Hey parents! Are you raising a generation of nincompoops?

[MrsPete]

I dont know, I didnt get that the author was really complaining about he kid not using the ice cube tray or the girl with the can opener ignorance, its more that kids these days seem to not be very good at solving issues when technology is not involved and I happen to agree with him.

Yes, this is what I see too: A lack of ability or interest in solving problems for themselves -- largely because other people have been so quick to jump in and do it for them.

I've been teaching for 19 years, and I've definitely seen an increase in the average student's "helplessness" over that time.

My 3 year old doesn't know how to tie his shoes yet, but he can find his favorite videos on Youtube.

Kids in this generation are wired differently and they are more adaptable to technology. That is preparing them for the future. They aren't going to get a job filling ice trays.

Agree and disagree . . . our top kids, our brightest kids are wired differently. They've embraced technology and are eons ahead of us old folks in terms of being able to use it for their benefit. But the average and below average students just know how to do flashy things with computers (surf the net, use Power Point), but they don't really know how to problem solve when the computer doesn't do just what they want it to do, and they can't do simple tasks like attach a file to an email.

Exactly!! Or Do your kids know how to use a dial (rotary) phone? Would they even have a clue what one WAS if they saw it OR would they just stare at it and go "how do I use this thing?"

My own kids have never seen a rotary phone, BUT I feel sure that if confronted with one, they would be baffled for a moment but would be self-sufficient enough to fiddle with it, experiment, push some buttons . . . and I feel sure they'd figure it out.

MANY of my students would not try. They'd just say, "I don't know how to do it" and would wait for someone to save them from an unknown situation.

And this isn't just about ice trays and rotary phones, neither of which is likely to make a come-back anytime soon. It's about too many kids today not knowing how to do MANY things on their own: Drive a straight-drive car, plant a tomato plant, bake a loaf of bread or cook a meal from scratch, hem a pair of pants, navigate a car without GPS, etc. I have the impression that MANY of my students are missing basic, basic skills.

I don't know how to churn butter. Am I a nincompoop?

I can churn butter. I can do lots of things along that line, and I like knowing that -- if necessary -- I could do those things. I have just enough "society could collapse" fear in me that I appreciate this knowledge and have passed it along to my kids.

 

[rie'smom]

My kids were much more able than I was. When I was married I couldn't hold a broom, had to call my mom to ask her hot to cook a hot dog. Forget polishing furniture. I would use 1/4 of a can on my dining room furniture. Imagine though I'm 52 and have raised 3 self sufficient children. There is hope.

 

[pandora174]

A little OT but similar subject. This year DS7 changed from a small private school to a large private school. His old school was more basics kind of teaching & what attracted us to this school more opportunities for DS.

Well orientation night, we are gathered with the teacher & she straight faced & very serious tells us parents. " In 2nd grade the children are expected to sharpen their own pencils, read the instructions on their own for classwork & hand me their lunch cards" There were gasps from parents

DH & I looked at each other & DS looked at me & whispered " why are all the grown ups so worried about ?"

 

[Magpie]

So your mother walks around dressed up like Cogsworth?

Otherwise, how does wearing a watch equal "dressed like a timepiece"??

From the perspective of a child who would never actually wear a watch on her wrist, wearing one anywhere on your body is "dressing like a timepiece". Ie - using clothes (or jewelry) for telling time. It's weird from a kid perspective (where their watch is in their phone), but not so much from a grownup one (watch is on the wrist). My mom might as well be wearing a hat-watch or a t-shirt-watch instead of a wrist-watch, as far as my daughter is concerned.

I was just having a little fun with my mom's comment that my daughter was treating her like a "walking timepiece".

 

[Pixiedust34]

I don't know many adults who wear a watch anymore, either.

I see no need for a watch. A watch has batteries that need replacing, or needs to be wound. A watch can be slow or fast. Watches have to be worn, and remembered to be put on. Watches affect tan lines.

A phone's time is synced with cellphone towers, so it's always right, or at least very close to right.

Why should I wear a watch when I can just look at my phone?

I must be old fashioned because I feel naked without a watch. I wear one every day, and my watches are all analog Disney watches! My cell phone lives in my purse and it's a lot easier to glance at my wrist for the time than to dig the phone out of my purse.

My dh is a teacher and most of his 6th graders can't tell time on an analog clock and have no real concept of time. If the clock on his wall says it's 1:10 and class is over at 1:25, they have no clue how to read the clock and figure out how much time is left in class. That's sad.

ETA: We're really old fashoined here because we have ice cube trays and use them! : ) I'm proud to say that our kids know how to tell time and make ice.

 

[iNTeNSeBLue98]

I dont know, I didnt get that the author was really complaining about he kid not using the ice cube tray or the girl with the can opener ignorance, its more that kids these days seem to not be very good at solving issues when technology is not involved and I happen to agree with him.

I have no issues with adaptability,but kids today have grown up leaning on these so much that if they aren't there, they are lost. The art of being resourceful is getting lost IMO. If power went out and the computer wasn't available to write and research their paper, what would they do? Its this kind of thing. A library? an encyclopedia? a manual typewriter? Its not even that they don't know how to use them, they don't even know other resources exist!

Its not that they are nincompoops (I love that word) or useless, they just seem to have trouble being able to be "adaptable" when the technology they know isn't available. It's that whole, "why should I learn that if I don't need it" mentality.

I see it everyday and my sister who is a teacher sees it as well.. At times its comical and others, its worrisome.....

DD is 19 and still gets confused when I say "quarter of/til" or "quarter after" in terms of time. She doesn't understand that I mean 15 or 45 minutes after the hour. I don't think that it's a math thing, that she doesn't understand fractions, but more the fact that she has grown up with digital clocks everywhere. When she was about 5 I have given her a watch that had the 5,10, 15, etc markings in print. Beyond that it's been digital, on her mp3, on the computer, VCR, microwave, etc.

Just last week DD had her 17 yo friend over. She had no idea how to operate our manual can opener. She has always had an electric one. We've had both over the years, and it's those conveniences that we have grown to accept that these kids know nothing else but them.

The same could be said of banking. DD learned a little about writing checks and deposit slips in HS Economic, but in today's world we have internet banking, direct deposit, electronic drafts and ATMs everywhere. How often do we actually visit the branch and use the services of a Teller?

 

[golfgal]

DD is 19 and still gets confused when I say "quarter of/til" or "quarter after" in terms of time. She doesn't understand that I mean 15 or 45 minutes after the hour. I don't think that it's a math thing, that she doesn't understand fractions, but more the fact that she has grown up with digital clocks everywhere. When she was about 5 I have given her a watch that had the 5,10, 15, etc markings in print. Beyond that it's been digital, on her mp3, on the computer, VCR, microwave, etc.

Just last week DD had her 17 yo friend over. She had no idea how to operate our manual can opener. She has always had an electric one. We've had both over the years, and it's those conveniences that we have grown to accept that these kids know nothing else but them.

The same could be said of banking. DD learned a little about writing checks and deposit slips in HS Economic, but in today's world we have internet banking, direct deposit, electronic drafts and ATMs everywhere. How often do we actually visit the branch and use the services of a Teller?

Get a pie, cut it into 4 sections-the first section is 1/4 after the top of the pie/hour, the second section is 1/2 after, 3rd section is 1/4 'til...Sometimes putting it in simple terms sparks something for them.

 

[BernardandMissBianca]

.... a manual typewriter? Its not even that they don't know how to use them, they don't even know other resources exist!

DH and I were talking one day and I mentioned a typewriter and both my youngest boys asked in unison "What's a typewriter?" DH and I were like "HUH?!?!?" I pulled up images on the computer and they thought it was cool.
Fast forward a few months, we were at a town wide yard sale and found a typewriter, my kids were fascinated by it. They ended up taking it home (free, it was going to be tossed) and even ask to do homework on it but it's broken. I'm trying to find one that's in working order.

My wife started back to work and I started driving the kids around in my car. We would run to the store, then upon heading back to the car, they would run to the doors and start yanking on the handles.

"Come on Dad, unlock the doors already!"

"Hang on a minute...." as I walked to the driver's door and unlocked it with the key.

As soon as I unlock my door, they start yanking on their doors again, "Come on, they didn't unlock!"

Again, "hang on a minute...." as I opened my door to reach in and hit the unlock switch....

Heaven forbid if the car had a roll handle for the windows. What would have they thought of that?

LOL! On my new car if you have the keys near by, you just stick your hand on the handle and it unlocks. If the key is just in the car, you don't need to put it in the ignition switch to turn it on, you just push a button. When you go to lock the door with a button on the outside of the car, it won't lock if the keys are still inside. My older kids will know how deal with older cars but DD doesn't get why Ma (my mom) has to use her key to open the door.

Ha! If it makes you feel better, my just turned 9 year old son can't tie his shoes. I don't know why, he's tried! I always thought it was because he was a lefty-but I don't think I can use that excuse any more. LOL

When you help him do you face him or side beside him? I'm a lefty and my mom taught me by facing her, I could mirror her movements with my left hand.


As for velcro I refused to buy them until my kids knew how to tie laces. My mom works on day care and it drives her nuts that 4th and 5th graders can't tie shoes.
At our school the gym teacher has shoe tying lesson plan for the first and second graders.
Did you know Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter) has dyspraxia and can't tie his shoes??


As for the article itself, all I can say is "The only constant is change." I tell my kids that all the time.

 

[C.Ann]

It's about too many kids today not knowing how to do MANY things on their own: Drive a straight-drive car, plant a tomato plant, bake a loaf of bread or cook a meal from scratch, hem a pair of pants, navigate a car without GPS, etc. I have the impression that MANY of my students are missing basic, basic skills. I can churn butter. I can do lots of things along that line, and I like knowing that -- if necessary -- I could do those things. I have just enough "society could collapse" fear in me that I appreciate this knowledge and have passed it along to my kids.

This sums it up quite nicely.. All kids should know "basics" and many don't.. Without those basic survival skills, they would be in a boat load of trouble if our world of technology suddenly crashed..

There has to be a base - from which kids (or even adults) could draw on if need be, but for the most part it just doesn't exist anymore.. I have all of the basic survival skills you mentioned and more.. I could easily survive with next to nothing for a long, long time.. I don't know many other people that can say the same.. Even my 12 yr. old DGD knows basic survival skills - whether she finds herself out in the woods or in her home - when and if there's a large technology failure.. It's a parental responsibility to make sure that children have these skills, but too many parents rely on society always being stable - not capable of collapse.. It frightens me to think of so many people - adults and children alike - who are totally unprepared for a possibility we can't say will "never" happen..

 

[SandrA9810]

I don't know many adults who wear a watch anymore, either.

I see no need for a watch. A watch has batteries that need replacing, or needs to be wound. A watch can be slow or fast. Watches have to be worn, and remembered to be put on. Watches affect tan lines.

A phone's time is synced with cellphone towers, so it's always right, or at least very close to right.

Why should I wear a watch when I can just look at my phone?

If you work at Disney, you better have a watch synced with the correct time. You better not care about that fabulous watch tan line you will be getting for working outside day after day. And you better NOT EVER pull out a cell phone to check your time.

Disney Time = Atomic Clock time. And you better be on the ball, because 30 seconds too late can get you in trouble.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't think we have had an ice cube tray in our house in over 15 years, why would we need one? So what if kids don't know how to use an ice cube tray-they aren't essential to life.

Are you sure about that? The management company where I live isn't ever going to replace 500 basic refrigerators with ones that provide ice and ice water without opening the door.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I love the over-generalization in this article.

A 5-year old in a stroller could be for 100's of reasons. Perhaps the author would have preferred to see a 5-year old who didn't have a place to rest after walking several miles through Walt Disney World? A tired 5-year old is not fun at all.

Of course, if that was the case, than this author may be writing about all the "bratty, whiny" 5 year olds in society.

Sorry, but I can't stand people who try to paint such a broad picture of things. As we see everyday on the DIS, every person's situation is different.

As PP's have mentioned...don't have an ashtray? Why would your child know what they are? Don't have an ice cube tray? Why would you go out of your way to teach them about it?

I'm not so sure I'd agree it's overgeneralization. True, it's not the majority of kids - but it's enough kids that the author thouggh the article worthwhile, and so did msnbc. It's definitely a larger sampling than a five year old in a stroller (which, admit it, is most likely for the parents' convenience - but that's a discussion for a different thread ).

But respectfully, you're referring to issues about which this author didn't write -no ashtrays... ice cube trays, sure. I don't care what the most of the posters in this thread say - some of us have and may always have old-fangled stuff. Anybody's financial situation can change. I have neighbors whose kids may have started with ice-in-the-door refrigerators, but now - horrors! - they've learned to not only get ice out of a tray, but also how to make more ice!!!

 

[kaytieeldr]

What should we do? Live in the past because that generation knew how to do things that we don't need to know how to do now? Is the point of the article that kids are too pampered to learn how to do things that are currently still in place or that they should know how to do things that are clearly outdated and have been replaced with more modern technology?

If so, we should all attach the manual pencil sharpener to the nearest wall.
We should ditch our TV's and go back to those with rabbit ears.
We need homes with root cellars and where we grow our own food and can things for the winter months.
Ditch the airconditioning
Ditch the central heat.
Use the manual card files at the library.
Toss the computers. Go back to playing Pong - the first video game.
Party lines for phones.
Never talking long distance to a relative that moved away because long distance required operators and a lot of hefty phone charges.
Go back to using cell phones the size of a brick.
Go back to a shorter lifespan due to to lack of the medical knowledge we have now.

What's the point of that article? Things/life moves on...and each generation has to adapt and move forward. It's called PROGRESS.

Well, the difference is, you - we - can still DO most of those things, even if technology means it's no longer necessary. Plus, you're pulling from a variety of periods, but...
Sharpen a pencil? You betcha. I can even do it without a pencil sharpener. Badly, but I can do it in a pinch. Do we really NEED electric pencil sharpeners? Really? Cranking the manual sharpener, or twisting the pencil itself in a small plastic sharpener is THAT hard? But again, I digress
No, we don't need root cellars or to grow our own food. But there's nothing wrong with being able to do it.
Heat's a necessity. Air conditioning's a luxury. People survive without it. There've been these things called fans for ages. They can even be operated manually.
TV with rabbit ears? Seen the complaints about cable and satellite on these boards?
Toss the computers and play Pong? Really? Toss the computer period. No, I'm not advocating it, but if you're getting rid of technology, you can't go halfway.
Party lines for phones and never talk long distance due to cost? Again, really? It would cost more to eliminate the existing technology and bring back the 'old way'.
No cell phones, period. Those are WAY too new for the rest of your approximate mid-twentieth century recommendations.

I don't know how to churn butter. Am I a nincompoop?

Do you have kids? I learned how to churn butter - even, I think, make a basic churn - from either the boy scout or girl scout handbook.

 

[golfgal]

Are you sure about that? The management company where I live isn't ever going to replace 500 basic refrigerators with ones that provide ice and ice water without opening the door.

You can always buy a bag of ice .

 

[MrsPete]

DD is 19 and still gets confused when I say "quarter of/til" or "quarter after" in terms of time. She doesn't understand that I mean 15 or 45 minutes after the hour.

Kids who don't understand "quarter til" are often thrown off because they're thinking of MONEY, and they think 25 cents . . . 25 minutes. They fail to grasp the fractional portion of the thing. They fail to see that a quarter of something isn't 25 of something.

This sums it up quite nicely.. All kids should know "basics" and many don't.. Without those basic survival skills, they would be in a boat load of trouble if our world of technology suddenly crashed..

I agree with this on a personal level, but I think the larger picture is that so many kids just DON'T TRY to learn to do something.

They've learned, for example, that you heat up a plate of something in the microwave. If no microwave is available, well then, no hot food for you. They don't necessarily problem solve and say to themselves, "I'll put it in the oven." And then they're also quick to blame someone or something else: I was put into a bad situation. ___ didn't work. I couldn't do anything else. I had no choice. It's the lack of problem solving ability -- the failure to see options -- that concerns me, and I see it (or rather don't see it) in perhaps HALF my students. And more than a few adults too.

Are you sure about that? The management company where I live isn't ever going to replace 500 basic refrigerators with ones that provide ice and ice water without opening the door.

Yes, the basic-basic items will always exist, even if they aren't sold in large numbers.

 

[eeyore65]

After reading this yesterday, I was making dinner and decided to ask my 11 yo DS to open my can for me. I am happy to report he knew where the can opener was and how to use it!!

 

[SandrA9810]

I've actually seen a segment on TV about this author, and the way she raises her kids.

It's more about the idea of sending them into the world, even when they're young and make them think for themselves. Kid wants to get to a friend's house on the other side of town. Well sorry, mom's busy, but here's a few bucks to take the bus. Well the kid might not know a lot about the buses, but there's a stop down the road. So he walks to the bus stop and asks the driver how to get to where he needs to go. The kid is problem solving, thinking for himself.
In today's world, a parent would be like, "OK, hurry up sweetie, mommy has to get to work". And despite the fact that she'd be late for work, still takes the time to drop her kid off on the other side of town, because she doesn't want to inconvenience him or make him do something for himself.

I know many people are going to say "Not in my neighborhood". But generally, it's those cities that have the better bus system, and kids from all over the neighborhood are using the buses to get around.

 

[scrapquitler]

Kids who don't understand "quarter til" are often thrown off because they're thinking of MONEY, and they think 25 cents . . . 25 minutes. They fail to grasp the fractional portion of the thing. They fail to see that a quarter of something isn't 25 of something.

Ah, but it IS = 25 Percent

 

[kaytieeldr]

You can always buy a bag of ice .

I know you're joking, but why would anyone buy ice in the normal course of life when they could simply fill [provided] ice cube trays - and demonstrate twisting the tray to get ice, once, for someone who'd never seen this 'device' that's not outmoded but still sold (unlike, say, rotary phones )?

 

[jrmasm]

I know you're joking, but why would anyone buy ice in the normal course of life when they could simply fill [provided] ice cube trays - and demonstrate twisting the tray to get ice, once, for someone who'd never seen this 'device' that's not outmoded but still sold (unlike, say, rotary phones )?

Because buying a bag of ice is more efficient use of time. 20lb bag of ice costs $3 and can be purchased in about 30 different locations that I pass daily during my commute. Creating 20lbs of ice using trays would take forever. Makes sense to me.

I'm so glad to find out that my DD15 is a genius because she knows who to use a can opener.

I'm also sad to learn that I'm a moron because I can't churn butter.