Help with a Day Care issue

[lovetoscrap]

Since this is a full daycare I would guess that June 17 or 20th they probably start "School Age" care. Our schools are some of the latest in the country (that I have heard of) and we end that week (no idea what it is where OP is). So our daycares will start having school age kids full time the day after school ends. More than likely that includes the children in their K program, and they will just have the current K teachers in charge of the school age program-- so the class is no longer a K class but full day daycare and that is usually more relaxed and less structured, especially in the summer. It is definitely not Kindergarten at that point. I can't imagine having a daycare based K program continue past the time that the schools do.

There is no way that I would pay anymore than I was responsible for in the contract that I signed-- and the OP has said that their contract is clearly for a 30 day notice with no stipulations for the K program. OP, probably not worth paying a lawyer, but I certainly wouldn't tell them that when I let them know I would have my lawyer review the contract. Better yet let them know you want to talk to THEIR lawyer about it!

 

[wnissen]

OP, may I suggest that you don't mention lawyers or suits until they say no when presented with a request in writing? The owner knows perfectly well that you always have that option, so there's no need to bring it up. If the contract terms are clear (and if they're unclear, generally the courts interpret them in favor of the person who didn't write the contract, i.e., you) and you cite them, especially if you can prove 30 days notice, you are in the right. Most owners are savvy enough to realize when you have them over a barrel, and hopefully they will eat their mistake, rewrite the contract for next year, and move on.

Small Claims Court is an option, but it's going to take hours and hours. You need to get the paperwork (usually from your county), write up your claim, pay for "service" (getting the notice of your claim to the defendant), take time off to argue in court, and then you have to worry about collecting. Some people will pay up when presented with a court order, otherwise you will have to explore getting the sheriff to collect cash from the site, if there is any (probably not), or else get a court order to take money out of their checking account, which involves finding out which bank has their money. It can be quite a process. $425 is, for me, on the boundary of what's worth going after, because there is always a chance you will lose, too.

If you decide to go the small claims court route, you have two options. One, you can pay them in full and go to court for the amount you believe you are owed. The key is to establish that you have a valid contract (the three elements are offer, acceptance, and exchange of consideration. If you have a contract signed by both parties, and a canceled check, that should cover it) and the fact that they are breaching the contract by refusing to do what it says. The judge, as I understand it, is not looking for legal jargon, but rather a short citation of the relevant parts of the contract, followed by proof (highly preferred to be in writing) that the valid contract is not being followed in a signficiant way. Or, you can switch to another day care provider for the period you need, and then sue for the amount that the care cost. That is riskier, because it's likely to be more money, and you will have to convince the judge that you legitimately were forced to incur that expense by their breach of the contract.
If you go either route, definitely send a check with the amount you believe you owe, marked Payment in full for (date range) by Registered Mail, return receipt requested. If they cash the check, you are golden, because now they don't have the extra money and are bound to provide the service specified. See http://dearrichblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/cashing-check-that-says-payment-in-full.html for the details. Sometimes just the fact that you have gone to the trouble of sending something registered mail is enough to jog the person into realizing you are serious. And, I should add, I am not a lawyer, and I can't give legal advice, so if you want that you'll have to go somewhere other than the DIS.

Good luck, I hope you get them to adhere to the contract, however you go about it.

 

[daisyduck123]

Oh my - just pull her out on May 31st & make that her last day. It's just Kindergarten...missing the last two weeks will not affect her at all.

If it's too late for that, I would just suck it up & pay it.

 

[ccgirl]

The contract says when Kindergarten starts, but does not say when it ends.
I did not agree to pay for "Kindergarten". I did not agree to pay for a full 10 months from Sept to June. I agreed to enroll my child in their program, and pay them by the 1st of the month. I agreed to give them 30 days written notice if I remove my child.

There was a child that was enrolled at the beginning of the year and left after 2 months. I doubt they paid all the way through the end of June.

There is their "argument" I bet. If you agreed to pay by the 1st of the month, that means you need to pay on June 1st. I am thinking you pay for an entire month? So, on June 1st the entire month would be due? Is it 30 days notice before the payment date (which would be the first of the month)?

 

[jnadelman]

We can't pull her out on the 31st of May. We work.
Public schools (and our DS) end on the 17th, which the day after graduation and the day we want her last day to be.

Seems like there is an even 50/50 split on whether or not to fight this. Half think we either owe it or should just pay and be done, while the other half think we should not have to since the contract does not stipulate anything other than the 30 days notice.

We will try and talk to the owner again, and this time we will bring the contract to him. I will ask him to point out to me where in the contract it has that I have to pay the full month. (It has everything else. It lists the hours, the price, all of the holidays non-refunable deposit, the starting date of Kindergarten and of course the 30 day notice)

 

[undertheradar]

They have no deposit from us. We don't get any discount or credit for vacation. You pay the full month. They even close between Christmas and New Year's and we pay the full month of December.
But this is different to me. This is the end of school. And some people are staying through the summer, so not everyone is leaving then. I see it as I have to give 30 days notice, I did. I shouldn't have to pay more than that.

If you pay the full month, where is the debate about what is owed? I understand that you don't want to pay the full month, but that isn't the same as paying by the month. I would pay the month and send her for the other days.

 

[cm8]

OP, I hope that you get this issue resolved and soon. What ever he decides make sure you get it in writing, that way he can't change what he stated when he is bound by it

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I'm wondering - does the contract list a monthly fee for kindergarten or a total yearly fee? Is it possible that the school has a total fee for 10 months of kindergarten that's broken down into 10 monthly payments? For example, as a public school employee, I get paid 10 times per year (I don't work in the summer). They take my scheduled working hours for the entire school year, multiply by my hourly rate and divide by 10. Some months I work more than I'm actually paid for. Other months I work less, like December and June when we have a long break or only work half the month. But it works out after 10 paychecks that I'm paid for every hour I worked during the year.

Perhaps the school has the kindergarten tuition worked out this way? Did you pay less for months when you had a week or two off? If not, the full June payment might be due even though you aren't attending for the last two weeks. You might want to determine if kindergarten is actually paid for by the day or for the year but broken down into 10 monthly payments. The reason they prorated the days in August may have been because they were not part of the kindergarten program and, therefore, not covered under the 10 monthly kindergarten payments. Just another possible way to look at the situation. I hope you get it worked out.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

I'm wondering - does the contract list a monthly fee for kindergarten or a total yearly fee? Is it possible that the school has a total fee for 10 months of kindergarten that's broken down into 10 monthly payments? For example, as a public school employee, I get paid 10 times per year (I don't work in the summer). They take my scheduled working hours for the entire school year, multiply by my hourly rate and divide by 10. Some months I work more than I'm actually paid for. Other months I work less, like December and June when we have a long break or only work half the month. But it works out after 10 paychecks that I'm paid for every hour I worked during the year.

Perhaps the school has the kindergarten tuition worked out this way? Did you pay less for months when you had a week or two off? If not, the full June payment might be due even though you aren't attending for the last two weeks. You might want to determine if kindergarten is actually paid for by the day or for the year but broken down into 10 monthly payments. The reason they prorated the days in August may have been because they were not part of the kindergarten program and, therefore, not covered under the 10 monthly kindergarten payments. Just another possible way to look at the situation. I hope you get it worked out.

I think this is what is happening. We are currently researching 4 year old kindergarten programs for my son. For schools that have a set curriculum in a 4k program then the tuition is a set amount and divided by 10 and you pay that amount each month. If it is more of a daycare setting and not actual Kindergarten curriculum then it is just a monthly fee. Hope that makes sense.

The 2 days in August fell under the "daycare" rates and not the "kindergarten" rates. I think the school is correct in that you owe the full amount because it is already pro-rated over 10 months BUT the contract you signed should show that.

 

[Hillbeans]

I think this is what is happening. We are currently researching 4 year old kindergarten programs for my son. For schools that have a set curriculum in a 4k program then the tuition is a set amount and divided by 10 and you pay that amount each month. If it is more of a daycare setting and not actual Kindergarten curriculum then it is just a monthly fee. Hope that makes sense.

.

I agree with this - your fee really is broken down into 10 payments for the whole year. My Pre-School last year was the same way, we paid full tuition for June yet the school year ended on/around June 10th.

I think it would have been different had you left half-way through the year, at the last month the funds are already accounted for. I would pay it.

 

[tlbwriter]

I agree with this - your fee really is broken down into 10 payments for the whole year. My Pre-School last year was the same way, we paid full tuition for June yet the school year ended on/around June 10th.

That may be the case, but if so, why didn't the owner say that, instead of saying "we don't prorate for kindergarten?" Why not say "that fee was the total cost of kindergarten divided into 10 payments" if that's what it really is?

 

[luvmy3]

That may be the case, but if so, why didn't the owner say that, instead of saying "we don't prorate for kindergarten?" Why not say "that fee was the total cost of kindergarten divided into 10 payments" if that's what it really is?

Maybe they just thought that explained it Who knows why?
At this point the best thing is for the OP to go back and ask for a detailed explanation, then decided from that point if its worth it to get a lawyer and fight it.

 

[jnadelman]

Contract says nothing about it being a yearly price, no annual total. Contract simply has a monthly price. Contract says nothing about not being able to leave early. We just need to give 30 days notice.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Contract says nothing about it being a yearly price, no annual total. Contract simply has a monthly price. Contract says nothing about not being able to leave early. We just need to give 30 days notice.

That sounds like it needs to be paid monthly. And as a PP said, it might be that 30 days notice needs to be 30 days before a payment is due. Like rent. If you give "30 days" notice on May 27 for an apartment, you'd pay on June 1 for the month of June, not through June 27, whether you plan to leave the 27th or not.

Just the fact that we're all hearing the same "facts" (by "facts" I mean what we're being told by one person's interpretation of the contract, without actually seeing it ourselves) and coming to very different conclusions, may mean that it isn't black and white. The OP can go to the owner, and the owner may point out statements in the contract that will still leave the OP seeing the meaning differently Then it will be a matter of having someone knowledgeable about the law review it. There ARE options for that, aren't there? I mean, in a similar situation, I'd talk to my son's HS law teacher, to start. Aren't there online legal sites, or something??

And if the OP or others decide Small Claims Court is the way to go, make sure you know what's involved. We looked at info for Small Claims Court when we were having trouble collecting my mom's security deposit, and found this info, which surprised me (this is RI):

Before you decide to use the Small Claims Court you should know that there are certain disadvantages:

1. 1. The Plaintiff (the person starting the suit) gives up the right to appeal. This means that if you lose, or you do not get all that you want, you cannot appeal. However, the defendant (the person you sue) can appeal from Small Claims Court. This means that if you, as the plaintiff wins, the defendant can appeal to Superior Court.
   2. You can sue for up to $2,500 in Small Claims Court. Plaintiffs who represent themselves frequently make mistakes and lose their cases, so if there is a significant amount of money involved you should consider getting an attorney and/or filing your case in the civil division of District Court.

I'm just saying that Small Claims Court isn't necessarily a simple matter. If we had gone to Small Claims Court and won, the other party could have appealed, and that's not something we'd want to deal with again. Thankfully, the very next day after we read this online, we got a check for the security deposit.