Here now, and here is the problem

[Planogirl]

Right from the mouse's mouth:

“We have known for a really long time that getting our visitors to Walt Disney World to make decisions about where they spend their time before they leave home is a powerful driver of visits per guest. When they get into the Orlando market and their time isn’t yet planned, they can be subject to everything you see down there, which is a lot of in-city marketing for all the many products that people have put there to basically bleed off the feed that we fundamentally motivate. So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet. So that’s one thing for you guys to think about.
And the second thing is, what happens to purchases when they become much more convenient and you don’t spend time queuing up for a transaction, queuing up to get in the park and you actually have more time to enjoy the entertainment and subsequently spend more money doing things other than standing in line which, of course, you can’t spend any money while you’re doing that”.​ - Disney CFO Jay Rasulo, on the 2013 2nd Quarter Earnings Call
​

Stolen from http://micechat.com/47066-leveraging-next-gen/

Personally I think he's off base, I'm a planner, OCD even, but MM+ isn't going to keep me from going to US. I will just plan a day or 2 for it. In fact, if I know ahead of time that FP for all the headliners are gone 30 days in advance, I am more likely to go offsite and do something else.

I keep on saying this too. I've already pictured us going offsite to do other things and then using the 3 FP+ in the evening at one of the Disney parks. I see no sense in waiting in lines all day when we could enjoy so much of what Florida has to offer.

 

[OtherScott]

Oh sorry-I used find other posts-they start Nov 7 2013-I don't see a history search but would like to find that, where is that?

Click my username and then there's a link to posts and comments. I am interested in the tracking aspects of this because I do logisitics. Maybe I'm guilty of having only one tool on my belt.

 

[Robo]

If most first timers/once in a life timers wouldn't know the difference between FP and FP+, there is no reason to change it to accommodate them. However if the changes threaten their repeat guests, who they clearly need, otherwise would not offer considerable discounts to .... these changes may have a considerable negative impact on their bottom line.

Changing the wipers on a car with a busted-out windshield.

Fixing a part that may or may not be broken in order to "just be doing something" RELATED to the problem.

 

[JanaDee]

The issue of whether the standby lines will be longer than they are now remains to be seen after this whole thing plays out. First they have to work through the issues of double dipping, which is in process now, and then deal with how to make FP+ available to offsite guests. Then they can eliminate FP- completely. When that is done, we may see a way of handling same day rides that is different than the traditional, physical standing in line for an hour or longer.

If the standby lines wouldn't be longer with this system, they wouldn't have invested all the money into interactive queues. That was everyone's first clue.

 

[AmyB2006]

What is the main intent, in your opinion? The MBs cost Disney more and aside from tracking, perform exact same function as a mag-strip card. RFID in mag-strip cards was used enter gates only. RFID was not used to get FPs (mag-strip was physically read by kiosk).

Disney is taking a familiar medium (pseudo-credit card) and changing to a wearable item.

Imagine the data collected from people's movements. The possibilities are near endless.

I've stated what I think their main intent is several times. With FP+ ONLY, I think their main intent is to spread out the FPs to a wider range of people. But I keep seeing others disagree with this, yet offer no alternative as to what their opinion is of Disney's main intent. So that is why I'm asking. I really would like to know what others think Disney is trying to do with FP+ if it isn't to spread out the FPs.

As far as MBs... that definitely could be to track the guest, to make it more of an interactive experience (after reading that Avatar article), to track spending and such.

 

[AmyB2006]

Someone else posted this a while ago. With an MB on your wrist, you go into a park store. The MB can track whether you purchase anything. Five minutes after you leave, a 10% off coupon pops up for that store. Voila, they just used the tracking info and made a sale. Or they notice you stop at Coral Reef to check on available tables, wait is an hour. You walk away and 45 minutes later a message pops up that a table is available. Voila, they tracked your movements and made money. I can see MB's being a revenue generator for Disney and have no problems with that. Heck, I would totally take advantage. It's the crowd control portion (FP+) that I'm not so fond of.

I'm agreeing more and more with this.

 

[AmyB2006]

Yes, I know. I've posted that exact point myself.

My point to the PP was that by taking a familiar item (RFID enabled mag-strip card) and changing it to an unfamilar item (wearable RFID enabled bracelet) suggests that the physical nature of the latter is of major significance (tracking).

I have said from Day 1 that this is about tracking and all of the benefits it gives Disney and you (pre-visit, day off, post-visit). 6:00pm and you haven't had dinner yet? "You've got mail!"

I don't get this though. Who checks their email in the park? MDE doesn't send you a notification, at least not yet. I guess they could change the app to do so.

 

[jade1]

Click my username and then there's a link to posts and comments. I am interested in the tracking aspects of this because I do logisitics. Maybe I'm guilty of having only one tool on my belt.

You must mean something else-it says your first post is Nov 7 2013.

It doesn't matter-but certainly you can see the confusion, I guess I could have just assumed you used to post about this topic 3 years ago under a name you forgot.

 

[AmyB2006]

Good, post, but I think you are missing a huge portion of the analysis.

Yes you point out the differences between first timers/once in a life timers, AP holders, yearly visitors, and well, locals. Yes, Disney makes more money off those first timers and once in a life timers, certainly more so than locals or frequent visitors.

There is just one thing: why offer discounts ?

See, but imo, the discounts aren't that great. Enough to maybe keep some coming back but not enough to make a huge difference to a lot of people.

I think if they really wanted to attract AP holders and DVC members and the like, they would offer bigger discounts to them.

 

[AmyB2006]

You must mean something else-it says your first post is Nov 7 2013.

Not trying to be a p.i.t.a. but does it really matter when his join date is? Just curious. Does that mean someone's opinion isn't as valid because he hasn't been here as long as others? Just because he said "since Day 1"... I mean maybe he's a new poster on the DIS but has been following this fiasco since its inception... I don't know. I just don't see how it's relevant I guess.

 

[wisblue]

If the standby lines wouldn't be longer with this system, they wouldn't have invested all the money into interactive queues. That was everyone's first clue.

I don't think that follows. The interactive parts of the lines that have them tend to be closer to the end of the lines, so lines that extend outside of the ride building wouldn't be affected by them. It may be that the lines would move more slowly, meaning that someone standing in standby would be in one place longer so that they could use those interactive things, but it wouldn't make the time spent in line any longer.

Maybe it is a clue that a higher percentage of ride capacity will eventually be allocated to FP+ than was allocated to FP-.

 

[wisblue]

I don't get this though. Who checks their email in the park? MDE doesn't send you a notification, at least not yet. I guess they could change the app to do so.

I know that a lot of people are tied to their phones, but notices like that will be lost on me.

I have heard that people have gotten notices when one of the rides for which they have a FP+ reservation has gone down.

 

[AmyB2006]

I know that a lot of people are tied to their phones, but notices like that will be lost on me.

I have heard that people have gotten notices when one of the rides for which they have a FP+ reservation has gone down.

Yeah I would totally miss that if it came through email. Now if they set MDE up with notifications, I would get it. Maybe. LOL That's if I heard/felt the phone.

 

[clsteve]

Why do you assume Disney will aggressively market FP+? If the goal is capacity, crowd management, throughput, or whatever you want to call it, why hasn't Disney marketed FP and other anchoring factors up until now?

Disney's success comes from understanding the way their visitors want to interact with them. Most don't want to engage in advance planning and I see no reason why most suddenly will.

My belief is that the FP wave will swell initially, then naturally ebb to reflect the visitors' desires. What this will look like on the ground is FP+ selections closer to day of visit for most, same day for a lot, and opportunities for exploitation for the truly committed.

It's all about the MBs.

1. Not an assumption - they've stated they are

2.They aren't going to aggressively market it until they have the full compliment of Disney guest types on the system, in some way. Watch what happens once off-site is on-board

3. If visitors don't utilize FP+, Disney will have failed in their stated goal of getting as many guest as possible to commit to a Disney Vacation as early as possible. Many more suddenly will because the awareness is going to much higher than with FP- and they will have a host of TA's and CM's assisting them to do so.

4. All MB's are are a collection tool to aid other, stated, corporate objectives

 

[ArwenMarie]

Good, post, but I think you are missing a huge portion of the analysis.

Yes you point out the differences between first timers/once in a life timers, AP holders, yearly visitors, and well, locals. Yes, Disney makes more money off those first timers and once in a life timers, certainly more so than locals or frequent visitors.

There is just one thing: why offer discounts ?

While I totally get your point, the offering of discounts to me, indicates that they still NEED us frequent goers. If they didn't they would just put out general public offers and try to base their attendance (and profits) off those first timers and once in a life timers. They don't have to offer AP rates, or PINs to returning guests, or bouncebacks, etc. Except, clearly they do. We make up a considerable portion (I wish we had numbers on this) of their revenue.

If most first timers/once in a life timers wouldn't know the difference between FP and FP+, there is no reason to change it to accommodate them. However if the changes threaten their repeat guests, who they clearly need, otherwise would not offer considerable discounts to .... these changes may have a considerable negative impact on their bottom line.

Re: Discounts

Maybe they are going to use FP, a previously "free" service included with all park admission, to try to reduce discounts which help fill up their hotel rooms. Discounts that cost money, either through free food via free dining, or through reduced room rates. Give people more FPs instead. Use FP to entice people to come and stay onsite, to stay at higher levels of resorts, just like how they use current discounts.

I think this is one of the goals, not the main goal, but one.

 

[jade1]

You must mean something else-it says your first post is Nov 7 2013.

It doesn't matter-but certainly you can see the confusion, I guess I could have just assumed you used to post about this topic 3 years ago under a name you forgot.

Not trying to be a p.i.t.a. but does it really matter when his join date is? Just curious.

Hence the bold.

But being told to check my history and start date sounded like something available to all of us-not looking accurate.

I also believe forgetting what name they used to post as-at least kinda.

Does that mean someone's opinion isn't as valid because he hasn't been here as long as others? Just because he said "since Day 1"... I mean maybe he's a new poster on the DIS but has been following this fiasco since its inception... I don't know. I just don't see how it's relevant I guess.

Heck no....cough...LuvFFPlus....cough...

 

[Colleen27]

A very good friend of mine has 2 days of unused park hoppers & wanted to go sometime this fall, using both days & adding either MNSSHP or MVMCP. Knowing we've been on no less than 6-8 trips to WDW in the last year she asked for my help in planning. I was very hesitant & told her so - with the FP+ rules changing weekly & the uncertainty of how it would be during their actual trip dates, I was afraid to give what would end up being bad advice.

So I explained the way things were changing, encouraged her to sit down & really prioritize what they wanted to accomplish, told her to read up on the changes & that we could talk about it again after she had formed her own opinions.

The next time we spoke about it she looked like this and said forget it - it was all too much work & pre-planning for them. She found it terribly intimidating & stressful to try & guess what their low-level ADHD DD6 would be most interested in on some random day in the future. They had decided to skip Disney completely, forgoing the tickets they already had and doing Seaworld and Legoland instead. So Disney lost their hotel, dining, party tickets & souvenier budget.

As someone who is planning not one but two trips with old leftover tickets, I have to say she probably made a good choice at this point. It can be a hassle to link those old tickets in MDE - I had no issues with one and nothing but headaches with the other, even though they're the same ticket type purchased as part of the same package. And since there's no way to upgrade the tickets before arrival, I'm limited to planning just 2 days of FP+ anyway and hoping there will be something worth getting available a day or two in advance once we are on site and can upgrade. Plus they're still advising not to link hard-ticket party tickets to MDE because the gates aren't "smart" enough to determine which entitlement to subtract at the party entrance, so if you choose to link those for the FP+ advantage you do so at your own peril.

Good, post, but I think you are missing a huge portion of the analysis.

Yes you point out the differences between first timers/once in a life timers, AP holders, yearly visitors, and well, locals. Yes, Disney makes more money off those first timers and once in a life timers, certainly more so than locals or frequent visitors.

There is just one thing: why offer discounts ?

While I totally get your point, the offering of discounts to me, indicates that they still NEED us frequent goers. If they didn't they would just put out general public offers and try to base their attendance (and profits) off those first timers and once in a life timers. They don't have to offer AP rates, or PINs to returning guests, or bouncebacks, etc. Except, clearly they do. We make up a considerable portion (I wish we had numbers on this) of their revenue.

If most first timers/once in a life timers wouldn't know the difference between FP and FP+, there is no reason to change it to accommodate them. However if the changes threaten their repeat guests, who they clearly need, otherwise would not offer considerable discounts to .... these changes may have a considerable negative impact on their bottom line.

I'm not saying they don't need repeat guests at all. I'm just saying that they want to shift the balance to fewer repeat guests and more first timers/once in a lifetimers. Just as they've reduced AP benefits/discounts and raised prices, they'll reduce the in-park experience compared to what we're all used to, knowing that it will cost them some - but certainly not nearly all - AP, DVC, and local business.

I keep on saying this too. I've already pictured us going offsite to do other things and then using the 3 FP+ in the evening at one of the Disney parks. I see no sense in waiting in lines all day when we could enjoy so much of what Florida has to offer.

I'm seeing that too. January is becoming March, and instead of all Disney we're going to rent a car and hit some spring training games. Day games mean plenty of time to come back for a couple of rides and an evening show. So instead of 3 full park days, now I'm thinking one full day and two evenings.

I've stated what I think their main intent is several times. With FP+ ONLY, I think their main intent is to spread out the FPs to a wider range of people. But I keep seeing others disagree with this, yet offer no alternative as to what their opinion is of Disney's main intent. So that is why I'm asking. I really would like to know what others think Disney is trying to do with FP+ if it isn't to spread out the FPs.

To spread out ride demand, not only through the day but also through the park. Just as resort guests flock to EMH because they feel like it is Disney telling them which park is best that day, many will also flock to "recommended" FP+ attractions... even if those attractions are things that any experienced Disney goer can tell you don't need FP. So rather than building more capacity for Soarin', as an example, to meet guest demand for that attraction while continuing to staff and run half-empty rides at Living With the Land, El Rio del Tiempo, Journey into Imagination, etc. they aim to shift the crowds around to more fully utilize existing staffing and operational capacity. They aren't looking at it as how to satisfy 30K people coming through the gates all trying to get one of the 15K slots for one premier ride; they're looking at it as how to most efficiently spread those 30K people across the 100K (number pulled entirely out of thin air because I'm not searching out ride capacity for Figment, SSE, Maelstrom, etc) ride slots they have to offer park-wide. Limiting FP+ access to the headliners isn't for purposes of "fairness"; it is for purposes of crowd control, because someone who can ride Soarin' and Test Track repeatedly is going to be difficult to divert to fill empty seats on Nemo or Figment.

 

[OtherScott]

You must mean something else-it says your first post is Nov 7 2013.

It doesn't matter-but certainly you can see the confusion, I guess I could have just assumed you used to post about this topic 3 years ago under a name you forgot.

I was on here 3 years ago lurking about for some update info. I dont recall FP+ being a big deal then so no, I wouldnt have posted about it then.

I returned here last month seeking info for a trip next summer because my condo owner sold his unit and I was looking for another. I saw the uproar about FP+ and thought I'd offer my 2 cents.

Make sense?

 

[jade1]

I was on here 3 years ago lurking about for some update info. I dont recall FP+ being a big deal then so no, I wouldnt have posted about it then.

I returned here last month seeking info for a trip next summer because my condo owner sold his unit and I was looking for another. I saw the uproar about FP+ and thought I'd offer my 2 cents.

Make sense?

It does, just threw me off with "I've been saying since day 1".

 

[OtherScott]

I don't get this though. Who checks their email in the park? MDE doesn't send you a notification, at least not yet. I guess they could change the app to do so.

I used "you've got mail" because I'm old...it will be text vibrating in your kids' pockets...