Here now, I hate MM+

[mesaboy2]

FYI you have to pay for any "fast passes" at universal. Go on over there....less folks for the rest of us to wait behind!

How original.

 

[Laketravis]

In regards to FP line experience: I hadn't offered specifics on that because, frankly, I didn't record concrete metrics. I can only offer what my observations were and realize that without hard data those observations could be considered subjective.

A few things, though:

During past visits, I never remembered WDW having a CM with a long pole with an "FP LINE" sign at the top standing at the end of a queue so that everybody knows where the end of the FP line was. But during our most recent visit, they were out in multiples. The FP line at Soarin was snaked around the building, the FP line at BTMR was snaked around back to the bridge, etc...etc.....and a CM was stationed at the end of a growing FP line so people could recognize where the end was. Like I said, maybe I never noticed this in the past, I'm pretty sure I'd never seen this before, and apparently there is sufficient need for WDW to manufacture these pole signs and assign a CM as the human end-of-FP-line marker.

I also never remember being handed a red wait timer card when in the FP line before, but that happened numerous times on our most recent visit. So either I never noticed this before either, or Disney now feels the need to monitor the wait time in the FP lines.

There were many times we "stood still" in the FP lines rather than the briskly moving FP lines of the past that we remember. I can't say why the line was standing still on every occasion because often the cause of the delay was outside our range of vision, but when we could see what it was, it was because of confusion/authentication of the FP+ validity. There is no doubt in my mind that it takes much, much longer to identify, discuss, and resolve a group of four or five individual FP+ issues than it does to do the same with four or five paper FP's.

Another observation - on several attractions, the posted Standby time was, say, 20 minutes. We would enter the FP+ line but actually get into/on the attraction at the same time as someone who entered the Standby line the same time we did. I have no hard data to support how many times that happened, but it did seem to happen more frequently at MK. And it wasn't a case of an exaggerated standby line time, which is why we noticed these events because the FP wait time was also longer than normal.

 

[MickeyOCD]

Glitchy system still. Went to concierge this AM to get kids put back on my MDE, got their FP's copied from mine. My husband nor I could use the MB to enter the park or charge using it. The kids worked fine to enter the park. Later, found out that one of the FP's we had copied from ours, the system changed the time on it. Instead of a return time from 4-5 the kids' return time was put at 7-8. I tried to change it myself to match ours & there was no availability. So I went to a kiosk to get them to change it, and they didn't want to mess with it. It was OK since what I thought was a ghost FP for Soarin' was a real FP (the glitch actually cancelled each other out in this case). Still having a hard time accessing the app in the parks. Even the FP+ workers are having issues with connectivity. Still not a fan, at least in this phase. They should've increased server capacity before this roll out/"test"

 

[ilovemk76]

We got often and have been during both busy and non-busy times. We did FP+ and MB twice, with once of the trips during Thanksgiving 2013. We have been over Thanksgiving in 2009 and 2011.

We had the same experience during all three Thanksgiving visits.

In regards to FP line experience: I hadn't offered specifics on that because, frankly, I didn't record concrete metrics. I can only offer what my observations were and realize that without hard data those observations could be considered subjective.

A few things, though:

During past visits, I never remembered WDW having a CM with a long pole with an "FP LINE" sign at the top standing at the end of a queue so that everybody knows where the end of the FP line was. But during our most recent visit, they were out in multiples. The FP line at Soarin was snaked around the building, the FP line at BTMR was snaked around back to the bridge, etc...etc.....and a CM was stationed at the end of a growing FP line so people could recognize where the end was. Like I said, maybe I never noticed this in the past, I'm pretty sure I'd never seen this before, and apparently there is sufficient need for WDW to manufacture these pole signs and assign a CM as the human end-of-FP-line marker.

We never saw this before or during our MB trips. When was this trip?

I also never remember being handed a red wait timer card when in the FP line before, but that happened numerous times on our most recent visit. So either I never noticed this before either, or Disney now feels the need to monitor the wait time in the FP lines.

We get handed red wait cards all the time in the FP lines. It was a rare trip to not be given one of them in the FP line.

There were many times we "stood still" in the FP lines rather than the briskly moving FP lines of the past that we remember. I can't say why the line was standing still on every occasion because often the cause of the delay was outside our range of vision, but when we could see what it was, it was because of confusion/authentication of the FP+ validity. There is no doubt in my mind that it takes much, much longer to identify, discuss, and resolve a group of four or five individual FP+ issues than it does to do the same with four or five paper FP's.

We have had many a FP line delayed by people trying to get in early, trying to us the FP line without a FP+ or FP- and mostly from a group that was early basically blocking the entrance until their time opened up. This was on every trip we have taken, even the 4/5 crowd days. Nothing new here. Anytime there is a special line, people will try to get around the rules.

Another observation - on several attractions, the posted Standby time was, say, 20 minutes. We would enter the FP+ line but actually get into/on the attraction at the same time as someone who entered the Standby line the same time we did. I have no hard data to support how many times that happened, but it did seem to happen more frequently at MK. And it wasn't a case of an exaggerated standby line time, which is why we noticed these events because the FP wait time was also longer than normal.

You have no way of knowing that the person who entered at the same time as you got on at the same time. We have enter many times like this and the number from the FP line who entered at the merge point far exceeded those who entered from SB.

 

[Laketravis]

You have no way of knowing that the person who entered at the same time as you got on at the same time. We have enter many times like this and the number from the FP line who entered at the merge point far exceeded those who entered from SB.

Really? Not even when it's my wife?

Strange that you didn't notice the CM holding up the "FP LINE" sign at various attractions. This was both Thanksgiving week and the week after.

I never remember seeing a red wait card used to measure FP times before, only Standby. But if you have gotten them in years past then I guess that's nothing new.

 

[delilah]

Disney tickets already cost more than Universal! And now you're gonna make us pay for add'l FP's? Universal may be getting my vacation dollars from now on![/QUOTE]
In what alternative universe do you live in where Universal tickets cost less than Disney? According to their website, a 1 day ticket is $128. A 2 day ticket is $146; right now, they have a promotion for a free 3rd day when you buy the 2 day ticket, but, who would spend 3 days at Universal? We usually go when it first opens, and have seen all we want to see by about lunch time. I see that a 1 day pass at Universal is a whopping $3 less than a 1 day pass at Disney if you go to Magic Kingdom. But, if you go to Epcot, AK, or HS, a 1 day ticket is $90, which is $2 less than Universal. The biggest bamboozle Universal has under construction is that in order to ride the new "Diagon Alley" attraction, you will have no choice but to have the 2 park pass. Generally, if you plan your time at Disney, you may not need a park hopper to have a good time.

 

[ilovemk76]

Really? Not even when it's my wife?

Strange that you didn't notice the CM holding up the "FP LINE" sign at various attractions. This was both Thanksgiving week and the week after.

I never remember seeing a red wait card used to measure FP times before, only Standby. But if you have gotten them in years past then I guess that's nothing new.

You entered the FP line and your wife entered the SB line?

Nope, never saw the "FP LINE sign". There were some lines that were outside the FP queue, but they were not very far out and managed by the CM. The lines did move fairly quickly.

We were there for 10 days, including most of the week after.

 

[Laketravis]

You entered the FP line and your wife entered the SB line?

That's exactly right. We didn't both have the same FP reservations.

Nope, never saw the "FP LINE sign"

OP is there now, maybe they can confirm for you.

MickeyOCD: Are you seeing any CM's with pole signs that say "FP LINE" at the end of these long lines you are experiencing?

Better yet, could you maybe take a picture of some of these long FP lines?

 

[MickeyOCD]

I haven't seen too many long FP lines. We're at EPCOT today. Soarin', of course had a long FP line (longer than I've ever seen it at Peak times) but we only waited 15 min till the merge in the FP line - this is reasonable. Mission Space was fast, I'll check out Test Track & report back. I'll look for these "end of FP line signs". I got a special "anytime/any attraction" FP to use today only (for my troubles with the system" and we used it on SpaceShip Earth (some would consider it a waste, but the kids wanted to ride it, & StandBy was 25 min) since we're leaving EPCOT BY 6 to go to Downtown Disney, it got us thru with no wait.

 

[ilovemk76]

That's exactly right. We didn't both have the same FP reservations.



OP is there now, maybe they can confirm for you.

MickeyOCD: Are you seeing any CM's with pole signs that say "FP LINE" at the end of these long lines you are experiencing?

Better yet, could you maybe take a picture of some of these long FP lines?

You did not want to ride together? Why not both use the SB line?

 

[Vinnya1726]

Could not have said it any better. I think if they are going to tier anything, we should get Fast Passes Tiered to what resort you are staying at/DVC/AP...that would make some people happier....or not.

 

[bcrook]

In what alternative universe do you live in where Universal tickets cost less than Disney? According to their website, a 1 day ticket is $128. A 2 day ticket is $146; right now, they have a promotion for a free 3rd day when you buy the 2 day ticket, but, who would spend 3 days at Universal? We usually go when it first opens, and have seen all we want to see by about lunch time. I see that a 1 day pass at Universal is a whopping $3 less than a 1 day pass at Disney if you go to Magic Kingdom. But, if you go to Epcot, AK, or HS, a 1 day ticket is $90, which is $2 less than Universal. The biggest bamboozle Universal has under construction is that in order to ride the new "Diagon Alley" attraction, you will have no choice but to have the 2 park pass. Generally, if you plan your time at Disney, you may not need a park hopper to have a good time.

I see a four day hopper ticket for $167.00 at universal. A four day hopper at wdw $357.00.

That is substantial.

Or for $292.00 14 days unlimited entry to SeaWorld and universal parks. That is pretty good too.

 

[2littlestitches]

Hi guys..

I consider myself to be pretty much a Disney expert, but am needing a little help. I am an annual pass holder, heading to WDW during the busy week of Spring Break, and staying at the Dolphin hotel with a room only reservation. We, of course, have all of our dining booked already, but have heard nothing at all about the availability of FP+ or Magic Bands for our stay. Yet, I keep hearing on these boards that resorts will be using this as of January 2014, including the Swan and Dolphin hotels. I'm concerned, because I know it will be crowded when we are going, and I was assuming I'd still be able to use the old FP ticketed system for Spring Break in March. Does anyone know if this is the case? I'm going to feel pretty upset if I'm left with no FP+ ressies and also no option for old FP tickets for this trip.

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!

 

[My3Princez]

Hi guys..

I consider myself to be pretty much a Disney expert, but am needing a little help. I am an annual pass holder, heading to WDW during the busy week of Spring Break, and staying at the Dolphin hotel with a room only reservation. We, of course, have all of our dining booked already, but have heard nothing at all about the availability of FP+ or Magic Bands for our stay. Yet, I keep hearing on these boards that resorts will be using this as of January 2014, including the Swan and Dolphin hotels. I'm concerned, because I know it will be crowded when we are going, and I was assuming I'd still be able to use the old FP ticketed system for Spring Break in March. Does anyone know if this is the case? I'm going to feel pretty upset if I'm left with no FP+ ressies and also no option for old FP tickets for this trip.

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see Dolphin on the list of resorts getting rid of KTTW and going all MB. It's possible that you will have the same FP+ access as current Dolphin guests have.

 

[Laketravis]

You did not want to ride together? Why not both use the SB line?

Sorry to confuse you - don't know what to tell you. Circumstances were what circumstances were. I could go into definitive details about our relationship and how we aren't glued at the hip but that would be totally off-topic

 

[disney1990]

This is a pretty important observation here and an example of why changes were made. People were making dining reservations at multiple restaurants just to keep their options open and then not showing up. People screamed about having to reserve with a credit card but all of a sudden it is possible to get reservations again. The same thing was happening with fast passes. Some people were pulling dozens of fast passes in a day. How may threads have we read where people talk about how they had to throw away fast passes because they couldn't use them and couldn't get anyone to take them? We have no way of knowing what percentage of fast passes pulled were never used. Those fast passes tossed in the trash represent people that didn't get to ride that day.

I'm not going to sit here and try to say that Disney is just looking out for our own good but clearly there was an escalating level of abuse of the system and as more people learned how to game the system they had to make a decision at some point to rein it in. A lot (not all) of the people I see complaining most about the change go on to follow with anecdotes about how they used to be able to pull a dozen or more during a day. They weren't breaking any rules but it wasn't working the way Disney designed it. While it was great for the minority that had learned how to play the game it was detrimental to the majority of the casual customers. If one customer rides Space Mountain six times in one day with a fast pass that is five other customers that were not able to get a fast pass for that ride and possibly didn't get to ride it at all during peak season. (If the math on that example isn't possible please don't get stuck on attacking that. It doesn't change the point.) I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more than three a day but the day of a dozen is gone.

Still wasted FPs. The system makes you choose 3 FP times even if you only want one. At least with the original FPs, you could give the extras away, which we often did.

 

[bcrook]

This is a pretty important observation here and an example of why changes were made. People were making dining reservations at multiple restaurants just to keep their options open and then not showing up. People screamed about having to reserve with a credit card but all of a sudden it is possible to get reservations again. The same thing was happening with fast passes. Some people were pulling dozens of fast passes in a day. How may threads have we read where people talk about how they had to throw away fast passes because they couldn't use them and couldn't get anyone to take them? We have no way of knowing what percentage of fast passes pulled were never used. Those fast passes tossed in the trash represent people that didn't get to ride that day.

I'm not going to sit here and try to say that Disney is just looking out for our own good but clearly there was an escalating level of abuse of the system and as more people learned how to game the system they had to make a decision at some point to rein it in. A lot (not all) of the people I see complaining most about the change go on to follow with anecdotes about how they used to be able to pull a dozen or more during a day. They weren't breaking any rules but it wasn't working the way Disney designed it. While it was great for the minority that had learned how to play the game it was detrimental to the majority of the casual customers. If one customer rides Space Mountain six times in one day with a fast pass that is five other customers that were not able to get a fast pass for that ride and possibly didn't get to ride it at all during peak season. (If the math on that example isn't possible please don't get stuck on attacking that. It doesn't change the point.) I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more than three a day but the day of a dozen is gone.

Abuse has never been given as a reason for ride changes. It is way more complicated than that. I understand how you would draw that conclusion, but the dots don't really connect.

As for the ADR credit guarantee, i am not convinced that it is designed to cut back on abuse either. I understand that it is a benefit of the new system, but probably not the motivating factor.

1. Nothing stops me from booking as many reservations as I want still even with the CC guarantee. I just need to cancel 24 hours in advance. No big deal if that is the game I want to play.

2. The need for a CC guarantee during non-free dining times is less. Most restaurants have availability everyday. When people say that all reservations were gone they were referring to the popular character meals or places like 'Ohana.

3. Requiring a CC reservation for Nine Dragons or Olivia's for 2:30 pm, or Kouzinas for a 10:30 breakfast or the brown derby for any time is really quite silly.

The motivation behind these moves has to be about locking people into their choices and cutting back on people changing their minds and eating somewhere off site or cheaper.

If Disney was really concerned about overbooking, the most obvious solution would be having people pre pay for the most popular experiences. Otherwise, I can still bail on chef mickeys the night before my breakfast and choose to go to my 'Ohana Stitch breakfast instead.

I wonder how much free money Disney is getting from people who are at the pool or enjoying Epcot at noon and then decide they just don't want to head over to the whispering canyon cafe for dinner. A family of four would have to pay a $40.00 cancellation fee to get out of a mediocre dinner experience.

 

[Laketravis]

The motivation behind these moves have to be about locking people into their choices and cutting back on people changing their minds

Exactly.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Abuse has never been given as a reason for ride changes. It is way more complicated than that. I understand how you would draw that conclusion, but the dots don't really connect.

As for the ADR credit guarantee, i am not convinced that it is designed to cut back on abuse either. I understand that it is a benefit of the new system, but probably not the motivating factor.

1. Nothing stops me from booking as many reservations as I want still even with the CC guarantee. I just need to cancel 24 hours in advance. No big deal if that is the game I want to play.

2. The need for a CC guarantee during non-free dining times is less. Most restaurants have availability everyday. When people say that all reservations were gone they were referring to the popular character meals or places like 'Ohana.

3. Requiring a CC reservation for Nine Dragons or Olivia's for 2:30 pm, or Kouzinas for a 10:30 breakfast or the brown derby for any time is really quite silly.

The motivation behind these moves has to be about locking people into their choices and cutting back on people changing their minds and eating somewhere off site or cheaper.

If Disney was really concerned about overbooking, the most obvious solution would be having people pre pay for the most popular experiences. Otherwise, I can still bail on chef mickeys the night before my breakfast and choose to go to my 'Ohana Stitch breakfast instead.

I wonder how much free money Disney is getting from people who are at the pool or enjoying Epcot at noon and then decide they just don't want to head over to the whispering canyon cafe for dinner. A family of four would have to pay a $40.00 cancellation fee to get out of a mediocre dinner experience.

Excellent..,
And I concur...this is mostly about predictability for staffing. That is a way for them to shave margins.

On the side...how has the cc guarantee been now that its been a couple of months? We were there in November but weren't subject to it because we had booked things in September...
Have the tables been more open than the usual?
I'm curious...
And that would be the true measure of whether "abuse" was an issue...

 

[Laketravis]

Excellent..,
And I concur...this is mostly about predictability for staffing. That is a way for them to shave margins.

What a HUGE advantage to know weeks in advance what parks a majority of the guests are headed to, huh?