Hey...Teacher...leave those projects at school!!!

[roseaster]

Yes, in all all my years in school and with all my kids going to school I have seen 2 deliberately unkind teachers (and they were mine)

I realize that, sometimes, on these boards it is popular to trash teachers or schools, but, in my experience, most teachers really want to help their students.

I am sure that if it were the case that a student wanted to be part of a group and every single group in the class shunned him/her that the teacher would make allowances for this by either allowing the student to complete a smaller amount of the project or by assigning groups.

That wasn't the case here, and it has never been suggested it was. The case here was that a student chose not to join a group because she preferred to focus on a sport. I am sure that the student was informed before she chose to work alone that she would have to compete the entire project on her own.

I agree there are always issues with group projects. It seems like you always have "that one," but as high school students kids should know how to deal with "that one."

 

[Snap Crackle Pop]

I don't argue against the majority for fu - it just seems that I have a different viewpoint in many topics from some on here.

But again you aren't getting to the root of why the teacher has decided that those not part of a group should have to do all 3 in the first place.
When they teacher was planning her lesson-what reasoning did she have behind deciding the requirement for all 3 course for an individual vs 3 course for 3 people in a group.
Are the groups required to cook all 3 together? Or can each group member make 1 course each?

Once again you are assuming that the teacher knew there would be students who refused to be in a group, and used the excuse of having extra curricular activities as to why they don't want to be in a group. So they told them they would still have to do the 3 entrees that the other groups are doing, and they accepted it clearly and are old enough to accept the choices they made.
Chances are most group members cooked together.

 

[roseaster]

I think the teacher either needs to decide that being in a group is part of the project or not-is working as a group was part of the learning objective then it should have been set and assessed as such.
But again we are back to the only reason for an individual being required to do all 3 is because the teacher said so. But you don't seem capable of discussing why the teacher decided this and if it was a reasonable decision.

I don't argue against the majority for fu - it just seems that I have a different viewpoint in many topics from some on here.

But again you aren't getting to the root of why the teacher has decided that those not part of a group should have to do all 3 in the first place.
When they teacher was planning her lesson-what reasoning did she have behind deciding the requirement for all 3 course for an individual vs 3 course for 3 people in a group.
Are the groups required to cook all 3 together? Or can each group member make 1 course each?

None of that matters. The project was to prepare a complete meal, appetizer, entree, and dessert and do a powerpoint presentation on it. The students were given the option of either working in a group or working individually, but the the project was a complete meal with a powerpoint presentation.

Most kids chose to work in a group to lighten the load. The OP's child did not because she preferred to concentrate on soccer. Other children chose to work alone for what ever reason they chose. Other children chose to work in a group.

When I did this project a million moons ago, we cooked individually, but coordinated with each other and decided what country the meal would be from, and who would prepare what part of the meal. Each was responsible for their own presentation. I was before powerpoint.

When my girls did it they cooked individually. One daughter met her group at the school library once to put together the powerpoint, the other just worked on the powerpoint online with her group.

This is really a super common assignment.

There were 3 choices. Work with a group. Work individually and do all 3 courses. Work individually and do as much as you think is fair. The OP's kid chose #2.

Adding all kinds of hypothetical situations or demanding reasons doesn't matter. It doesn't change the assignment. The assignment was a full meal.

 

[Aliceacc]

I think that many here would be stunned at the kindness of kids. I read so much about how awful kids-- particularly teens-- are. I must state, once again, that in 30+ years in the classroom, that has not been my experience.

Take yesterday. It was the second day of classes. I have cafeteria duty, where 650 kids had 34 minutes to find their friends, find a table, eat and clean up. I was scurrying around, trying to make sure that everyone had a seat-- harder than you might think during these first days.

I came up a sophomore boy sitting alone. I asked him whether he was waiting for his friends, or whether I could have other kids join him. He said he was a new transfer, didn't know anyone, and was sitting alone.

The Junior girls at the next table overheard, and invited him-- jokingly insisted-- that he join them. They had never met, they shared no classes, but they didn't want him eating alone.

Another example: a good decade ago, I had a girl who marched to the beat of another whole band. She had serious trouble fitting in.

It came time for the Senior prom, and she went stag-- not terribly uncommon. A free photo was included in the prom bid, and she was prepared to take it alone. One of the guys in her math class, a really popular kid, saw that she was about to take the picture alone, and jumped in to take it with her. A small action on his part,probably one he's never thought of since.

But she was killed in a car accident shortly after graduation. At her wake, her sister in law told me that that prom picture had been one of K's most prized possessions.

Kids are incredibly kind. Don't believe the bad rap they get from some adults. They'll happily include a kid if that kid wants to be included.


In my experience:
- Kids like projects. They're a welcome interruption of the normal routine, and a chance to get a good test grade-- or two test grades-- for work they can do with friends.

- Parents like those high test grades. In my experience, kids rarely receive a poor test grade for a project. Parents also love seeing all those projects when they're put on display.

Some kids CHOOSE to work alone, for any of a variety of reasons. In choosing to do so, they're choosing to do more work than they would as part of a group. That's not the fault of the teacher, the project, or the other kids.

Also, for what it's worth: with current technology, the OP's daughter could easily have coordinated with other group members and still concentrated on soccer. Those group meetings we all remember are largely unnecessary now-- they can be done via text, email, or Skype. She made the decision not to be part of a group. In doing so, she was choosing to do the whole project alone. Her choice.

 

[gwynne]

I think the teacher either needs to decide that being in a group is part of the project or not-is working as a group was part of the learning objective then it should have been set and assessed as such.
But again we are back to the only reason for an individual being required to do all 3 is because the teacher said so. But you don't seem capable of discussing why the teacher decided this and if it was a reasonable decision.

It's possible to disagree on issues and still practice common courtesy.

Now, back to the topic at hand...
JMO- It's reasonable for a teacher to assign groups in the very young grades. Once a student reaches middle school and beyond, they should be able to process the basic steps that are required to complete a class assignment.

 

[DanceswithDisney]

The child did not choose to join a group. She thought her comittments outside of school would conflict. Yes she brought this on herself, but I do blame the teacher for assigning all three to those who could not work in a group for whatever reason. The blame lies solely on the teacher.

 

[Missy1961]

I think that many here would be stunned at the kindness of kids. I read so much about how awful kids-- particularly teens-- are. I must state, once again, that in 30+ years in the classroom, that has not been my experience.

Take yesterday. It was the second day of classes. I have cafeteria duty, where 650 kids had 34 minutes to find their friends, find a table, eat and clean up. I was scurrying around, trying to make sure that everyone had a seat-- harder than you might think during these first days.

I came up a sophomore boy sitting alone. I asked him whether he was waiting for his friends, or whether I could have other kids join him. He said he was a new transfer, didn't know anyone, and was sitting alone.

The Junior girls at the next table overheard, and invited him-- jokingly insisted-- that he join them. They had never met, they shared no classes, but they didn't want him eating alone.

Another example: a good decade ago, I had a girl who marched to the beat of another whole band. She had serious trouble fitting in.

It came time for the Senior prom, and she went stag-- not terribly uncommon. A free photo was included in the prom bid, and she was prepared to take it alone. One of the guys in her math class, a really popular kid, saw that she was about to take the picture alone, and jumped in to take it with her. A small action on his part,probably one he's never thought of since.

But she was killed in a car accident shortly after graduation. At her wake, her sister in law told me that that prom picture had been one of K's most prized possessions.

Kids are incredibly kind. Don't believe the bad rap they get from some adults. They'll happily include a kid if that kid wants to be included.


In my experience:
- Kids like projects. They're a welcome interruption of the normal routine, and a chance to get a good test grade-- or two test grades-- for work they can do with friends.

- Parents like those high test grades. In my experience, kids rarely receive a poor test grade for a project. Parents also love seeing all those projects when they're put on display.

Some kids CHOOSE to work alone, for any of a variety of reasons. In choosing to do so, they're choosing to do more work than they would as part of a group. That's not the fault of the teacher, the project, or the other kids.

Also, for what it's worth: with current technology, the OP's daughter could easily have coordinated with other group members and still concentrated on soccer. Those group meetings we all remember are largely unnecessary now-- they can be done via text, email, or Skype. She made the decision not to be part of a group. In doing so, she was choosing to do the whole project alone. Her choice.

So many great points here. I'm not a teacher, but I've seen more kindness from kids than anything else. But it's nice to read proof of it.

And I was thinking of how with today's technology, you don't need to be in the same room to work together anymore. Facetime, Google Docs, etc. are great tools for group projects. Heck, you don't need to be in the same country anymore!

 

[DanceswithDisney]

Yesterday I spent way too much time on items for the science project. I wish my kid could partner with a kid who also didn't have extra curricular activities. We have to give up soccer practice tonight so they can work on it because the other kids is into horses and will be gone all weekend. *Roll eyes*. The items I bought could have easily been provided by the district and the project could be completed in class. It is asinine to expect a parent to spend valuable time and money driving around looking for these items.

 

[msjprincess]

I think that many here would be stunned at the kindness of kids. I read so much about how awful kids-- particularly teens-- are. I must state, once again, that in 30+ years in the classroom, that has not been my experience.

Take yesterday. It was the second day of classes. I have cafeteria duty, where 650 kids had 34 minutes to find their friends, find a table, eat and clean up. I was scurrying around, trying to make sure that everyone had a seat-- harder than you might think during these first days.

I came up a sophomore boy sitting alone. I asked him whether he was waiting for his friends, or whether I could have other kids join him. He said he was a new transfer, didn't know anyone, and was sitting alone.

The Junior girls at the next table overheard, and invited him-- jokingly insisted-- that he join them. They had never met, they shared no classes, but they didn't want him eating alone.

Another example: a good decade ago, I had a girl who marched to the beat of another whole band. She had serious trouble fitting in.

It came time for the Senior prom, and she went stag-- not terribly uncommon. A free photo was included in the prom bid, and she was prepared to take it alone. One of the guys in her math class, a really popular kid, saw that she was about to take the picture alone, and jumped in to take it with her. A small action on his part,probably one he's never thought of since.

But she was killed in a car accident shortly after graduation. At her wake, her sister in law told me that that prom picture had been one of K's most prized possessions.

Kids are incredibly kind. Don't believe the bad rap they get from some adults. They'll happily include a kid if that kid wants to be included.


In my experience:
- Kids like projects. They're a welcome interruption of the normal routine, and a chance to get a good test grade-- or two test grades-- for work they can do with friends.

- Parents like those high test grades. In my experience, kids rarely receive a poor test grade for a project. Parents also love seeing all those projects when they're put on display.

Some kids CHOOSE to work alone, for any of a variety of reasons. In choosing to do so, they're choosing to do more work than they would as part of a group. That's not the fault of the teacher, the project, or the other kids.

Also, for what it's worth: with current technology, the OP's daughter could easily have coordinated with other group members and still concentrated on soccer. Those group meetings we all remember are largely unnecessary now-- they can be done via text, email, or Skype. She made the decision not to be part of a group. In doing so, she was choosing to do the whole project alone. Her choice.

Excellent point. I have 3 kids. They all have extracurricular activities. We have something going on almost every day. But they still make group projects work even if they can't be in the same room physically.

 

[cabanafrau]

It's possible to disagree on issues and still practice common courtesy.

Now, back to the topic at hand...
JMO- It's reasonable for a teacher to assign groups in the very young grades. Once a student reaches middle school and beyond, they should be able to process the basic steps that are required to complete a class assignment.

Don't know about anyone else, but when someone repeatedly tosses out bon mots such as questioning a person's capability of discussing something or another person's capacity to engage in debate it actually makes me question why they're so challenged by opinions and ideas that don't comport with their own and what their purpose for participating in discussions could possibly be.

 

[kamik86]

But the student didn't have to cook a three course meal. She chose to.
That's a consequence of opting to not join a group. Following all of the assignment steps would have saved both time and money.

It is a parental choice if they want to make an issue of this or not.
Me? I'd work with my student to make sure they understood that they don't get to pick and choose what parts of an assignment they wish to do. Paying attention and following directions is often part of the assignment process. I wouldn't blame the teacher or admin for a choice my student made.

I disagree that a student doesn'tget to pick and choose what parts of an assignment to do.

One thing I noticed in college classes is that most projects had a grading rubric you got before the class started. It told you what parts of the project were worth.

I definitely had a few weeks that were so busy in grad school that I purposely left out parts and just knew I was ok with the grade I would get (this works well with computer science projects becuase you knew if you met the criteria or not, its not like you could accidenly do something wrong, either it worked or it didn't.

The one I remember most was for a database class where the project required a full graphical interface alongw ith a bunch of reports in a language I didn't know well. But the entire graphics interface was woth only 5% of the grade. I was good at databases but not at graphics and knew it would take me just as long if not LONGER to make the graphical interface then to do all the backend database work that I was interested in (and was the point of the course) so I didn't do one. I made a command line program and included the readme that I did that and how it worked. I got a 95. Which is still an A and was totaly worth the hours of time I got to spend on something else.

This also translates to the real world. My customer has X dollars and needs a solution by Y date. Sometimes they want somethign unreasonable and I realize I can either give them 95% of what they want on Y date or they could have all of what they want for X+Z dollars 6 months late. Knowing how to figure outwhat things aren't as important is a huge part of the job because often you can give them a system on time that is so close to what they want they are ok waiting a bit longer for those few extra things.

 

[gwynne]

I disagree that a student doesn'tget to pick and choose what parts of an assignment to do.

One thing I noticed in college classes is that most projects had a grading rubric you got before the class started. It told you what parts of the project were worth.

I definitely had a few weeks that were so busy in grad school that I purposely left out parts and just knew I was ok with the grade I would get (this works well with computer science projects becuase you knew if you met the criteria or not, its not like you could accidenly do something wrong, either it worked or it didn't.

The one I remember most was for a database class where the project required a full graphical interface alongw ith a bunch of reports in a language I didn't know well. But the entire graphics interface was woth only 5% of the grade. I was good at databases but not at graphics and knew it would take me just as long if not LONGER to make the graphical interface then to do all the backend database work that I was interested in (and was the point of the course) so I didn't do one. I made a command line program and included the readme that I did that and how it worked. I got a 95. Which is still an A and was totaly worth the hours of time I got to spend on something else.

This also translates to the real world. My customer has X dollars and needs a solution by Y date. Sometimes they want somethign unreasonable and I realize I can either give them 95% of what they want on Y date or they could have all of what they want for X+Z dollars 6 months late. Knowing how to figure outwhat things aren't as important is a huge part of the job because often you can give them a system on time that is so close to what they want they are ok waiting a bit longer for those few extra things.

(My post you quoted reflected my thoughts on students in middle school and to some extent high school.)
While some middle school classroom teachers may designate a particular assignment "À la carte" for the most part that's not the rule. They are teaching study skills and work habits in addition to specific grade level academic goals.

It is generally assumed adult high school graduates who are in a college environment don't need their study skills and work habits monitored.
One of the great things about becoming an adult is you have a lot more autonomy. Your post shows how it can be used in a positive way.

 

[sam_gordon]

We have to give up soccer practice tonight so they can work on it because the other kids is into horses and will be gone all weekend. *Roll eyes*.

I've stayed out of this, but please tell me you aren't criticizing the other family for being involved in a weekend activity.

 

[Snap Crackle Pop]

The child did not choose to join a group. She thought her comittments outside of school would conflict. Yes she brought this on herself, but I do blame the teacher for assigning all three to those who could not work in a group for whatever reason. The blame lies solely on the teacher.

Nope. The student, they chose to work alone.. they face those consequences.

 

[roseaster]

Yesterday I spent way too much time on items for the science project. I wish my kid could partner with a kid who also didn't have extra curricular activities. We have to give up soccer practice tonight so they can work on it because the other kids is into horses and will be gone all weekend. *Roll eyes*. The items I bought could have easily been provided by the district and the project could be completed in class. It is asinine to expect a parent to spend valuable time and money driving around looking for these items.

I guess I am not sure why you keep your child enrolled in a school system that is unable to provide her with the type of education that you find appropriate. This is the 2nd teacher with whom you have an issue, so it is, apparently, the district.

If felt my children were being inappropriately educated or not educated to our standards I would move them to a private school that was more in line with our theory of education. It would probably be good for you to explore your options for appropriate education before she gets too far into the school year.

 

[Aliceacc]

One question: when were these projects assigned?

Maybe it's just the fact that my feet hurt and it's 90 something degrees, but these posts read as though everything else had to be put on hold because the project was due immediately.

That has not been my experience, either as a teacher or the mom of 3 teens. I've always found that with reasonable time management skills on the part of my kids, I was able to get them the supplies they needed at pretty much my own convenience.

 

[DanceswithDisney]

I've stayed out of this, but please tell me you aren't criticizing the other family for being involved in a weekend activity.

Where did you read I was?

 

[Dentam]

We have to give up soccer practice tonight so they can work on it because the other kids is into horses and will be gone all weekend. *Roll eyes*.

Where did you read I was?

I think it was the statement above.

 

[sam_gordon]

Where did you read I was?

Since I quoted you, wouldn't it be obvious I was referring to the quote? If that's not what you meant, I apologize. But I wasn't the only one who took your statement that way.

 

[mom2rtk]

Always follow the rolling eyes.