Help Please! - problems with DD and ex-husband!

[Wishing on a star]

I wanted to add just a bit about having DH adopt DD.

I was not really saying not to do this. I think that what I and the others are saying is, not AT THIS POINT.... I think we all agree that if the DD is worried about 'what if something happened', then it is definately something to consider!

Here are the reasons.... As mentioned, this would indeed be a two edged sword. Not that it should never be used... But, the time and place should be chosen carefully!!!!

First, at this point, the OP has been actively promoting a relationship between her DD and the father. I do not believe that such an abrupt turn would be wise, or emotionally healthy.

Second, the age of the DD... if she were a young child, then I would have no problem whatsoever. But, at this very critical point, she is 12 years old. She is old enough to realize that this is a decision on her part (to ditch her dad in favor of her step-father). But, I am not sure that she is old enough to handle the ultimate responsibility for making that decision right away. You know, handling the deeper emotional repercussions.... She is just coming to the point where she is beginning to feel hurt, and to want to write letters to her dad, etc...

I think that something like this should be handled step-by-step.... I think perhaps the OP should first do two things...

First, she should immediately stop trying to one-handedly carry the relationship.... She should simply step back, and see what happens. Give the relationship between the DD and the Dad some time to cool off... Let the DD have a little time to work thru this initial hurt and anger, and come to terms with the fact that her dad is simply NOT there for her.... To go from trying to support the relationship one minute, and then to permanently ending it the next, is like a huge whiplash.

Secondly, she should give her DD time to digest the whole thing... to sort through it, as maturely as possible at her age... and to be SURE that this is what she really wants. Right at this moment, during this emotional crisis, may not be the best time to take any direct actions.

Unfortunately, the bottom line is that if the father does not want to give up his parental rights, then the adoption would simply not be possible. Not without a possible court battle. So, it really is a tough call..... How do you know if the father would agree, or not... You don't until you ask. And, to ask is to risk some heavy repurcussions.

This is really a personal decision that only the OP and her DH and her DD can decide what, and when, is right.

 

[crz4mm2]

This is the opinion of a former daughter of a deadbeat dad.
My mother never said a bad word about him. He left before I was born and I didnt' even meet him until I was 21. We only found him because my older sister was insistant and managed to track him down. My mom remarried when I was in the 5th grade. I had a great step dad who I would have gladly had adopt me. In fact I begged my mother to let him. She would have, but my older sister didn't want to and she (my mother) didn't think one of us should and the other should not (don't ask me why....). I spent many years wondering what I had done to make my 'real' dad hate me so much to not ever want to see me even as an infant. Took me years and years to realize it was not me at all, but him.
My Mother tried for a long time to find him but couldn't. Remember this was over 40 years ago. and finally gave up. She did without child support etc. Never got a phone call, birthday gift, xmas card, nothing.....
Years later when he did come into my life he claimed he didn't come see us because our mother "wouldnt' let him".. Which was bull.
Anyway, I have no real advice. I guess she will feel it is partly her fault, no matter what you try and tell her differently. I would give up on trying to contact him- you know it doesn't do any good. Let it go. If she wants your DH to adopt her, GO FOR IT. IT will truly make her feel loved and wanted. My 'real' father is not the one who donated the sperm, but the man who loved me for years.....

Hugs to all of you.

Cathy

 

[Caradana]

I feel very similar to corona. In many ways, this could be my story. My father was the pillar of the town (boy from the Italian slum who went to MIT and became a doctor) - my parents divorced in '86 (I was 6), he had a breakdown in '90, and he's been in and out of bankruptcy, criminal charges, and jail ever since.

One of the smartest parenting moves my mother ever made was not letting us know how hard she pushed to have him as a figure in our lives. I'm sure it doesn't feel this way to your adult mind, but when your daughter knows that you push her father to participate in her life - and he doesn't reply - she views that as a direct rejection. If you are going to continue to push him to play a role, you need to stop telling her. Simply stop telling her about any of the overtures you're making. Don't subject her to repeated rejections.

Also, I have yet to hear of any story where a letter solved an intensely emotional problem. There's something about letters that depersonalizes negative feelings, and also, if your ex is as bad as you describe, he might actually get a power kick out of the control he clearly exerts over your daughter's emotions. Finally, there is no purer rejection than the father turning down the outpouring of a daughter's heart. If that had been me today, I'd be devastated.

Cut off mentions of him. If she mentions him, gently guide her toward the main idea that she's OK and loved, your family is OK and loved, there is enough money, and everything is going to be fine. She needs to hear that everything is stable.

Finally, is he paying child support? If he is - I wouldn't necessarily recommend this as a strategy, but you could consider it - without telling her, offer to reduce the support requirement if he visits once a month. If he doesn't live up to his part of the deal (if he reduces the checks but doesn't visit), sue him; it's an unenforceable deal, anyway. Don't tell her you're doing any of this. If you really, really want him to be a part of her life, there are ways to make it happen.

 

[mcnuss]

I haven't been able to read every post all the way through, so if this has been said already, I apologize. I think the best thing you can do now for your DD is to get the 2 of you into counseling. She needs someone neutral and detached from the situation to talk to, and you are too biased, even though you mean well. I too am the product of divorce, my mother's second husband adopted me at the age of 4 so it's very different from your situation. I have no recollection of bio-father and did not see him or his family (my choice) until I was 21.

I do agree that you should stop communicating with your ex. If he can't reach out, then to heck with him. It's his responsibility, not yours.

Finally, someone posted this (can't remember who):

Dad is supposed to pay for half of it, but his lawyer has informed him that that clause of our agreement is "unenforceable" so he's decided not to.

If the lawyer said that, s/he's an irresponsible jerk. More likely, your ex interpreted something the lawyer said so that the slant is in his favor and so you won't chase him. Only believe what your own lawyer tells you and no one else. If your ex agreed to it and it's in your decree, it's enforceable. Go after every penney you're owed. Don't let them cheat you or your kids.

 

[graygables]

I went through a situation when I divorced my ex, only he had molested my then 5yo DD (when she was 3). She quit calling him dad and referred to him by his first name. She, too, wrote a letter (my attorney witnessed it) and we did send it. It basically said, "I don't like you, leave me alone". He quit trying to call and the only thing I ever got was child support straight from the military every month. I had to contact him recently about legal stuff, but had to hunt him down, since I had no idea where he was stationed. He's asked for photos and I've told him no, but DDs are now 19 and 17.

I have to say that having him completely out of our lives made their lives so much easier. I lived with my parents to go back to school, so my Dad became their father figure until my DH took over the job. It was so nice that they never had to worry about broken promises or whose house this weekend. We could just continue our lives. I know that she doesn't want to hurt her dad, but he's the one with the problems (and the one who's been doing all the hurting). Men like that will NEVER see what they've missed and will continue to hurt her to get back at you forever if you let it continue. Now would be a good time for her (and you) to establish some boundaries. As soon as he crosses the line, he's done. He is an adult, you are an adult, she should not have to pretend to be one with all the hurt and worrying she's doing. I'm so sorry that you and your DD (and your DH) have been so hurt and I hope you are able to find peace and resolution!

 

[SleepyMom]

I am really sorry to hear about what you and your daughter are going through.

I have been through almost the same situation, only not as a daughter like many of the responses you have gotten, I am a Mother, just like you.

I keep typing out what I want to say and then realize it is still too painful to put out there, so I delete it. Mostly I guess what I need to say is be careful of people telling you that she will figure him out, because that is not always what happens.

Letting her talk to someone that is not involved is probably the best thing you can do for her right now, let her understand her own feelings on how her dad treats her. Then go from there. Good luck.

 

[Microcell]

I have a father who is not worth the time I am spending writing about him. I am 32 and his rejection still hurts. She is going to hurt over this, and keep trying to go back for more for a good long time before she gives up. I finally gave my dad the dear dad letter you speak of just a year ago or so. I still secretly hope he will come back and tell me he was wrong. He won't, my brain knows this, but my heart still wants it.


She probably could never be adopted by your Dh even though you would want her to. She would see it as a betryal and coming from her position myself, it would be admitting that she will never have a good relationship with her sperm dontaing father.

I have a suggestion for your DH so she can have a good relationship with a man, it might save her. What he can do is tell her that nothing would make him happier than adopting her, but he understands her dad is important to her, even if she is mad at him right now. The next line should really come from your DH and your DH alone. He has to tell her something to the effect of this, to help her self esteem and to help secure thier relationship:

"DD, I just want you to know that there is no other little girl in the world that I would have chosen. You are great! I understand you love your dad, even though you are mad at him so I respect that, and I will not adopt you, but I will always think of you as a daughter. I am so lucky to have you in my life."

As far as legalities, do you think your ex would allow guardianship to your DH in the event something happens to you? That is something I would look into so she can keep a positive relationship with a male in her life. If you push the adoption thing I think she would resent you for it. It is saying she gives up on her dad, which I won't even do in my 32nd year.

 

[pfishgirl]

wow, your post sounds like how my life was..

My hubby did adopt my son, you do know you need her father's aproval right? My ex owed me $30,000 in back child support. He signed the paper as a way to get out of paying.. Well guess what, he still had to pay, and still is paying and probably will be paying for a LONG time..

DS (15) use to want to see his "Father" every weekend, but grew tired of it very quickly. His father is/was an alcoholic and would sleep while DS watched 3 kids all day!!! he too is a smart kid, he saw more and more how his father was and went over there less and less. I tried to never say a bad thing in front of my DS about his father, but my son knew..

My x called DS once almost 2 months ago, to see if DS wanted to go over, DS explained he has broken leg, and the x has not called him a single time since then. Not to see how his leg is, not to see how HS is, nothing !!

I say good riddens to bad rubbish... My DS has his "Dad" now and me and that is all he needs. I do feel bad that DS doesn't get to see his half brother and half sisters, but I can't do anything about it...

Oh and the kicker...X-hubby lives 20 minutes away !!!!

Best Wishes !! pm me anytime to talk

 

[Microcell]

I forgot to share a pretty happy story of someone who happened to be adopted, but even if she was not, it would have ended well.

I met this girl who was 14 who lives next door with her older brother, mom, adopted father and little brother and sister (bio kids of the adopted dad). When I moved in next door three years ago, I could tell right away who were his bio kids and who were not. The relationship with the older kids was kind of strained, probably because of the teenage years and that the older kids bio dad was coming around sometimes.

The 14 year old was so sad about her bio dad not loving her and her adopted dad loving his bio kids more. I told her that my dad was not good, but that her adopted dad loved her so much, because he chose her. I pointed out to her that he could have chosen not to adopt her, but he did, and that was special. She is the kind to tell her parents everything, and I knew that, I think she told them what I said. I swear since that day, they all seem so solid together. She really needed to hear that she was special, and hearing it from a non invested third party really helped. A counsler would be a good idea, not everyone can live next to me!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Now would be a good time for her (and you) to establish some boundaries. As soon as he crosses the line, he's done. He is an adult, you are an adult, she should not have to pretend to be one with all the hurt and worrying she's doing. I'm so sorry that you and your DD (and your DH) have been so hurt and I hope you are able to find peace and resolution!

Well worth pointing out. Your dd is going to see things even clearer with each passing year. Helping her accept her reality is the best thing you can do for her.
I wish someone had done that with my dh.

Just so you know, dh's dad left him at 5. Saw him a few times then married a woman with 6 kids and moved across the country.
We still don't have much contact. It is like one of those long lost relative things.
For a long time he blamed the stepmom, redirected anger, of course.
As an adult he realized it was his dad all along that didn't want to see him.
He didn't calm that demon until his 20's.
If only he knew earlier...

 

[Kristi1357]

First of all, lots of

I don't have first-hand knowledge of this type of situation, but my sister is living through this twice over. Her and her DH have a yours, mine & ours family. They each have a daughter from their first marriages. They now have a baby girl together also.

Her daughter is 7 and lives through much of what your daughter does. She hardly sees her father. He only calls or comes around when he's trying to make a good impression & get money from his mother. I could go on about him: he stole all of his daughter's savings account, stole from all my family members (incl. me, ) at various times, cheated on my sister, etc. He has never been bad to my neice in person - he treats her well WHEN he sees her. He also does not pay a dime of child support. I think my sister should take more action in that department (God knows they need the money), but she won't do it.

Her step-daughter is 8 and lives with them half the week. Well, she is suppossed to only be there half the week, but her mother tries to get out of having her as much as she can. Always calling with an excuse: has to work, car broke down and can't come get her, she's sick (uses this ALL the time), etc. This "mother" even blew off her own daughter on Mother's Day!!! When her mother does have her, that girl is always kept home from school "sick" - mom does not want to get out of bed and drive her there! Again, there's alot more, but suffice it to say that she can't be bothered with her daughter either. This mom of the year has also done things like call her daughter "ugly" to her face!

Both girls are in counseling now and I think it is helping them a great deal to hear from an outside party that their respective parents are not perfect. No matter what they do - it won't make their parent change.

I think you've had alot of good advice here. I also beleive in supporting your daughter in which ever way she wants to handle this. She is old enough to know the truth about this "donor." Her real Daddy already lives with her!

Kristi

 

[poohandwendy]

Worried,

I am not divorced, but I am the child of a bitter divorce where my father had no interest in contacting me. The only advice I would give you is to ALWAYS be positive and supportive of their relationship (even if it is horrible). Try to find a nice thing to say, even when she hates him and he is clearly a jerk. Your child knows how she feels, she is old enough to determine what he means to her and what kind of person he is. Do not get involved in trying to mend or help their relationship...you really can't help...you can only be supportive and positive.

I would not recommend talk of adoption (by your DH). I just do not think that would be productive. It won't heal her pain...it would only cause more confusion. Her stepfather's love needs no legal document to be a solid influence on her. His love and consistency is enough. I think adoption would just complicate things more emotionally, for your daughter. If she wants to disown him in her heart...she can do that on her own.

Other than that, just stay in the background and be the great mom you sound like you are. Your child will always thank you for risng above and being her cheerleader. No matter what her father does...you are a constant for her. That is all she needs.

Good luck to you and your family and {{{HUGS}}}. Divorce is tough...especially when one parent is so lacking.

 

[Worried]

I just wanted to thank you all for your kind words and great advice. (Do not worry, I have not taken any offense to anything said here!)

I will not talk badly about her father but Iwill continue to support my dd and listen to her as she needs to vent. She does not know all the details of why I divorced him nor does she ever need to know.

I am not actively not pursuing adoption for many of reasons listed in this thread - but it is an option if she ever wants to have it in the future. I liked many of the things said here and will certainly think about them all. I am just thankful that she has the love of my dh, my family, dh's family - they have accepted her as their own and are wonderful - and certainly she has my love. I know love does not fix things - but it sure pads the pain.

She is talking with a counselor weekly now. I think it is important she receives any help she needs and maybe someday will comprehend it is not her fault that her dad is like this.

I am so sorry to see so much pain reflected here as well. It is so sad that so many of you have gone through a similar thing with your own dad or ex-husbands.

Hugs to all you strong women and your children!!

 

[poohandwendy]

I know love does not fix things - but it sure pads the pain.

Yes, it sure does. She will be fine. Trust in that. As cliche as it seems, this will make her a stronger person. It's certainly not the way you want her to gain strength...but it will have a positive affect on her. It's easy to see why it is so bad, just remember he is teaching her what she doesn't want in a man. Your DH is teaching her what is valuable in a man.

ETA...yes, she absolutely will know that it wasn't her fault. It will take time for her to realize it, but she will heal from this. I promise.

 

[aprincessmom]

What would you do if you were in my shoes?

We wear similar shoes. DD is now 9 and her dad, who lives close by (less than a mile away) and has liberal visitation, is fairly uninterested in her and her life. We worked out in the divorce decree that DD would have the right to choose whether to continue visitation and would have to re-visit with the court to confirm her choice (mostly to make sure that I wasn't forcing her to do it).

Recently, DD has expressed that desire. She doesn't like going to see him only to be ignored. He's not interested particularly in her, just in the appearance of being a "good dad" and she's picked up on that. As she notes, he only likes her when there's other people around. And as much as I dislike him for what he does to her, I also know that she'll regret a decision made in anger. So I told her she had to talk to him about it, tell him her feelings and tell him because of his actions she was going to petition the court to end visitation. I told her I'd go with her if she wanted, I'd arrange for a family counseling session where they could discuss it if she wanted, or she could do it on her own. She was hesitant and asked why I was "forcing" her to be with her dad. And I told her truthfully that I don't always agree with what he does but he is her father and is the only father she'll ever have and I don't want her to regret a decision made in haste because relationship bridges are easier to repair than re-build.

So she decided to talk to him with me. We picked a neutral location and she laid out (with help from me) the points she wanted to talk about (how he made her feel, what she expects vs. what she gets from him, and ways to make things better if he wants to). We were there for about 3 hours. I was the mediator, we set some ground rules for behavior and they talked. She got to speak her mind, he got to respond to some of her criticisms, got to apologize for some things he's done and they decided at the end of the discussion that they didn't really want to not see each other so they re-arranged what they would do, set some expectations and also made the rule that if either of them felt it wasn't working or someone didn't follow-through without a good reason (they even listed their "good reasons") then visitation was done. And then they wrote up a "contract" and signed it.

It has been working great for this last month -- I haven't had to force her to go to her dad's, he hasn't been angry/upset with the visit, they both know what they expect from each other and the air is clear. Will it last? Given my ex's track record, I don't think it will. But there's a plan, there's some real expectations set and some real end results already pre-determined. Will it hurt her when he fails? Sure. But she feels like she's in control -- she told him how she felt, what she wanted and has an out for when he doesn't come through.

I don't know if that will work for your DD but maybe allowing her to have some control in the situation, to feel like less of a victim, may help her ease the pain a bit.

Good luck to the both of you.

 

[poohandwendy]

Wow, aprincessmom...YOU GO GIRL! You are an inspiration. That is so awesome. No matter how it turns out, you are doing all that you can do and your DD will thank you for it. You are part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. (and it is not easy, I am sure) That is so wonderful. Kudos to you mom!