Hillary Supporters unite part 2; no bashing please

[chobie]

Keep trying to convince yourself of that Chobie, but since that statement doesn’t describe me or my thought process, it will never ring true.



I’ve never not tolerated McCain bashing on this thread. How can I not tolerate a topic that’s not really discussed? As I stated earlier, if one of the HS want to bring up the issues on McCain while we discuss and sort out who we are all voting for, I’m totally fine with that and would like to hear more about him from people other than Republicans. And don’t even go back to that one post by Peter Pan; that was a bash post with no intentions of discussing issues or offering insight to the candidate.

I think our conversation is finished.

Yes, Peterpirate's post was a bash post of McCain and you were incensed by him bashing McCain.

And you did change what issues were important to you -at least on one. Which makes me wonder how many other issues you are doing this on. But just for fun, the next time you research how Obama stands on an issue that is important to you, look to see where Hillary stood on the issue. Then ask yourself if Hillary got the nomination could you still vote for her knowing more about her stances on issues than you did before.


If you wish to no longer converse with me, I would suggest you refrain from replying to my posts.

 

[DISUNC]

Very funny! LOL

The recent Supreme Court decisions kind of woke me up. The court is so closely divided - and the liberal minded justices are closer to retirement than those young, Bush-appointed neo-conservative judges are!

I can't have on my conscience that I enabled McCain and his party to choose future justices.

But I am by no means happy about it!

I still feel Hillary would have made a much better President than Obama or McCain........

Now - start thinking about those 10 days in Saratoga! I've been starting to think about our upcoming 10 days at the Boardwalk!!!

It might be our last vacation the way the economy has been tanking lately!!!

Sadly that my line of thinking too

 

[Dolce27]

Wow. I guess that I hit a nerve. Not surprising. The OS have shown to have an inability to accept criticism of Obama without becoming overly defensive. You won’t discuss issues and your reasons against those criticisms, you just deflect the issues by bashing those who have problems with those issues.

Take a bit of your own advise, put me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say.

Here’s the deal: I don’t support Obama. I’ve posted my reasons for not supporting Obama (and those reasons continue to grow as I continue to learn more about the man). Most of them came with links. Do the research. But then again, I’ve noticed that you guys have selective reading.

Here’s another thing. During the primary I made exactly two appearances on the Obama thread. Once when I was still trying to decided if I wanted to vote for Obama or Clinton as I had decided to vote Democratic this election and didn’t know much about either candidate at that point. I’m voting on two key issues that I honestly feel will make a difference to this country if those issues are straightened out (oh, and neither one of those issues are abortion). I asked a legitimate, non-bashing (as I had no reason to bash Obama at that time) question and was totally ignored for it. The second time I went over one day after several vicious attacks on this HS thread made by the OS and I made a snarky comment over there and then left.
I didn’t continually go over and bash and insult you guys personally just because I disagreed with the bashing you were doing on Hillary yet you are personally over here bashing me for what I’ve posted about Obama.

Grow up.

I stand by my comment that you guys just want to bash by your continuation of dragging this on.
And talk about high horse? Look at yourself in the mirror.

 

[Dolce27]

...so why come here?????

Typical controling OS'er! You want everyone to think like you, associate with people just like you. PLEASE GROW UP!

If I or anybody wants to bash Obama I & EVERYBODY ELSE CAN. Obama

is certainly worth bashing! Just because you have blinders on doesn't mean everyone else does.
If I want to 'Cozy' with a Conservative I can. And from experience some of them are very cozy!

You certainly like to lump people into catagories!

SO FAR WE STILL LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY & CAN SAY WHAT WE WANT.
If you dont like it TOUGH!

"Emotional Harship"! Are you Flippen kidding?????

If OS were so concerned with "Party Unity" they sure have a funny way of going about it!

It would be the MATURE thing to reply to my POST if you have something to say to me or about me, using my name in the context of your major rant, when I wasnt even involved in your conversation is childish.

The post I just made wound up higher - when are they going to fix this posting order?

But I find it funny that we both told them to 'Grow Up'.
I mean, it's true - they do need to - but it's funny that we were both posting it at the same time.

 

[KikiFan]

You are SO FUNNY! I AM IN HYSTERICS!

Believe me, we've all noticed that you're hysterical. It's obvious.

 

["Got Disney"]

not sure where this post will end up once I push "Send" figured the boards would be fixed already

Anyway to the OS that want to come in here ....you need to remember that WE ARE ALL STILL HILLARY SUPPORTERS!....we are Hillary supporters that will vote for Obama, will vote for McCain will write in Hillary's name or not vote at all...but we are still Hillary supporters coming into the Hillary thread. WE all have been together for over a year and we are are still in much agreement about what we were in agreement before...that Obama is not our favorite guy.....

That will not change even for the ones in here that have or will decide to vote for him. WE all have a bond in here and that will not be broken just because some go into the conservative thread or some go into the Obama thread. WE will be in here till the end of the election bouncing things off of each other. Some good and some bad. Just because Hillary is backing Obama does not mean that we will follow suit with her.

If Hillary told me to jump off a bridge ...I would not do it. I was voting for her...for reasons that I was not voting for Obama. There issues may be much the same but it is not the issues that I have problems with...it is the man.

I did not have a problem with who Hillary is. As for me with McCain I am more comfortable with him talking to other Countries than Obama...he scares me on what he may say out of lack of diplomacy. I was not and am not afraid of what Hillary would say. If Hillary had won the Nod I would not come into the OT and try to use tactics to get you to vote for her because Obama TOLD YOU TOO....do you know how koolaid that sounds

I will not vote what you, or anyone else tells me to vote...not even my DH of 28 years. I can remember years ago no one dare ask anyone who they were voting for because it was as personal a thing as talking to God is personal to each of us. It was a no no to ask.

let me ask you this...If Hillary had won would you all in the OT all of a sudden stop chatting about Obama and come in here and be our bestest friends ever....I think not you would all still be meeting in the OT talking about where you were all going to go from there.

 

[Dolce27]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";25934667]not sure where this post will end up once I push "Send" figured the boards would be fixed already

Anyway to the OS that want to come in here ....you need to remember that WE ARE ALL STILL HILLARY SUPPORTERS!....we are Hillary supporters that will vote for Obama, will vote for McCain will write in Hillary's name or not vote at all...but we are still Hillary supporters coming into the Hillary thread. WE all have been together for over a year and we are are still in much agreement about what we were in agreement before...that Obama is not our favorite guy.....

That will not change even for the ones in here that have or will decide to vote for him. WE all have a bond in here and that will not be broken just because some go into the conservative thread or some go into the Obama thread. WE will be in here till the end of the election bouncing things off of each other. Some good and some bad. Just because Hillary is backing Obama does not mean that we will follow suit with her.

If Hillary told me to jump off a bridge ...I would not do it. I was voting for her...for reasons that I was not voting for Obama. There issues may be much the same but it is not the issues that I have problems with...it is the man.

I did not have a problem with who Hillary is. As for me with McCain I am more comfortable with him talking to other Countries than Obama...he scares me on what he may say out of lack of diplomacy. I was not and am not afraid of what Hillary would say. If Hillary had won the Nod I would not come into the OT and try to use tactics to get you to vote for her because Obama TOLD YOU TOO....do you know how koolaid that sounds

I will not vote what you, or anyone else tells me to vote...not even my DH of 28 years. I can remember years ago no one dare ask anyone who they were voting for because it was as personal a thing as talking to God is personal to each of us. It was a no no to ask.

let me ask you this...If Hillary had won would you all in the OT all of a sudden stop chatting about Obama and come in here and be our bestest friends ever....I think not you would all still be meeting in the OT talking about where you were all going to go from there.[/QUOTE]



Good post.

If I didn't like Obama before the primary ended, why the heck would I suddenly change my view just because he won the primary?

 

[KathyTX]

Arguments, personal attacks, insults toward other posters, and general rudeness are not permitted here.

Discuss your ideas, but keep that discussion respectful.

Fighting, insulting, attacking and other angry or rude behavior can result in the loss of your ability to participate here and in the thread being locked or deleted.

If there's an inappropriate post, please report it to the moderators and DO NOT QUOTE THAT POST. Quoting an inappropriate post just makes clean up more difficult and increases the odds that the entire thread will be locked or deleted.

Carry on, but discuss your topic rather than each other. ::cop:

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

This is unacceptable behavior. I won't be voting for the guy, but I'll deal with it in the voting booth. I also don't agree with people shouting down McCain when he's trying to talk. The Code Pink people are a disgrace. If people want to talk about the issues you have to let the candidates talk.

http://www.wftv.com/news/16738560/detail.html

City Vehicles Vandalized With Political Messages

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Racial slurs targeting Barack Obama were discovered spray painted tonight on dozens of city vehicles in Orlando.

The vandalism happened in a City of Orlando parking lot on the corner of south and orange.

Phrases including “Obmama smokes crack” and others phrases with racial slurs were written in blue spray paint on the white city cars and trucks.

Other vehicles appeared to have had their gas tanks tampered with.

Along with the paint, hundreds of business cards were left on windshields.

The cards contain criticism of Obama on one side, and support for Hillary Clinton and her family on the other side.

The same cards were left on channel nine vehicles in Daytona Beach several weeks ago.

The vandalism happened the same night the Obama campaign kicked off its Florida organization with parties across the state.

Local representatives with the Obama campaign told channel nine they weren't aware of any similar incidents.

Orlando police are investigating the incident.

 

[chobie]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";25934667]
let me ask you this...If Hillary had won would you all in the OT all of a sudden stop chatting about Obama and come in here and be our bestest friends ever....I think not you would all still be meeting in the OT talking about where you were all going to go from there.[/QUOTE]


I would. And I would be on the con thread taking abuse for going over there to defend Hillary because I guarantee you if she had won the nomination the love affair with her would have ended that day.

I vote on the issues and Hillary and Obama are nearly identical on the issues so of course I would support her. AND I would be happy to vote for her.

Of course I'm sure there would a few Obama supporters who would say they would not vote for her and I would remind them about the Supreme Court, the war and all the other issues. I would have not respect for any Obama supporter who would not vote for Hillary based on issues that were not important to them when they thought Obama was going to win the nomination.


If they came out and said I will not vote for Hillary because I'm angry about the primary process and I'm angry at the DNC, well I would respect their honesty, but not their reasons. And if they said that they only wanted to vote for Obama becuase of his personality or who he is and issues had nothing to do with it, again I would respect their honesty.

However, if Obama supporters all of sudden started saying things well I can't vote for Hillary because I just don't like her or trust her or because Bill'n'Monica - I would take them task for that. And if they said things like well I'm worried about having a strong CIC and McCain has more experience in the area then Hillary, then I would point out what hypocrites they are.

I would not join in any Hillary bashing on the Obama thread and I would attack McCain every time one of them tried to say he was a better alternative than Hillary.

 

[moon]

Yes, Peterpirate's post was a bash post of McCain and you were incensed by him bashing McCain.

And you did change what issues were important to you -at least on one. Which makes me wonder how many other issues you are doing this on. But just for fun, the next time you research how Obama stands on an issue that is important to you, look to see where Hillary stood on the issue. Then ask yourself if Hillary got the nomination could you still vote for her knowing more about her stances on issues than you did before.


If you wish to no longer converse with me, I would suggest you refrain from replying to my posts.

It just blows my mind that it bothers you so much when you perceive that Dolce -or anyone here changes what issues are important too them, but when BO does the same, you give him a free pass

Whose choices can affect your life more?

I mean you are all over Dolce because you say she changed one "important issue" so it makes you wonder how many other issues she's doing that on.

Don't you wonder the same thing about BO after he changed his postion on more than one issue which he had previously said was important to him?

 

[chobie]

It just blows my mind that it bothers you so much when you perceive that Dolce -or anyone here changes what issues are important too them, but when BO does the same, you give him a free pass

Whose choices can affect your life more?

I mean you are all over Dolce because you say she changed one "important issue" so it makes you wonder how many other issues she's doing that on.

Don't you wonder the same thing about BO after he changed his postion on more than one issue which he had previously said was important to him?

The issues Obama has changed his mind on are not issues that are important to me and don't effect my vote. Now if he suddenly said he was anti-abortion I would probably not vote for him.

Dolce has indicated she no longer desires to discuss this issue with me and so I will not discuss it in her absence.

And again, if it was the other way around and Hillary had the nomination and OS suddenly started changing what issues they claimed before were important to them - I would call them out on it.

 

[moon]

The issues Obama has changed his mind on are not issues that are important to me and don't effect my vote. Now if he suddenly said he was anti-abortion I would probably not vote for him.

Dolce has indicated she no longer desires to discuss this issue with me and so I will not discuss it in her absence.

And again, if it was the other way around and Hillary had the nomination and OS suddenly started changing what issues they claimed before were important to them - I would call them out on it.

I think I didn't explain myself well. BO has changed positions on issues he had previously stated were important to him Why don't you wonder what other issues he will change his mind on?

 

[chobie]

I think I didn't explain myself well. BO has changed positions on issues he had previously stated were important to him Why don't you wonder what other issues he will change his mind on?

I do wonder, and I expect an elected official to be willing to change his/her stance on an issue based on the facts in front of him and based on the opinions of others in the same position.

That is not what is happening here with some HS. It seems as if they are finding issues to make it important to justify not voting for Obama, which is their right of course as it is my right to make comments about that.

For instance the whole "experience" thing. If years in office and military experience were so important, then McCain should have been the choice from the beginning.

I do wonder why some posters who say they are more conservative than not supported HC to begin with. After all, her health care plan was much closer to UHC which is considered an ultra-liberal position to have.


I get that some people just hate Obama so much and are so angry at the Dems but I still don't get why they will vote for someone who stands on the opposite side of every issue they stand for to send a message.

But, of course its everyone's right to do that.

 

[jacksonsmom]

The thing is everyone has issues that are more important to them then others. I did not/do not agree 100% where Hillary stood on issues. I did like her Health care, Obama's is a lot different and I do not like his at all. So in my opinion, McCain's is the "best" when it comes to him and Obama. The way I have seen is McCain is for bascially how things are now, it's not perfect, but to me Obama's plan is a mess is so many ways.

Iraq: I trust Hillary and McCain when it comes to the war and what to do about it AND to keep the US safe from terrorist. I believe they will do the right thing, even if that means to keep the troops there a little longer. I do not have the same trust from Obama. Just the bit I have heard from talk about foreign affairs and Iraq, he sounds naive. I don't want a naive President in the time of War. I am worried Obama would be so worried about his image that he will do anything to get all the troops out of Iraq, even if it meant putting them OR the US in harms way, just so he can say "see I brought the troops home"

Abortion keeps getting brought up, well even though I am a Democrat this is where I disagree with most democrats. I do not believe in abortions except in those extreme cases (mother's/baby's health or in the case of rape) so you see abortion is not an important issue to me. It's not high on my list.

Other issues are MORE important, like health care and Iraq and our National Security....those issues I feel Obama will do a poorer job at them then McCain. As far as the Ecomony: I truly think BOTH Obama and McCain won't be able to fix it and it will continue to get worse before it gets better, so that issue is a wash for me.
My other major issue for me is the illegals, honestly I don't really know where each truly stands on the issue so I have to read up on that and see who I agree with most, probably won't be one where I agree 100%

So issues do matter to me, not maybe the same ones that matter to you or maybe we see things differently, honestly there is no WRONG or RIGHT answer, you vote for Obama because you feel he is better to lead the Country then McCain, I vote for McCain because I think he can lead the Country better then Obama.
No right or wrong answers, just OPINIONS!

 

[chobie]

The thing is everyone has issues that are more important to them then others. I did not/do not agree 100% where Hillary stood on issues. I did like her Health care, Obama's is a lot different and I do not like his at all. So in my opinion, McCain's is the "best" when it comes to him and Obama. The way I have seen is McCain is for bascially how things are now, it's not perfect, but to me Obama's plan is a mess is so many ways.

Iraq: I trust Hillary and McCain when it comes to the war and what to do about it AND to keep the US safe from terrorist. I believe they will do the right thing, even if that means to keep the troops there a little longer. I do not have the same trust from Obama. Just the bit I have heard from talk about foreign affairs and Iraq, he sounds naive. I don't want a naive President in the time of War. I am worried Obama would be so worried about his image that he will do anything to get all the troops out of Iraq, even if it meant putting them OR the US in harms way, just so he can say "see I brought the troops home"

Abortion keeps getting brought up, well even though I am a Democrat this is where I disagree with most democrats. I do not believe in abortions except in those extreme cases (mother's/baby's health or in the case of rape) so you see abortion is not an important issue to me. It's not high on my list.

Other issues are MORE important, like health care and Iraq and our National Security....those issues I feel Obama will do a poorer job at them then McCain. As far as the Ecomony: I truly think BOTH Obama and McCain won't be able to fix it and it will continue to get worse before it gets better, so that issue is a wash for me.
My other major issue for me is the illegals, honestly I don't really know where each truly stands on the issue so I have to read up on that and see who I agree with most, probably won't be one where I agree 100%

So issues do matter to me, not maybe the same ones that matter to you or maybe we see things differently, honestly there is no WRONG or RIGHT answer, you vote for Obama because you feel he is better to lead the Country then McCain, I vote for McCain because I think he can lead the Country better then Obama.
No right or wrong answers, just OPINIONS!

I can understand that. It seems you have an equal mix of conservative and liberal issues. Most Hillary supporters do not, though, and tend to be strictly on the left side of things.

Part of the reason I keep posting on this thread is because it seems to have become more of an Obama bashing/McCain supporting thread and people that try to post reasons why you should vote for Obama seem to get attacked, whereas people who post reasons why you should vote for McCain do not. Supporting Hillary is not synonymous with voting for McCain.

Obviously people can post that way if they want to, but as long as this is a Hillary supporters thread then people like me who would vote for Hillary if she got the nomination should be allowed to post about what Hillary supports (voting for Obama) and about the issues that Obama and Hillary share the same or similar stance on (just about every issue.

 

[jacksonsmom]

I can understand that. It seems you have an equal mix of conservative and liberal issues. Most Hillary supporters do not, though, and tend to be strictly on the left side of things.

Part of the reason I keep posting on this thread is because it seems to have become more of an Obama bashing/McCain supporting thread and people that try to post reasons why you should vote for Obama seem to get attacked, whereas people who post reasons why you should vote for McCain do not. Supporting Hillary is not synonymous with voting for McCain.

Obviously people can post that way if they want to, but as long as this is a Hillary supporters thread then people like me who would vote for Hillary if she got the nomination should be allowed to post about what Hillary supports (voting for Obama) and about the issues that Obama and Hillary share the same or similar stance on (just about every issue.

I can't and won't speak for anyone else but myself, but I do not mind if someone post reasons as to why they won't vote for McCain. Now those are different then opinions of the man. Because he left his disabied wife for a younger woman, is not a reason. Sure the man is a jerk for that, but that is his personal affairs. (just like the Bill and Monica ---which I have heard that being a reason why some people would not support Hillary) both are silly in my opinion.

Truth be told I do not care personally for Obama or McCain, I think both are lairs and will say anything to get elected. So yes for me the vote is who I think would be better to run the Country and more importantly a vote I can live with. For me the answer for that has been McCain.

Am I happy, excited, jumping for joy??? No Way! But when given the choices of Obama or McCain, I feel McCain, although not the best choice, is the better choice for me.

Just for the record; I think it is disgusting that some people sprayed a bunch of anti Obama messages on cars and such. I don't like the man either but I never would do something like that. That is disgusting and just plain wrong!

 

[moon]

I do wonder, and I expect an elected official to be willing to change his/her stance on an issue based on the facts in front of him and based on the opinions of others in the same position.

So you call his enourmous change on FISA one of those issues? Just a few months ago he said this:

I strongly oppose retroactive immunity in the FISA bill.... No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people - not the President of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program. We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.

Yet, he folded on this like a cheap suit. He, the one his supporters bragged about his being "a constitutional Law Professor" fails to defend the 4th admenment on his first test as a candidate.

Nothing has chaged since he said those words. The only change is obama's position.

Not long ago ago he talked about leading filibuster -the issue was so important to him. And now he's going with the current and votng to give immunity to criminals. He's not being a leader when such a crucial -but controversial- bill comes up. He's a follower to what is the opposite side to what his convictions seemed to be just months ago.

And that's the issue so many here have with him. It's a question of integrity.
He being the newcomer in this race asked people to following on pure "hope and change" on pure emotions, on pure faith.

Some of us need more. We need to see his actions and judge on them -not on empty words and platitudes.

So far several of those actions go against those words. That's why we worry.

 

[chobie]

I can't and won't speak for anyone else but myself, but I do not mind if someone post reasons as to why they won't vote for McCain. Now those are different then opinions of the man. Because he left his disabied wife for a younger woman, is not a reason. Sure the man is a jerk for that, but that is his personal affairs. (just like the Bill and Monica ---which I have heard that being a reason why some people would not support Hillary) both are silly in my opinion.

Truth be told I do not care personally for Obama or McCain, I think both are lairs and will say anything to get elected. So yes for me the vote is who I think would be better to run the Country and more importantly a vote I can live with. For me the answer for that has been McCain.

Am I happy, excited, jumping for joy??? No Way! But when given the choices of Obama or McCain, I feel McCain, although not the best choice, is the better choice for me.

Just for the record; I think it is disgusting that some people sprayed a bunch of anti Obama messages on cars and such. I don't like the man either but I never would do something like that. That is disgusting and just plain wrong!

Truth be told, the only candidate I would be jumping for joy to vote for is Kucinich.

But, any Democrat is better than a Republican to me. I'm not afraid of Obama's relative lack of experience because his campaign has showed me that he will pick a VP and Cabinet of well qualified, intelligent, people to help guide him in decision making, rather than sycophants. I don't want or expect the POTUS to make unilateral decisions in areas of great public concern.

As for the anti-Obama messages -whoever did that just sounds like a nutjob.

 

[chobie]

So you call his enourmous change on FISA one of those issues? Just a few months ago he said this:

I strongly oppose retroactive immunity in the FISA bill.... No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people - not the President of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program. We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.

Yet, he folded on this like a cheap suit. He, the one his supporters bragged about his being "a constitutional Law Professor" fails to defend the 4th admenment on his first test as a candidate.

Nothing has chaged since he said those words. The only change is obama's position.

Not long ago ago he talked about leading filibuster -the issue was so important to him. And now he's going with the current and votng to give immunity to criminals. He's not being a leader when such a crucial -but controversial- bill comes up. He's a follower to what is the opposite side to what his convictions seemed to be just months ago.

And that's the issue so many here have with him. It's a question of integrity.
He being the newcomer in this race asked people to following on pure "hope and change" on pure emotions, on pure faith.

Some of us need more. We need to see his actions and judge on them -not on empty words and platitudes.

So far several of those actions go against those words. That's why we worry.

I'll grant you the FISA one. But in all fairness McCain has also showed a great lack of integrity. His flip flop on torture for one. So, if it comes to a lesser evil, that's still Obama for me because of the Supreme Court if nothing else. This Roberts/Alito/Scalia/Thomas voting block scares the **** out of me and all we need is one more of them appointed -and that is what McCain said he would do-nominate another one of those.

I understand the "devil you know" attitude toward McCain and its precisely because of I know that devil I would never vote for him no matter who had won the Democratic nomination or how they won the nomination. YMMV