As tourisme is booming this will only become a greater problem.

Fore the rest I was only speaking in general terms so sorry if I offended you.