Hillary supporters Unit #3 ..yes we are still here!

[punkin]

Dolce and Jar, I have to respectfully disagree with both of you. Neither Obama nor McCain has clue one about what is going on in the Economy. They and their proxies that I have heard address the issue are so completely lost that they can't even discuss it intelligently. Obama's guy was busy blaming Bush and McCain's guy kept harping on how the fundamentals of the Economy are just fine. This was the day after the Fannie/Freddie takeover, so maybe they have refined their talking points, but at the time all I could think was "what a couple of morons."

 

[DISUNC]

New data showing that (a) Obama is making no progress in gaining Hillary supporters and (b) that the number of the latter group that view MCCain favorably is increasing.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080923/D93CC8A80.html

No suprise here! Obama supporters keep saying that his Ideals are the same as Hillary's. We Hillary supporters KNOW BETTER!!!!!!!

Bo just stole some of her ideals, But hasnt a clue how to execute them.

 

[DISUNC]

I have never had any "loyalty to the party." I have always voted by issues. Usually though, my issues line up pretty well with the Dem platform. This election is different because even though I agree with Obama's statements on many of the issues, I just don't trust him at all, and I am faced with the conundrum of voting on the issues with Obama or on character with McCain. Prior to Palin, I was leaning to McCain. Now, I just don't know.

Last night on CNN (I was listening on Sirius) Someone brought up a point that I thought was spot on. In regards to the issue of McCain 'attacking" Obama character, someone said...What else does he have to go with...Obama simply has NO record to attack or praise.

This quote stuck out from that article:



That survey is reporting against the same 2000 folks - perhaps these folks are not representatve of all Hillary supporters.

Obama was obviously not my first choice. But I feel that the only way to hold the Bush Admistration accountable - albeit after the fact - is to get Obama\Biden in there.

Yeah - Obama is going to need some quick on-the-job training - but with Biden by his side - I have no doubt he will start his admistration running in trying to solve all these problems that are busting out of the seams of this ugh current administration!

Ask yourself this - who is most likely going to be successful in cleaning up this mess? A senator who's been around for years and helped caused the mess, or a fairly new well educated senator who will bring new ideas to the table?


That's all behind my decision making process - plus I am really hoping Obama does well - so I can wholeheartedly back him.

You all know that I find it UNFORGIVABLE what the DNC did with the MI & Fl votes, and also the SD's Pushed Obama through. As far as the cleaning up, I will go with McCain on this. I really dont see Obama doing anything other then making a BIGGER mess.

I said this on another thread and I’ll say there here:

Recently we’ve had two “3AM wake-up calls” that the presidential nominees could respond to. How often do we get to see the nominees in action before having to elect them into office? Both times Obama immediately released a lame statement that wasn’t fully comprehending the situation. Both times McCain released a much more informed statement taking a stronger stance in one way or another. Obama then came back with a revised statement basically reiterating what McCain said and then making a crass comment on how glad he is that McCain agrees with him on that issue.

It was just Obama voting “present” it was just Obama "copying Hillary’s response in a debate". If elected, whose Obama going to copy for the answers he needs right then?

We need a leader and not a copier to run this country.

I honesty don't see this. I thought Obama's response to this finacial crisis was spot on.

And that was????

Dolce and Jar, I have to respectfully disagree with both of you. Neither Obama nor McCain has clue one about what is going on in the Economy. They and their proxies that I have heard address the issue are so completely lost that they can't even discuss it intelligently. Obama's guy was busy blaming Bush and McCain's guy kept harping on how the fundamentals of the Economy are just fine. This was the day after the Fannie/Freddie takeover, so maybe they have refined their talking points, but at the time all I could think was "what a couple of morons."

Quite honestly.....NO ONE in the world KNOWS what to do with this mess, if anything at all. But there is plenty of blame to go around to ALL polititians, CEO's, Wall Street...etc. This is NOT the time for BLAME GAME....it needs to be FIXED NOW & done right. This is seperating the "Men/Woman from the Boys/Girls"

But McCain did offer a plan, Obama is still thinkin!

 

["Got Disney"]

Well got my new yard sign....it says "Another Democrat for McCain"

Sums it up pretty perfectly for me

I want one that says that...where did you get it ?

I have never had any "loyalty to the party." I have always voted by issues. Usually though, my issues line up pretty well with the Dem platform. This election is different because even though I agree with Obama's statements on many of the issues, I just don't trust him at all, and I am faced with the conundrum of voting on the issues with Obama or on character with McCain. Prior to Palin, I was leaning to McCain. Now, I just don't know.

The more I listen to Obama the more I am sure of my vote for McCain....it was not an easy decision to walk away from the DEM party and there is not much about Palin that rocks my world...in addition here in Ca. my vote will do nothing because it is an Obama state....but I have to be true to myself and follow my gut...and that's where it lead me.

I know where you stand because i myself was there. Way it all out wait for the debates and see if that helps. If you choose Obama we will still love you

This quote stuck out from that article:



That survey is reporting against the same 2000 folks - perhaps these folks are not representatve of all Hillary supporters.

Obama was obviously not my first choice. But I feel that the only way to hold the Bush Admistration accountable - albeit after the fact - is to get Obama\Biden in there.

Yeah - Obama is going to need some quick on-the-job training - but with Biden by his side - I have no doubt he will start his admistration running in trying to solve all these problems that are busting out of the seams of this ugh current administration!

Ask yourself this - who is most likely going to be successful in cleaning up this mess? A senator who's been around for years and helped caused the mess, or a fairly new well educated senator who will bring new ideas to the table?


That's all behind my decision making process - plus I am really hoping Obama does well - so I can wholeheartedly back him.

I am glad that you have followed your heart I to however feel that McCain will fix the problems better than Obama. That does not mean I am right...just how i feel. In addition all that are standing by Obama have been there for many many moons...Biden being one of the oldest dogs....

.if they want change and McCain gets in who also wants to clean up the mess...than the mess will get cleaned up. Remember....McCain you say is one who made the mess well remember so did Biden and Obama and all that are in the house...

I believe that Obama went in wanting to make a new White House...but he is not that anymore . He is no different than the rest. A lying Politician.

For me when I ask myself that bolded question, the answer is John McCain will be better (NOT PERFECT THOUGH) at cleaning up this mess then Obama. I know not everyone agrees with that but that is my feelings on the subject so that is who I go with my vote

 

[punkin]

Quite honestly.....NO ONE in the world KNOWS what to do with this mess, if anything at all. But there is plenty of blame to go around to ALL polititians, CEO's, Wall Street...etc. This is NOT the time for BLAME GAME....it needs to be FIXED NOW & done right. This is seperating the "Men/Woman from the Boys/Girls"

But McCain did offer a plan, Obama is still thinkin!

Well, maybe it's above his pay grade.

Look, something has to be done. To sit back and do nothing WILL result in another great depression. FDR didn't know what he was doing either, but he tried different things and some worked. At this point I am for ANY plan of attack at all. Obama looks like he's ready to appoint a blue ribbon commission to study the matter further.

 

[mikedevilsyanks]

I was just curious, If Biden was to drop out/forced out, and Obama wanted Hillary, would any of you feel even more like a slap in the face? Just curious what you all think if that was the situation.

 

[Dolce27]

Yes. I've already stated that if Hillary was Obama's VP I still won't vote for the ticket. He wouldn't let her do anything in office anyway but be the half of the ticket that got him elected. If he does kick Biden out and move Hillary in, it's only because he wants to win and he's only using her. He treated her wrongly, played dirty, didn't care one iota about her supporters - in fact, he just told us to "get over it" - and then bring her in at almost the 11th hour just so he can win?

I hope if that's his game plan she turns him down flat. I will lose respect for her if she plays his games.

 

[Planogirl]

If Hillary wound up as Obama's running mate somehow, I'd assume that she had intelligent reasons for joining up with him. I think that she's one smart lady and I believe that she generally has everyone's best interests at heart. But then I've decided to go with Obama anyway.

It's funny. The Hillary supporters that still come here have decided to go into two different directions and yet we still get along when we come together. It's interesting that we don't fall into the negativity and fussing when it comes to each other.

 

[DISUNC]

I was just curious, If Biden was to drop out/forced out, and Obama wanted Hillary, would any of you feel even more like a slap in the face? Just curious what you all think if that was the situation.

NO. If I was a HC advisor, I tell her to stay clear of the Obama light at the end of the tunnel, cause its a freight train & its roaring through and will annihilate everything in it path. (a little dramatic but its what i really think of Obama)

But there is not one simple answer for me.

The Biggies are... (some not even Onamas fault).

Just the fact that the DNC played with the primaries (MI & FL) is ENOUGH for me. People say it the "rules" but those "rules" were created by 5 people/ I dont think 5 people should be allowed to discount what 18 million other democrats said.

What Obama says about Lobbyist & what Obama does with Lobbyist are two very different things. This has always been a HUGE issue for me. Besides I think that there is a very real need for Lobbyist in this country! The good ones anyway. I deem what Obama says about Lobbyist, as a squelching of Freedom of Speech! A BIG thing in my book.
Without the GOOD lobbyist nothing will get accomplished in this country! Remember Benjamin Franklin was a Lobbyist!

The 3rd thing is....(sorry for the repeat folks) Where are all the people who Obama helped in the past. They are soooooooooo noticeably absent from his campaign. He has NO ONE from his past (no political affliated) saying anything good about him. NONE! As i said many many mannnny times, he comes to the Job Interview with a light resume and NO references.

4th & Final. His Tax plan & health plan are IMO HORRIFIC and will cause great damage that we can never recover from. What he says is just pandering, but in reality!!!! God help us if he gets in.

I have many other reasons.....But they are the BIG ones.

 

["Got Disney"]

I was just curious, If Biden was to drop out/forced out, and Obama wanted Hillary, would any of you feel even more like a slap in the face? Just curious what you all think if that was the situation.

Well I will play devil's advocate and say he does and she agrees....and things were as they are right know...most likely not. The reason for that, and i agree with Dolce would be just to get elected. In addition if he did well IMO it would be because of Hilary's help yet he would take all the credit getting him reelected and her not in 2012...

If he had taken her as his VP in the first place than I would have went with the ticket ...however it would have been because of her not him. On that note I am sure Biden is in to stay. I have no problem with Biden....I do like him.

It's funny. The Hillary supporters that still come here have decided to go into two different directions and yet we still get along when we come together. It's interesting that we don't fall into the negativity and fussing when it comes to each other.

That's because us HS ROCK we still see things the same as when we were voting for Hillary.....regardless of which side we have chosen we are not doing it because we are head over heals with that candidate. We are doing it because for us it is where our second choice has lead us. But we still feel the same way as when we started this thread...that Hillary was the best choice for POTUS I also feel that we are all left but not so much that we will fall over from leaning so far to one side.

 

[Dolce27]

NO. If I was a HC advisor, I tell her to stay clear of the Obama light at the end of the tunnel, cause its a freight train & its roaring through and will annihilate everything in it path. (a little dramatic but its what i really think of Obama)

But there is not one simple answer for me.

The Biggies are... (some not even Onamas fault).

Just the fact that the DNC played with the primaries (MI & FL) is ENOUGH for me. People say it the "rules" but those "rules" were created by 5 people/ I dont think 5 people should be allowed to discount what 18 million other democrats said.

What Obama says about Lobbyist & what Obama does with Lobbyist are two very different things. This has always been a HUGE issue for me. Besides I think that there is a very real need for Lobbyist in this country! The good ones anyway. I deem what Obama says about Lobbyist, as a squelching of Freedom of Speech! A BIG thing in my book.
Without the GOOD lobbyist nothing will get accomplished in this country! Remember Benjamin Franklin was a Lobbyist!

The 3rd thing is....(sorry for the repeat folks) Where are all the people who Obama helped in the past. They are soooooooooo noticeably absent from his campaign. He has NO ONE from his past (no political affliated) saying anything good about him. NONE! As i said many many mannnny times, he comes to the Job Interview with a light resume and NO references.

4th & Final. His Tax plan & health plan are IMO HORRIFIC and will cause great damage that we can never recover from. What he says is just pandering, but in reality!!!! God help us if he gets in.

I have many other reasons.....But they are the BIG ones.

Well, one of the papers - I can't recall if it was DC or Chicago finally did a story on Obama's childhood a few weeks ago. They got in touch with the people he grew up with - friends and classmates in HI -the friends he hung out with and brought home from school.. ect. I posted the link to this story on some thead at some point (I'm on too many threads anymore ) Anyways. The point of the article was to see what Obama's childhood was like from his friends point of view. They all said that they were shocked when his book came out - that they didn't recall it really being like that. I guess they aren't political people from his past but someone finally dug some into his past a little.

 

[Chuck S]

I agree I'd like to hear more from folks that knew him before he go into politics, but I doubt it would really influence me, unless they all had something negative to say. I mean, really, if you look up 10 people that I went to school with, you'd probably get 10 different impressions and opinions, some would likely contradict others. I think that would be pretty normal. But then what would that really tell us about him on a personal level? Basically he was an average kid in the Jr. HS and HS social circles, which really has nothing to do with Presidential ability. The same would be true even later in life, during his college years and early working years, everyone has friends that like them, and people or acquaintances that don't really care for them on a personal basis.

What wouldn't be normal would be if they were ALL overly positive or ALL overly negative. That would tend to influence my vote.

I'm still scared of Palin's ultra conservative leanings, and the possibility of her actually being POTUS and appointing SC judges in the event McCain could not complete his term. And lets face it, something could happen to Obama, too. Just as anyone of us could simply wind up in the hospital or die unexpectedly. In that case I'd feel pretty good about Biden filling the office of POTUS versus Palin stepping into that role. You really have to look at Pres and VP as a package, and weigh all the possibilities in case something would happen. I do wish that Obama had picked Hillary, though. It would have been an unbeatable ticket, but I would have preferred Hillary as Pres and Obama as VP.

 

["Got Disney"]

just saw on the news that the 21% voting for McCain has gone up to 28%.....seems he is loosing ground not gaining . They mentioned today that 54% of the HS are going for Obama and 46% are not......so guess the other 18% are either undecided or not voting period.

 

[DISUNC]

Well, one of the papers - I can't recall if it was DC or Chicago finally did a story on Obama's childhood a few weeks ago. They got in touch with the people he grew up with - friends and classmates in HI -the friends he hung out with and brought home from school.. ect. I posted the link to this story on some thead at some point (I'm on too many threads anymore ) Anyways. The point of the article was to see what Obama's childhood was like from his friends point of view. They all said that they were shocked when his book came out - that they didn't recall it really being like that. I guess they aren't political people from his past but someone finally dug some into his past a little.

I agree I'd like to hear more from folks that knew him before he go into politics, but I doubt it would really influence me, unless they all had something negative to say. I mean, really, if you look up 10 people that I went to school with, you'd probably get 10 different impressions and opinions, some would likely contradict others. I think that would be pretty normal. But then what would that really tell us about him on a personal level? Basically he was an average kid in the Jr. HS and HS social circles, which really has nothing to do with Presidential ability. The same would be true even later in life, during his college years and early working years, everyone has friends that like them, and people or acquaintances that don't really care for them on a personal basis.

I'd really like to hear from all these people he "helped" as a Community Organizer". Where are all the people in Chicago who benefited from any of Obamas laws as State Senator. These are the people I'd alway wanted to hear from. But they are very (disturbingly) silent.

I'm still scared of Palin's ultra conservative leanings, and the possibility of her actually being POTUS and appointing SC judges in the event McCain could not complete his term. And lets face it, something could happen to Obama, too. Just as anyone of us could simply wind up in the hospital or die unexpectedly. In that case I'd feel pretty good about Biden filling the office of POTUS versus Palin stepping into that role. You really have to look at Pres and VP as a package, and weigh all the possibilities in case something would happen. I do wish that Obama had picked Hillary, though. It would have been an unbeatable ticket, but I would have preferred Hillary as Pres and Obama as VP.

Palin dont bother me at all with her conservative values. There is no evidence that she ever tried to pass laws based on her conservative values. And she did have a 90% Approval rating from Alaskan citizens. I am sure they are not all conservative.
And the people of Arizona voted McCain in like a gazillion times.

I wonder what Obamas Senate ratings were????? The fact that he didnt even seriously consider Hillary is a MAJOR faux pax! And cannot be overlooked. I do honestly believe that Obama is nothing more than a puppet, and the DNC did not want Hillary cause they knew they (DNC head muckity mucks) cannot control her.

I dont know about Biden, he has been saying some real stupid things lately. See my thread on that.
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1962709
Lets just say, he cannot EVER be a contestant on "Are you Smarter than a 5th Grader"!!!!

 

[Chuck S]

Palin dont bother me at all with her conservative values. There is no evidence that she ever tried to pass laws based on her conservative values.

That depends upon how you interpret some of her actions and statements.

For instance, only vetoing a law that would have removed same sex partner benefits for state employees only AFTER she was informed the law would violate a ruling already made by the state supreme court, and then publicly making a statement that she didn't agree with the ruling. By extrapolation, that tells me she would certainly be willing to try to enact laws based on her personal conservative views. If the personal views and beliefs of a candidate have no bearing on laws they'll try to pass, then what would distinguish one candidate from another? And why did we all support Hillary over Obama in the first place?

 

[moon]

That depends upon how you interpret some of her actions and statements.

For instance, only vetoing a law that would have removed same sex partner benefits for state employees only AFTER she was informed the law would violate a ruling already made by the state supreme court, and then publicly making a statement that she didn't agree with the ruling. By extrapolation, that tells me she would certainly be willing to try to enact laws based on her personal conservative views. If the personal views and beliefs of a candidate have no bearing on laws they'll try to pass, then what would distinguish one candidate from another? And why did we all support Hillary over Obama in the first place?

ITA. Another thing, I won't say that this is a "conservative value". I wouldn't want to paint all conservatives with such barbaric brush -I don't know what kind of "value" this is but Sarah Palin has imposed her views on areal wolf hunting, something which most Alaskans oppose, going so far as to offer a bounty to those who bring her the severed leg of a wolf, so she's not only condoning, but rewarding such savagery. Alaska's bounty laws were repealed in 1984 and the state has no current legal authority to implement the bounties, but who cares about laws when they interfere with her wants?

This brutal "hunting" (more like an excecution) takes place in winter, and the animal has no chance to escape. Shooting from a plane does rarely result in instant death, so these poor animals run terrorized and wounded sometimes for miles until they colapse.

Here's a video of this "sport".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr183lk-wQk

Warning, it is pretty disturbing. The fact that this woman not only allows, but pushes for this horrific practice tells me that no matter what she looks like on the outside, she's an ugly and repulsive person on the inside.

 

["Got Disney"]

That depends upon how you interpret some of her actions and statements.

For instance, only vetoing a law that would have removed same sex partner benefits for state employees only AFTER she was informed the law would violate a ruling already made by the state supreme court, and then publicly making a statement that she didn't agree with the ruling. By extrapolation, that tells me she would certainly be willing to try to enact laws based on her personal conservative views. If the personal views and beliefs of a candidate have no bearing on laws they'll try to pass, then what would distinguish one candidate from another? And why did we all support Hillary over Obama in the first place?

I am not a fan of Palin myself and her issues are different than mine for sure. I do find her tenacity refreshing and see her as a very smart woman.
I like Biden but not Obama.

I however am voting for McCain and not Palin just as I am not Voting Obama because of Obama not Biden...hm did that make sense

I am not threatened either from Palins beliefs because even if she became POTUS by default ....she is one person/REP in a DEM congress.

AS for the issues I have nothing against Obamas issues just against the man...I remember when this all started how blessed we all felt about both candidates...and the dream ticket......but as time went on I myself faded away from Obama and liked and trusted him less and less.

do I think he is a bad man ...not at all. But I do think that he is a hypocrite to it's worse and do i think he has more of a goal to be the first African American POTUS...yes....more so than to help us. I think that he started his campaign wanting to truly change the world and old politics but as time went on that changed and he became as much a liar if not more than the rest.

I wish that he turned out to be everything he talked about in the begging and showed me that i was wrong and that he can and will rise above the rest...but he didn't.

He said that he would never ever go negative no matter what the other candidate did.....because that is the old way of politics and the American people are tired of that....that he will bring hope and change and clean up the white house. There is more i could add on but you get the point....

Like I said a long time ago "A politician is a Politician"

 

[DISUNC]

That depends upon how you interpret some of her actions and statements.

For instance, only vetoing a law that would have removed same sex partner benefits for state employees only AFTER she was informed the law would violate a ruling already made by the state supreme court, and then publicly making a statement that she didn't agree with the ruling. By extrapolation, that tells me she would certainly be willing to try to enact laws based on her personal conservative views. If the personal views and beliefs of a candidate have no bearing on laws they'll try to pass, then what would distinguish one candidate from another??

But the point is she didnt pass the law, nor could she. Thats why we have Laws. It's all about check's & balances. The President & VP have really very few unlimited powers. A prime example of this is Roe V Wade was passed while Nixon was in Office.

This is like the Supreme Court thing. Not once did I ever think it was a Presidential issue. Congress okays who gets in.
BTW, if you review the whole Clarence Thomas issue. It was Joe Biden who made a major mistake. And many believe because of Joe Biden, we now have Clarence Thomas.

Joe Biden was the head of the Clarence Thomas Hearings. Joe knew all about Anita Hill. It was Joe who refused to let Anita Hill testify. Then the Press picked up the story. The hearings were actually done, finished. But due to the press 7 public outcry, Joe was forced to reopen the hearings...Thats when the circus came to town...and the infamous "high tech Lynching" speach.

In other words..I put MUCH more emphasis on my Senators than I do on my presidential candidates.

And why did we all support Hillary over Obama in the first place?

Cause she was Lightyears better!
For me, Her NHC plan was nothing short of shear BRILLIANCE!

 

[DISUNC]

ITA. Another thing, I won't say that this is a "conservative value". I wouldn't want to paint all conservatives with such barbaric brush -I don't know what kind of "value" this is but Sarah Palin has imposed her views on areal wolf hunting, something which most Alaskans oppose, going so far as to offer a bounty to those who bring her the severed leg of a wolf, so she's not only condoning, but rewarding such savagery. Alaska's bounty laws were repealed in 1984 and the state has no current legal authority to implement the bounties, but who cares about laws when they interfere with her wants?

This brutal "hunting" (more like an excecution) takes place in winter, and the animal has no chance to escape. Shooting from a plane does rarely result in instant death, so these poor animals run terrorized and wounded sometimes for miles until they colapse.

Here's a video of this "sport".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr183lk-wQk

Warning, it is pretty disturbing. The fact that this woman not only allows, but pushes for this horrific practice tells me that no matter what she looks like on the outside, she's an ugly and repulsive person on the inside.

I didnt watch the video. YUK! I live in HUNTING country...but I dont hunt. There are very valid reason for hunting. From the articles I read the wolves destroy other animals in Alaska. Because of the size & vastness of the terrain, they have to be hunted from the air.
Now this is not my cup of Tea, but I really would like to know why she offered $150 for every wolf killed. I really dont think because she has a evil streak, and will give her the benefit of the doubt, that indeed there was a reason for this.. BTW the $150 was turned down by the State Supreme Court.

http://www.slate.com/id/2199140/

[QUOTE="Got Disney";27770588]AS for the issues I have nothing against Obamas issues just against the man...I remember when this all started how blessed we all felt about both candidates...and the dream ticket......but as time went on I myself faded away from Obama and liked and trusted him less and less.

do I think he is a bad man ...not at all. [/QUOTE]

To me he is the Democrat version of W! I find him self serving, arrogant, and HIGHLY ELITIST! I think he is more of a conniver than a thinker. For all his autobiographies he wrote, its always HIM HIM HIM...and how bad HE had it, etc. Nothing was ever really his fault...etc.

This was proved to me by his famous "Race Speech" after the Rev story broke. It was Everybody else had a problem (inc his grandmother ) but he is above it all.

IMO Barack will always do what is best for Barack, first & foremost.

I do know that Hillary really wanted to do what was best for the Country.

 

["Got Disney"]

To me he is the Democrat version of W! I find him self serving, arrogant, and HIGHLY ELITIST! I think he is more of a conniver than a thinker. For all his autobiographies he wrote, its always HIM HIM HIM...and how bad HE had it, etc. Nothing was ever really his fault...etc.

This was proved to me by his famous "Race Speech" after the Rev story broke. It was Everybody else had a problem (inc his grandmother ) but he is above it all.

IMO Barack will always do what is best for Barack, first & foremost.

I do know that Hillary really wanted to do what was best for the Country.

Can't disagree with a sing you wrote...in addition I agree and I am sure all here do also ...that Hillary showed us that she would dedicate herself to make this country a better place and again make us prosper....she cared and it showed. I also felt it. I felt nothing from Obama....just words and speeches.