Help me keep this in perspective

[horseshowmom]

I also agree w/ Hannathy.
It's astonishing to me that some people actually don't see a difference
OP...I'm not referring to you, I mean those who think calling the police is an appropriate response.

Same here...

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

I never suggested it was "okay" but seriously I think your reaction is beyond absurd. Calling the authorities over this IMO is a HUGE overreaction and a complete waste of the police departments resources.

It's his word against an adult's word. I'm only reading what the OP wrote and she's upset.

In the end, the adult is supposed to set the example.

My kids have gone to camp (not volunteer camp - one we pay dearly for) for years. They have gone on extreme wilderness trips, whitewater, etc. and NEVER has any staffman, guide, anyone ever had to "whack" someone to get them back on a trail.

If it was serious enough for my child to mention to me, it was serious enough.

If it had been meant as a joke or a way to get someone "back on the trail" my child would have explained it to me like that.

My children's (and other children's) well-being is worthy of the police department's resources. If it's a false alarm, so be it. But, if the scouts or whomever is sending out an adult who may be a loose cannon or can't control her group in an appropriate manner, then steps should be taken to either stop her or punish her if necessary.

And, if a child can't behave, his parents should, at their expense, have to come and get their child. My children's camp have even gone so far as to not allow a particular camper to go along on the trips if they can't follow the rules and behave in a safe and appropriate manner. They don't need to smack them around (on the tush or anywhere else) to get these kids to cooperate.

I am amazed that there are parents here that think it's okay for other adults to touch their kids in this manner.

I have to get back to work - I came on here to ask a question and this thread has me all side-tracked now, I forgot why I came here...

 

[Tybug]

It's his word against an adult's word. I'm only reading what the OP wrote and she's upset.

In the end, the adult is supposed to set the example.

My kids have gone to camp (not volunteer camp - one we pay dearly for) for years. They have gone on extreme wilderness trips, whitewater, etc. and NEVER has any staffman, guide, anyone ever had to "whack" someone to get them back on a trail.

If it was serious enough for my child to mention to me, it was serious enough.

If it had been meant as a joke or a way to get someone "back on the trail" my child would have explained it to me like that.

My children's (and other children's) well-being is worthy of the police department's resources. If it's a false alarm, so be it. But, if the scouts or whomever is sending out an adult who may be a loose cannon or can't control her group in an appropriate manner, then steps should be taken to either stop her or punish her if necessary.

And, if a child can't behave, his parents should, at their expense, have to come and get their child. My children's camp have even gone so far as to not allow a particular camper to go along on the trips if they can't follow the rules and behave in a safe and appropriate manner. They don't need to smack them around (on the tush or anywhere else) to get these kids to cooperate.

I am amazed that there are parents here that think it's okay for other adults to touch their kids in this manner.

I have to get back to work - I came on here to ask a question and this thread has me all side-tracked now, I forgot why I came here...

It's not like it was a punishment sort of thing. It did not leave red marks or bruises. It was not abusive in any manner. Of course we don't have even half the details nor will we as the other adult will not be coming here to give her side of the story.

But to respond to the highlighted line above:
I was brought up where if you got into trouble at school you went to the principals office and received a spanking. Not a swat... a true spanking. I clearly recall a music teacher popping me over the head with a drum stick because I wouldn't stop talking after being asked more than once. I remember not wanting a certain teacher for 4th grade because he had a paddle in his room and you didn't have to go to the principal's office for the spanking. Do I believe in spankings? As a parent I have no problem issuing them to my children(in the past of course as they are now 19 and 15) if I felt they were necessary. Do I want other adults to give them to my children? No. But I would have no problem with what has happened here. This was not a spanking.

So the OP doesn't want the other leader to give a shoo-ing swat with a book to her child? Would she also not want the other leader to hold that child's hand while a big splinter was being removed from his foot? How about an arm around his shoulders if another child has upset him? How about if he broke a bone and was hysterical and needed comfort? How about if he was getting ready to step on a poisonious snake and the leader grabbed the child to push him out of the way and it did leave a mark?

It's over reaction by parents that has gotten our society into the mess that it's in. It doesn't matter what little Johnny does... good or bad, don't touch my child!

I remember my daughter wanting to give her male 3rd grade teacher a hug on the last day of school and he came to find me first to be sure it was okay(I was in the room already). I thought right then and there what a sad state our society was in! Even sadder that it will never change...

 

[Christopher Robin]

OP, did you get the feedback you wanted? Hope you get this worked out. Please (seriously) let us know what you decide.

(Edited to delete my snarky reply the the over-reactors)

 

[disneymom3]

I remember my daughter wanting to give her male 3rd grade teacher a hug on the last day of school and he came to find me first to be sure it was okay(I was in the room already). I thought right then and there what a sad state our society was in! Even sadder that it will never change...

This is somewhat OT but I used to run a daycare center for infants and toddlers. I actually had in my contract that the staff WOULD kiss, hold and hug the children. If parents were not okay with this, they needed to find a different child care arrangement. A friend of mine who directed another center had the licensing dept come in because parents had reported inappropriate touching of a child. Want to know what had happened? Another child was going to have surgery the next day and the teacher kissed him goodbye and said, "I love you sweetie. Be brave." That was IT!

As for the OP, I think you handled it fine. You let the other leader know this was not something you were comfortable with and referred them to the guidelines. Personally, I would let it rest there.

 

[NMAmy]

Leader basically spanked my kid. Kid says it was with a hand, moderately hard (but likely not painful), leader said it was with a book, gentle.

This is the part that bothers me most. If it were my child and she told me someone hit her with their hand, then I would believe her. It is inappropriate to hit someone and it is inappropriate for an adult to touch a child's behind. And, yeah, I'd be upset about it, as well. I did not spank my child and I would have a fit if someone else took it upon themselves to discipline my child that way. I've been a girl scout leader and, while some of those girls drove me to drink (AFTER the meetings and campouts), I would never smack, swat, or strike one, anymore than I would my own child. How could someone stress that one child should not hit another and then hit a child themselves?

A lot of posters seem to automatically believe an adult over a child. If the child has no history of stretching the truth (and we have no reason to believe he does), then why jump to the defense of a scout leader that is also unknown?

 

[jodifla]

I'm in the it's no big deal camp. My goodness he is 11! probably as big as the leader and she swatted him on the behind with a book to get going, yes I can see where that would do real physical harm! If I was 11 and wasn't listening I would have been to embarrassed to tell my Mom 'cause she would have been yelling at me for not listening and telling me I deserved worse. And I would do the same with my kids. In fact at the next meeting they would be apologizing to her.

To all the oh my Goodness call, the authorities it is a big deal. Well I hope your kids don't mind not doing a thing the rest of their childhood-no scouts, no church groups, 4H you name it unless you plan on doing every activity yourself because with your "rules" no adult in their right mind would come 6 feet from your kids. I guess I better quit leading VBS or Scouts because heaven forbid I have swatted kids with their handbooks or my clip board or a piece of fun foam to get their attention or to get them moving most kids laugh and the parents say good for you. First they took away kids playgrounds, then the games,now an adult can't even touch another child, I'm glad I'm grown and my kids are getting older. Childhood is no fun anymore.

ITA! It's ridiculous how some parents over react these days. No wonder people aren't volunteering for things like scouts anymore...other parents are determined to make everything a CRIME!

Guess some parents would be surprised to see corporal punishment is still on the books in more than 20 states in the U.S.

OP, I'd let it go. Some day, it may be some child who is complaining about some innocent thing you did. Do you want the parents making a mountain out of a molehill?

 

[Luv'sTink]

No one, and I mean no one, hits my child. Not me, not my husband, no one.

I would have called the police and pressed charges.

No second chances. No explanations.

I don't care what the situation was. I don't care what his excuse is.

End of story.

Want to add, since I posted just after reading the OP.

My children spend every summer at camp (my dd for 4 weeks, my ds for 8 weeks). They go hiking, canoeing, leaving their actual camp for 4-7 days at a time.

None of these kids get a "whack" to move it along. Effective leadership doesn't require such behavior, as is evidenced by the OP who doesn't need to resort to such tactics.

I have never, ever hit my children - not jokingly, not as punishment, not for any reason. I would be furious. And, let's take it a step further - what if the camper spanked/slapped another camper or the leader? Would that behavior be condoned? I think not.

So you condone people just walking around smacking each other to get them moving along? I'll remember that next time I'm in Disney World - first slow moving moron in front of me I'll give a "friendly" smack in the ***.

It is absolutely innappropriate, inexcusable, illegal behavior and not one any leader should be passing along to children of any age.

My children don't go around hitting other people to make their point and I don't expect them to be hit either. In fact, if a child did this to another child in school (even well meaning) they'd end up suspended. Please, I'm not debating this - I would take this as far as it could go. No one touches my children and gets away with it. End of story.

It's his word against an adult's word. I'm only reading what the OP wrote and she's upset.

In the end, the adult is supposed to set the example.

My kids have gone to camp (not volunteer camp - one we pay dearly for) for years. They have gone on extreme wilderness trips, whitewater, etc. and NEVER has any staffman, guide, anyone ever had to "whack" someone to get them back on a trail.

If it was serious enough for my child to mention to me, it was serious enough.

If it had been meant as a joke or a way to get someone "back on the trail" my child would have explained it to me like that.

My children's (and other children's) well-being is worthy of the police department's resources. If it's a false alarm, so be it. But, if the scouts or whomever is sending out an adult who may be a loose cannon or can't control her group in an appropriate manner, then steps should be taken to either stop her or punish her if necessary.

And, if a child can't behave, his parents should, at their expense, have to come and get their child. My children's camp have even gone so far as to not allow a particular camper to go along on the trips if they can't follow the rules and behave in a safe and appropriate manner. They don't need to smack them around (on the tush or anywhere else) to get these kids to cooperate.

I am amazed that there are parents here that think it's okay for other adults to touch their kids in this manner.

I have to get back to work - I came on here to ask a question and this thread has me all side-tracked now, I forgot why I came here...

Really?

 

[chobie]

I don't spank my kids or anybody else's, however, I would not have made an issue out of it if it was my kid. I personally don't think its a big deal.

 

[ukwildcat]

Well, I think from reading most of the responses, that I am in the minority here. I am firmly against spaking, hitting, etc. when disciplining children. I believe it does nothing but teach children that force is an acceptable form of discipline. Now, I may be biased, I was abused physically by my father when I was younger. Just an example: my dad had just shoveled the driveway, brother and I had a snowball fight and one of the snowballs landed on the driveway. My dad picked me up, slammed me against the side of the house, and threw me down on the driveway. I was knocked out. Broken clavicle. This was typical of my father, not an isolated incident. Went on for years. So, you can see where my dissent for violence comes from. Anyway...

If someone had done anything to my children, the police would be involved. End of story. That's how I feel.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Being a trained scout leader, I know this is WAY out of line (spanking - not to mention ANY contact with an adolescent boy's butt!)

As a leader you probably know that it is strict BSA policy that it is never allowed to physically contact a child like that in any way.

I don't know about your council leadership. But, around here they take this very seriously.

If reported to the district, this person should be barred from any leadership for contact with boys associated with BSA.

I would report the incident in a heartbeat.

 

[JR6ooo4]

If you want us to help you keep it in perspective you have to share the details.

Was it a tap to get moving or a swat from anger?
Was this a female or a male that swatted the behind?
Was your son arguing or refusing to do something?

Take that into account first.

No to taking anything into account! Can't you make a decision without adding variables?

An adult spanked a kid that was not their own. It does not matter what the child did, how hard was the spanking, etc...

It is not a question of whether the child deserved it.

I read the question to be, "should a cub scout leader intitiate physical contact for the purpose of punishment?"

No, not even to their own kids, while acting on the national organizations behalf!

Mikeeee

 

[Mkrop]

[/COLOR]

It is usually the kids of these "no spank parents" that are the most trouble and selfishly take up so much of the groups time with their misbehaviour.

In all my years of volunteerring, I find this to be an inacuarate statement!

 

[ticktock]

In all my years of volunteerring, I find this to be an inacuarate statement!

Well my DS is 13 and I've been room mother, scout assistant, the art lady for 3 schools etc. and this is my opinion based on about 9 years of dealing with other peoples kids. Of course most of the kids I've dealt with have either been in my DS's advanced/gifted classes or the severely disadvantaged kids so maybe "average" kids are different? I doubt it.

 

[Becky2005]

ITA! It's ridiculous how some parents over react these days. No wonder people aren't volunteering for things like scouts anymore...other parents are determined to make everything a CRIME!

That's what I was thinking when reading this thread. It's exactly why I hate to volunteer for anything for my kids -- I'm afraid of any other kid's parent. You could so easily do something innocent and it will get yourself in trouble no matter what. I don't want the liabilitly since it's basically "guilty until proven innocent" most of the time for anything.

Not being there, I don't know the entire story so can't really comment on the situation. It sounds like it was an innocent, we need to move along type of thing. I also have been known to goof off with my kids though and sometimes it ends up with small smacks to each other for something (similar to the "could of had a V-8" type of smacks).

 

[blanq]

But maybe it is relevant. She told me they were late everywhere they went, warned the kids "countless" times to keep walking and stay on the path. My kid ran off the path to get a stick.

This sounds like it falls under the "get moving" category rather than a spanking, IMHO. If my kid ran off the path to get a stick after countless reminder to stay on the path, I would have had no problems with his leader giving him a gentle slap with a book. But, that's just me.

 

[Mkrop]

Well my DS is 13 and I've been room mother, scout assistant, the art lady for 3 schools etc. and this is my opinion based on about 9 years of dealing with other peoples kids. Of course most of the kids I've dealt with have either been in my DS's advanced/gifted classes or the severely disadvantaged kids so maybe "average" kids are different? I doubt it.

That's unfortunate. How do you know these problem children were not spanked?

I too have been room mom, library mom, gone on numerous field trips, helped with baseball teams etc I have not been able to tell by looking at a child or their behavior as to if they have been spanked or not.

I know friends who spank and friends who dont, both groups have kids who are well behaved and kids who are terrors.

My own son who has never been spanked has always received high marks in behavior and respect from his teachers and I was just told by his camp counselors, that he was a very well behaved, respectful, child who was a joy to have all summer.

I dont think you should paint all children with the same brush JMHO.

 

[jodifla]

As the incident is described though, it doesn't qualify as a spanking. It was a "move along" swat.

I wonder if people call the cops everytime someone slaps them on the back and says "atta boy."

People's inability to discern a true spanking from a swat from an all-out beating is really pretty astonishing.

 

[ckay87]

It's amazing how split down the middle this is.

Here's what else I'm thinking. I know some of you are thinking "oh for crying out loud, he's 11, he can handle it." But my thinking is that because he's 11, it is that much more inappropriate... and yucky His armpits are getting stinky, he's learning about girls/guys, etc. He's teetering on young adulthood here.

As an adult, how does it feel when a stranger comes in contact with your rear end? Angrily? Playfully? Teasingly?

 

[C.Ann]

Inappropriate in my opinion..