Help! I need a quick answer. RE: Seller transferring points during sale.

[Brian Noble]

I think part of my hesitation is the broker (Redweek) isn’t really used much by people on these boards so I’m a being extra cautious.

Redweek isn't really a broker, so much as a classified advertising venue. They do some broker-ish things, but not really.

If you choose a title company/transfer agent that is experienced in DVC transactions, you should be more or less fine.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Redweek isn't really a broker, so much as a classified advertising venue. They do some broker-ish things, but not really.

If you choose a title company/transfer agent that is experienced in DVC transactions, you should be more or less fine.

It was listing where a Redweek broker handles it and earns a commission. Honestly may have been easier if I could just deal with the seller directly

 

[disneylandtour]

Fidelity wont withhold funds. Even though it pains me to do so I requested to switch to TRCS. We will see if they are willing.

I once got a check on a Fidelity/Mason deal for missing points. It was exactly one point. But I did get a check overnighted for $25. The strange thing--I saw the point was missing when it loaded and thought, Whatever, not worth hassling it, as it was on a OKW Extended that I got, loaded, for $80pp and as I was sure the hassle would've cost me way more than $25 of my time. Then there was a check via DHL for the missing one banked point.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I once got a check on a Fidelity/Mason deal for missing points. It was exactly one point. But I did get a check overnighted for $25. The strange thing--I saw the point was missing when it loaded and thought, Whatever, not worth hassling it, as it was on a OKW Extended that I got, loaded, for $80pp and as I was sure the hassle would've cost me way more than $25 of my time. Then there was a check via DHL for the missing one banked point.

That is pretty great service.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I once got a check on a Fidelity/Mason deal for missing points. It was exactly one point. But I did get a check overnighted for $25. The strange thing--I saw the point was missing when it loaded and thought, Whatever, not worth hassling it, as it was on a OKW Extended that I got, loaded, for $80pp and as I was sure the hassle would've cost me way more than $25 of my time. Then there was a check via DHL for the missing one banked point.

I also just realized I typed Fidelity but meant to say First American.

 

[geargrinder]

You can’t transfer banked points to another owner.

Never said banked points. You can transfer current and next years points prior to a sale. It's especially a good tactic if you think the contract may be taken in ROFR.

 

[Sandisw]

Never said banked points. You can transfer current and next years points prior to a sale. It's especially a good tactic if you think the contract may be taken in ROFR.

The person was talking about the banked points so I thought so were you.

But, there is no way a seller is going to transfer points to a buyer prior to the contract being closed and they have been paid.

Again, there is always a risk a seller uses points before you get the contract..this isn’t something new…so, I think it’s a non issue.

 

[geargrinder]

The person was talking about the banked points so I thought so were you.

But, there is no way a seller is going to transfer points to a buyer prior to the contract being closed and they have been paid.

Again, there is always a risk a seller uses points before you get the contract..this isn’t something new…so, I think it’s a non issue.

Sure they will if it's part of the contract agreement. Once the contract is signed, the seller won't care, they get paid either way. Only costs them the time for the phone call.

Transferring the points to the buyer eliminates the risk. At that point, it's a non-issue.

 

[VGCgroupie]

The person was talking about the banked points so I thought so were you.

But, there is no way a seller is going to transfer points to a buyer prior to the contract being closed and they have been paid.

Again, there is always a risk a seller uses points before you get the contract..this isn’t something new…so, I think it’s a non issue.

I know it’s not new. But not every contract is written the same to have a protection for a buyer which led me to my post.

 

[Sandisw]

Sure they will if it's part of the contract agreement. Once the contract is signed, the seller won't care, they get paid either way. Only costs them the time for the phone call.

Transferring the points to the buyer eliminates the risk. At that point, it's a non-issue.

Not true…if the buyer backs out after the points are transferred, the seller would be out of luck because they can’t get them back. DVC won’t get involved and while the buyer loses the deposit, seller now has a contract to sell that is much less valuable.

I have sold several and there is absolutely no way I would transfer points from a contract I was selling to a potential buyer.

Not sure you’d ever find an owner willing to do that without the buyer paying them for the transfer as a separate transaction and then doing the sale.

Remember, pay for a transfer can not be put into the contract because it is against the contract to take payment for points.

 

[Sandisw]

I know it’s not new. But not every contract is written the same to have a protection for a buyer which led me to my post.

I honestly had only one contract that listed an amount…the rest had the language you mention…just that seller is responsible for missing points.

Even with that. I don’t think there are many title companies that hold payment back until the transfer happens so again, it’s always going to be a small risk with resale.

 

[atthebeachclub]

How often do we hear about missing points post-estoppel? Almost never. I mean, it does happen, but it is very very rare. I suppose you could also ask to have a term included in the contract, though I suspect you may have tried that already?

So, yes, there are points at risk, but I personally would assess the risk as "quite low".

This; also we hear about “bonus” points that weren’t mentioned more than missing points.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Why are you nervous? Did the seller or agent give you reason to pause that this might happen? The contract should state the points that are available - it will not say sellers can't transfer points beause if it states the available points then that is what you should be getting. example Jane Doe purchased 100 points at CCV in march use year. there are 25 points for march 2024, 100 for 2025 and 100 for 2026. if the contract has the availabe points then that is what you should be getting.

 

[VGCgroupie]

T

Not true…if the buyer backs out after the points are transferred, the seller would be out of luck because they can’t get them back. DVC won’t get involved and while the buyer loses the deposit, seller now has a contract to sell that is much less valuable.

I have sold several and there is absolutely no way I would transfer points from a contract I was selling to a potential buyer.

Not sure you’d ever find an owner willing to do that without the buyer paying them for the transfer as a separate transaction and then doing the sale.

Remember, pay for a transfer can not be put into the contract because it is against the contract to take payment for points.

They were saying transfer points after final funds have been sent and contract closes, so at that point a buyer cannot back out.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Why are you nervous? Did the seller or agent give you reason to pause that this might happen? The contract should state the points that are available - it will not say sellers can't transfer points beause if it states the available points then that is what you should be getting. example Jane Doe purchased 100 points at CCV in march use year. there are 25 points for march 2024, 100 for 2025 and 100 for 2026. if the contract has the availabe points then that is what you should be getting.

It’s not a widely used broker, my previous 4 resale purchases have all had specific missing point clause this one does not. And I now know that sellers have full access to points for 3 weeks when the buyer technically owns the contract, that should make more people nervous, and I think that’s likely why some brokers have a missing point clause.

 

[VGCgroupie]

This; also we hear about “bonus” points that weren’t mentioned more than missing points.

I’ve seen just as many missing point posts as bonus point posts. The thing is they all had a broker with a clause and they got paid or got the points.

 

[Sandisw]

T

They were saying transfer points after final funds have been sent and contract closes, so at that point a buyer cannot back out.

But if the seller didn’t use the points by then, do you really think they would after getting paid?

I guess I am not seeing how that protects a buyer anymore than what a current contract has?

It still would require the seller to do something extra and not sure why they would bother when they have been paid, and the points are still there, and they know the buyer gets them when the contract gets transferred out.

I mean, if the seller doesn’t transfer early doesn’t the buyer still get them like normal?

Plus you said the contract said the seller is responsible for missing points, right?

What am I missing?

 

[VGCgroupie]

But if the seller didn’t use the points by then, do you really think they would after getting paid?

I guess I am not seeing how that protects a buyer anymore than what a current contract has?

It still would require the seller to do something extra and not sure why they would bother when they have been paid, and the points are still there, and they know the buyer gets them when the contract gets transferred out.

I mean, if the seller doesn’t transfer early doesn’t the buyer still get them like normal?

Plus you said the contract said the seller is responsible for missing points, right?

What am I missing?

Like I said I’m not worried about using them to stay more about transferring. I came here just to ask some questions and now it seems im the bad guy for wanting to protect myself.

Closing docs signed, funds wired, contract closes, seller transfers points, seller receives funds. All the title companies I have worked with have the seller verify points once again at closing so it’s the same amount of steps.

I’m not sure why it’s so wrong to want some sort of protection for buyers who are spending thousands of dollars. Why am I being villified for that?

Previous poster was just spit balling ideas of how things could be made safer for buyers, evidently ideas are stupid and we shouldn’t share them.

 

[Sandisw]

Like I said I’m not worried about using them to stay more about transferring. I came here just to ask some questions and now it seems im the bad guy for wanting to protect myself.

Closing docs signed, funds wired, contract closes, seller transfers points, seller receives funds. All the title companies I have worked with have the seller verify points once again at closing so it’s the same amount of steps.

I’m not sure why it’s so wrong to want some sort of protection for buyers who are spending thousands of dollars. Why am I being villified for that?

Previous poster was just spit balling ideas of how things could be made safer for buyers, evidently ideas are stupid and we shouldn’t share them.

I don’t think it’s that. I think that we are pointing out that there is nothing that 100% guarantees that a seller won’t transfer points out after closing and that exists no matter what the contract says.

Even the title companies who have sellers verify the points, it’s done once The contract passes ROFR and not at closing. I know this because I have sold about 8 contracts?

So, I think some of us are confused since you have said the contract includes the clause about sellers being responsible…but the reality is that you can’t completely protect yourself if you end up with a dishonest seller.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I don’t think it’s that. I think that we are pointing out that there is nothing that 100% guarantees that a seller won’t transfer points out after closing and that exists no matter what the contract says.

Even the title companies who have sellers verify the points, it’s done once The contract passes ROFR and not at closing. I know this because I have sold about 8 contracts?

So, I think some of us are confused since you have said the contract includes the clause about sellers being responsible…but the reality is that you can’t completely protect yourself if you end up with a dishonest seller.

It says seller is responsible, my previous purchases said broker is responsible that is the difference.