Help settle a "debate"

[debbieandroo]

No you won't! You will be pushing through because you trained for that race and will not go down without a fight this time!

Thanks, I sure hope so!

 

[DisneyRunnerGirl]

Have read this thread with great interest because several years ago I read an account posted on these boards by a woman who was swept at mile 2 of the Half.

Several things made me see in her post

1) She had not gone more than 3 miles in her training

2) She complained how far it was from the drop off area at EPCOT to the starting corrals. I didn't know whether to laugh or scream when she commented that the walk from the corrals was just too far and did her in before the race start. She thought Disney should have the start next to the drop off point.

3) She ended by saying that she KNEW she was not going to finish when she registered! This is the one that really set me off. That year, the half had closed in MAY! Here was someone who knew they weren't going to train, weren't going to finish and they took a spot from someone who was willing to make the commitment to train to do the entire race!

I completely understand that even with training some race days "it is what it is" and you can't finish, but why for the love of Mike would you enter something KNOWING you have no intention of finishing!!

I volunteer for a local race company and act as the "caboose" in their races. At the last half marathon I worked I had 15-20 people who were not on pace and I had to tell them that they had a choice of hitching a ride in the sag wagon to the finish or they could turn in their bibs and continue on the course, but they were no longer part of the race, but rather on a long walk around town. EVERY SINGLE ONE ASKED IF THEY WOULD GET THEIR MEDALS

They are FINISHERS medals people - not "I showed up" medals! My sister and I have discussed this endlessly and the thing that bothers us about people with these attitudes to quote a coach friend is that they "Don't Respect the Distance".

Okay, now I will get off my soapbox.

 

[mking624]

I suppose I'll chime in also!

I would be bummed to come home without a medal after having paid for the race and spent the money to travel to Disney...just to be empty handed. But if I received a medal when I didn't finish, I'd forever look at that medal as a reminder that it was just handed to me when I didn't actually earn it. There would be no real satisfaction in it. And I don't get the desire for a medal when you don't have the personal satisfaction of crossing the finish line to actually receive it. That said, I am not sure how I feel about people being swept within the last mile or so and still receiving the medal. On one hand I can understand the frustration of being swept so close to the end. On the other hand, it's an issue of personal satisfaction for me again. But someone getting a medal after being swept at mile 2? No way.

I am a slow runner...do 14-15 minutes per mile, but slowly increase my miles. No matter how much I train, I struggle to go any faster than that, but don't really find it much of a struggle to add distance. I had not thought of putting 2:45 as my time for a cushion as was mentioned here...I based it off 15 mpm, which is the slowest I go (usually closer to 14). So I'm hoping I didn't screw myself over as a result.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I would not keep a medal that I did not earn, but I don't blame others for making a different choice. I don't know how hard they tried or if they'll never have a chance to try again for some reason. Someone else having a medal in their home does not diminish the worth of mine. After all, you can BUY a medal on Ebay.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

Count me in the slow camp. Due to a lower back injury years ago, I can't really do much running before I start to feel the pain flare. But I really wanted to try the Disneyland 1/2 Marathon after being at the park for Labor Day weekend two years in row. After talking with some friendly runners who had finished, they emphasized that if I trained for it, I could walk the entire course and finish on time.

Last year, I had been training using Jeff Galloway's run/walk method with a 15/45 split until about 3 weeks before the Disneyland 1/2. For whatever reason, I started to experience severe pain in my legs about 5 minutes into my training that I couldn't get to go away. I had to cut a couple of sessions short. Not wanting to miss out on important training sessions with the race itself so close, I did the only thing I could. I walked my training sessions in their entirety, maintaining a 15 minute per mile pace. Since it was my first, I was in the last corral.

On race day itself, I tried to run a little bit, but found the pain returning, only all over the place this time. So less than a mile into the course, I could either drop out or walk the thing. So I started walking. It was hard. I hoped I could maintain pace for the entire course. At mile 1, the volunteers told us we were about a minute ahead of pace. That was the last I heard from them. At every mile marker, I knew I was doing okay. As the race went on, I actually picked up my pace and finished in 3:05.

I share this in the hopes that anyone who wonders whether or not they can do this will see it. If you train for it and maintain the finishing pace, you can do it. There will be times during training when you either don't want to go train or don't feel like it, especially on the longer runs. But these are the times when you must train and finish each session. This is what builds endurance. And at least for me, having maxed out at 14 miles before the race, I knew I could do 13.1. Now I just have to do it two more times so I can get my Coast to Coast medal.

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

Count me in the slow camp. Due to a lower back injury years ago, I can't really do much running before I start to feel the pain flare. But I really wanted to try the Disneyland 1/2 Marathon after being at the park for Labor Day weekend two years in row. After talking with some friendly runners who had finished, they emphasized that if I trained for it, I could walk the entire course and finish on time.

Last year, I had been training using Jeff Galloway's run/walk method with a 15/45 split until about 3 weeks before the Disneyland 1/2. For whatever reason, I started to experience severe pain in my legs about 5 minutes into my training that I couldn't get to go away. I had to cut a couple of sessions short. Not wanting to miss out on important training sessions with the race itself so close, I did the only thing I could. I walked my training sessions in their entirety, maintaining a 15 minute per mile pace. Since it was my first, I was in the last corral.

On race day itself, I tried to run a little bit, but found the pain returning, only all over the place this time. So less than a mile into the course, I could either drop out or walk the thing. So I started walking. It was hard. I hoped I could maintain pace for the entire course. At mile 1, the volunteers told us we were about a minute ahead of pace. That was the last I heard from them. At every mile marker, I knew I was doing okay. As the race went on, I actually picked up my pace and finished in 3:05.

I share this in the hopes that anyone who wonders whether or not they can do this will see it. If you train for it and maintain the finishing pace, you can do it. There will be times during training when you either don't want to go train or don't feel like it, especially on the longer runs. But these are the times when you must train and finish each session. This is what builds endurance. And at least for me, having maxed out at 14 miles before the race, I knew I could do 13.1. Now I just have to do it two more times so I can get my Coast to Coast medal.

Awesome story! You definitely earned that medal!! I hope you figured out what caused all that pain and it never comes back again!

mking624: You aren't setting yourself up for failure by claiming that time. You are giving yourself an extra buffer which is nice. More people need to do that because in most cases it motivates you more! You will get there, and get that medal placed around your neck at the finish line!

 

[Sleepless Knight]

Thanks. I'm not totally sure what caused the pain, but in hindsight I'm glad it happened. I learned what I was capable of if I simply endured. Not that enduring is easy, but it is possible.

 

[Ariel484]

Have read this thread with great interest because several years ago I read an account posted on these boards by a woman who was swept at mile 2 of the Half.

Several things made me see in her post

1) She had not gone more than 3 miles in her training

2) She complained how far it was from the drop off area at EPCOT to the starting corrals. I didn't know whether to laugh or scream when she commented that the walk from the corrals was just too far and did her in before the race start. She thought Disney should have the start next to the drop off point.

3) She ended by saying that she KNEW she was not going to finish when she registered! This is the one that really set me off. That year, the half had closed in MAY! Here was someone who knew they weren't going to train, weren't going to finish and they took a spot from someone who was willing to make the commitment to train to do the entire race!

I completely understand that even with training some race days "it is what it is" and you can't finish, but why for the love of Mike would you enter something KNOWING you have no intention of finishing!!

I volunteer for a local race company and act as the "caboose" in their races. At the last half marathon I worked I had 15-20 people who were not on pace and I had to tell them that they had a choice of hitching a ride in the sag wagon to the finish or they could turn in their bibs and continue on the course, but they were no longer part of the race, but rather on a long walk around town. EVERY SINGLE ONE ASKED IF THEY WOULD GET THEIR MEDALS

They are FINISHERS medals people - not "I showed up" medals! My sister and I have discussed this endlessly and the thing that bothers us about people with these attitudes to quote a coach friend is that they "Don't Respect the Distance".

Okay, now I will get off my soapbox.

I totally agree with ALL of this!

It's interesting how runDisney phrases districution of the finisher medals on their site:

*Participants must attend Packet Pick-up at Disney's Health & Fitness Expo to receive their race packet, bib, and tech shirt. Finisher medals will be distributed to finishers during the race. None of these items will be mailed to registrants that did not participate.

I mean, it says right there...medals are distributed DURING the race. Not at the finish line...DURING the race. Why call them finisher medals then?

Count me in the slow camp. Due to a lower back injury years ago, I can't really do much running before I start to feel the pain flare. But I really wanted to try the Disneyland 1/2 Marathon after being at the park for Labor Day weekend two years in row. After talking with some friendly runners who had finished, they emphasized that if I trained for it, I could walk the entire course and finish on time.

Last year, I had been training using Jeff Galloway's run/walk method with a 15/45 split until about 3 weeks before the Disneyland 1/2. For whatever reason, I started to experience severe pain in my legs about 5 minutes into my training that I couldn't get to go away. I had to cut a couple of sessions short. Not wanting to miss out on important training sessions with the race itself so close, I did the only thing I could. I walked my training sessions in their entirety, maintaining a 15 minute per mile pace. Since it was my first, I was in the last corral.

On race day itself, I tried to run a little bit, but found the pain returning, only all over the place this time. So less than a mile into the course, I could either drop out or walk the thing. So I started walking. It was hard. I hoped I could maintain pace for the entire course. At mile 1, the volunteers told us we were about a minute ahead of pace. That was the last I heard from them. At every mile marker, I knew I was doing okay. As the race went on, I actually picked up my pace and finished in 3:05.

I share this in the hopes that anyone who wonders whether or not they can do this will see it. If you train for it and maintain the finishing pace, you can do it. There will be times during training when you either don't want to go train or don't feel like it, especially on the longer runs. But these are the times when you must train and finish each session. This is what builds endurance. And at least for me, having maxed out at 14 miles before the race, I knew I could do 13.1. Now I just have to do it two more times so I can get my Coast to Coast medal.

Wow! Great job. I don't think I could EVER successfully walk a half. Thanks for posting this!

 

[JCH]

Have read this thread with great interest because several years ago I read an account posted on these boards by a woman who was swept at mile 2 of the Half.

Several things made me see in her post

1) She had not gone more than 3 miles in her training

2) She complained how far it was from the drop off area at EPCOT to the starting corrals. I didn't know whether to laugh or scream when she commented that the walk from the corrals was just too far and did her in before the race start. She thought Disney should have the start next to the drop off point.

3) She ended by saying that she KNEW she was not going to finish when she registered! This is the one that really set me off. That year, the half had closed in MAY! Here was someone who knew they weren't going to train, weren't going to finish and they took a spot from someone who was willing to make the commitment to train to do the entire race!

I completely understand that even with training some race days "it is what it is" and you can't finish, but why for the love of Mike would you enter something KNOWING you have no intention of finishing!!

I volunteer for a local race company and act as the "caboose" in their races. At the last half marathon I worked I had 15-20 people who were not on pace and I had to tell them that they had a choice of hitching a ride in the sag wagon to the finish or they could turn in their bibs and continue on the course, but they were no longer part of the race, but rather on a long walk around town. EVERY SINGLE ONE ASKED IF THEY WOULD GET THEIR MEDALS

They are FINISHERS medals people - not "I showed up" medals! My sister and I have discussed this endlessly and the thing that bothers us about people with these attitudes to quote a coach friend is that they "Don't Respect the Distance".

Okay, now I will get off my soapbox.

I wondered if we were taking about the same person, or this is happening more than once!

I hope the people worried about the sweepers understand that this is why we get upset about it. I have a ton of respect for newbies training just under sweeper pace who go out there and try. Getting swept at 8 or 11 should be motivation to know you almost made it, and can do it next time with a little more training. Heck, I'm not 100% sure i wont get swept at the Marathon, but I am training regardless and not letting that possibility make me stop. I am a slow run/walker, but slow and steady will get me there!

Getting swept at 2 is just being disrespectful to those who were training their butts off to try to beat the sweeper.

 

[cewait]

I am a coach but I was also a caboose runner when I started. It still does not change my viewpoint on medals for trying versus medals for finishing as I was about as close one could get to being swept in my first marathon.

I was not well trained by even my standards back then, but life kind of got in the way. I was wearing a pair of New Balance shoes that I never really liked but finances were not as balanced back then so I made do. I was also unblessed with rainy weekends so I was running the mill for all but two long runs. Finally, I was way overweight and was suffering from bouts of gouty arthritis.

That’s the background now flash forward to race day. I failed to sleep well the night before the race – ending up on the floor of room 1625 of the CBR. We had a party somewhere close to the room that lasted until past midnight that did not help. I woke up to the sounds of water flowing through pipes under the concrete and thinking crap, missed the race. I hurried and ran out to the bus, only to realize that I was catching the very first bus... should have looked at a clock closer.

I was in a hurry and never really checked how tight my shoes were. Shoes stretch as they age and in those days, one had to really work to keep the front of the shoe tight...simply tying the laces does not tighten the toe box well. Now into the race, at the mile 2 water stop someone bumped the water table and splash, my feet were soaked. The NB shoes I wore then were like rolling bathtubs. They failed to drain well once wet. Loose toe box and wet feet lead to what? Blisters. As I passed through mile 14 I stopped to see if I could treat a hot spot. Obviously nothing would stick and I ended up just lubing the balls of both feet. In the next mile Pop went a blister on one foot and in the following mile the other foot suffered the same.

I was relegated to a funny gaited walk from that point. Basically, 10 miles of death marching. My margin to the end was closing fast. I would try to run but would be forced back to a walk in less than a couple minutes. I made it all the way around to MGM and knew that I was mostly home. I had also heard that runners were pretty much left alone. I limped through MGM and onto the Boardwalk. My back was killing me from the funny gait. There is a steel rail between the sidewalk and the canal running from BW and MGM. I decided to lean over the fence to stretch out the back. I heard a “Please stand away from the fence” from behind. It was a medical cyclist. I guess he through I was about to jump. Back then we ran on the Boardwalk side of Crescent Lake. A little kid decided to race my from the bakery... I could have smacked him if I could have caught him. I would glance around and see my cyclist friend escorting me from the rear. Finally, I made my way up to Spaceship Earth and the cyclist disappeared as I left the park.

I was all I could do to make my way the last .2 miles. There were still folks in the stands cheering. I looked at the clock and it read 7:12. As I stopped I looked up and there was my cyclist friend grinning ear to ear, “You are a marathoner”



PG Stuff Skip if you get queasy. I made my way to the med tent to ice on the back. The technician asked if I needed anything else. As a second thought I said I may need help with a blister. I yanked off one shoe and he turned green and said that’s a 10. I had no idea what he was talking about. I looked and found the entire ball of the foot with a loose flap ... from under the big toe all the way out to the outer edge and into the arch on the back. He said hang on and went to grab a doctor. I thought that’s the good foot so I yanked off the other shoe. When the tech came back, he grinned and said you did not have to outdo yourself.

PG Part over.

I finished with a chip time of 7:09. I was so beat that I really could have cared less. All I wanted to do was sleep. In the results, I see that my stats were...

Age Group – 742 out of 742
Male Finishers – 4006 out of 4006
Overall – 7900 out of 7901.

I remember more from that race than any other race I have run. I have a mile by mile report that I can share that was based on the post race report. I could not walk for a week post race. I was happy to finish and even though I am second to the last officially, I know there were several (ok maybe 10) folks behind me.

You will hear me say that race day is the relentless pursuit of forward momentum. I firmly believe that if one keeps their head and keeps moving, they will be able to hold their head high post race.

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

Yikes, Coach! Never going to gripe about a blister again. Ouch! Thanks for sharing your experience. I can definitely see why you became a coach after that. Who you were then fitness-wise and who you are now are completely different people!

 

[StarGirl11]

1. Yes they do remove people from the race if they can't keep pace

2. I have heard it both ways. I think a couple of years back there was an issue with the half (or maybe the full) where people were cut off right outside the entrance to MK. I thought I read they didn't receive a medal.

Recently I have been hearing that you get one regardless. Someone posted this info on the RunDisney facebook page. Obviously neither are completely reliable sources but that is what I have read. I was honestly quite surprised to read that you do in fact receive a medal but I guess (again from reading the post on fb) that people complained that they paid a lot of money and whatever and deserved the medal.

I can account for the medal. I got sick with a bad sinus infection for about three weeks right before the full this year. I was pulled off about mile 15. Yes we were given a medal, its identical to the regular race medal. And yes the feelings towards it are different from ones I actually earned by finishing. But it's the thought that counts because almost all of us pulled onto the bus that I can remember had something acting up.

Now that's for the full I can't say about the half races but with the full that's how it worked.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

What a story coach. Amazing. I appreciate everyone who has shared their stories of success and effort, even if that effort fell short of finishing.

If you had asked me about getting a medal for trying a year ago, I may well have given you a different answer. If you had told me when I was in all sorts of pain less than a mile into the race that I would have gotten that medal simply for trying, I may have taken you up on that offer and dropped out right after I had started since I wanted that medal. But as I look back on it, I see that I would have missed out on so much.

I would have missed out on learning what I could do. I wouldn't have seen the old lady with a sign near Downtown Disney that said "Hello total stranger, I'm proud of you too." I wouldn't have gained a greater appreciation for my ancestors who crossed the American west day after day for months in far more trying circumstances than my 1/2 marathon through Anaheim with Disneyland waiting at the end. I wouldn't have felt the rush of running through Angels Stadium where I once dreamed of playing baseball and feelig the rush of the crowd cheering for you. That day I learned a lot about myself. And I wouldn't have learned any of it if I hadn't wanted to keep trying.

As many others have said, if you sacrifice the time and put forth the effort to train at the necessary pace, you will hold your head on race day. And you will feel great about what you have accomplished.

 

[dburg30]

I suppose I'll chime in also!

I would be bummed to come home without a medal after having paid for the race and spent the money to travel to Disney...just to be empty handed. But if I received a medal when I didn't finish, I'd forever look at that medal as a reminder that it was just handed to me when I didn't actually earn it. There would be no real satisfaction in it. And I don't get the desire for a medal when you don't have the personal satisfaction of crossing the finish line to actually receive it. That said, I am not sure how I feel about people being swept within the last mile or so and still receiving the medal. On one hand I can understand the frustration of being swept so close to the end. On the other hand, it's an issue of personal satisfaction for me again. But someone getting a medal after being swept at mile 2? No way.

I am a slow runner...do 14-15 minutes per mile, but slowly increase my miles. No matter how much I train, I struggle to go any faster than that, but don't really find it much of a struggle to add distance. I had not thought of putting 2:45 as my time for a cushion as was mentioned here...I based it off 15 mpm, which is the slowest I go (usually closer to 14). So I'm hoping I didn't screw myself over as a result.

You wouldnt be empty handed.. you'd have a shirt

 

[EMHDad]

Two thoughts...

First, I have been running off and on for about 2.5 years. I have had a big move and several back issues in that time that have disrupted my routine. Also, I hate northern winters! That said, I am back into running with a registered 6 mile mud run in 1 month. I love training (mostly lol) and work at keeping myself committed.

However, in reading I was shocked (I guess I shouldnt be) to hear that people actually ran half and full marathons on lackluster, unprepared training. That amazes me!


Second, anyone watch 'How I Met Your Mother'? In one episode Marshal was training for the NYC marathon but got hurt days before the event. Barney, the day before boasted he could run it, with NO training. To prove a point, he took Marshal's bib and ran the WHOLE race with no training. However, the great part was that when he sat down on the subway afterward he could not get up at his stop and spent the ENTIRE day riding the subway because he couldnt move.

 

[mking624]

You wouldnt be empty handed.. you'd have a shirt

LOL true. Quite a bit of money for a shirt...

 

[MightyDuck001]

Two thoughts...
Second, anyone watch 'How I Met Your Mother'? In one episode Marshal was training for the NYC marathon but got hurt days before the event. Barney, the day before boasted he could run it, with NO training. To prove a point, he took Marshal's bib and ran the WHOLE race with no training. However, the great part was that when he sat down on the subway afterward he could not get up at his stop and spent the ENTIRE day riding the subway because he couldnt move.

Have you seen the Rules of Engagement episode where the guy decides to run the marathon two days before and says, "I ran cross country in high school!"

 

[stargazertechie]

Two thoughts...


However, in reading I was shocked (I guess I shouldnt be) to hear that people actually ran half and full marathons on lackluster, unprepared training. That amazes me!

My husband is one of those people that runners love to hate. 2010 marathon he quit training in September, after registering. We got to the expo (I had kept training and felt quite good) and he saw the medal and decided he HAD to have it. So 48 hours before the race he picked up his packet and decided to quit smoking.

Fast forward to race day. I was NOT prepared for the weather. I happily pulled off at mile marker 13, deciding that regaining feeling my limbs was worth more than a medal, and it was a perfectly good day for a 1/2 marathon

Imagine my surprise when I got a call from my husband several hours later telling me to pick him up at the finish line. He was limping, frozen solid, and miserable, but he finished. No training, smokers lungs, and all

He doesn't like to talk about how he felt the week afterwards though

 

[cewait]

EMHDad et al, this thread has kind of morphed into a stack of I can do it less prepared than you and lower my training 5 thread.

By no means as a coach will I condone running a marathon on no training. I think it unwise.... but I know it can be done and I know through training runners the programs we develop are full of overkill. Is it wise to pare back a plan? Not really, the build up most plans have is pulled together following age tested rules of thumb that have worked through the years. Can you do well on less? Yes, most runners can do better on less - IF they have the mental game. The mental game is 90% of a marathon. If you can convince the brain that this is normal and it really will not hurt in the morning, then you probably can do with less.

But, everyone here should resolve to follow their appointed plans. Run the hard runs hard and the long runs, well...long. Maybe it's better to say aerobically but it kills the rhyme. DO NOT beat your self up for missing one long run or even two. Know that a missed run is a missed run and just let it pass. That missed run will take some funds out of the training bank, but a run here and there is ok.

There is no reason that anyone who has signed up and is not with broken limb or torn soft tissue cannot make the 20th in fine fashion. Even those who may read this and say I dunno, I am only able to push 17:20 on my last couple long runs. Remember, its hot and you have to slow up to dissipate heat. Mid fall is like a speed pump. The cooler drier weather will take time off in a hurry. Also, those dreads midweek hard runs will push times down.

Train hard and eat clean.

 

[indygirl99]

EMHDad et al, this thread has kind of morphed into a stack of I can do it less prepared than you and lower my training 5 thread.

By no means as a coach will I condone running a marathon on no training. I think it unwise.... but I know it can be done and I know through training runners the programs we develop are full of overkill. Is it wise to pare back a plan? Not really, the build up most plans have is pulled together following age tested rules of thumb that have worked through the years. Can you do well on less? Yes, most runners can do better on less - IF they have the mental game. The mental game is 90% of a marathon. If you can convince the brain that this is normal and it really will not hurt in the morning, then you probably can do with less.

But, everyone here should resolve to follow their appointed plans. Run the hard runs hard and the long runs, well...long. Maybe it's better to say aerobically but it kills the rhyme. DO NOT beat your self up for missing one long run or even two. Know that a missed run is a missed run and just let it pass. That missed run will take some funds out of the training bank, but a run here and there is ok.

There is no reason that anyone who has signed up and is not with broken limb or torn soft tissue cannot make the 20th in fine fashion. Even those who may read this and say I dunno, I am only able to push 17:20 on my last couple long runs. Remember, its hot and you have to slow up to dissipate heat. Mid fall is like a speed pump. The cooler drier weather will take time off in a hurry. Also, those dreads midweek hard runs will push times down.

Train hard and eat clean.

I look at those who finish with little or no training as the exception NOT the rule.

I know for me there will be no finish without training, and a lot of training. I am looking forward to those cool fall days to run but will have to figure out how to run in the rain since I live in the Pacific Northwet I mean west.

I find it is easier to run outside in the morning, 62 degree today, than in the evenings in the high 70's.