Hey parents! Are you raising a generation of nincompoops?

[golfgal]

I don't think that the idea espoused in the article is that we should all become Luddites and go back in time; it is more an issue of what technologies that are STILL WIDELY IN USE that they do not know how to use, because of one of two possible reasons: 1) that no adult has bothered to teach them, or 2) that innate curiousity is going away. This second is the most troubling idea -- that if your first choice of method does not work for some reason, you just give up. I never saw that attitude when I was a kid, but I see my own kids default to that all the time unless I push them.

I grew up in the hurricane zone. One of the best things about that was that ALL OF US, regardless of age or socioeconomic status, always learned at least 2 different ways of doing any basic activity that affected survival. That's still pretty much the case in places where hurricanes are common. You SHOULD know more than one way to open a can, more than one way to open a car window, more than one way to cook a meal. The collateral benefit to understanding multiple ways of doing things is that if you know that there are at least 2 ways to do something, logic will tell you that there may be even more. As parents, we need to feed that most of all; the ability to think on your feet and solve problems when your technology fails -- because inevitably, at some point in your life, it will, and probably at a crucial moment.

Edited to add: I think that part of the problem (and I'm a bit guilty of it myself) is that technologies are changing SO fast these days that it is all I can do to keep up with them, let alone teach my children how to use the old ones. It is *so* important to make time to do it, though.

Here's a question to ponder: What do you do if your toilets won't flush for an extended period (make it simple, let's say for 4 days) -- not just the ones in your house, but every toilet in a 20-mile radius? You should have two alternative solutions for this problem.

I don't live in a hurricane zone or anywhere near a place where natural disasters are frequent enough to utilize any of these "survival" techniques yet our family would know enough to fill the tub with water to "flush" toilets or to use the back yard and bury it if need be. Our kids would know full well how to use a grill or start a cooking fire if we had no electricity. All it takes is one camping trip somewhere to figure these things out.

We don't have a phone book! I tell the kids to go look up the number on Canada411.

I think our city stopped automatically sending them out to households a couple years ago... Probably people were doing what we used to do, and just dumping them in the recycling bin. It's been a long time since I've seen an actual paper telephone book.

I WISH people would stop sending us phone books. I think we get 7 different phone books delivered to our door each year. It is "illegal" to throw them in the garbage or regular recycling here but no one has the phone book collection spots any more. We end up burning them in a bonfire.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I think the point in the article isn't that the kid couldn't use a can opener or knew how to get the ice out of the ice tray, but that they didn't even try. Wouldn't it bother you if your child, when faced with a new experience or foreign object, just stood there without making any attempt to figure out what to do? Granted, the article is a little heavy-handed with the generalities--but her point is well taken.

Agreed.

Let's say the power grid fails for one reason or another and it's up to each individual to figure out how to survive. With the 'techno' generation, they've just lost their ability to look anything up. It went with the power. Unless they can hook up with an older person or get themselves a gun and start killing people for their possessions, they'll be dead inside of two weeks to a month.

The rest of us would probably hit the library to figure out how to decontaminate water, build a home medical kit and preserve food. If the good 'ol card catalog was gone (and it probably is), we'd at least be able to figure out which part of the library to go to get this information.

We'd have real life skills that we could use to barter with others for stuff we don't have. So you can change the caption under a picture on your computer in less that five seconds? Big deal. Come see me when you've weaved a blanket and want to trade that for a loaf of bread that I've just made.

 

[MiniGirl]

I agree with many of you that say that our kids aren't nincompoops because they don't understand how to use outdated items. I also believe that if the author's children are confused by a clotheshanger that is squarely on her own shoulders. However, I agree that fewer children seem to be learning how to live on their own. Yes, they can do all sorts of amazing things on their phones or computers, but many of them can't cook themselves a meal or wash their own clothes. Many also seem to think cleaning a toilet beneath them as well. Of course, many of these kids eventually figure it out on their own. I know I did.

 

[kamik86]

For ice cube trays: I haven't used one in years. I don't have a fridge with ice in the door either... I just dont' need ice cubes. The drink just came out of the fride it is already cold. Why take up extra space in my glass?

My neices (15 and 16) can't tell time on an analog clock so I guess they don't teach that anymore around here, but I know they can do all the other things.

I know even when I was in school there were a few years where the direction for education was that we didn't need to know facts just how to look things up! If that is the attitude the kids are good because as they said they could go online and find out how to do the things they dont' know how.

My taillight went in my care one time. We looked up the manual online since I didn't have it. Carried the laptop out to the car and installed a new one following the directions.

I know how to figure out how to do something when I need it. That is what is important that you can lear new skills quickly because something new will come out and you may need it tomorrow. This works for old technologies as well.

 

[Magpie]

Agreed.

Let's say the power grid fails for one reason or another and it's up to each individual to figure out how to survive. With the 'techno' generation, they've just lost their ability to look anything up. It went with the power. Unless they can hook up with an older person or get themselves a gun and start killing people for their possessions, they'll be dead inside of two weeks to a month.

The rest of us would probably hit the library to figure out how to decontaminate water, build a home medical kit and preserve food. If the good 'ol card catalog was gone (and it probably is), we'd at least be able to figure out which part of the library to go to get this information.

We'd have real life skills that we could use to barter with others for stuff we don't have. So you can change the caption under a picture on your computer in less that five seconds? Big deal. Come see me when you've weaved a blanket and want to trade that for a loaf of bread that I've just made.

I think that's over stating things a bit.

Do you truly believe your kids couldn't survive? Because I know mine could.

Mine already know how to decontaminate water and they don't need to hit the library to figure it out either. Geesh... you've never had a boil water advisory? They're also perfectly capable of finding information at the library, it's a regular part of their school curriculum. My daughter has even churned butter at the museum, while my son has milked a cow and helped weave a chair. Do you think you could get milk out of a cow? It's not as easy as it looks and you can't learn it from a book.

We joke about the apocalypse, but my kids actually have a plan which involves raiding the local farm museum and making off with all their goats and chickens.

 

[golfgal]

Agreed.

Let's say the power grid fails for one reason or another and it's up to each individual to figure out how to survive. With the 'techno' generation, they've just lost their ability to look anything up. It went with the power. Unless they can hook up with an older person or get themselves a gun and start killing people for their possessions, they'll be dead inside of two weeks to a month.

The rest of us would probably hit the library to figure out how to decontaminate water, build a home medical kit and preserve food. If the good 'ol card catalog was gone (and it probably is), we'd at least be able to figure out which part of the library to go to get this information.

We'd have real life skills that we could use to barter with others for stuff we don't have. So you can change the caption under a picture on your computer in less that five seconds? Big deal. Come see me when you've weaved a blanket and want to trade that for a loaf of bread that I've just made.

This is just BS. Our kids know HOW to look things up in the library-it is just easier to walk over to the computer then it is to find a ride to the library. Necessity is the mother of invention and if they had to find a way to make a blanket, they certainly would.

 

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

whatever, I just think the author of that article needed to write something as her deadline approached.

like a lot of other posters have pointed out, its a situational need to learn different skills.

Don't know how to use a can opener? if you are hungry, and need to open the can, I bet you will figure it out within a few minutes!

I remember my grandparents talking about kids the same way. "kids these days don't even know how to milk a cow!" their parents buy sore-bought milk!
(i'm not kiding, my grandfather taught me how to milk a cow.)

did I ever need to milk a cow? nope! (it DID come in handy later in life, in another application, but we won't talk about it on the DIS!!)

the only thing I would worry about this up and coming geneation is not the reliance on technology, because we humans seem to love that sort of thing, but rather the lack of kids being independent.

 

[punkin]

This is just BS. Our kids know HOW to look things up in the library-it is just easier to walk over to the computer then it is to find a ride to the library. Necessity is the mother of invention and if they had to find a way to make a blanket, they certainly would.

yup...

BTW, my DD11 can crochet and knit (does it for fun). I am sure she could make a blanket if she had the thread. Of course she probably would have no idea how to shear a sheep, card the wool, and spin the thread. I prefer she use her time more appropriately.

The whole article is BS.

 

[mrodgers]

Here's a question to ponder: What do you do if your toilets won't flush for an extended period (make it simple, let's say for 4 days) -- not just the ones in your house, but every toilet in a 20-mile radius? You should have two alternative solutions for this problem.

Since I am male, in a public bathroom, for going "number 1" I would use a urinal. For the 2nd alternative solution, I would go behind a tree.

For going "number 2", I guess if I go by the example set by my coworkers, I would continue using the toilet, standing up if I have to, until I can pile it up any more no matter how high I try to stand. Yes, it did happen at work.

Not sure of the 2nd alternative to that. Perhaps go to alternative number 1 for going "number 1"?

 

[zachnsamsmommy]

Well...I am raising TWO nincompoops, I guess .

Older DS couldn't tie shoes until 3rd grade...MIL always bought him sketchers with velcro and he had no patience with me trying to teach him. I did start trying in kindergarden, but only succeeded when he had shoes he HAD to tie (yet he could tie advanced knots in cub scouts...go figure!).

DS2 still isn't potty trained...and he is almost 3 1/2. But in my defence, he is autistic, and didn't even walk until age 2...

Yes...I think I am a bit to blame in sheltering older DS from some things, but I am working harder now to make him independent. He will learn how to do his own laundry by 6th grade, just like I had to. And now that we are having baby #3, he is going to learn to do a lot more on his own...or else have to wait a looooon time for me to do it for him, lol.

 

[golfgal]

yup...

BTW, my DD11 can crochet and knit (does it for fun). I am sure she could make a blanket if she had the thread. Of course she probably would have no idea how to shear a sheep, card the wool, and spin the thread. I prefer she use her time more appropriately.

The whole article is BS.

That and if the whole power grid went down and people had to resort to making their own blankets, there would be stores full of textiles for several years to use.

 

[kacaju]

my SIL was upset at my neice's 3rd grade teacher for yelling at the parents at back to school night because half her class could not tie their shoes.

 

[bumbershoot]

Every generation has it's upgrades. Doesn't make them nincompoops, just makes them adaptable to today.

I agree.

Yes, but at least we could tie our shoelaces by 2nd grade.

My husband couldn't. Born in '72, had to either not take off his shoes at all during the day, or have velcro, until at some point beyond 3rd grade. He's SO happy that DS can do up his laces at 6 (I think he started doing it just before his 6th birthday though)...but he couldn't do it until he HAD lace-up shoes...and hubby was never given lace-up shoes until after he could do it (oh his mom is frustrating!).

If people haven't seen something, how can they know how to do it??? It seems really unfair to be so rude to people who haven't seen something in action.

Would I know what to do with a washboard? Would I know how to clean clothes on it? Not so much! Can I work ALL ice cube trays? NO! Some are really hard! And let's not get me started on some of the WEIRD can openers that have passed through my life...there was that one camping one that someone gave me...I never did figure out how on earth to use it!

Then again, I avoid pull-top cans with a passion, after slicing my knuckle to the bone with a can of tuna.

whatever, I just think the author of that article needed to write something as her deadline approached.

Agreed.

 

[allison443]

Agreed.

Let's say the power grid fails for one reason or another and it's up to each individual to figure out how to survive. With the 'techno' generation, they've just lost their ability to look anything up. It went with the power. Unless they can hook up with an older person or get themselves a gun and start killing people for their possessions, they'll be dead inside of two weeks to a month.

The rest of us would probably hit the library to figure out how to decontaminate water, build a home medical kit and preserve food. If the good 'ol card catalog was gone (and it probably is), we'd at least be able to figure out which part of the library to go to get this information.

We'd have real life skills that we could use to barter with others for stuff we don't have. So you can change the caption under a picture on your computer in less that five seconds? Big deal. Come see me when you've weaved a blanket and want to trade that for a loaf of bread that I've just made.

If the power grid fails, would the library be open?

 

[golfgal]

If the power grid fails, would the library be open?

 

[Elmo9607]

I'm sorry, but I think it's frightening that a teenager or pre-teen can't tell time on a non-digital clock. Does that mean at school and all they have are digital clocks? Or do they go throughout the day just not knowing what time it is? Wait, they have their cell phones to tell them what time it is. But really, what excuse is there for not being able to look at a simple wall clock and being able to tell what time it is?

I'm only 21 so I'm certainly not "stuck in my ways" but still. Geesh.

 

[Arielle22]

I'm sorry, but I think it's frightening that a teenager or pre-teen can't tell time on a non-digital clock. Does that mean at school and all they have are digital clocks? Or do they go throughout the day just not knowing what time it is? Wait, they have their cell phones to tell them what time it is. But really, what excuse is there for not being able to look at a simple wall clock and being able to tell what time it is?

I'm only 21 so I'm certainly not "stuck in my ways" but still. Geesh.

I am the poster who mentioned this.

Honestly I have never asked my daughter how she knows what time it is at school. They are not allowed to use cell phones so that is out. At home, we have one analog clock in our room but in the kitchen it is digital on the microwave and in the living room it is digitial on the cable box.

She is a smart girl but for some reason this escapes her.

I have heard the same issue being discussed on a local radio station. Several people called in saying their children could not tell analog time either.

I have also heard watch sales are down among younger people because they are used to having the time on their phones.

 

[golfgal]

I am the poster who mentioned this.

Honestly I have never asked my daughter how she knows what time it is at school. They are not allowed to use cell phones so that is out. At home, we have one analog clock in our room but in the kitchen it is digital on the microwave and in the living room it is digitial on the cable box.

She is a smart girl but for some reason this escapes her.

I have heard the same issue being discussed on a local radio station. Several people called in saying their children could not tell analog time either.

I have also heard watch sales are down among younger people because they are used to having the time on their phones.

When the kids were packing for marching band camp I asked if they had their watches. Their directors are 10 minutes early is on time type people and they needed to know what time it was and when to be places-DD just looked at me and said "um, mom, it's on my phone" . Ok, but I still like my watch.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I don't know many adults who wear a watch anymore, either.

I see no need for a watch. A watch has batteries that need replacing, or needs to be wound. A watch can be slow or fast. Watches have to be worn, and remembered to be put on. Watches affect tan lines.

A phone's time is synced with cellphone towers, so it's always right, or at least very close to right.

Why should I wear a watch when I can just look at my phone?

 

[NotUrsula]

If the power grid fails, would the library be open?

You bet. We don't use card catalogs anymore, but I can't begin to count the number of times that I have checked books out by hand using a legal pad during a power failure. Ironically (due to my previous post), the only reason that most public libraries that I know of will automatically shut down is lack of running water, because the health dept. mandates that. Even if the catalog doesn't work, we know where things are and can still help with what is in the hardcopy collections.

I think it's very easy to say that the premise of needing to broaden practical knowledge is ridiculous when you posit a doomsday scenario where our technology goes useless entirely and forever. You don't need Doomsday, though, all you need is a bad day. All that needs to happen is to lose a key server or have a transformer or a cell tower go down in order to be faced with a situation where you need to find temporary alternatives in order to go about your day. What matters is having the curiousity and creativity to think up those alternatives on your own or by speaking to real live people, without recourse to Google.

I don't think the shoe thing matters at all; there are many, many alternatives to tied shoes. The can opener matters, and so does the ice tray if you like ice. How to take a public bus on your own matters, too, and how to make change without a digital cash register to tell you how much is owed. How to open a stuck jar lid without smashing the jar is good to know, too. (I ran into that one in college, when some idiot I knew smashed the jar in an effort to open it to make spaghetti sauce, only to end up picking shards out of it.)

As to my previous question, the answer is that you need a shovel and something approximating a bucket. If you are lucky enough to have advance notice that the water will be off, you can collect enough to be able to do manual bucket flushes, but if you don't have water, then you have to dig a latrine and toss in a shovel of dirt every time you use it. (Pooping behind a bush may be easy, but if the entire city is doing it, it will become a health hazard REALLY quickly, and we won't even discuss the stench.)