High School for only 2 years? What do you think

[LisaR]

My 13yodd is more mature than my college freshman dd.

Honestly, you can't win them all. It is not fair to deny kids opportunity either for those that are ready.

That is part of the epidemic of dumbing down of America in schools.

EXACTLY!

Education is fat too cookie-cutter for my liking. What works for one kid, may not work for another. Don't deny those that want to get ahead just because some other kid may falter under the same circumstances.

 

[tasha99]

I think it's a great idea (I went to college at 16 because I was a smart kid who just hated high school.) I think there should be tracks--the go to college early track, the traditional 4 year track, and the trade track. I think kids should be able to pick a trade at the 10th grade level or so, and move on to practical training.

 

[golfgal]

My 13yodd is more mature than my college freshman dd.

Honestly, you can't win them all. It is not fair to deny kids opportunity either for those that are ready.

That is part of the epidemic of dumbing down of America in schools.

I don't care how mature someone thinks a 13 year old it, the are NOT mature enough to hang out with college students but unfortunately there will be plenty of parents that force this because then they can say 'well my child graduated high school when they were 15".

I would say that my 14 year old are more RESPONSIBLE then our 17 year old but they are in no way more mature.

There are plenty of bright kids in the world, even in the US but I have yet to see one that is truly ready to be "in college" at 16 years old.

 

[auntie]

I think Florida has the right idea with the dual enrollment.
I don't think anyone is saying you should send a 16 year old away to college. Yet having a dual enrollment and getting college credit while still in high school is a good way to keep the kids moving along.
I know my son is basically riding out his senior year here in NY. Electives and two required courses..that they basically stretched out until taking in his senior year so as to have these kids show up for school. He's home done and back hom at 12:30 in the afternoon.
I think it would be great if my 18 year old could dual enroll in both high school and community college. I know my nephew will graduate from high school in Fl. with his high school diploma and an Associates Degree as well. That's a nice jump ahead.
I'm not saying it would be for every student. ...but it would be nice if it were an option to those students who have completed their high school requirements and whose parents think their children can handle the community college work/experience.

 

[czycropper]

Speaking from experience, it was the best decision my parents, the school administration & I made!.

Yes, I went to college at 16 1/2 having graduated high school early and I had no problem with socializing or being mature enough for college. BTW, I did this over 30 years ago. I graduated college in the normal (or is it normal, now days) four years. Granted my college GPA wasn't as high as my high school but I've done pretty well in life. So yes, a 16 year old can and has gone to college and achieved very well.

I had come from a private school to a public high school and had a high GPA so at the end of my 10th grade my Trig. teacher mentioned to me that if I wanted I could do it. It ended up that there were 4 of us who decided to do it and we all succeeded in our professions. Here's what we did: one is now retired from NASA where he was a Program Asst. Director for the Shuttle program and is in his last year of law school. Another one, was an assistant director for a few Shakespearean companies and she's now an executive for a Broadway production company. I went into law firm administration, was the director of our local bar association and currently I'm a part-SAHM and part-time law firm admin. for a two-lawyer firm. The last of our group went into his family insurance business after getting a MBA.

I will say that it took missing a complete summer of "fun" in between 10th & 11th/12th grade since I had to take Jr. & Senior English in summer school and then I had to double up History classes and not take gym (not a problem) or an additional elective. That was the downside. I wasn't able to go to the club to swim everyday or go to visit family in the Florida or go to our beach house but in the end it was a worthy sacrifice.

I'd do it again NOW and if one of my DDs wants to do it when they're in high school and the administration approves it I would encourage them to do it.

 

[Melissa<3Disney]

I don't care how mature someone thinks a 13 year old it, the are NOT mature enough to hang out with college students but unfortunately there will be plenty of parents that force this because then they can say 'well my child graduated high school when they were 15".

I would say that my 14 year old are more RESPONSIBLE then our 17 year old but they are in no way more mature.

There are plenty of bright kids in the world, even in the US but I have yet to see one that is truly ready to be "in college" at 16 years old.

Well I would have to respectfully disagree with this, it really depends on the kind of environment they are put in. Like I stated, we still had a "high school" it was just located on the college campus. We took college courses, but still had a "school" to go back to. I didn't really hang out with the college students too much, but had tons of friends from my school who were my age and interested in the same things as me. I blew through our traditional high school's course work, and wanted more of a challenge. I don't ever regret the decision my parents and I made. They weren't trying to push me to say they had a child that graduated college at a young age. They let me make the decision.

And I will tell you something else, almost all of the kids I went to school with are very successful, and well-rounded individuals. Most have gone on to pursue Master's. Others who were able to participate in the wonderful arts program at our college have gone on to dance on Broadway and with traveling Ballet companies. One of my fellow classmates is even in MIT in the Astronautical program training to become an Astronaut.

There was never a problem with drugs or drinking in our school. No cliques (granted we didn't really have enough students to have cliques). Everyone was friends with everyone else. We all were there for a common goal.

While I do agree with you that most 16 year old's are not ready for a college environment, please don't stereotype all of us. It was very difficult at times and required a lot of discipline on my part. It prepared me for a four year University in a big way. I knew the structure of college coursework and still had a blast in college!!

This doesn't work for all people. Like a pp said, if your child is very into the high school experience it's probably not he best option. At our traditional high school, I was one of those kids who didn't have a whole lot of friends. Ate lunch in the library while I studied. Even had a few girls who were very mean to me, just because I did well on my school work. When I went into the high school/college program I flourished. I made many friends who are still my best friends to this day! I ran for our student government, participated in school activities, and even helped organize some of those said activities. It doesn't work for everyone but I am so blessed to have been a part of such a wonderful experience!!

 

[ajwomic]

A word of caution with dual enrollment....a lot of the better colleges really frown upon this and it cost the student scholarship $$. The reason is, take a Calculus class for example...At a community college, you might have a different level of rigor and might cover a different amount than at a neighboring college. All English 1 classes at college are different. No standardization. But AP are highly standardized and will not differ mush from one school to the next. They are also known for their rigor. So a student with several AP's will get more $$ than a student with several duals. My hubby is a VP at a college and this is first hand info. It won't matter if you are going to community college anyway, but if you have your sights set on a prestigious university, you will get more $$ with APs.
Alicia

 

[barkley]

How does that work for families that are hoping for certain scholarships from 4-year colleges that you must be a freshman to have? If kids enter college as a junior, does that eliminate those scholarships and you are only eligible for transfer ones (which there seems to be a lot fewer of)? If you're not worried about that, I'm sure it's very helpful to only have to pay for two years out of pocket, but I wonder how it affects freshman scholarship eligiblity.

we have a dual enrollment program in our state, but it's not designed for a kid to graduate highschool with an associates degree.

it was designed with the high schools and the state colleges/universities looking at what the required courses are for the jr/sr year in high school as well as the general ed requirements a college freshman/sophmore would have. they figured out what college courses they could use to cover the high school requirements so a kid that does the program will still graduate high school after 12th grade BUT have completed all their college lower division general ed requirements so they will have junior standing in when they formaly enter college.

in our state their is specific language that speaks to allowing kids who do this to still be considered as "incoming freshman" for scholarships.

kids here are not limited to just jr/c.c.'s-it's any publicly funded college or university in the state. tuition free-parent's are only looking at lab fees, text books. the program has been expanded to include taking classes not only on a college campus but also on-line (homeschooler's, rural residents and those who were concerned about their kid not being mature enough to interact with traditional college population are very pleased with this enhancement).


i like the way our state's model is set up. i would be concerned about just compacting high school into a 2 year program. one of the issues i forsee is it creating a greater need for lower level coursework offerings at colleges. as it is in our state the high schools are re-working their requirements to increase math and english courses-and set them up so a portion MUST be done in the senior year. this was in response to the state colleges and universities finding a trend among their incoming freshman (from in the state and outside) wherein those that came from high schools that allowed them to finish up their math and english by their junior year demonstrated lower math/english competancies which resulted in the colleges having to offer more sessions of the english/math courses that are traditionaly taken by folks who either don't have the pre-req's or can pass a test to waive the pre-req's for the actual lower division general ed required classes.

if they decrease high school to 2 years then the average kid would enter college with what? maybe algebra done-what about calc and geometry-is that going to be something they will have to take in college just so they can have the skills to pass the math proficiency test to get into the required course? english for 2 years only? will they have the writing skills to pass the english profiency tests or are we looking at more remedial classes?

i have to wonder if reducing high school to 2 years would'nt result in increasing college to a minimum of 5 (or 6) years (the number of students that actualy complete a degree in just 4 years has greatly reduced in recent years-allot of college students are told from day one by academic advisors that a 5 year plan of attendance is more realistic).

i finished high school in 3 years, but that was b/c when i went while there were a set number of units/set required courses but you did'nt have to take them in certain years. i whacked them out by the end of my junior year (and even took a college course that year). it worked out o.k.-i had taken the coursework so i was able to pass the tests to go into the lower division math/english classes).

dh went another route-he took the chspe (california high school proficiency exam) at the begining of his junior year. he went to college in what would have been his junior year in high school. he did o.k. too but i think it was b/c the chspe tests you (unlike the ged) to confirm that your knowledge is equivilent to that expected of a graduating high school senior (which is why some state and federal agencies, including some branches of the military have deemed it as identical to a california high school diploma-and as far as dh goes, he's never had a university-in multiple states-consider it as anything other than the same).

 

[barkley]

A word of caution with dual enrollment....a lot of the better colleges really frown upon this and it cost the student scholarship $$. The reason is, take a Calculus class for example...At a community college, you might have a different level of rigor and might cover a different amount than at a neighboring college. All English 1 classes at college are different. No standardization. But AP are highly standardized and will not differ mush from one school to the next. They are also known for their rigor. So a student with several AP's will get more $$ than a student with several duals. My hubby is a VP at a college and this is first hand info. It won't matter if you are going to community college anyway, but if you have your sights set on a prestigious university, you will get more $$ with APs.
Alicia

here the courses for dual are designed to be those that are transferrable, and it's the REALY rare kid that would take the courses at the c.c.-they take them from the university.

they must have set it up pretty well-a neighbor's kid is graduating this spring from the program, and she's mulling enrollment/scholarship offers from some pretty prestigious colleges in a variety of states.

 

[golfgal]

Well I would have to respectfully disagree with this, it really depends on the kind of environment they are put in. Like I stated, we still had a "high school" it was just located on the college campus. We took college courses, but still had a "school" to go back to. I didn't really hang out with the college students too much, but had tons of friends from my school who were my age and interested in the same things as me. I blew through our traditional high school's course work, and wanted more of a challenge. I don't ever regret the decision my parents and I made. They weren't trying to push me to say they had a child that graduated college at a young age. They let me make the decision.

And I will tell you something else, almost all of the kids I went to school with are very successful, and well-rounded individuals. Most have gone on to pursue Master's. Others who were able to participate in the wonderful arts program at our college have gone on to dance on Broadway and with traveling Ballet companies. One of my fellow classmates is even in MIT in the Astronautical program training to become an Astronaut.

There was never a problem with drugs or drinking in our school. No cliques (granted we didn't really have enough students to have cliques). Everyone was friends with everyone else. We all were there for a common goal.

While I do agree with you that most 16 year old's are not ready for a college environment, please don't stereotype all of us. It was very difficult at times and required a lot of discipline on my part. It prepared me for a four year University in a big way. I knew the structure of college coursework and still had a blast in college!!

This doesn't work for all people. Like a pp said, if your child is very into the high school experience it's probably not he best option. At our traditional high school, I was one of those kids who didn't have a whole lot of friends. Ate lunch in the library while I studied. Even had a few girls who were very mean to me, just because I did well on my school work. When I went into the high school/college program I flourished. I made many friends who are still my best friends to this day! I ran for our student government, participated in school activities, and even helped organize some of those said activities. It doesn't work for everyone but I am so blessed to have been a part of such a wonderful experience!!

You did this 30 years ago, a lot has changed, including the fact that most parents won't even let a 14 year old stay home alone, let alone go take college classes. Also, your experience is different as this article is talking about kids GRADUATING from high school early and going to community college. In our state the kids take classes at the university, with the kids in the university, not just a bunch of other high school kids. I am sorry but a 16 year old is NOT mature enough to be IN college, period.

 

[Eeyores#1Fan]

My 8th grader has applied for Early College HS here in NC. It's set up where they take all their HS courses the first two years and then college level courses their Jr/Sr year. It's also been designed where the college courses they take will transfer to schools in state like ECU, Duke, UNC, etc. with no problems. I do think a parent should strongly consider their childs maturity level before considering a program like this as each child/person is different. We have no problems seeing our daughter cont. to grow in this type of environment and when she graduates she'll start college as a Jr. It's part of our public school system so we don't have to pay for books, tuition, nothing. As it is, most of the 8th graders (including her) are in AP English and either Algebra or Geometry and receiving HS credits for these classes. It would be crazy not to have other options they could consider vs just taking a bunch of electives their 12th grade year. This of course is just my opinion. We each have to do what we feel comfortable with.

 

[Melissa<3Disney]

You did this 30 years ago, a lot has changed, including the fact that most parents won't even let a 14 year old stay home alone, let alone go take college classes. Also, your experience is different as this article is talking about kids GRADUATING from high school early and going to community college. In our state the kids take classes at the university, with the kids in the university, not just a bunch of other high school kids. I am sorry but a 16 year old is NOT mature enough to be IN college, period.

I'm only 24.. I did this 8 years ago. And I said that it depended on what kind of environment the 16 year old was put into. I know what the article stated. I was just stating my experiences with our program. Although we had the support of our "high school" we still attended the college courses with other college students not just other high school students. We were responsible for all of our course work, interacted with the college students, and participated in college activities as well. Although I chose not to befriend and hang out with the college students, some of our high school students did and they turned out just fine. I guess we will just agree to disagree.

 

[Sparx]

I don't care how mature someone thinks a 13 year old it, the are NOT mature enough to hang out with college students but unfortunately there will be plenty of parents that force this because then they can say 'well my child graduated high school when they were 15".

I would say that my 14 year old are more RESPONSIBLE then our 17 year old but they are in no way more mature.

There are plenty of bright kids in the world, even in the US but I have yet to see one that is truly ready to be "in college" at 16 years old.

i was "in college" at sixteen. and i'm still alive.

i handled it just fine, and i've never, in my life, failed a class. blanket statements.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

A word of caution with dual enrollment....a lot of the better colleges really frown upon this and it cost the student scholarship $$. The reason is, take a Calculus class for example...At a community college, you might have a different level of rigor and might cover a different amount than at a neighboring college. All English 1 classes at college are different. No standardization. But AP are highly standardized and will not differ mush from one school to the next. They are also known for their rigor. So a student with several AP's will get more $$ than a student with several duals. My hubby is a VP at a college and this is first hand info. It won't matter if you are going to community college anyway, but if you have your sights set on a prestigious university, you will get more $$ with APs.
Alicia

I was reading over the course catalog for the college my dd attends, she is a freshman.

So my 13yodd says she wants a business degree, so I flip to it and find out the prereqs for grins.

Basically if she gets a 26 & up on the ACT in math, she can enter Calculus and skip over the 2 math classes.

Honestly it is all about the SAT/ACT from where I sit. The colleges really could less about Dual Enrollment vs AP. Although I will have to say that with AP if you get a 4/5 on the test you could possibly skip a class in your required list. However it depends on what your degree program is if they even accept an AP, SAT, ACT score to get to a higher level in your degree program. Your degree program may require you take this class, period. No option out.

Of course there is the other side of the coin. Most college freshman on my dd's floor entered into a higher level of math and you kind of have to in order to get your degree program done in a reasonable time frame, these are the pre-med/engineering people.

Of course this is not "ivy" just Mizzou, which is one of our big state schools here in MO.

My 13yo is getting HS credit for French in 7th/8th grade. It will count toward her tally, but not included in her GPA for HS.

Bottom line, options are a good thing. What works for one student does not work for another.

 

[LisaR]

I don't care how mature someone thinks a 13 year old it, the are NOT mature enough to hang out with college students but unfortunately there will be plenty of parents that force this because then they can say 'well my child graduated high school when they were 15".

I would say that my 14 year old are more RESPONSIBLE then our 17 year old but they are in no way more mature.

There are plenty of bright kids in the world, even in the US but I have yet to see one that is truly ready to be "in college" at 16 years old.

There is a huge difference between a community college and a 4 year university. The article is referring to community college for their final two years. The one my DD is attending is nothing more than glorified high school and that has always been my impression of most CC. It certainly isn't for everyone but I am so happy that there are options available to motivated, mature kids. I know many that have gone this route and they are doing great.

A word of caution with dual enrollment....a lot of the better colleges really frown upon this and it cost the student scholarship $$. The reason is, take a Calculus class for example...At a community college, you might have a different level of rigor and might cover a different amount than at a neighboring college. All English 1 classes at college are different. No standardization. But AP are highly standardized and will not differ mush from one school to the next. They are also known for their rigor. So a student with several AP's will get more $$ than a student with several duals. My hubby is a VP at a college and this is first hand info. It won't matter if you are going to community college anyway, but if you have your sights set on a prestigious university, you will get more $$ with APs.
Alicia

In terms of scholarship money, if a student gets X amount of credit hours (it varies depending on the university) they will become transfer students instead of freshman when they move onto a university. If they go in as transfer students, they will not be eligible for freshman scholarships. Obviously this is something every family needs to consider. In my DD case, we feel that attending CC for free and getting all of her basics out of the way will be more of a cost saver than a freshman scholarship. Of the kids I know that have received these types of scholarships, it has been a few thousand dollars toward tuition. Since I have yet to find a college DD is interested in that is less than $30,000, we will take our chances with free tuition at the CC.

In terms of AP vs. dual enrollment, again it all depends on the university. The ones I have checked into welcome dual enrolled students. My DD doesn't have any intention of going to an ivy league school. Some colleges love AP's and others recognize that everyone and their brother now takes AP's and they aren't as special as they were originally intended. In addition, the AP classes are useless if they don't pass the test and too many kids are failing. Please do not think I am knocking AP's but there are positives and negatives of AP's and DE. The university will have the final say and right now there are plenty that are fine with both. In both cases, you are taking a chance because there are universities that will not count AP work and others that won't accept DE credits. I almost wish there was some sort of across the board standard (although I see the issues with that, as well).

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Why do we want/encourage our children to grow up so soon? I don't have a problem with the program, but I wouldn't let my boys participate.

 

[tasha99]

You did this 30 years ago, a lot has changed, including the fact that most parents won't even let a 14 year old stay home alone, let alone go take college classes. Also, your experience is different as this article is talking about kids GRADUATING from high school early and going to community college. In our state the kids take classes at the university, with the kids in the university, not just a bunch of other high school kids. I am sorry but a 16 year old is NOT mature enough to be IN college, period.

I'm sorry, but I was. I had enough credits to graduate 2 years early (I went to college from 16-18, not a high school/college program, but a regular 4 year university, then decided to join the military.) Not every teenager is immature. I'm not saying I was completely grown up, but 18 year olds generally aren't either. I always had friends who were older than me, and going to college early just put me in with the group of kids I was most comfortable with.

 

[barkley]

There is a huge difference between a community college and a 4 year university. The article is referring to community college for their final two years. The one my DD is attending is nothing more than glorified high school and that has always been my impression of most CC. It certainly isn't for everyone but I am so happy that there are options available to motivated, mature kids. I know many that have gone this route and they are doing great.



In terms of scholarship money, if a student gets X amount of credit hours (it varies depending on the university) they will become transfer students instead of freshman when they move onto a university. If they go in as transfer students, they will not be eligible for freshman scholarships. Obviously this is something every family needs to consider. In my DD case, we feel that attending CC for free and getting all of her basics out of the way will be more of a cost saver than a freshman scholarship. Of the kids I know that have received these types of scholarships, it has been a few thousand dollars toward tuition. Since I have yet to find a college DD is interested in that is less than $30,000, we will take our chances with free tuition at the CC.

In terms of AP vs. dual enrollment, again it all depends on the university. The ones I have checked into welcome dual enrolled students. My DD doesn't have any intention of going to an ivy league school. Some colleges love AP's and others recognize that everyone and their brother now takes AP's and they aren't as special as they were originally intended. In addition, the AP classes are useless if they don't pass the test and too many kids are failing. Please do not think I am knocking AP's but there are positives and negatives of AP's and DE. The university will have the final say and right now there are plenty that are fine with both. In both cases, you are taking a chance because there are universities that will not count AP work and others that won't accept DE credits. I almost wish there was some sort of across the board standard (although I see the issues with that, as well).

we're lucky with the way our dual enrollment program is set up. the in state universities say that a student who earned college units prior to high school graduation through the program can apply as a freshman so they CAN qualify for freshman scholarships.

if a kid does the program through the university near us they are saving upwards of $16,000 in tuition (if they take classes 4 quarters/both jr. and senior year) before they graduate from high school AND THEN b/c they are considered freshman for applications/scholarship purposes-if they have a high enough gpa they can qualify for a renewable state scholarship that saves them another $1500 for each of the next years until they earn their degree.

i don't know many if any kids who despite taking all the a.p. classes available that have been offered scholarships that shave 60% of the cost of their tuition off for their entire college educations.

i think these programs offer tremendous financial advantages for kids who are a good fit for what they demand.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Barkley, our HS considers classifies "dual-enrollement" as still being in HS. I suspect all HS do this.

The reason you are considered a "freshman" is because you have not graduated from HS yet. Technically you are still a HSer as you have not been released.

You make a good argument for dual enrollment. I am not to that bridge with my youngest. It helps that she is focused on school unlike her sister who is still figuring things out.

 

[golfgal]

we're lucky with the way our dual enrollment program is set up. the in state universities say that a student who earned college units prior to high school graduation through the program can apply as a freshman so they CAN qualify for freshman scholarships.

if a kid does the program through the university near us they are saving upwards of $16,000 in tuition (if they take classes 4 quarters/both jr. and senior year) before they graduate from high school AND THEN b/c they are considered freshman for applications/scholarship purposes-if they have a high enough gpa they can qualify for a renewable state scholarship that saves them another $1500 for each of the next years until they earn their degree.

i don't know many if any kids who despite taking all the a.p. classes available that have been offered scholarships that shave 60% of the cost of their tuition off for their entire college educations.

i think these programs offer tremendous financial advantages for kids who are a good fit for what they demand.

This is how our program is set up as well. The benefit of doing this isn't so you can get into a more selective school, the benefit comes from saving money down the road.