High School Related Rant (sorry winded)

[OzFan]

I'm so angry this morning and sad at the same time! My 15yr DD is a freshman in HS. She is a straight A student. She is a fanatic about her work, it has to be PERFECT. I think she has a touch OCD. She comes home Friday and says she has a HUGE Spanish project due Monday and she has to work on it all weekend. Ok, no biggie get to work! She stayed in ALL weekend to work on this project, it was nice here. A beautiful weekend here in Chicago and she is indoors. This morning she tells me, it was a group project and the other kids NEVER do any work. WHAT? Why is MY daughter ALWAYS put with the same group of kids, the ones that don't do their work, the ones that ALWAYS opt to get the ZERO! I asked the teacher once before on why she does the group projects and her answer was " those students would fail if I didn't put them in groups". So now my poor DD is not only responsible for her grades but for the entire groups! No peer pressure here! Maybe there is a teacher here that can shed some light on this for me, because I JUST DON"T GET IT! I felt like tearing up the project and letting the WHOLE group get a ZERO! It just doesn't seem fair. She is not only carrying a full load,she is in the drumline, and is on the softball team. She is either at a game or practicing until 8PM, comes home and manitains her grades. Sorry for the rant, but it just IRKS me to no end! Any advice? Any suggestions?

 

[poohandwendy]

IMO, group projects should never involve 'at-home' work for that very reason.

That type of project should be used only for class-work projects where the teacher can keep an eye on who is and who is not participating.

Sorry to hear your DD is carrying the load, it is not a fair system when she is unwillingly grouped with kids who just don't care.

 

[noodleknitter]

Group projects are totally ignorant. They sound nice in theory, but they are primarily a way for a teacher to feel like everyone is working and learning, when often it is only one or two who do. Sorry your daughter is stuck with one of those teachers. If you try talking with those people you will just get the run-around about kids learning to work together. Just a lot of BS.

 

[CheshireVal]

Group projects are annoying, I agree. However, they're the new thing in education. It's being pushed in college education courses as well as by school administrations.

What sounds like a good idea in theory doesn't always work out in real life.

On the upside, at least your daughter is getting a glimpse of what life can be like with co-workers who don't pull their fair share of weight around the office, either.

 

[noodleknitter]

Group projects are annoying, I agree. However, they're the new thing in education. It's being pushed in college education courses as well as by school administrations.

What sounds like a good idea in theory doesn't always work out in real life.

On the upside, at least your daughter is getting a glimpse of what life can be like with co-workers who don't pull their fair share of weight around the office, either.

The educational system jumps on theories without the evidence they are beneficial far too often. It is a shame that the only lesson learned is that there are slackers everywhere.

I didn't mean to make all teachers out to be wretched, just this particular concept. If teachers chose to use their common sense instead of toeing the party lines, our classroom would benefit greatly, IMO.

 

[PrincessPatty]

I've had plenty of grpup projects in college. When someone didnt do anything, I would tell the professor.

Some professors would ask for an 'outline' of who would be doing what in the project. We would just turn the entire project and if it was missing a part, the prof. would know, and yes we may not get the higher grade, but the lazy person would 'out' themselves.

 

[Mkaz]

You have every right to be angry. Your daughter should not be forced to carry those who refuse to do the work. It's just plain wrong in my opinion.

Last year my daughter had a similar situation. They were required to work in groups of two on a project. DD did all the research and even gathered brochures from our chiropractor. A week later the teacher decided that she would let them work independently on the project if they wanted. Well the girl that working with DD had the information in her possession because she told DD that she would type everything up for them. DD already had everything written out, just not typed. Big mistake on DD's part. You can guess what happened after that. The little girl claimed it as her own, typed it up and handed it in with her name only on it. My daughter ended up picking a different topic and redoing the whole project. Both projects got an A!

 

[BeNJeNWaFFLe]

I'm sorry your DD has to go through this. I always hated group projects. I was always the one who got stuck doing all the work.

I am a little confused. Does this teacher know that your DD is the only one in the group doing work? Did she put your DD in that group because she knows that your DD will do all the work for everyone so she doesn't have to fail any of them? If that is the case, then something seems fishy.

Give your DD a big hug. It doesn't end in grade school. College does it also. Lets just say that my group senior project was miraculously completed just in time by me and only me.

 

[carone0318]

I know that your dd is in hs, but group projects are plentiful in college. At least where I went and as a business major. Thinking back though, I do believe that we also would do evaluations about the group which were also turned into the teacher.

Maybe you can suggest to the teacher that each member of the group should fill out an evaluation about the group and each members participation.

 

[Marseeya]

The problem with group work is that many teachers use it wrong. True cooperative learning means that every student has to do their part in order to get the grade.

I just don't like it and probably won't use it a whole lot when I'm teaching. I'm all for group discussions and collaborative writing and things like that, but I don't like it when it comes to big projects where everyone's grade hinges on it.

I've had to do a lot of group work in college and it infuriates me when I get with people who don't care and don't want to do the work. I have been in groups that work wonderfully together, but those times are few and far between.

 

[mickman1962]

Just trying to balance it out a little bit here, if your daughter is that fanatical about her work (and possibly OCD). It is quite possible that the other kids do nothing because she won't let them as it has to be her way or no way. Not saying it is, just a possiblity as I've seen this first hand.

 

[sharbear]

I have two in HS and I know what a pain group projects are. I have a Senior this year and he just received a group project in History. Most of the Seniors have checked out already and so has the teacher. I know that he assigned this project so that the class can work on their projects during class so he doesn't have to teach. My S has been paired with someone all year, my S does the work and the other kid puts his name on the assignment. It's not fair but at least he's getting a good grade, the other kid is only hurting himself on the tests if he doesn't do the work.

Unfair as group projects are, they are also a staple in college. When we visited Purdue, the guide told us that Purdue did a study on what employers want most out of their engineers. What they found was that engineers don't work well together and employers wanted engineers who could work together. (My DH laughed about this with his boss, they both said, "just give me the project, that way I know it gets done right"!). So see, group projects are something that your child will find thoughout his life.

My kids usually do the bulk of the project by themselves unless the teacher has assigned certain parts to individuals. The want good grades and have figured out that this is the way to achieve this. They have also found that in Honors and AP classes the kids are more motivated and all will work together, another reason to get good grades and be in Honors.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

As annoying as group projects are what I have said to my dd, it is your job to make your group get together as you will need to do this in college.
It is a good managing skill for kids to learn in addition to doing the project.

Now the last minute thing.... That is a whole other topic.

 

[Chicago526]

Then next "group" project that comes along (and there will be another at some point), tell you're daughter that she should take charge of the group and assign the other's parts they need to do, and make sure she has them understand that she will NOT bail them out if they don't do the work. Have her approch it as being friendly and helpful. Have her offer to help the other kids if they need it, maybe the don't do the work because they have confidence problems or are behind in class.

After she assigns work, she needs to tell the teacher exactly what she assigned the other kids. This way, the teacher knows who is supposed to be doing what.

She has to stick to her guns, if some or all of the other kids don't do their work, she doesn't pick up the slack. If the project is incomplete, the teacher will know who was to do what. It's now in the teachers court to decide if she grades the group as a whole, or give higher grades to those that did their share and flunk the screw up(s). If she gives the group a lower grade, then you as a parent can decide if you want to talk to the teacher and take it further.

Yes, this means that your DD may have to take a lower grade. But if all her other work is highly graded, it shouldn't reflect too badly on her total grade for the semester (in my hs, tests were worth waaaay more than class work or home work. You could bomb on class/home work but as long as you aced the tests, you'd still pull a C or even a B). The point of all of this is to send a message to the other students in her class (and her teachers!) that they can't ride on her coat tails. Definatly do this the first group project of next year.

As for now, see if your DD's teacher is willing to give her extra credit for all the extra work she did (in fact, I'd insist on it!). She may as well get something for her effort! And tell her not to feel too bad about missing the nice weekend here in Chicago. I missed it too, I was inside sick all weekend. Got better just in time to go back to work this morning!

 

[OzFan]

Just trying to balance it out a little bit here, if your daughter is that fanatical about her work (and possibly OCD). It is quite possible that the other kids do nothing because she won't let them as it has to be her way or no way. Not saying it is, just a possiblity as I've seen this first hand.

She isn't a control freak just a neat freak. She makes sure EVERYTHING is PERFECT before she hands it in. She tried to assign each person in the group a different part of the project, no one wanted to do anything. She is a leader, and will not let the work get handed in half finished. When they presented the project today, she alone did the oral presentation, teacher asked the rest of the group questions and they couldn't answer them. The teacher knows who did the work, that is why my daughter was put there. She is in all honors classes but this one, and this is where the problem lies. The teacher puts the hard working students with the slackers, that way everybody passes. I hate group projects for this reason only, buton the bright side it does prepare her for the real world. She is bound to run into a co-worker with the same working ethics as the slackers in HS. I just feel bad that her weekend was indoors and not outside like the rest of the family. We haven't had too many nice days here in Chicago.

 

[Caradana]

You're right in that this experience prepares her for the real world. I have a very white-collar job, and I often encounter people who want to do the bare minimum.

Also, tell her that group projects and study groups are the name of the game at academically rigorous colleges. It's great that she's learning how to manage these larger workloads now. I don't think we would've gotten through without my engineering school study group.

 

[christineann]

I can't stand group projects. My daughter had a lazy lab partner in AP Physics this year, and she finally went to the professor and asked him to let her do the labs on her own. He was aware of the problem and gave her permission to do so, even though in theory it would mean more work for her. She ended up with the highest grade.

On the other hand, having lazy and unprepared lab partners in chemistry did her a favor. She did not want to do the actual cutting on the fetal pig, and her 3 lab partners elected her to do the research and direct them. After giving them instructions and watching them quickly butcher the project (literally), she took the knife and did it herself. What she thought would be horrifying was fascinating, and this summer she is going to work at a hospital in the pathology and radiology departments.

Still.........I can't stand group projects!

 

[GraysMom]

Group projects often tend to be unfairly spread out among students. The only way to try and even out the workload is to have the project completely done in class under the watchful eye of the teacher. As a First Grade teacher, my students rarely did group projects but even when I assigned individual projects I found they too had to be completed totally in school or else many parents "helped" with the projects. I'm sorry your DD has found herself in this unfair situation. I hope she has better luck in future classes.

GraysMom

 

[Cool-Beans]

Not all Universities and not all majors have students doing "group projects."

The theory behind the Group thing is that students will learn more by working with other students. It is more interesting than listening to a teacher lecture. IMHO, the Group Project is a way to give all the kids good grades without having to teach them anything. Part of the "fluid" approach they are taking, where students aren't bored by teachers who drill facts or explain things at the front of the room.

When asked directly, the schools say that they hear from employers that employers want more team-players. Amazing that no employer ever says, "We'd like someone bright enough to make change without a computer." Not even getting into the fact that education is supposed to be a worthy pursuit in and of itself, not a means to gain employment.

Maybe your daughter could ask the teacher if she could have solo projects instead.

 

[bekkiz]

Just to repeat something said above:

Group project can be awesome teaching/learning tools. However, they take a ton of work by the teacher to set them up properly. I would agree that many teachers do not understand what kinds of set-up are needed, but you would be just amazed at some of the group work I have seen in really well run classrooms.

I work at a very high performance school, and group work is very difficult there, because the students are all a little you-know-what retentive. However, with careful preperation and hands on teaching, they are not the evil assignments many parents find them to be. They are very engaging and fun

<off my pro-teacher soapbox now>