help settle an ongoing debate...ancestry related

[ncmickeyluvr]

Okay...dh and I have been going back and forth about this for years and I was wondering what other people's opinions are. Sorry if my explaination gets long!

DH is the 13th generation of his family in the United States. We have a lovely book that a distant family member researched that catalogs dh's family back to a young servant boy coming over in 1714. Not only that but he's actually the 13th generation in the state of NC....or what is now NC. The disagreement is that dh refers to himself as French and English. I disagree. He's American. IMO, if his ancesters have been here that long he's American and any French or English blood has long been diluted. Those ancesters have married so many times he could be more Eskimo than French

Now, it gets even more complicated because I refer to myself as Portuguese and Italian....and American ofcourse. That's because ALL 4 of my maternal ggp's were born in Portugal and all 4 of my paternal ggp's were born in Italy.

So when my children ask what they are I say....American, Portuguese, and Italian....and then dh pipes in with and French and English.

So, who's right me, dh, or are we both just wrong? Just wondering.

 

[Boo'sMom]

your husband is correct.

 

[RadioNate]

You've been arguing about this for years?

You are ALL American. You are of Portuguese and Italian heritage. Your DH is of French and English heritage. Your children are American with Portuguese, Italian, French and English heritage.

I think you are wrong to deny his European heritage just because his family immigrated before yours. Your children's ancestors DID come from France and England.

Why don't you all be European-American?

 

[ncmickeyluvr]

You've been arguing about this for years?

You are ALL American. You are of Portuguese and Italian heritage. Your DH is of French and English heritage. Your children are American with Portuguese, Italian, French and English heritage.

I think you are wrong to deny his European heritage just because his family immigrated before yours. Your children's ancestors DID come from France and England.

Why don't you all be European-American?

Oh goodness no....we haven't once argued about it. Just discussed, debated, like people do. Never argued. It's just a difference of opinion. I asked because I was wanting to see it better from another angle. So far looks like I'm outnumbered....darn. I really like being right...maybe next time.

 

[DizBelle]

Okay...dh and I have been going back and forth about this for years and I was wondering what other people's opinions are. Sorry if my explaination gets long!

DH is the 13th generation of his family in the United States. We have a lovely book that a distant family member researched that catalogs dh's family back to a young servant boy coming over in 1714. Not only that but he's actually the 13th generation in the state of NC....or what is now NC. The disagreement is that dh refers to himself as French and English. I disagree. He's American. IMO, if his ancesters have been here that long he's American and any French or English blood has long been diluted. Those ancesters have married so many times he could be more Eskimo than French

Now, it gets even more complicated because I refer to myself as Portuguese and Italian....and American ofcourse. That's because ALL 4 of my maternal ggp's were born in Portugal and all 4 of my paternal ggp's were born in Italy.

So when my children ask what they are I say....American, Portuguese, and Italian....and then dh pipes in with and French and English.

So, who's right me, dh, or are we both just wrong? Just wondering.

How I see it....

You are all simply "American". But if you're talking about ancestry, I think you need to refer to all countries of origin that you know about. It's what you "have in you." So, to your kids, they ar Portuguese, Italian, French, English, and probably some others that are yet to be discovered. "What's in you" is not diluted simply by time but by the mixing among many from many places.

With every generation, the number of people involved doubles. Someone can check my math but if I'm correct, 13 generations ago, there are 8192 people whose blood your DH shares. Unless your DH can identify all of those 8192 people as being French, English, or both French and English, he's going to have to admit that there may be more than French and English to him.

 

[Disney Ella]

I think your husband's heritage is just as important as yours and certainly plays a part in the genetic make-up of your children. I would consider all of you Americans with ancestors that came from France, England, Portugal and Italy.

 

[jrmasm]

I think you're both wrong. You're American. If you feel the need to qualify then you're American of fill in the blank descent.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Your heritage/culture is your heritage/culture, no matter WHEN you came over. My dh's family has been here a long time.

I am only a 3rd generation, like you.

The true americans in this equation are Native Americans if you are talking cultural heritage.

 

[FireDancer]

It is kind of a mix of the two. My mom's family is Sicilian and my dad's Polish (along with some other things mixed in there) but both were born here as was I. My citizenship is American and my heritage is American, Polish, and Sicilian because all of those cultures have formed a part of me. For example we eat Italian food on American holidays (like lasagna along with turkey for Thanksgiving). Our ancestry though is what ever we are historically.

At least that is how I look at it.

 

[sbell111]

You are wrong. Your husband is correct.

 

[ncmickeyluvr]

How I see it....

You are all simply "American". But if you're talking about ancestry, I think you need to refer to all countries of origin that you know about. It's what you "have in you." So, to your kids, they ar Portuguese, Italian, French, English, and probably some others that are yet to be discovered. "What's in you" is not diluted simply by time but by the mixing among many from many places.

With every generation, the number of people involved doubles. Someone can check my math but if I'm correct, 13 generations ago, there are 8192 people whose blood your DH shares. Unless your DH can identify all of those 8192 people as being French, English, or both French and English, he's going to have to admit that there may be more than French and English to him.[/QUOTE]


Actually, this is my point I just didn't articulate this as well. When we talk about this....and I promise you it's very jovial and we're both smiling when we do it....I lovingly refer to dh as "an American mutt".....which is a wonderful thing to be He also tends to change his ancestry to fit the situation...he swears he's German when we eat at Biergarten So that's why I pick on him about saying he's French and English...it's a guess on his part, at best. He's doesn't KNOW the boy who came over in 1714 was French or English...he's guessing. I, on the other hand, KNOW I'm of Portugese and Italian descent....but American first and foremost ofcourse.

Please know that this is a friendly debate at my house.....I by no means am trying to offend anyone.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Unless he has Native American heritage he is a European American just like you.

 

[wdwfan16]

You husband is correct.

 

[pixiewings71]

You're all American, that's it, just American. You might have French, English, Italian, etc ancestry but you're American.

 

[disykat]

I'm with you, OP.

I also have a lovely book that ties me distantly to someone who came from England several hundred years ago. I don't call myself English. I might say I have distant ancestors in England and lots of other places, but it is very watered down. Both DH and I have British last names, but the ties go way back. I guess I would claim "American" if I had to claim anything.

In your case, all of your ancestry is easily identified as Portugese or Italian, making these easy to claim. I agree with you that your children can claim those as well. They would be 1/4 Portugese, 1/4 Italian, and 1/2 of whatever your dh is - some of which is partially French and English.

Most certainly, if there were genetic issues people of Portugese or Italian people had to watch for, your doctors would be much more likely to be concerned about those opposed to genetic issues French and English people should watch for. The genetic ties are stronger -period.

I'm not sure why it's so important to your dh to claim his European heritage as equal to yours. IMO your ties are clearly much closer.

We recently had to laugh when we discovered I'm more Native American than my husband is. He has proudly claimed this as part of his heritage for years and even got some sort of scholarship thing in high school based on ethnicity. My grandmother was 1/4 Cherokee and I think that makes me 1/64th, but my family never really made much mention of it. When talking to dh's mom over Christmas I realized I'm more Native American than dh is.

 

[BCV513]

Your husband is right. His heritage is no less important than yours. You are just as Americanized as he is. Your kids as well.

 

[Crankyshank]

I have to side with your husband as well, but there is a caveat.

If your DH's family also married people of English and French ancestry while living here, I don't see how that makes his blood more diluted than yours based solely on the argument of time since immigration. The caveat: Now if they married outside of their ethnicity, I would say that those nationalities would also have to be included when discussing his ethnic heritage.

I'm currently taking a genealogy certification course and hope to become a board certified genealogist. When people hear me talk about it, I usually get asked my ethnic heritage. Normally I say I'm from late 19th century immigrants of mixed European ancestry. Or that my Dad is 1/4 French Canadian, 1/4 English with possible Dutch thrown in, 1/4 Swedish and 1/4 Irish and my Mother is 1/2 French Canadian (Acadian) and 1/2 Northern Italian via the Marche region.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I think your husband's heritage is just as important as yours and certainly plays a part in the genetic make-up of your children. I would consider all of you Americans with ancestors that came from France, England, Portugal and Italy.

 

[ncmickeyluvr]

I'm with you, OP.

I also have a lovely book that ties me distantly to someone who came from England several hundred years ago. I don't call myself English. I might say I have distant ancestors in England and lots of other places, but it is very watered down. Both DH and I have British last names, but the ties go way back. I guess I would claim "American" if I had to claim anything.

In your case, all of your ancestry is easily identified as Portugese or Italian, making these easy to claim. I agree with you that your children can claim those as well. They would be 1/4 Portugese, 1/4 Italian, and 1/2 of whatever your dh is - some of which is partially French and English.

Most certainly, if there were genetic issues people of Portugese or Italian people had to watch for, your doctors would be much more likely to be concerned about those opposed to genetic issues French and English people should watch for. The genetic ties are stronger -period.

I'm not sure why it's so important to your dh to claim his European heritage as equal to yours. IMO your ties are clearly much closer.

We recently had to laugh when we discovered I'm more Native American than my husband is. He has proudly claimed this as part of his heritage for years and even got some sort of scholarship thing in high school based on ethnicity. My grandmother was 1/4 Cherokee and I think that makes me 1/64th, but my family never really made much mention of it. When talking to dh's mom over Christmas I realized I'm more Native American than dh is.

Yes!!! That's exactly what I say.....1/4 Portugues, 1/4 Italian, and 1/2 good ole American Mutt!! I simply refuse to say English/French......he doesn't actually know that the boy on the boat in 1714 was English or French....even his Mom says that's ridiculous. I wouldn't make fun of him so much if he would just say "European".

and I am NOT minimalizing his heritage....I'm just saying that his heritage is sketchy.

 

[diznygirl]

For everyone saying "American" at what point is it nothing but American? My husband and I are both born here but our parents were not. Can we lay claim to a little bit of European blood honestly, or are we "just" American?

Just curious.