Help - ready to buy, but feel like it's "too good to be true"

[avidadventurer]

M

We stay primarily at bwv and BLT. That's all we really want and expect. We want monorail or walking distance to parks. Bwv was bought during the recession (psyche) and BLT was also half the current direct price. We saved over $25,000.

Full experience? My kids are 2 and 6. We will hold on for another 10yrs.... maybe. We don't need NOR WANT 50yrs at Disney. Not with the current ticket prices... No thank you.

I'm almost 45. I'll be lucky to last another 35 years. I'm not gonna care about Disney in 15 years when I'm 60 and my kids are in college. I will, however, like the 25k we saved over direct prices. That 25k is not a small sum.

Why are you such a proponent of direct purchases? Do you have a vested interest?
No vested interest, member myself as well as parents have been members for 25 years, I have had several friends and met several people that bought resale but when you can buy a deed at the poly for about 140ish to 150 ish pp with promotions now that has 49 3/4 years left and get full use of membership now and later then people need to be informed. 200 points at poly now is $154.25 dollars per point = @ 3.10 pp per year Akv resale at let's say $90 pp is $2.20 per point per year now the annual dues are $6.42 at akv for a total of $8.61
Poly total of $9.19 pp per year, soooooo
Mrs. Attorney show me the overall savings.....


I'm a lawyer, my father is not a lawyer (he's a doctor so his biz sense sucks). I know very well I bought a timeshare and only the rooms are guaranteed. I saved money buying resale for my guaranteed deluxe level rooms....

 

[avidadventurer]

I saved $19,250 buying resale plus the $3,887 I made renting the banked points. Over the next 41 years, that comes to just under $565 per year. That's 1/3 of my dues!

So you rent out complete weeks or single days too?

 

[Coamfo]

So you rent out complete weeks or single days too?

I rented out 3 days to some family friends, 10 days to a stranger, and a weekend away to my parents. (I told them they didn't have to pay but they insisted)

 

[avidadventurer]

It really does seem to me that avidadventurer DOES have a vested interest. She joined yesterday and all 40 of her posts have been on this topic schilling for direct purchase of DVC.

say what you want, I do not have any vested interest, nor do I work for Disney or any affiliates or resale companies, I love my membership and as do my parents, but I have had several friends that have looked into membership and found this page as I did and have read through it and seems to be a bunch of mis information that eventually spoils it for us members that pay a premium to allow Disney to make our membership more magical and build more resorts, the biggest issue I have is people renting points out to others for short periods of time which in turn blocks out members from obtaining long concurrent stays.

 

[suebeelin]

A lot of ppl don't want poly with its thin walls and their only studio option.

If I did not own dvc already I would likely rent right now instead. Imo, renting makes more financial sense given the high prices of both the direct and resale markets.

I have no problem with renters. They provide my dvc with more value should the resale market bottom out. I already have my 11mo where I don't mind staying, so no 7 mo scramble for me!

 

[lovewdwfun]

Wow. Is Disney now having its guides come on message boards to convince people to buy direct? I work as a finance executive. I have done the math many times. Buy resale.

I looked on two different DVC resale websites and there any many AKV contracts for sale at $85 or less. Seems like many have been selling at $78 (I have always purchased at less than asking). That is less than HALF the Poly price. I don't know how someone could possibly come up with a $110 figure.

As far as the dues go, why not just buy Saratoga if that is a factor? Dues are less than Poly. I have a Saratoga contract and have yet to stay there. I have, at 7 months, stayed at GFV, BLT, BCV, AKV, and BWV with those points.

I should also note that you need to consider the time value of money to have the math correct. Anyone with a finance background would be cringing at the mah done in this thread. Let's say you are buying 200 points and the difference is $18,000 up front (yes, that is the difference). What would you do with that money? If you invest in the market or your 401K, you should average at least 5% after inflation. At 5% per year, your $18,000 will be worth $133,000 in today's dollars. Still worried about those extra nine years? If you have any specific scenarios you want me to run, I would be happy to plug some numbers into a spreadsheet for you.

 

[avidadventurer]

A lot of ppl don't want poly with its thin walls and their only studio option.

Thankfully we have what we want... Bwv at a fire sale price from 2011 and BLT at half of current direct prices.

I would NOT EVER buy akv, nor would I buy resale for any of the properties except SSR or maybe bwv at today's prices. And I DEFINITELY wouldn't buy direct. Not at $165/170pp.

If I did not own dvc already I would likely rent right now instead. Imo, renting makes more financial sense given the high prices of both the direct and resale markets.

The price is def very high, but I expect them to be even higher once enhancements are completing and more resorts are added. They will ALWAYS probably get what they ask for as far as ppp, where I believe this is going is to extras that cost them very little and give members a huge bump in benifits, still if you can get a 49+ year deed for a monorail resort for about $154 pp, that's not a bad deal, and if you get back dated points which I was offered, you could would be at $141 pp if you rented points that you received from previous year.

 

[avidadventurer]

Wow. Is Disney now having its guides come on message boards to convince people to buy direct? I work as a finance executive. I have done the math many times. Buy resale.
If you are referring to me, I'm actually employed by Google and on vacation at moment in Orlando at Bay Lake Tower 3 bedroom Grand Villa Theme park view. So your wrong.

I looked on two different DVC resale websites and there any many AKV contracts for sale at $85 or less. Seems like many have been selling at $78 (I have always purchased at less than asking). That is less than HALF the Poly price. I don't know how someone could possibly come up with a $110 figure.

As far as the dues go, why not just buy Saratoga if that is a factor? Dues are less than Poly. I have a Saratoga contract and have yet to stay there. I have, at 7 months, stayed at GFV, BLT, BCV, AKV, and BWV with those points.

I should also note that you need to consider the time value of money to have the math correct. Anyone with a finance background would be cringing at the mah done in this thread. Let's say you are buying 200 points and the difference is $18,000 up front (yes, that is the difference). What would you do with that money? If you invest in the market or your 401K, you should average at least 5% after inflation. At 5% per year, your $18,000 will be worth $133,000 in today's dollars. Still worried about those extra nine years? If you have any specific scenarios you want me to run, I would be happy to plug some numbers into a spreadsheet for you.

 

[suebeelin]

The price is def very high, but I expect them to be even higher once enhancements are completing and more resorts are added. They will ALWAYS probably get what they ask for as far as ppp, where I believe this is going is to extras that cost them very little and give members a huge bump in benifits, still if you can get a 49+ year deed for a monorail resort for about $154 pp, that's not a bad deal, and if you get back dated points which I was offered, you could would be at $141 pp if you rented points that you received from previous year.

I thought you were anti renting? Why did you just propose renting back dated (developer) points? Why the zealousness in buying direct?

I can understand if you feel you have so much disposable income that 5 figures is a drop in the bucket, so buying direct is no big deal. However, that kind of attitude also means not caring if another person buys "a less precious" used item.... But here you are an avid proponent.... You seem to care so very very much, more so than most.

Most direct buyers say to themselves, whatever, I don't want the hassle of buying resale and I like buying at a premium (that's how I am with new vs used cars) but don't care if another person buys "used".

Analogy: I buy new cars. I don't want to deal with the hassle of a used car. However, I don't go bashing used cars as a bad buy. Nor do I waste my time trying to convince everyone a new car is the only way to go....

In fact, I know I should buy a used car. But it's just not worth the hassle TO ME.

 

[kniquy]

It really does seem to me that avidadventurer DOES have a vested interest. She joined yesterday and all 40 of her posts have been on this topic schilling for direct purchase of DVC.

Sure seems like it - a new member and already so opinionated.

the biggest issue I have is people renting points out to others for short periods of time which in turn blocks out members from obtaining long concurrent stays.

How is renting points for a couple days any different than a member booking 2 or 3 days. Many people do a few days because they have annual passes or live close enough to drive down for long weekends. I don't think the booking habits of rentals is posing any more of a problem than members booking habits. If anything people renting points probably are planning a vacation that they might not take for another 5 years so they would be more likely to book a week +. My one rental was a 3 day stay but that was because it was kind of last minute (2 months out) around NYE -- that was all they had available. So my 3 day rental probably helped them meet their occupancy %.

My AKV purchase was 120 points at $80pp. What was your purchase?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The timing of avidadventurer joining, the sharing of info just prior to it being announced all point towards a DVC troll. They have provided a fair amount of misinformation that attempts to place direct purchases in a better light. They also stated inside connections. Whether getting a check or not they are working for DVC in the same manner.

 

[Dean]

Please do yourself a favor and do the math, it is not but @ $80 a year on 100 points purchase at AKV via resale, and you run risk of losing future benifits, did you get the developer credit with your purchase that I was offered? I think as a new member you have to purchase 150 or more to get it, we were offered it at 100 point start due to being members.

It is still not saving money, math doesn't lie, save on purchase upfront loose on back end down the road, and restrict your membership, I have thought this long and hard and did the math ( Statistics major) and unless you are staying at one resort and the one you buy your deed out of it makes no sense. Unless you get a new property for under $90 pp

$80 difference up front and/or financed is several hundred thousand difference over the life of a contract. Roughly $350K on 200 points. That is the math. Whether a given option is worth the difference might be another matter. AKV resale vs Poly retail (it's all used now) was the questions asked. There are options that are cheaper long term than AKV, certainly BLT and SSR are and likely OKW as well either version.

Ok, remember when I said I heard 3 phases, it may be next not sure, if I hear different I'll update everyone. I see where they are going, they want to generate a little more revenue and build more resorts but if everyone keeps buying resale then DVC will not grow as much as far as new resorts. I want more resorts and less of rental companies renting out one and two nights that take up a whole week that my family could use, that's what pisses me off. These rental companies don't mind renting out a night or two of points because they are doing a lot of volume but in the end it hurts members for reservations

There are almost certainly going to be changes in this area over time. They can't remove core benefits and one should only buy for those core benefits and consider anything else gravy. Anything lost resale vs retail will be trinkets, nothing more. But if it's important to a given person they could buy resale and add on 25 points retail. The ability to rent is contractual subject to the commercial restrictions which is about volume not price or method.

BUY Direct!!! Would you buy a new tire from a used tire dealer and expect a warranty on that tire? This is your family's future vacations you are talking about, why buy resale and save $200 dollars a year at most??? Makes no sense.

DVC is all used, the only questions are the price paid and whether you get free oil changes. As documented above, the price difference is dramatic with those numbers. The long term value of the Poly is likely to track BLT and not VGF.

The timing of avidadventurer joining, the sharing of info just prior to it being announced all point towards a DVC troll. They have provided a fair amount of misinformation that attempts to place direct purchases in a better light. They also stated inside connections. Whether getting a check or not they are working for DVC in the same manner.

I agree, it does have the feel of someone with a vested interest in others buying retail, maybe relative of a DVD employee or something similar if not an employee.

 

[ScubaCat]

The timing of avidadventurer joining, the sharing of info just prior to it being announced all point towards a DVC troll. They have provided a fair amount of misinformation that attempts to place direct purchases in a better light. They also stated inside connections. Whether getting a check or not they are working for DVC in the same manner.

Don't forget about that $23,000 software he/she has that is apparently smarter and knows things that nobody else on this board has ever been able to figure out...

I guess I should have just spent $20K more on the exact same thing. After all, it is a "used" membership, and that's clearly the same exact thing as buying a used tire.

 

[davper]

I have heard that sweeping changes to resale are on the way, We have owned for 9 years and love the membership. There have been a few bad experiences but nothing like renting points and staying at regular hotels.
We are looking into buying 300 more points at the Poly resort from developer since they have a decent deal going at moment.
As for the changes in regards to resale purchase it is not worth it to me to possibly miss out on future options and for those that say DVC can't do this and that, let me tell you my father has 10 years in biz law and told me that for the most part if DVC wanted to change the usage of membership for resale buyers, well they can.
BUY direct and enjoy is my family's opinion.

Everyone hears that sweeping changes are on the way. Very rarely do they materialize. But the changes to perks don't matter because that is not why you purchase DVC.
Why is renting points considered a bad experience?
When did your father start practicing law, after you graduated college? It is very rare for a long practicing attorney to switch specialties. Not impossible but very rare.

How is this^, at 150pp and 41 years left you are not saving a dime, do the math, we did and the poly is what we went with due to the savings and being last resort on Monorail. $168 pp/49.8 years left is about $3.50 pp per year and annual dues this year at $6.09= 9.59 per point this year, animal kingdom is about 100-110 to get past rofr and annual dues are about $6.42 total of about 8.85 -$9.10 pp per year this year,which means you save @.50 pp! and with what we were quoted if we buy @300 points we get about $4,000 off of price which brings cost of poly this year down to @ $9.19. Why cut yourself short for such minimal savings!

What are you comparing to at 150 pp for 41 years? This sounds like the Direct from DVD price for AKV. Who in their right mind is going to pay 150 when they can pay 85.
So let's do the math using the correct prices
$85/41 years = $2.073 per point for the life of the contract for AKV bought resale.
$165/50 years = $3.30 per point for the life of the contract for PVB bought direct.

On a 150 point contract, that is a $12,000 dollar savings guaranteed on day of purchase. Invested at a very conservative 5% will result in almost $85,000 is savings over the life of the contract. That is an annual savings of $1,700.

I purposely left off the dues because they change from year to year and all resorts have them.

Keep in mind that the DVC contract specifically states that not to consider perks as part of your purchasing decision because they can remove them at anytime. So no guarantee on perks like you are trying to push.

Here is the other big kicker you fail to tell the OP. Home resort advantage. You are getting a 4 month window advantage at your home resort. So if you want to guarantee that you can stay wen you want, buy where you want. If the prices were identical at AKV and PVB, even with the time remaining, AKV is still the better value if that is the resort you want to stay at.

This didn't come from a guide, it came from someone that works in legal for DVD, so don't what what to tell ya, it is in three phases over next two years

You wouldn't hear this from legal. If you did, they don't work there any more. Everyone in that department understands the ramifications if information is leaked too soon. A lawyer wouldn't tell this to their spouse until it is public knowledge.

It was passed along through a member that knows a higher up lawyer for Disney Vacation Development.

I would sooner beleive that it came from a disney bus driver.

and you run risk of losing future benifits

This is true with both direct and resale. It says so in the contracts

I wanted to purchase Grand Floridian and Bay Lake Towers and nothing was available last week, I received a call from DVC and was told they just received a few hundred points in both resorts, just call a guide is your best bet. My guide is very good, a few members on here have him as well and love him.

This is impressive, you must know someone very high up in Disney management. As of 2 months ago, the wait list for VGF was full and closed to new memebers.

Did you see the BOLD type that said "This Policy Change" be ready for more....

Yes, this is not the first policy change and won't be the last. Unless this was going to be the last change, ever, they couldn't word that any differently.

BUY Direct!!! Would you buy a new tire from a used tire dealer and expect a warranty on that tire? This is your family's future vacations you are talking about, why buy resale and save $200 dollars a year at most??? Makes no sense.

Bad analogy. You are not buying a used tire for a warranty. you are buying a used tire because it is all you can afford at the moment or you are not ready to replace all 4.
Buying direct does not give you any guarantees different than what a resale gets. They both get x number of points to use each year. They both get the right to book at the home resort before anyone else. Neither is guaranteed perks.

And your $200 a year savings at most comment. Yeah, using simple division and multiplication above, I showed this number to be well short of the truth.

same room, how much did you pay per point and what resort did you buy and when, also how many points?

What is all that added info going to prove? Whether they bought 50 points or 500 points. The cheaper cost for resale means that they are going to pay less for the same than you if you bought direct.

It really does seem to me that avidadventurer DOES have a vested interest. She joined yesterday and all 40 of her posts have been on this topic schilling for direct purchase of DVC.

Agree 1000% and I would disregard this person's comments when making your decision.
DVC Mike has posted great factual info that you should read through. It covers resale and direct. http://www.disboards.com/threads/☆-★-the-dvc-information-center-★-☆.3436037/

say what you want, I do not have any vested interest, nor do I work for Disney or any affiliates or resale companies, I love my membership and as do my parents, but I have had several friends that have looked into membership and found this page as I did and have read through it and seems to be a bunch of mis information that eventually spoils it for us members that pay a premium to allow Disney to make our membership more magical and build more resorts, the biggest issue I have is people renting points out to others for short periods of time which in turn blocks out members from obtaining long concurrent stays.

If you don't work for them, then you are bored as hell to create an account for the first time in the 3 years you have been lurking, as you claimed on another post, while you are at the BLT right now.
You are the one giving misinformation. In fact, the info you are giving is what a salesman would say to get someone to make a purchase before they had time to get the real facts.

 

[mynameisnobody]

...


I would sooner beleive that it came from a disney bus driver.


...

The bus driver probably stands a better chance of being right.

 

[ScubaCat]

The bus driver probably stands a better chance of being right.

I think a bus driver is trolling us on this forum.

Just kidding. The bus drivers are a LOT nicer than that

 

[UpcommingBerry]

Thanks everyone. We are still deciding, and have been considering the options and frustrated because we decided poly is where we want to stay, and looking at the availability 7 months put we see that some dates are already full.....so the 11 months would be nice.

I think now it boils down to if we want to be able to have poly every time, or if we are ok staying at animal or other locations of poly is booked 7 months out.

 

[mynameisnobody]

It really sounds to me like you know what the answer is. You like the Poly and that is your number 1 location. Continue with the direct purchase and don't look back. There are only a handful of Poly contracts on the resale market right now so it probably doesn't make any sense to purchase Poly at resale especially since the difference is only $20 per point or about 11%. The membership extra definitely make up the difference in this case.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

Thanks everyone. We are still deciding, and have been considering the options and frustrated because we decided poly is where we want to stay, and looking at the availability 7 months put we see that some dates are already full.....so the 11 months would be nice.

I think now it boils down to if we want to be able to have poly every time, or if we are ok staying at animal or other locations of poly is booked 7 months out.

Yeah, I think that's the most important point. If staying at Poly is important to you, then owning at Poly is the way to go.

Just FYI, I'm not sure how you are checking availability, but you have to be a DVC member to see what it actually is (unless you have access to a friend's DVC account). There is *some* availability depending on what you are looking at. For a Poly standard view studio, for example, July 20-23 is available, so it's not like it's completely full, but yeah having the 11 month window helps a lot.

 

[Dean]

Thanks everyone. We are still deciding, and have been considering the options and frustrated because we decided poly is where we want to stay, and looking at the availability 7 months put we see that some dates are already full.....so the 11 months would be nice.

I think now it boils down to if we want to be able to have poly every time, or if we are ok staying at animal or other locations of poly is booked 7 months out.

Many new buyers let the emotions of their presumed preference or the new and exciting option sway them into spending more than they have to. Or they let the retail benefits or the direct and easy but expensive option cloud their judgement. I'd rent and explore if you don't have considerable DVC or Disney AND timeshare experience.