HELP problems with Flash

[G-Z-G Mom]

Ok...My husband went crazy at Christmas and bought me a small set of studio lights to support my interest in photograpy. I have been so intimidated by them I am just now getting them out, setting them up and trying to use them. Let's just say this first attempt was a rip roaring failure! I have read the manuals and they may as well be in Greek for me. Is there anyone out there with experience with studio lights that can help me. Here's what I've got so you can know where to start with me. My camera is a Cannon Digital Rebel 300D. The lights are Smith Vector FlashLight 300 IX. I was able to figure out that I needed an adaptor to hook the lights up to my camera's hot shoe. I got that, hooked up the camera and was able to get both flash units to flash. The problem is that the camera's shutter stays open WAY too long. The image is burned out and has "gosties" floating around the subject where I"ve moved the camera. If I have the lights on full power it blows my picture out. If I reduce the power of the flash I get a good image but the shutter is open WAY too long so I have a good image with secondary images all over and around it. It's like the camera was trying to shoot but didn't know that the lights were there!

If you don't know how to fix my problem, maybe you know where to send me to find out? I can go to my local camera shop that sold this to my husband but I just feel so stupid for not being able to figure out how to do this! These lights are so cool but I just have no clue what so ever! Thanks so much for your help!
Barbi

 

[Ronda93]

I'm not experienced with your Cannon, but it sounds like it's on an auto setting and not compensating for the flash. The lights and camera don't know about each other.

I expect that you'll need to use the camera's manual settings. Start with a medium setting on the lights and f8 and your camera's highest synch speed (1/250?). Take notes and adjust from there.

ETA: What a great gift!

 

[ndelaware]

I was wondering why you are not using the manual settings also.

I think if Kelly sees this thread she will be able to help you immensely.

 

[PaulD]

It sounds like Ronda93 is right and you aren't using Manual mode. I doubt that a studio flash setup is going to use ETTL. I think the camera can only tell the flashes when to fire. The reason you're getting ghosting is probably because the shutter is open too long. So, you need to use Manual mode, set the shutter to 1/200 (no ghosting), and then set the aperture and flash to an appropriate setting to get the exposure you want. This will take some experimentation. I would suggest that you select an aperture to get the depth of field you want then adjust the flash output until it looks right.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Kelly Grannell]

I'm not familiar with that particular flash you're using. However, it seems like it's not reading E-TTL metering from the camera hence it only gets the "flash-on" signal.

Either use the manual mode on both camera and the flash, or set the flash to a certain shutter speed (max 1/250 on the 300D, but I recommend to not use faster than 1/125) and just use Tv set to 1/125.

I don't mean to pry, but is it possible for you to exchange the flash with a Sigma 500 DG ST (or preferably 500 DG Super)? It's going to make your life much easier especially for spur-of-the-moment shots rather than using manual/auto mode (the Sigma reads E-TTL metering signal from 300D).

Just an addition. If you're using a manual mode, it's easier if you use something like a Sekonic L-308 flash meter to measure the lighting.

Sorry I can't help further.

 

[G-Z-G Mom]

Wow...you guys are great! Now I know where to start working on this problem. I KNEW it must be in the camera-flash conversation! I was shooting in program mode...I guess just because I've gotten lazy and used to using that mode. I'll work this evening to see if I can remember how to even shoot in manual mode...lol! It really wasn't that long ago when I had a a fully manual SLR workhorse of a camera that I just adored! I fought going to a camera with "bells and whistles" and fought going digital tooth and nail. Now, I just couldn't do without!

Ok...you used some terms that I don't know...you've got to help me out again. What is ETTL? I understand how to do the apperture and shutter speed and how to work with getting it right. I'm thinking I need to dig out my old light meter and but it back to use if I"m going to go all the way back to manual. Can I use the P, TV, or A modes or do I need to go straight to M?

Also, about the lights...Kelly confused me a little. I can't exchange the lights at this point so it's probably a moot point. Are the lights you re talking about (Sigma 500 DG ST (or preferably 500 DG Super)) also studio lights? When you say that they're better for more spur of the moment shooting are we still talking about lights on stands with reflector umbrellas and or soft boxes? Just the set up on this took a while. I'm thinking my speedlight is what I use for spur of the moment shooting but these studio lights are for doing more portrait work. The lighting set up I have kept up with my shooting. It will recycle and flash VERY quickly. I just couldn't get my camera to know what was going on to shut the shutter correctly! I can't imagine setting up any kind of studio lights for spur of the moment shooting. Tell me what Sigma 500 DG ST is so I'll know what you're talking about!

Thanks so much for your help! I'll post this evening when I try your sugestions and let you know how it's going~
Barbi

 

[ndelaware]

ETTL is Canon's "Evaluative Thru The Lense" flash technology. Everything you could possible want to know about it is here: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/#ettl It is a long and somewhat boring read but it will explain why your camera and flash do what they do.

The Sigma flashes Kelly mentioned are "on camera" flashes, like the Canon Speedlites.

If I were you I would set my aperture to the desired depth of field for your subject and adjust the shutter to get the desired exposure. Without some communication between the camera and the flashes you will always get overexposed images. There is no way for the camera to know the flashes are there.

 

[MICKEY88]

Ok...My husband went crazy at Christmas and bought me a small set of studio lights to support my interest in photograpy. I have been so intimidated by them I am just now getting them out, setting them up and trying to use them. Let's just say this first attempt was a rip roaring failure! I have read the manuals and they may as well be in Greek for me. Is there anyone out there with experience with studio lights that can help me. Here's what I've got so you can know where to start with me. My camera is a Cannon Digital Rebel 300D. The lights are Smith Vector FlashLight 300 IX. I was able to figure out that I needed an adaptor to hook the lights up to my camera's hot shoe. I got that, hooked up the camera and was able to get both flash units to flash. The problem is that the camera's shutter stays open WAY too long. The image is burned out and has "gosties" floating around the subject where I"ve moved the camera. If I have the lights on full power it blows my picture out. If I reduce the power of the flash I get a good image but the shutter is open WAY too long so I have a good image with secondary images all over and around it. It's like the camera was trying to shoot but didn't know that the lights were there!

If you don't know how to fix my problem, maybe you know where to send me to find out? I can go to my local camera shop that sold this to my husband but I just feel so stupid for not being able to figure out how to do this! These lights are so cool but I just have no clue what so ever! Thanks so much for your help!
Barbi

the easiest way to make this work would be to by a light meter that will also read studio flash.


at a good bookstore or online at amazon.. you should be able to find a book on using studio flash.
the key is to set them at the right distance and have them at the right ratio



some tutorials...

http://www.ephotozine.com/equipment/buyersguide/fullbuyersguide.cfm?buyersguideid=26

http://www.vividlight.com/articles/1916.htm



http://forums.photographyreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11

 

[Kelly Grannell]

yup, what Mickey88 and Ndelaware said

 

[Geoff_M]

To amplify what's already been mentioned... With non-dedicated studio lighting, the first step is to go buy a flash meter! Without it, the manual exposure settings you'll use will be mainly trial and error.

 

[labdogs42]

I had the same situation! My Dh also bought me the studio light set up (two lights on stands with umbrellas) and I had the darndest time setting it up to work! One thing we found out was we needed a special digital remote sensor thingy (I know, very helpful, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was called). It was a small cube shaped thing that connected to one of the light stands. If that wasn't connected just right to the lights, they didn't work right. When I made sure it was plugged in all the way, my lights worked fine, even with the camera (Canon EOS 20D) set on the "green" setting. If I can figure out what that thing was called I'll let you know. Sorry I wasn't more help!

 

[MICKEY88]

I had the same situation! My Dh also bought me the studio light set up (two lights on stands with umbrellas) and I had the darndest time setting it up to work! One thing we found out was we needed a special digital remote sensor thingy (I know, very helpful, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was called). It was a small cube shaped thing that connected to one of the light stands. If that wasn't connected just right to the lights, they didn't work right. When I made sure it was plugged in all the way, my lights worked fine, even with the camera (Canon EOS 20D) set on the "green" setting. If I can figure out what that thing was called I'll let you know. Sorry I wasn't more help!

a slave..???

 

[G-Z-G Mom]

ROFLOL Labdogs 42. You didn't answer a question for me but you sure did make me feel MUCH better!!!! It is honestly so embarrasing to go into my camera store and say to them digital remote sensor thingy but you are speaking my language! I would much rather come here and have you guys take a stab in the dark than go to them and look them in the eyes and say thing-a-ma-bob or doodad. I feel so stupid over this. I know my husband went all out buying this for me and I'm just too much of an amature to know what to do with it!

When DH gets home to take over with the kids I'm going to give this another stab and see if I can't get back on track. Let me know what the digital cube thingie is if you figure it out because I really don't think my kit came with one. After I got the darned things out and set up (a little tricky when you've never seen one before and the direcetions are really lean) I realized that I needed a small non-digital cube thingie that was an adaptor to my camera's hot shoe for the cords from the light kit to plug into. I guess the people that sell the light kit assume you would have a higher end camera than I have if you are going to use studio lights....sigh!
Barbi

 

[Kelly Grannell]

Mickey88 answered it correctly. You need a slave unit (either wired, wireless IR or wireless RF)

 

[G-Z-G Mom]

Okie Dokie...here's feedback on your help! I set the camera on Manual and it worked like a gem! I used the settings you suggested and got pretty good results. Now it's just a matter of fiddling with it.

I had a strange experience trying to buy a light meter. I thought I had one but now that I think about it I believe I sold it on eBay long ago. It was really old if I remember right. So... I went to the local camera shop here that deals with more pro/am equiptment. The manager there had been very helpful in encouraging me and telling me what equiptment I'd need to get set up to shoot portraits. When he had originally worked with me he told me that a light meter was a MUST. When I went in to buy one, he researched what they had and said that the only one they had would not work with the flashes. He then told me that light meters are over rated and he and most professional don't even really use theirs. He told me that I'd have to spend $300+ and then it would just sit in a draw gathering dust.

This left me really confused since he had previously told me that it was a "have to have". So what's your opinion? Light meter, yes or no...and if yes, what brand do you use or want? How much should I expect to pay for a light meter?

Thanks so much for all your help!
Barbi

 

[Kelly Grannell]

I can't take studio pic without a flash meter. I use a Sekonic.

 

[PaulD]

I can see that a light meter would be essential if you were shooting with film. Since you wouldn't know if you got the right exposure until you had your film developed a light meter would be very useful.

But, if you're using digital you can review our image immediately. You can look at the histogram, make adjustments, and keep taking shots until you've got it exactly the way you like. I guess a light meter might help you achieve that result more quickly(?) but I don't know that I would call it essential.

If there's anyone out there who uses one with digital who has any opinions on this I'd be interested to hear them.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

I use it (with 20D and 5D). It's essential because I get paid by the number of shots. The faster I can do it, the more time I can spend with my family.

 

[PaulD]

The faster I can do it, the more time I can spend with my family.

Well I guess if you consider spending time with your family essential...

Just kidding! I think that's an excellent reason to work faster.